Question: Vibrant Sweat (L)

Would there be a benefit to changing Vibrant Sweat to (L) and putting an expiration date on it ?

This might give stability to the sweat market by eliminating over production. Sweat that is already available could be marked as (UL) and have no expiration which would protect those that have peds invested into sweat inventories.

Mind Essence could also be (L) , but with longer dates since it is refined.
Mind Essence made with (UL) sweat would of course be (UL) since no date is on the sweat.

The date on the (L) sweat of course would matter greatly and determine the overall stability of the market.

Please discuss how this idea might have merit or not , details would benefit the discussion.

Bones said:

Would there be a benefit to changing Vibrant Sweat to (L) and putting an expiration date on it ?

This might give stability to the sweat market by eliminating over production. Sweat that is already available could be marked as (UL) and have no expiration which would protect those that have peds invested into sweat inventories.

Mind Essence could also be (L) , but with longer dates since it is refined.
Mind Essence made with (UL) sweat would of course be (UL) since no date is on the sweat.

The date on the (L) sweat of course would matter greatly and determine the overall stability of the market.

Please discuss how this idea might have merit or not , details would benefit the discussion.

Click to expand...

mind essence is ammo, it shouldn't have expiration date...but i like your idea of sweat being limited time only.

(L) Sweat is actually not such a bad idea. Lets just say that in 60 days (or less) it evaporates

True Juan said:

(L) Sweat is actually not such a bad idea. Lets just say that in 60 days (or less) it evaporates

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They could keep it in a refrigerator to last longer , that way crafters can get a cut too....

Doubt it is feasible.

I suspect server load will increase alot more, considering there is probably 100k? more sweat generated every week, at the very least.

You will need to have server tracking each and every sweat bottle's individual dates. Not to forget the code (logic) to check every single bottle of sweat for expiration.

Although it may be fun to watch a stack of sweat slowly "evaporating" as individual bottles expire over time, lol.

In such case then all consumables, fruits, nutrios and liquids should be (L)!!! No! Bad idea and could open the "Pandora's box"

the-unknown said:

Doubt it is feasible.

I suspect server load will increase alot more, considering there is probably 100k? more sweat generated every week, at the very least.

You will need to have server tracking each and every sweat bottle's individual dates. Not to forget the code (logic) to check every single bottle of sweat for expiration.

Although it may be fun to watch a stack of sweat slowly "evaporating" as individual bottles expire over time, lol.

Click to expand...

Couldn't all sweat acquired on a date all given the same date code ?

Like it......

And make mined minerals L and shrapnels L and whatever materials looted L, so it decays when you go to vacation and come back with a loss of some thousand $ in materials you couldn´t sell due to to low stacks to make it profitable to auction.

Please people use your brain, befor posting in wishlist forum, otherwise MA could implement such really stupid ideas.

If you want to get a value on sweat, then use more ME and craft a lot more with sweat.

If you are not willing doing that, you don´t want the price up.

How do you (L) stackables?

GoNi said:

And make mined minerals L and shrapnels L and whatever materials looted L, so it decays when you go to vacation and come back with a loss of some thousand $ in materials you couldn´t sell due to to low stacks to make it profitable to auction.

Please people use your brain, befor posting in wishlist forum, otherwise MA could implement such really stupid ideas.

If you want to get a value on sweat, then use more ME and craft a lot more with sweat.

If you are not willing doing that, you don´t want the price up.

Click to expand...

I doubt any amount of crafting or me use will rise the price now. The amount of players (not just noons, by high skilled players) who sweat on daily basis. Some has thousands of k sweat in storage. If anything the price might even drop to 1 ped making it even harder for a non deposit noon to get going, but there is more free starter stuff in game.

bigdaddy trim said:

I doubt any amount of crafting or me use will rise the price now. The amount of players (not just noons, by high skilled players) who sweat on daily basis. Some has thousands of k sweat in storage. If anything the price might even drop to 1 ped making it even harder for a non deposit noon to get going, but there is more free starter stuff in game.

Click to expand...

a "Short term" downside effect with a eventual massive consistent upside over the longer term for sweaters. Perishables adds realism - Eventually i would like to see an expansion of realism along the perishables line such as weight gain or loss, aging ava's, eating for energy to hunt, water, etc - almost educational promoting good habits and such. But thats for another thread.

I think the idea has some value but would have to be implemented carefully.

It would certainly place a cap on the number of bottles of sweat in the universe at any one time, if this cap was low then it would create a sellers market, particularly if the ME also decayed but even if the ME didn't decay because of general usage (i think, right?). On the other hand the buyers know the sweat will expire if it cannot be sold so the buyers could cartel against rising prices and simply refuse to buy at high rates? This could lead to sweaters producing their own ME or ME users producing their own sweat?! lol

It would also prevent market dumps because nobody could ever have more a few tens of thousands of sweat (depending on the decay rate).

