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stc44

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Jun 3, 2016
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I performed a simple test using maxed TT finder
step 1: Find a claim
step 2: let it expire
step 3: triple drop around 1m of the position of expired claim
Result: NRF
Question: can finders miss a claim while it still there?
 
Who said it's still there? You claimed it, you let it go, the opportunity is gone. While the certain amount of resources is there in the pool, they aren't waiting for you in the ground, especially at specific spots. The spots only define what exactly you might get if the moment is right.

It's like... here is this river that is known to have a few types of fish. You use a net, catch a trout of a certain size and let it go. You use the net again but you can't expect to grab the same trout again even though it's still in the river, although you might catch a different trout, or some perch, or nothing.
 
The claim does not exist until you drop a probe. Then the loot calculation determines what if anything you have found and the amount.
 
Well forgive me for smiling. Why the test?

Wasn't that how certain miners got towers, and manipulated the system with different amps to cheat the system? Especially on FOMA

So they use low level amp don't collect their claims and let them expire, then when they calculate they're due... use L13 amps

Not to mention getting amp drops for free using almost dead L13 amps they collected to exploit it further.

The systems dynamic right, all these profiteers did it by fair play and by the rules right?

Then people wonder why MA 'changed' the mining system to stop exploits.

Yes we all know about this sh*t even though most pretend they don't. I don't want nothing to do with all that "back door" cr*p, I'm not getting my account locked for deliberately trying to exploit the system.

Rick
 
The progressive jackpot is still growing, but since you didn't hit the cash out button on the slot machine when you got the 777 to line up and just hit bet again instead the slot machine is now turning again... if you win or lose the next bet isn't dependent on if you claimed on the last one...
 
krazykat said:
The claim does not exist until you drop a probe. Then the loot calculation determines what if anything you have found and the amount.
Click to expand...

If it was that simple, you could stand in one spot and drop for hours and receive normal returns.

Anyone care to test that? :cool:
 
ZPF said:
If it was that simple, you could stand in one spot and drop for hours and receive normal returns.

Anyone care to test that? :cool:
Click to expand...

Someone did that and lost a lot of money.
 
Let me ask a rhetorical question.

If you kill a mob and don't loot it, what happens after 2 (or whatever the number was) minutes? Does the corpse get up and merrily prance away?
 
Haruto Rat said:
Let me ask a rhetorical question.

If you kill a mob and don't loot it, what happens after 2 (or whatever the number was) minutes? Does the corpse get up and merrily prance away?
Click to expand...

Sometimes I hear this ridiculous "movement calculation" theory floating around. People actually think Mindark tracks how much you move between drops and somehow integrates this into their sophisticated claim generation algorithm :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
ZPF said:
Sometimes I hear this ridiculous "movement calculation" theory floating around. People actually think Mindark tracks how much you move between drops and somehow integrates this into their sophisticated claim generation algorithm :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

Smiles...its true :D
 
ZPF said:
Sometimes I hear this ridiculous "movement calculation" theory floating around. People actually think Mindark tracks how much you move between drops and somehow integrates this into their sophisticated claim generation algorithm :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

well could be done with a simple variable on dropped spot radius with time stamp. when u drop a bomb it checks the time stamp first and if it doesnt exceed a certain amount of time you get a definite NRF
 
ZPF said:
Sometimes I hear this ridiculous "movement calculation" theory floating around. People actually think Mindark tracks how much you move between drops and somehow integrates this into their sophisticated claim generation algorithm :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

There are lots of different theories especially surrounding mining, but MA changes mining over time to keep us on our toes and so we have to adapt to a new way. So a theory might be true a couple of years back, but does not mean it works now.

Now to answer the OP your claim is only valid until it expires, but that don't mean you will not find another claim in the same radius while your claim is there or after, but it will be a different claim. We can't tell if a finder can miss a claim if we do not know its there ourselves
.
 
Tested, time and time again.

People never believe.

Anyways.

Before the mining update, 2007? ish. Claims were in the ground. Post this update they are generated on bomb drop.

An area is blacklisted after drop for a set amount of time. If you drop before this, you will NEVER find a claim, irrelevant of how many you drop.

Whether someone else finds a claim, is still up for debate ish.

Good discussion.....(Still amazes me how people are incapable of searching this forum)

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-after-nrf-in-same-spot&highlight=mining+test

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?178841-Testing-ores-refresh-rate-in-mining

Rgds

Ace
 
ZPF said:
Sometimes I hear this ridiculous "movement calculation" theory floating around. People actually think Mindark tracks how much you move between drops and somehow integrates this into their sophisticated claim generation algorithm :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

I'm afraid you just opened a can of theories. :laugh:

Well... according to some slot machine enthusiasts, Everyone Knows(tm) that slot machines can measure electrical resistance and other parameters of your skin so that they Know(tm) when you start sweating and can be robbed more efficiently. This is why true addicts bring their own gloves (never mind casino gloves, where such thing still exists, are normally made of latex or smth like that).

Gambling can safely be kept simple, the gamblers will invent the complexity themselves.
 
Didn't John do one of his insane tests, on mining refresh as well?

Rgds

Ace
 
Not true.... I've stood in the same spot with 3 bombs and have received 3 claims. Doesn't happen very ofton but LBMT is a big helper to know when to do it
 
golddude said:
Not true.... I've stood in the same spot with 3 bombs and have received 3 claims. Doesn't happen very ofton but LBMT is a big helper to know when to do it
Click to expand...

