Dear Devs

Firstly, and I dont think you hear this often enough, thank you for developing such a wonderful and unique game.


A few suggestions from a seasoned player of multiple different MMO's. We can all agree that EU being a RCE is the big draw for this game, the idea that you can earn while you play is actually what enticed me to start playing this many, many years ago.

1. Someone needs to get some steel-capped boots on and sort out Support. Enough said about that now.

2. Player retention, lets admit it, player retention for this game is up to shit, people come and go but lots more don't come back or they take quite a few breaks lasting many months (I am included in this group)

So how do we keep players? That's the million PED question isn't it? Well lets start with increasing the player base and then converting F2P players into depositors and the only way I can see that is to make sweat useful again. Now there have been many ideas on how to do that, I would suggest simply using sweat for crafting and to tier items. Increasing the usefulness of sweat will bring in more F2P players, sure sweat prices will jump around a bit, but it will settle down nicely eventually. Now some people will be wondering why I'm going on about F2P so much, well basically the F2P model saves games and brings in more people (look at DDO, SWTOR and soon even EVE online will have F2P) Converting those F2P players into depositors is more likely to happen the more players you get. My suggestion to using sweat for tiering up purposes is simple, for each tier x 10k Sweat for e.g. tier 4 uses 40k sweat and so on up to 100k for tier 10.
One of the best ideas I've seen for sweat and to stop people from afk'ing is to allow other players to sweat from the afk'ers after a certain period of inactivity. Dont afk with your VSE equipped and you won't get sweated, simple.

3. Starter packs. So you have just spend X USD on a lovely shiny starter pack, which is basically useless (apart from the amp) after a month of playing. How about increasing the armour's defence as you increase the tiers? Say like tier 1 (stays the same), tier 2 (base stats x2), tier 3 (base stats x3) etc. Well for the armour anyway, the gun and fap I would suggest that as you increase the tiers they automatically get enhanced, all of them (eco, damage, etc) while still leaving the tier slots open. I believe in doing this you will get more people buying the starter packs, which is more money for you, and those of use that have them sitting in our storage will be able to use them more. I like the look of my Adj Harrier and the sound of my Z12! Making the starter equips viable up to mid level will mean more people buying them, which is more money for you guys.
Now some players will complain that this gives new players with the starter pack an advantage over other players, my response to that will be this : They are investing in their characters and helping with keeping the game online, want the same advantage? Spend some money.

4. Which brings me to Enchancers. Well lets face it, if you are lowish level tiering up weapons, armours and faps just arent worth it, at all. Easy way to sort that out make enhancers last x10 as long as they do now and you will probably have x20 as many people using them. Now as to why it would be in your benefit, enhancers need components from the TT and those PEDs go straight into your pocket. 20 times as many people using enhancers means 20 times as many components being bought from the TT and 20 times as much money going into your pocket.

*Edit
Sorry forgot to add this could you please include a combat log that shows what mob was killed and what loot we got for it. You could stop [Rookie] from being saved into the chat file and use that space for a combat log.

I hope this game continues to evolve and expand to the betterment of not only the players but to you the people that have invested a huge amount of time into developing this wonderful game.

Yours Truly
Gregg

interesting ideas!

I'm 100% with you for combat/loot log and option to disable channels not only rookie (I never use rookie so it's useless for me and many like me). Some channels aren't needed to everyone and using resources without reason.

1. 100% Agree, i've had a few never answered cased, but we need some lines drawn, instead of grey areas like VTOL hunting and the Xane thread

2. I agree with more sweat ideas, but i'm not convinced this would turn sweaters into depositors, likely create a sweat farming market for bots. Regarding the Tiering idea, having a flat 10k/tier is painful for the smaller items, if sweat stayed at 2ped/k each tier is increased by 20ped*tier, adding 1100 ped to tier 1 - 10

3. the armour is fine, its durability sucks for any mid level play and the Disciple armour comes in for low-mid play. The Adj Harrier still has its place, i wear it for still for slow moving mobs like Traeskeron, Prots and Tides, i'm lvl 60. Allowing an upgrade of the Harrier to mid lvl armor would kill the value of Adj Pixie, Gremlin and so on

4.interesting idea, not sure if that would increase or decrease the MU, as more popular but lasting longer. I'd like to see other enhancers available, ones that change damage type for PVP, or causes burning/poison DOT

Mindark prefers it when players are not retained, I suspect... as long time players are less likely to make expensive n00b mistakes that fill Mindark's deposit wallet. Some nefarious types in the community also prefer things that way so that Markup goes up due to those that don't think before they buy.