Probably the decay timer should start for every bottle collected to prevent a secondary market of people off loading any significant amount of sweat that is due to expire at discount prices? If the entire stack was treated as something which was evaporating at the same rate it would be interesting and avoid this.


EDIT probably this idea would lead to so many market unknowns it would be hard to gauge its success. However I do think it is a good idea to cap sweat somehow because at the moment the system favours people who are able to spend 5-6+ hours per day. These people can afford to dump their sweat cheap and it lowers the price for everyone else who plays for 1-2 hours per day and ideally would like to sell high. If everyone was capped at sweating (in some natural way, such as sweat tool decay battery life and recharge rate) to 2 hours it would be overall more fairer system that might also increase prices a bit...

back in the day it wasn't possible to afk sweat so easily so boredom induced a sort of natural cap for most people after a few hours, now with auto tool I read about people afk sweating at work for 8 hours a day and things like that which feels a bit unbalanced to me.

OK, here's MY sweating style:

After my hunting run is over, I remove my armor and sweat the nearest mob until it kills me. I get ~0-40 bottles of sweat per run, mob depending, occasional skill gains and a fast free trip to the local revive, which is usually right by the terminals & TP.

My little stack of sweat builds slowly and on occasion, I refine it for ME personal use. I have a stack of bottles that range in months old. Some but not all gets split & refined at some point.

And you want the system to be able to handle this how?

Some interesting pros to the rosy tinted discussion here.

Unfortunately not the first time someone suggested sweat expires.
So here's some of the cons from what I recall reading awhile ago and probably on another forum.

How to stack sweat by the minute/hour/day they expire? Will MA allow players to carry + store more items???
If sweat expires then fewer players would bother to do sweat gathering missions.
- Arkadia requires 10k sweat for passport bribe.
- Mission Galactica and Cyrene both require sweat for a mission.
Support gets flooded with a new so-called "scam" of selling sweat super cheap where it expires minutes or even moments after the sale.
Some players will just react and simply sell off MF chips/gear and leaving fewer players buying sweat.
Realistically the sweat prices are far more likely to plummet to never before seen lows, because there's enough f2p players who'd sell at any price just to avoid loosing out from sweat expiring.
And enough buyers will wait till near known expiring times to buy cheap or make low offers.

My thoughts:
If f2p sweater doesn't sell in time they have nothing and making f2p sweat-Grind a miserable punishing thing.

But hey could be wrong

People don't understand people I guess.

If sweat was limited and time-sensitive, it would drive sweat prices down not up.

• No more sweat traders offering .1, .2 under market value
• Individual sweaters desperately selling before their stack expires

I'd expect sweat to fall under 1.2/k.

Day 1: Sweat collected 1k
Day 2: Sweat collected 1k
Day 3: Sweat collected 1k
Day 4: Sweat collected 1k
Day 5: Sweat collected 1k - same day ""WTS 5k Sweat 10ped"
Day 6: Sweat collected 1k - same day ""WTS 6k Sweat 12ped"
....
Day 10: Sweat collected 1k - same day ""WTS 10k Sweat 19ped"
...
Day 20: Sweat collected 1k - same day ""WTS 20k Sweat 36ped"
...
Day 30: Sweat collected 1k - same day ""WTS 30k Sweat 45ped"

..
Next day
the sweat collected on day 1 expires but no sweat got sold

I can agree there would be some wild market fluctuations at first till the market regulated the price to the demand.

What would the max sweat supply be if there were a 30 , 60 , 90 day expiration , 1 million bottles for a 90 day supply?

Currently there are many millions in storage and climbing as the price slowly declines since there is either not enough demand to usage , or advertising is catching up and we are being overrun by new sweaters.

I guess part of what brought me to this original question was , how will we retain the influxes of newer players our advertising creates if we don't somehow adjust the system for retention.

Obviously without some change to what system we currently use there will be a point where the Storage must be released into usage unless those are to remain lost peds.

GoNi said:

And make mined minerals L and shrapnels L and whatever materials looted L, so it decays when you go to vacation and come back with a loss of some thousand $ in materials you couldn´t sell due to to low stacks to make it profitable to auction.

Please people use your brain, befor posting in wishlist forum, otherwise MA could implement such really stupid ideas.

If you want to get a value on sweat, then use more ME and craft a lot more with sweat.

If you are not willing doing that, you don´t want the price up.

Click to expand...

This is not the wishlist forum , it is the Mindforce forum.

