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Help: Taming - Why the losses?

RickEngland

RickEngland

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Essex England UK
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Rickard Rick England
I'm going to try to be constructive here:

I've stopped hunting big mobs, I actually quite like taming it's entertaining. So taming L6 Chirin Dragons must be pretty eco and way under my skill right? and I've tamed 1000's of the buggers.

So on Saturday at 6pm I deposited 1025 peds to buy this unlimited whip (below), apparently it's really eco. Feeling confident I went out and that Saturday and it was as expected. I had couple of even runs, even +20 run.

The following day it was nerfed, both the numbers of whips required was noticeably much higher and the eye oil dropped of the chart and it's been losses ever since. So forum fan boys please help what am I doing wrong?

Bear in mind I want to tame, this is what I want my entertainment to be (nice and cheap and cheerful, low risk stuff, with the backup of quality equipment, and tons of skills).

Anyway my skills 342K skills, 584 attributes.

Evader Level 49.51
Whipper Damage 47.61
Whipper Hit 46.44

Equipment:

Dominax Original Bolga Adjusted (unlimited) Maxed at Level 18 Whipper Damage (10/10)
Comes with 4% dominance

Artemic Ring Argumented 20% (works really well most dragons tamed first attempt).
Royal Chirin 20% taming skill gain (constant, not including other addition bonuses on skills)

Gremlin with 5B's plates removed (it's all I got).

This run: Mob tamed L6 Chirin Dragons

Full whip 210 peds,
Decay though 80.19
Armour 2.23
Total Cost 82.42

Loot 63.19
Add essence from pets sold to stable 1.14 peds
Total loot 64.33

Loss of this run 18.09 (actually one of the better runs, but playing fair for forum).

I usually run the whole whip, but I just lost interest tonight and stopped when it was obvious it would be same returns.

Sure its 18 ped not a big deal, but do I accept $1.8 loss per run, for doing what I want to do. Or how do I make that hunting/taming any better. Is my equipment and skills not good enough?

I could add an amp, but I think it might be too powerful, would that effect the eco. Or if the globals are blanket stopped (got 2 on the Saturday after buying the whip). Why is it the taming was fine on the first day, then all hunts after that got nerfed to poo? for Sunday Monday Tuesday and now Wednesday?

Is MA trying to force me off the mob? Why do I feel conned buying the whip that was supposed to help me?

Anyway back to 'just' training my pets, whip on ice unless the situation can be improved.

Looking forward to reading your replies.

Cheers

Rick
 
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I saw you globalling on mobs last weekend whilst I was hunting elsewhere and thinking "thought that guy tamed them not killed them" but I lost more than 18 ped so hey ho, thats how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

I had fun and a couple of small globals too :)
 
Mega said:
I saw you globalling on mobs last weekend whilst I was hunting elsewhere and thinking "thought that guy tamed them not killed them" but I lost more than 18 ped so hey ho, thats how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

I had fun and a couple of small globals too :)
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Sure you can get a global with a successful tame (just the default says "killed").

yeah I was approaching 200 ped loss when I called it quits.

Sure it's nothing like 500 ped down runs on prots, it's just the principle of situation.

Your told here: Hunt way below your level, get an eco weapon, stick to it. don't take risks.

It's still bollocks.

Sure I could kill 27 million five hundred and ninety six dragons and hope for that 2K multiplier on L6 dragon.....it might happen.....LOL.

Laters..smiles

Rick
 
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RickEngland said:
Sure I could kill 27 million five hundred and ninety six dragons and hope for that 2K multiplier on L6 dragon.....it might happen.....LOL.
Click to expand...

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. :yup:
 
Skills do not matter beyond the weapon's max (level 100 for non-SIB), whatever the level of the weapon +5 for SIB.


I don't know what you want here... before it was £100 per week was too much for your entertainment. Now it is $1.8 per "run" - an hour? - which is too much.

I think the question you need to ask yourself what you want to pay, per hour, for your entertainment and find an activity which suits. I'm happy spending £20 per hour, I don't in EU so all the better.

I don't know how someone who has played for so long has not grasped the core concepts of the game.
 
Aio said:
Skills do not matter beyond the weapon's max (level 100 for non-SIB), whatever the level of the weapon +5 for SIB.


I don't know what you want here... before it was £100 per week was too much for your entertainment. Now it is $1.8 per "run" - an hour? - which is too much.

I think the question you need to ask yourself what you want to pay, per hour, for your entertainment and find an activity which suits. I'm happy spending £20 per hour, I don't in EU so all the better.

I don't know how someone who has played for so long has not grasped the core concepts of the game.
Click to expand...

I guess I feel slightly miffed that I put my trust in a new 'adjusted' weapon, thinking it was the saviour when I should've known better. That's all really.