First, appreciate the fresh look of an outsider. I agree with some of what you're saying but for completely different reasons... But let me explain. I won't be beating around the bush, i'll say exactly as it is and that won't be pleasant I'm afraid. Sry for that.

Being a long time gamer isn't always automatically a bonus. Sometimes all this baggage of *other games* keeps weighing you down and doesn't let you see those things that are unique in some games. When this happens you'll be just steamrolling over the beautiful landscape while completely unaware what your'e doing... all with good intentions, but the result is still the same.
'Cuz let's be honest, most games out there are just clones of those few successful games that we have had over years. Why? Because it's safer. This way you know for certain you'll be providing exactly what 90% of your potential players expect.
If you don't keep on the beaten path, you'll get suggestions like that one. Which can be summarized as "make it exactly like all other games out there and I'm happy!"
There's a grain of truth in this for sure, this is a magic cure for many problems indeed. Just give up being original, go with the mainstream and you can't fail.

This game is balanced to a degree you can't even imagine. Often it's just fractions of a % that often makes all the difference in this game. It can't be any other way here 'cuz unlike in all the other games, ingame currency here is actually not totally worthless imaginary commodity that you can just throw at players giving them illusion they have achieved something. Here, if you earn those ingame coins you have actually made real money. Thus, you have to be very careful it won't be easy to get and there's absolutely no way to farm it easy.

increasing armor stats x2, not to speak about x3 and more would destroy the economy instantly. Likewise, all the other suggestions. I'm not sure you can see it right now, or understand why. Come back when you can.

Meanwhile, go actually play the game. Just being here now and then and doing some casual sweating won't give you much understanding about the actual game mechanics. Best education is doing it, and maybe afterwards reading some forums, or even better - finding a good mentor who actually knows the game. Which is not easy, I know. Well, anyway, those are your choices. Believe me, to have somebody new share their first impressions about the game (yes, I know you said you are an old player but forgive me when I just overlook this claim here). It is completely other story if a clueless newcomer tries to improve the game. Then it becomes a game of chances - you may accidentally come up with a great idea but most likely you'll be just talking nonsense. Sry to be frank, but that's how it is, IMO.

Just one small observation.

Using sweat for tiering is a tiny drop in the ocean of sweat that is available. Probably won't make the slightest difference to markup.

As using sweat for crafting, that would be great, if there was anything worth crafting, outside amps.


Rgds

Ace

Good post, some flawed ideas but good to see people having a think about how to improve here.

1. Yes, they need a customer service manager and dedicated customer support contacts; "Ulf" who is just one of the programmers has the skills to code C++, not to answer "Has EST been removed".

2. Player retention is exceedingly hard in most games, let alone here where every mistake costs money. People don't like getting things wrong, they definitely don't when it costs them cash. However, there have been great strides to smooth out the new player experience; it is immeasurably better than it was 5 years ago, in some parts it is actually fun and feels like an achievement. A bit more design, polishing, etc here and it should be fine.

3. Starter packs are exactly that - Starter. You can't then develop that item so it lasts you the whole time in EU - it would crash the prices on every other item, and it would wreck markup. The starter packs are (only) $40, the items should last you at least a month (and some are useful beyond this, the Z12 is a useful early-game tagger, and the armour is very useful when mining or hunting slow mobs (or exploring). I still use the scope on my tagger now as it's so cheap.