As far as MA seeing these posts and running out to deploy them , I think that might be a tad far fetched , its meant to be a discussion thread as I stated in the OP. I would prefer an open discussion with the playerbase and if by chance MA were to visit this thread , they might see some of how the idea relates to the players.

It is a discussion

Maybe once you reach L20 SG any sweat is non tradable, but can be used in crafting and non tradeable ME. This way older players still have option to get their own sweat, with our over flowing the sweat market. Its probably to complicated for MA to put into practice anyway.

Well, they talked Mindark in to removing Armor decay at one point a long time ago... even though clothes still decay I believe... so it's not likely gonna happen as too many would complain...

but...

Perhaps make it so that mobs sweat itself doesn't decay but the tool used to collect it does at the rate that clothes do... Every time you switch to another item it'll drop 2 pec in tt value. Then convert that tool to L....

Gold farmers will spawn a million and one alts, but they already do that, so it won't be much different than things are now.

Bones said:

Would there be a benefit to changing Vibrant Sweat to (L) and putting an expiration date on it ?

This might give stability to the sweat market by eliminating over production. Sweat that is already available could be marked as (UL) and have no expiration which would protect those that have peds invested into sweat inventories.

Mind Essence could also be (L) , but with longer dates since it is refined.
Mind Essence made with (UL) sweat would of course be (UL) since no date is on the sweat.

The date on the (L) sweat of course would matter greatly and determine the overall stability of the market.

Please discuss how this idea might have merit or not , details would benefit the discussion.

Click to expand...

I love this idea. I have another idea that I think is better.

Just make sweat auctionable.

Lefty said:

I love this idea. I have another idea that I think is better.

Just make sweat auctionable.

Click to expand...

It already is... you just have to refine it and convert it over to ME first.

Lefty said:

I love this idea. I have another idea that I think is better.

Just make sweat auctionable.

Click to expand...

Are you not able to refine it into creates no more? Any way how is flooding the AH with sweat going to help?

Bones said:

Would there be a benefit to changing Vibrant Sweat to (L) and putting an expiration date on it ?

Click to expand...

No there wouldn't.



And even if it was possible to code it, I'd imagine other stackable items would also be affected. Common dung, fruit etc - would you be so keen on fruit going mouldy in storage? People who have taken a couple of months off during the Summer would be in for a unpleasant surprise.

Mega said:

No there wouldn't.



And even if it was possible to code it, I'd imagine other stackable items would also be affected. Common dung, fruit etc - would you be so keen on fruit going mouldy in storage? People who have taken a couple of months off during the Summer would be in for a unpleasant surprise.

Click to expand...

It also effectively creates a "monthly fee" - one of the USP's of Entropia is that you can take as long as you want between logins (ok, within 3 years) and everything will be as you left it. Introducing this would create a fee of either your time (having to login & sell your sweat) or money (X pec / day depending on your sweat holdings).

It's just a bad idea full stop - it wouldn't affect me one bit (I don't sweat, only got 86pts SG skill and I buy all my ME on auc) so there's no bias here.

Can't see how it's possible to stack items expiring at different times.

Besides anything with an expiry date is a very bad idea, I'm totally against it. Because if it happens it opens the door for more and more things to expire.

That means decaying skills, decays idle pet xp....the list goes on. Don't open that Pandora's box.

Rick

Vibrant Sweat (L) with discussed reasons is like prelude into more "exciting" features like estate deed with expiration date, LA'S deed with date when your ownership expire except ofc if you pay additional moderate fee of several K$ in time ect lol.....

And we have tools for it.
Politic system and government tax LA's owners and if not paid remove ownership, tax vehicle drivers who will need to pay driving, flying licenses, motherships for licence to use space and to perform public services like transport ect and loose ownership if they dont pay lol.

Vibrant sweat (L) i put in same group of TP fees and all other ideas to make game more expensive.

It's much easier and healthy for the economy to implement more uses for Vibrant Sweat.

Impossible to manage, and you will get the opposite of what u want !!!

I sell you 1k sweat ... 1 000 bottle ... you'll have to check all bottle one by one for expiration date to be sure i will not scam u with bottles which will expire 5 mn after our trade.

Second problem : price of sweat will be linked to deadline, a bottle closed to expire will worth nothing.

At the end u will not make the price of sweat increase, it will be the opposite : people wil be ready to sell sweat which is going to expire for ridiculous price, better to sell 1k for 0.5 peds than to see it vanished !

U will get exactly the opposite of what u want ...

Solutions to make the price of sweat increase were suggested many times (refine oil+sweat for vehicul gaz, etc ...). MA never answered so i think MA does not really want the sweat price increase, MA have tons of solutions if they really want to do something.