Help: Figuring out markup for hunting.

When figuring out markup on a certain enemy when hunting, how exactly do others figure out the MU?

As it is I have just been taking the average % from all lootables, but that cant be accurate can it? Especially when you consider the different chances of different loot dropping.

The closest I can figure at the moment is take the total tt of looted items, figure out what percentage of loot is what and go from there.

example, animal muscle oil was 50% of my TT value with an MU of 105% (as example)

animal oil residue was 25% of my TT value with an MU of 102%

diluted sweat was 25% of my TT value with an MU of 101%

If that's all it dropped, would I instead use the numbers 102.5%, 100.5% and 100.25% for getting an average of 101.08%? Seems silly when I think about it.

I know entropia life and entropedia also indicate very often, often, common, etc... for loot drop rates on different creatures, but I'm not really sure how that helps me if at all.

Any help is appreciated!

Zanathos said:

When figuring out markup on a certain enemy when hunting, how exactly do others figure out the MU?

As it is I have just been taking the average % from all lootables, but that cant be accurate can it? Especially when you consider the different chances of different loot dropping.

The closest I can figure at the moment is take the total tt of looted items, figure out what percentage of loot is what and go from there.

example, animal muscle oil was 50% of my TT value with an MU of 105% (as example)

animal oil residue was 25% of my TT value with an MU of 102%

diluted sweat was 25% of my TT value with an MU of 101%

If that's all it dropped, would I instead use the numbers 102.5%, 100.5% and 100.25% for getting an average of 101.08%? Seems silly when I think about it.

I know entropia life and entropedia also indicate very often, often, common, etc... for loot drop rates on different creatures, but I'm not really sure how that helps me if at all.

Any help is appreciated!

Click to expand...

Kill <big number> of that mob, sell the items, then calculate how much markup in PED was put into your card. Base your MU% on that number.

This is the only method I recommend.

Seems like what you did is the best way to go.
Anything under 101 I TT pretty much anyway - after auction fee you won't get that 1% back unless the total TT is very very high.

You joined this forum in 2005?

ZPF said:

Kill <big number> of that mob, sell the items, then calculate how much markup in PED was put into your card. Base your MU% on that number.

This is the only method I recommend.

Click to expand...

I suppose that's one way to figure it out, if you base it off of how much more in peds you get from the tt value of the loot after selling.

But the issue I keep seeing is when it comes to different mobs.

Sure I could kill 1k exarosaur as an example the one day, but there's also numerous other creatures I could hunt as well with different loot and if i hunt each of them each day to figure out the MU, by the time I see which would be best and go back to it to hunt, the MU on the loot could change along with every other creature I just test hunted to find out as well.

It feels like there should be a better way to at least get a rough estimate before I go out to hunt it seems.

DavinFelth said:

Seems like what you did is the best way to go.
Anything under 101 I TT pretty much anyway - after auction fee you won't get that 1% back unless the total TT is very very high.

You joined this forum in 2005?

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Yeah, long time ago. I've played Entropia Universe for longer, 2003-2004. But I've actually had numerous and LONG breaks over the years.

Feel kind of embarrassed to ask questions like this cause I feel like I should know these answers myself by now lol. But I've never gotten into the finer details like this when It comes to any activities in EU.

To be clarify though, did you mean taking the average MU of all the lootables as told by entropedia or entropia life, or,

taking what I actually find from hunting the creature and figuring out the % of each item that makes up the TT value, (example, 50% of loot has 105% MU so 102.5% would be the number i use to add up and figure averge?)

What ZPF says is the only way to do it to find out if you can successfully hunt a mob.


Your math is also wrong.

It would be:

50% of the loot at 105% etc.

(.5 x 1.05) + (.25 x 1.02) + (.25 x 1.01) = 1.0325 or 103.25% overall markup.

A lot of people are afraid to ask questions, the smart ones ask and learn.

Dab said:

What ZPF says is the only way to do it to find out if you can successfully hunt a mob.


Your math is also wrong.

It would be:

50% of the loot at 105% etc.