4. Your math is slightly wrong here - 20x people using enhancers which break 10x less would only see a double in demand, which would equate to 1-2% extra markup for most components (excluding output and infra). However, I do think there needs to be a redesign in "breakrate" - it should be tied to a PED improvement value rather than usage rate. So a single damage enhancer can add between (for example) 5000 and 10000 damage - on a mod merc, this will last a hundred shots, on a Z12 it will last a few thousand.


On regards to Sweat... increasing the Sweat price does absolutely nothing for Mindark. Markup is bad for Mindark - it is this simple.

Per Ped Turnover:

No MU: Depositor -> 1-0.9 RR -> 0.1 to MA.

MU: Depositor -> 1-MU*0.9 RR -> 0.1*(1*MU) to MA.

Yes, the logic goes give the new player some cash and they will spend it on the game, catch the bug, and deposit themselves. However, we have seen over the years that this is not the case (Sweating has been around for over 10 years now) - you essentially just breed a mindset of "non depositors" who will sweat for 10 hours a day.

Aio said:

No MU: Depositor -> 1-0.9 RR -> 0.1 to MA.

MU: Depositor -> 1-MU*0.9 RR -> 0.1*(1*MU) to MA.

Click to expand...

maybe I have a misunderstanding here but the MU is payed by another player. When the whole system is based on, let's say 90% return, MU dont bother MA at all.

otherwise I agree with Fifth.

every change that stops or delay the moneyflow to MA is not very good.

I remember when sweat prices higher players of several years still living on it so agree that increasing price of sweat will not increase conversion rate to depositors. The hostility between sweaters and depositors was severe it is less so now since drop of sweat prices.















#space_flight ~ where pilots advertise to grow their business

1. On support's sluggishness, no disagreement here.

2. While the game could use some improvements, the low player retention is mostly not because something's wrong with the game, it's because of the wrong expectations of new players. Too many people, 4/5 of them I would say, come with the notion of making quick money here, some even expect to make a living off the game. Naturally, they flee as soon as they realize it's not going to happen. Of those for whom the money aspect is not priority and who really come to play a game, not everyone posses the persistence to climb the learning curve. After all, there are so many games out there you can play for pure fun with less efforts. This sifting leaves us with a bunch of people who might be not numerous but are just right for this game. And if there are at least some people who enjoy the game for years, then it's not a broken game, it's just another kind of a game.

And now you propose to stimulate the sweaters. Sorry but you don't understand how it works. Sweat has tons of applications in crafting, missions etc and gets more over years, but its value keeps declining over the same period. Each time sweat gets a new use and is about to gain value it... loses value even further. Why? Because more players jump on the sweating bandwagon. A potentially depositing newcomer sticks with sweating. Low depositors switch back to sweating. See, it's a self-regulating system, you can't extinguish a fire with oil. Even with the sweat price as low as it is, we have 3 sweating grounds on Calypso alone. People go as far as employing elaborated bots, even botnets - someone recently posted about several avatars moving and sweating in perfects sync, something unheard of even in the times when sweat was 5 times more expensive. Yielding a record-breakingly low income, sweating is as popular as ever.

Many established players would like the sweating to be removed entirely and the sweat in blueprints and other applications be replaced with something from the loot (nova fragments come to mind), supporting those who really hold this game on their shoulders and wallets. I understand that f2p is a big thing in the gaming world nowadays. But this is not like any other game, f2p doesn't really belong here, fostering it only brings out the freeloader mentality. Developers seemingly understand it, finally having removed the free oil rig with its welfare line. I believe the only reason they keep the sweating is to maintain the game technically free, for marketing purposes. Can't blame them, for in the era of f2p you can't really demand money from a potential customer before they at least had a look.

Do you know that just a few years ago there were no starting freebies at all? No tutorial mission chains, no missions at all, no free gear of any kind, no guides or directions. You just did appear on a big empty tarmac with absolutely nothing and it was totally up to you what to do and where to go next. Everyone who arrived to the game in 2001-2011 have started like that, and lots of them are still here, forming the core of the playerbase. I started in 2006, tried sweating for half a hour, made the calc and came to conclusion that it's not going to work for me (even though sweat was 6+ ped/k back then), dropped in my first $10 and never expected any babysitting.