I know I pay to skill my dragons with no returns, I live with that and comfortable with it, because I understand the rules. I might not to happy about the fruit mafia, keeping food prices high, but that's EU. Maybe Ma could make pets find food whilst walking. A sort of even the ying and yang a bit more.

Maybe the core concepts of the game mean different things to different people. I certainly don't want to do trade, and I had good times with A105 for a while. Even found a ton of ESI's on cosmics before I opened my mouth on forum. So I do "get it" to a point Aio.

Like I say gutted the so called "eco" weapon didn't cut the mustard like we're sold here on forum, but you know like I've always said MA love to tweak and play with their own little pets (that being us).

I'll get a budget together to do my taming, but for now that will have to wait a month.

Laters

Rick

Ps: I'll tell you a little story Aio. When the damage enhancers came out for MF, I was one of the top MF skillers in the game. I was actually told and I will never say the name, 'we need to adjust your chips down'. There you go..ok. I'm not the fool you think I am, I just don't like being ripped off, when I know I have both the skill and equipment that does the job..."if" Ma stops playing under the hood.
 
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buy a viper whip and go for the bunnies so you won't feel the losses for a lot longer since mob is lower level.

Or, Alternatively, sell the whips you got and go spend more time and money on compets.
 
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It doesn't matter what you are doing...people are saying caraboks and even vixen been totally changed too...I have been getting 50% returns for weeks before I went on vacation...loot was more fucked than I ever seen.

I come back after a week and lose 2k on 4k ped bankroll cycling it ONCE over 2 days. Just been doing my normal stuff that is usually 90-95% returns, but it aint like that anymore.

Something changed...big time.
 
mastermesh said:
buy a viper whip and go for the bunnies so you won't feel the losses for a lot longer since mob is lower level.
Click to expand...

Might be worth it with unlimited moc. but they go for 1K peds. I wont run under 10/10. Besides dragons are lovely to tame. It makes me happy.

Sunsout Gunsout said:
It doesn't matter what you are doing...people are saying caraboks and even vixen been totally changed too...I have been getting 50% returns for weeks before I went on vacation...loot was more fucked than I ever seen.

I come back after a week and lose 2k on 4k ped bankroll cycling it ONCE over 2 days. Just been doing my normal stuff that is usually 90-95% returns, but it aint like that anymore.

Something changed...big time.
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It's very sad mate. I'm sure the CLD payouts are screwing the game up. I did say it would impact eventually. There're can't be more takers than givers.

All the ring bollocks really upset people with implied value. Capital losses have been bad, i.e. depreciation, Ma can't keep watering them down. I know a lot of ubers are just really p*ssed with everything.

I don't know mate, we hang in there, have a moan and hang in there again. It's a huge part of our life this game (well this virtual world), it would be a huge hole for many of us if it expired. I'll have to start watching telly or something....I cant do that. Sometimes we just feel like we need a cuddle....these days a lot more often...lol.

I'm praying MA can do something with compet to trigger the payouts. I went in too heavy on that. I think it will be another 6 months at least though.

Hang in there.

Rick
 
My understanding is if you don't trade it has to be loss. That over the long term you can recover cost and or make extra with selling for markup.

Have heard that sometimes things loot well and then go bad for awhile. Could problem be that and it go back to better TT returns after awhile? Or does it happen that when loot changes majorly on mob it is never back to what it was?















#space_flight ~ where pilots advertise to grow their business
 
On another matter look at this baby. Damn I love this dragon, even though it eats more than my real life dog and cat.

Rick

 
Yoshii Lem said:
My understanding is if you don't trade it has to be loss. That over the long term you can recover cost and or make extra with selling for markup.

Have heard that sometimes things loot well and then go bad for awhile. Could problem be that and it go back to better TT returns after awhile? Or does it happen that when loot changes majorly on mob it is never back to what it was?

#space_flight ~ where pilots advertise to grow their business
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I mean trade in the sense of standing around for hours buying and selling stuff. I can't be asked with that sh**. Often it involves ripping people off too, that's just not me.

I sell to auction if I've got "my own" looted stacks, and sell shrap at twin if running melee.

All is cool, just letting off some steam, my credit card is angry too...lol.

Rick
 
RickEngland said:
On another matter look at this baby. Damn I love this dragon, even though it eats more than my real life dog and cat.
Click to expand...

dogcat.jpg



:whip:
 
Loot ebbs and flows (resource caps). If you're looking for profit or break even every run, it won't happen. No matter what spectrum of dpp you are.. no matter how big of an ecofag you may be. A few days is not a big enough size for returns to be where they should for the activity you are doing.

You can reply and post your frustrations behind veiled passive aggressive digs to the people you are apparently asking for help, but the points have not changed. You're expecting something this game does not offer in the time frame you wish.
 
ah, seems i be not alone, and ppl check out the same situaten.
 
atomicstorm said:
Loot ebbs and flows (resource caps). If you're looking for profit or break even every run, it won't happen. No matter what spectrum of dpp you are.. no matter how big of an ecofag you may be. A few days is not a big enough size for returns to be where they should for the activity you are doing.