(.5 x 1.05) + (.25 x 1.02) + (.25 x 1.01) = 1.0325 or 103.25% overall markup.

A lot of people are afraid to ask questions, the smart ones ask and learn.

Click to expand...

I get that part with ZPF and such, because it completely depends on your gear your using to hunt too. More economical gear can afford to hunt lower MU mobs and still be successful to an extent, or if you get hit too much, too weak of a gun, too much mob regen, etc...

As for the math, so, right idea I was thinking just wrong way to find the answer it seems, thank you for clarifying.

I'm wondering though is there at least a way to roughly figure it out before I hunt using the information from entropedia and entropia life? I'm assume the very often, often and common drop rates are supposed to be roughly a certain percentage of drops being that item in particular. (Though I assume as well only hunting the creature will get you a more accurate %)

Zanathos said:

I suppose that's one way to figure it out, if you base it off of how much more in peds you get from the tt value of the loot after selling.

Click to expand...

Yup, you can track auction fees on the side if you want to be very thorough.

Zanathos said:

But the issue I keep seeing is when it comes to different mobs.

Click to expand...

Markup will always shift/displace based on a lot of factors. The heavy crafters / heavy hunters / heavy miners all have massive impacts on markups crashing/rising and it's not really something you can predict. If you have the bankroll to hang on to your loot and only sell during price spikes, you can do exceptionally well.

Zanathos said:

Sure I could kill 1k exarosaur as an example the one day, but there's also numerous other creatures I could hunt as well with different loot and if i hunt each of them each day to figure out the MU, by the time I see which would be best and go back to it to hunt, the MU on the loot could change along with every other creature I just test hunted to find out as well.

It feels like there should be a better way to at least get a rough estimate before I go out to hunt it seems.

Click to expand...

Ok so you just want a rough estimate... Then just kill a large number and record loot distribution. Ignore things that are exceedingly hard to sell such as extractors/paints/low demand (L) gear unless you plan on holding onto them for weeks/months/forever.

Yeah it's annoying, but what did you expect? As far as I know there is no online source that can give you this kind of information, at least not as accurately as you desire.

This is just one of those things that can give you a competitive edge, I highly doubt anyone is going to take the time/effort to post detailed markup/loot breakdowns for mobs online. If you want the profit you have to put in the legwork.

I've done just that with my tool here:
http://arkadiaforum.com/threads/a-geeky-tool-for-measuring-eco.12205/

After importing your data in a spreadsheet you can just add markups, sum up and divide by the TT sum.

ZPF said:

Ok so you just want a rough estimate... Then just kill a large number and record loot distribution. Ignore things that are exceedingly hard to sell such as extractors/paints/low demand (L) gear unless you plan on holding onto them for weeks/months/forever.

Yeah it's annoying, but what did you expect? As far as I know there is no online source that can give you this kind of information, at least not as accurately as you desire.

This is just one of those things that can give you a competitive edge, I highly doubt anyone is going to take the time/effort to post detailed markup/loot breakdowns for mobs online. If you want the profit you have to put in the legwork.

Click to expand...

Ultimately I would like to be able to figure it out roughly before I invest the time and peds to actually hunt the creature yes, I've been wondering about how I could use the info provided by entropedia and entropia life and the very often, often, common, etc... To figure out the average MU currently on the creature.

does very often = 50% of the loot? common 20%? that kind of thing.

Also figured that taking the average MU of all the lootables wasn't accurate as well. So good to know the math to figure it out based on the % that item takes up your loot.

I'm not really looking to just be handed detailed markup/loot breakdowns for mobs online. But would like to know what the very often, often, common, etc actually means at least lol, since I haven't seen anything like that anywhere, this would at least allow me to get a rough estimate. Unless there really is no % equivalent that those values are supposed to roughly mean.

The rest of the legwork from there I have no problem with doing myself and in fact have been preparing to do so.

Zanathos said:

Ultimately I would like to be able to figure it out roughly before I invest the time and peds to actually hunt the creature yes, I've been wondering about how I could use the info provided by entropedia and entropia life and the very often, often, common, etc... To figure out the average MU currently on the creature.

does very often = 50% of the loot? common 20%? that kind of thing.