3. By you own words, you have a month of playing with the starters pack. I can't see why the pack should continue to keep you afloat or even strengthen your avatar after it has done its job. The $50 could buy you some offline game which you would finish in the same month and forget soon after. Instead, you had a nice boost, got some skills and you keep the amp you can use on finishers for years and the great plate-holder with speed buff - many old players, me included, bought those "starters" packs specially for those things. In fact, some kept on buying the packs solely for the 1% of their content - the skill pills, before those become available separately in the resupply packs.

Gregg said:

Now some players will complain that this gives new players with the starter pack an advantage over other players, my response to that will be this : They are investing in their characters and helping with keeping the game online, want the same advantage? Spend some money.

Click to expand...

Exactly. You've had your ride. Want to proceed? Spend some money, keep paying for your entertainment, until perhaps you figure out at some point how to become self-sustainable.

4. Sorry but here you once again display your lack of vision how this world works. A wish to have an easier life at low level is understandable. What you don't understand is every tiny bit that eases life at the bottom, eases it tenfold at the top. Eventually it will come around and hit you in the back, when you won't be able to get any markup for your goods at all, because the gear that is manufactured from those now lasts much longer.

3. Starter packs

Nice post

I do agree with the most above me and it is a starter package and should remain like that
But it should have a BLP rifle also and a amp for that BLP rifle as well, why only stuff for energy weapons

And while your at it MA, why not a Plasma and Guass rifle as well in those packs

I do use those energy amps on all my lower weapons so if MA should put a BLP rifle and a Amp in them i'll be the first to buy some just for that rifle and Amps

My 3 cents

Cheers

Agree on need to have something players can do to earn bit of income while they check the game out.

As already noted free to play is in vogue and if Mind Ark did not have it probably far fewer players would try it out.

I disagree one cannot earn good income from this game. Do agree though it will not happen fast and most players will either deposit or have to do some kind work/trading to keep themselves going.
Even with hard work those players who do make income can only do so because most players deposit and play for leisure.















#space_flight ~ where pilots advertise to grow their business

We CAN say that profit is impossible for some and that statement takes into account each player's real life circumstances.

A player in a comparatively low cost economy with minimal living expenses can make a "profit" far easier than someone who lives in a high cost area and has a lot of expenses. Each player's time is worth a different amount.

For example, if someone's hourly "value", that is, the value of their time regardless of if they are at work or not, is $50 / hour, it is highly unlikely they will "profit" from this game, as it implies that they could be making that amount doing something else. Not enough people in this world think about the value of their time in this way. It really devalues us as individuals and we need to move away from that.

That being said, I agree that a LOT of players are drawn into this game by MA's glamorization of the game. Some fall back down to earth and leave. Others realize they've been had, but still enjoy the community, so they take breaks and move on but then still do come back when there's not much else to do.

Erza said:

3. Starter packs
[...] it should have a BLP rifle also and a amp for that BLP rifle as well, why only stuff for energy weapons

And while your at it MA, why not a Plasma and Guass rifle as well in those packs

Click to expand...

Yes! This is a good suggestion indeed! Why not have 2 different starter pack versions - Laser and BLP. At least 2 for starters, maybe 3 (might add melee as 3rd option). All 3 skill lines are now viable up until the endgame levels (unlike gauss and plasma, regretfully), so with these there's no need to be shy, game could advertise those choices right from the start!

PS: Gotta wait until can give +rep to Svarog and Aio again, but they certainly deserve it.

thats where ND dropped a ball, he made his own starter pack, put a tommy gun in it (sounds good so far)... annndd then makes the tommy gun a Laser Rifle and no amp....

Good point Eli about how much per hour a person can reasonably expect to make depending where they live.
Have noticed a fair number of players who are in to break even or earn extra money are from places where real life earnings are much lower then for example where I live.