Yes you can do that, I've done it myself. The thing is, the search area, radius and depth, will only be "searched" up to the limit of the claim/s distance from the drop point and depth. This is the case for both matter. enmatter, and, (on Ark) treasure.
 
golddude said:
Not true.... I've stood in the same spot with 3 bombs and have received 3 claims. Doesn't happen very ofton but LBMT is a big helper to know when to do it
Click to expand...

It happens. I managed to get 2-3 claims in the same radius from time to time! First claim is close to the center (me) second claim a bit farther and third more away. Yes, LBML helps me too, if the claim is very close I always drop another in the same spot, until I reach or go very close to finder range. (drops are only for one kind ofc not doubles!)
But there are different claims mineral or enmatter and you can't duplicate this thing if you drop again in the same spot. OP question is about the s.a.m.e claim almost right away after expire!
 
Ok so let me explain something a little bit. I've read many topics but every information I get is somewhat contradictory. There's no "mining theory of everything" that fits me without questions. So I've decided to perform a series of tests until I find out whats going on.
The most thing I have problem with atm is understanding what actually NRF is.
1) NRF is a result of finder "miss" just like a gun miss. Other guys (or even me) could find a claim using same equipment on the same area.
2) NRF is a result of "no resource in the area for everybody"
And even in this thread there are contradictory observations supporting both 1 (rebombing same spots leads to massive losses) and 2 (rebombing with huge overlapping may lead to series of claims).
 
golddude said:
Not true.... I've stood in the same spot with 3 bombs and have received 3 claims. Doesn't happen very ofton but LBMT is a big helper to know when to do it
Click to expand...


What 'isn't true.'?

Rgds

Ace
 
stc44 said:
The most thing I have problem with atm is understanding what actually NRF is.
Click to expand...

Nobody can answer this with 100% accuracy. My opinion is that a better comparison is that a NRF is equal to a nolooter mob.
 
ZPF said:
Sometimes I hear this ridiculous "movement calculation" theory floating around. People actually think Mindark tracks how much you move between drops and somehow integrates this into their sophisticated claim generation algorithm :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

Official explanation by MA when nooloters were introducted that it help to loot full (L) item latter....
And "is not whatever you may think it is" (similar statement is still present in some tool tips or other under your mouse) ...
 
stc44 said:
Ok so let me explain something a little bit. I've read many topics but every information I get is somewhat contradictory. There's no "mining theory of everything" that fits me without questions. So I've decided to perform a series of tests until I find out whats going on.
The most thing I have problem with atm is understanding what actually NRF is.
1) NRF is a result of finder "miss" just like a gun miss. Other guys (or even me) could find a claim using same equipment on the same area.
2) NRF is a result of "no resource in the area for everybody"
And even in this thread there are contradictory observations supporting both 1 (rebombing same spots leads to massive losses) and 2 (rebombing with huge overlapping may lead to series of claims).
Click to expand...

I found that "2)" above depends on timing. Staying in the same spot and blasting away is looking for a loss. What I tested was a simple square (head N, drop probe, head E, drop probe, head S....) Depending on if there was a high "loot pool" in that area, it would keep on generating claims providing that you did not blast the same spot more than once. If you missed one point in the square during one cycle does not mean that it will not generate on the next one. If the square fails to produce any resources during a single cycle, it's time to move on.
 
Dan59 said:
Official explanation by MA when nooloters were introducted that it help to loot full (L) item latter....
And "is not whatever you may think it is" (similar statement is still present in some tool tips or other under your mouse) ...
Click to expand...

There was a little bit of truth to that, when Mindark were using a certain geometric pattern to generate static loot locations.
 
Reading this thread reminds me of why I rarely mine :laugh:
It seems too much calculation and organization to me when all I want is to play.
Good luck to all of you miners :)















[#space_flight] ~ when traveling to other worlds find a pilot to take you there in [#space_flight]
 
ZPF said:
If it was that simple, you could stand in one spot and drop for hours and receive normal returns.

Anyone care to test that? :cool:
Click to expand...

Have seen such a test long time ago, it did not work that way :D
 
Ace Flyster said:
Didn't John do one of his insane tests, on mining refresh as well?
Click to expand...

If you're asking about me, I'm afraid checking for respawn in exact location isn't something I tested for. Sorry.

As far as I can figure, there's only ~3 decent mining loot location theories. Either:

  1. Claim is generated upon success, and given random location within finder area
  2. Claim spots spawn randomly, like mobs.
  3. Claims spawn in exact same spots over and over.
But exact material depends on the equipment/skills that find it.

I had discounted #3 long ago, so never thought to test to see if an expired claim would respawn same place. Based on either #1 or 2, the answer is that it would either be somewhere else, or in same/similar location by chance.
 
JohnCapital said:
If you're asking about me, I'm afraid checking for respawn in exact location isn't something I tested for. Sorry.

As far as I can figure, there's only ~3 decent mining loot location theories. Either:

  1. Claim is generated upon success, and given random location within finder area
  2. Claim spots spawn randomly, like mobs.
  3. Claims spawn in exact same spots over and over.
But exact material depends on the equipment/skills that find it.

I had discounted #3 long ago, so never thought to test to see if an expired claim would respawn same place. Based on either #1 or 2, the answer is that it would either be somewhere else, or in same/similar location by chance.
Click to expand...

I think that either 1 or 2 are correct, 3 is a no go...
 
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