Also figured that taking the average MU of all the lootables wasn't accurate as well. So good to know the math to figure it out based on the % that item takes up your loot.

I'm not really looking to just be handed detailed markup/loot breakdowns for mobs online. But would like to know what the very often, often, common, etc actually means at least lol, since I haven't seen anything like that anywhere, this would at least allow me to get a rough estimate.

The rest of the legwork from there I have no problem with doing myself and in fact have been preparing to do so.

Click to expand...

Entropedia is not updated regularly anymore afaik.

Also those distributions can be adjusted by Mindark at any time for any reason. "Dynamic"

Working out the average mark up on a per mob basis doesn't necessarily help you that much as in reality, baring an esi or some other 'elite' markup (which you can not in any way count on) dropping there is very little that can affect your over all return in a significant way other than the gear that you use. The majority of the higher mark up drops in such a low tt value versus the cost to farm it that the impact on hunting income is negligible.

eg. you spend 2k to gather 40 peds of output amplifiers, which while nice, doesn't quite cover a 200 ped hole in your pocket if you had a rough run. In most cases mark up is really just used to mitigate your losses some what while you are grinding until the laws of large numbers pull your over overall return in line with the expected average, a percentage which is dependant entirely on your gear, or in other words, your relative cost to kill.

As others have stated, entropedia is no longer exactly cutting edge in terms of mob drops or even locations. What it does offer how ever is a rough guide, though unfortunately the only way to find out for sure is to hunt and keep a record of what each mob drops. The auction house will provide current markups.

Rather than looking at an average per mob, spread your bets a bit and identify a few key drops split across a few mobs that your own records have identified and work at raising the over all mark up that YOU have gathered rather than a per mob basis. Comparing the mark up of the stacks gathered vs your over all return will give you decent understanding of where you are sitting with regard to profit/loss. Of course this doesn't cover AH fees which to be fair are a ball ache.

It's also worth noting that mark up fluctuates depending on certain in game events, so some tt food items are not always tt food. This high lights the importance of bank roll, as you'll need to be able to keep grinding and still hang on to Items if needed. This also dictates WHAT you can hunt, as consistency is the key, you need to be able to afford to keep cycling to get to that expected average as well kill enough per cycle to maximise the odds of a decent return per run.

With regard to drop rates, these fluctuate too, items, that is chips, weapons and armour tend to come in waves which you will only see by Grinding a significant number of a particular mob. Components on the other hand seem stable, you tend to get a similar number of each per for run providing your run size is consistent, the quantities of each depending on the relative drop rate. Which again unfortunately you will only know by grinding and recording.

In short, identity a few mobs can afford to hunt consistently based on hp, gear and bankroll, from this menu use your logs, spread sheet, lucky dice or what ever to determine the yield in terms of markup, and then work on reducing your cost to kill.

Perhaps most important, work out what to can afford to LOSE each month and still keep going.

Nut

Thank you for that post

Most of that is stuff I know though when it comes to figuring out if you can simply afford to hunt that creature based on your current hunting methods.

My only problem at the moment was trying to figure out the MU on a creature. I at least have the math to figure out the average markup based on the total TT of loot I got. Entropedia and Entropia Life, I hoped that the very often, often, common, etc... drop rates that it indicated at least equaled some kind of rough percent. Made sense to me because otherwise how could you categorize the loot like that unless literally everyone was just going off the general feeling of what the drop was right.

Those drop rates really don't have a rough percentage value equivalent? Or have they been categorized as very often, often, common, etc... simply based on general feelings while hunting?

I was going to use that along with info on what it drops to figure out the rough MU on the mob then actually hunt them myself to see. Track the results, see what I'm actually getting on average if I'm going into the positive or negative, etc...

Hunting with the right weapon, finisher, armour, healing tool and having the bankroll to build up stacks and kill enough of them to figure out a proper return rate, is stuff that I do know about already.

I guess I was hoping to minimize my risk at first by having an estimated guess of MU returns before I actually hunt.