#space_flight ~ where pilots advertise to grow their business

If MA really wanted to bring in new players all they would have to do is make a DVD with all the game files up to the current vu and put free copies in every gamestop/game store.

pontfirebird73 said:

If MA really wanted to bring in new players all they would have to do is make a DVD with all the game files up to the current vu and put free copies in every gamestop/game store.

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This is true. Or charge the price of the gold starter pack for it (and include the starter pack). That way new players will have some ped/tools to test the game out with.

Would sell like hot cakes in the US

pontfirebird73 said:

If MA really wanted to bring in new players all they would have to do is make a DVD with all the game files up to the current vu and put free copies in every gamestop/game store.

Click to expand...

no need with the DVD itself. just put an empty DVD box on the shelf, and a code to activate your special offer

pontfirebird73 said:

If MA really wanted to bring in new players all they would have to do is make a DVD with all the game files up to the current vu and put free copies in every gamestop/game store.

Click to expand...

What is a DVD? I haven't had an optical drive in my PC for 3+ years now

Hang on now they got stuff to get done first - dont distract them anymore than they already are !

My website Pedtoclick helps a lot with retention. I am going to be really ramping it up soon and am in discussion with MA about it currently so that should help.

Steam its only thing you need

Svarog said:

What is a DVD? I haven't had an optical drive in my PC for 3+ years now

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It's like Bluray but I think you have to 'rewind' them after watching.

Venture Bros said:

My website Pedtoclick helps a lot with retention. I am going to be really ramping it up soon and am in discussion with MA about it currently so that should help.

Click to expand...

Isn't that the exact same as Entropia Partners and still offers the exact same issues as sweating, playing for free or the promise of easy profit et al; it's a false promise to potential MA customers.

Aio said:

Isn't that the exact same as Entropia Partners and still offers the exact same issues as sweating, playing for free or the promise of easy profit et al; it's a false promise to potential MA customers.

Click to expand...

Its easy profit for Rusty.

Aio said:

Isn't that the exact same as Entropia Partners and still offers the exact same issues as sweating, playing for free or the promise of easy profit et al; it's a false promise to potential MA customers.

Click to expand...

It's no false promise. You can earn some small ped for your time. Both sites are a tremendous help to new players who would rather spend their time than money.

bigdaddy trim said:

Its easy profit for Rusty.

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The site profited 60 usd last year after expenses. After paying the site manager his cut I made 6 usd. Yup easy profit lol

Fifth said:

Yes! This is a good suggestion indeed! Why not have 2 different starter pack versions - Laser and BLP. At least 2 for starters, maybe 3 (might add melee as 3rd option). All 3 skill lines are now viable up until the endgame levels (unlike gauss and plasma, regretfully), so with these there's no need to be shy, game could advertise those choices right from the start!

PS: Gotta wait until can give +rep to Svarog and Aio again, but they certainly deserve it.

Click to expand...

Yep, that would be a great idea

3 starter packs, Laser, BLP and Melee as you say these goes to the high end of this game
Or everything in one big starter pack, starter pack on anabolics
Btw, they should also put a handguns(Laser & BLP) and a knife with the sword and of course lets not forget the amps

One thing that is needed for the beginners is having "many options" to keep them busy so they don't get bored and hopefully they will get hooked and stay longer playing this game

But don't make them weapons as the Kong pack, sound is BLP but it gives you Laser skills

And what about Mindforce

Cheers

Erza said:

Yep, that would be a great idea

3 starter packs, Laser, BLP and Melee as you say these goes to the high end of this game
Or everything in one big starter pack, starter pack on anabolics
Btw, they should also put a handguns(Laser & BLP) and a knife with the sword and of course lets not forget the amps

One thing that is needed for the beginners is having "many options" to keep them busy so they don't get bored and hopefully they will get hooked and stay longer playing this game

But don't make them weapons as the Kong pack, sound is BLP but it gives you Laser skills

And what about Mindforce

Cheers

Click to expand...

A mindforce starter pack would be awesome! Giving all the noobs a tp chip would help with sweat prices too I bet