You can reply and post your frustrations behind veiled passive aggressive digs to the people you are apparently asking for help, but the points have not changed. You're expecting something this game does not offer in the time frame you wish.
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Yeah, but people don't want to hear that. They want you to tell them you secrets, how only certain people can hof and find special items, how MA pays players to say how great the game is, how players get inside information, how the sky is always falling and MA is going bankrupt.
 
Yes dragons have good appetites :laugh: mine eats a lot to :)















#space_flight ~ where pilots advertise to grow their business
 
Amp that whip, it will increase you're dpp a lot and it's not too much for em, also get predator or adj restoration chip it will save a few ped per run. I can provide logs of when I was camping them and devils if you like.
 
I had no idea you received loot while taming :laugh:. I guess, unfortunately, any activity connected to the loot pool will always have some sort of random element involved which generally is set up to create a loss.

Interesting thread.
 
matthew said:
I had no idea you received loot while taming :laugh:. I guess, unfortunately, any activity connected to the loot pool will always have some sort of random element involved which generally is set up to create a loss.

Interesting thread.
Click to expand...

Not only do you get loot as normal, you don't do any overkill ;)
 
Im going to be honest here; what most entropia players fail to realise is that you gain value in skills. Skill increase is a type of asset gain and every activity should be seen as an investment in your avatar. This is an extremely relevent fact in a niche profession such as taming, where the skills have very high markup. Your main focus when looking at profit/loss should be on how much value you gained in skills.

Looking at your setup and strategy it seems you have the right thought, skills and gear. Although I will add some things worth thinking about:

1) Taming is restricted to one lootpool and few amount of mobs at that lootpool. This can have both positive and negative effect on your return in a longterm perspective. You are going to feel the upswings and downswings in your return more than if you had the choice of changing areas. Many miners/hunters change areas in periods if the current lootpool is frequently dry.

2) Markup of loot is obviously an important fact for profit and if as you said that the eye oil has dropped in markup it will severely damage your return rate. You should think about if it is worth to change profession temporarily or see if the skillgain value is worth to continue even if the markup on the loot sucks.

Taming is as said very niche and restricted profession and I think it is a profession which is hard to have as a main profession. I hope you succeed with it and prove me wrong :)
 
XarcX said:
You should think about if it is worth to change profession temporarily or see if the skillgain value is worth to continue even if the markup on the loot sucks.
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What's nice about the whips, you don't necessarily need to completely change professions... Just go use them on non-tameable mobs like a regular hunting weapon...

or alternatively undress your avatar, put on something kinky and just hang out in apartment parties since all of them need someone with a whip, lol. ;)
 
slither said:
Not only do you get loot as normal, you don't do any overkill ;)
Click to expand...

This is what makes me really smile.

I've always said that damage is recorded, and the game pays out on that measure. I've never believed in finisher so to speak, because the "last" hit you give the mob is measured. The only way it pays is if you was using a rifle then switch to a pistol....then the system pays you on two skill uses (based on the gain on the less used skill). That's how it used to roll, and that's how finishers worked. But that's all changed under the hood anyway.

It's like when people used support killers not in team, and they kill 51% of the mob, they say they get 100% of the kill.....I don't believe it one bit.

Because if that was true you would get 100% loot of a tame when you tame the mob at 75% of it's HP. The twist and turn in the forum crack me up.

Although I say this again: This is not a whining thread about I want more loot, because I've stopped, and don't a f***k until next month. So I can't get a hof if I'm not hunting to get one. This is about doing exactly what the fan boys say, and proving it's still bollocks.

If MA measures your first run with a new weapon and they have an auto algorithm running that triggers an alarm and drops your returns (which I'm 100% convinced that's what going on under the hood). Then eco is completely meaningless, no matter how much kill you make.

Because the system then is only measuring your ability to continue, and pays out when it wants, not when you deserve it. So it's about what your prepared to loose on a monthly basis, not how good your equipment is....lol.

Whatever guys.....I'll do a depo in a month, I now know the rules of new 'Adjusted' weapons. My "expectations" have be realigned.

Good luck out there. Compet is getting better by the way, they're doing a good job, you should give it a crack.

Rick
 
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I've always said that damage is recorded, and the game pays out on that measure. I've never believed in finisher so to speak, because the "last" hit you give the mob is measured. The only way it pays is if you was using a rifle then switch to a pistol....then the system pays you on two skill uses (based on the gain on the less used skill). That's how it used to roll, and that's how finishers worked. But that's all changed under the hood anyway.
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I'm not sure what you're saying Rick, but if it's that overkill doesn't matter there's a simple test.

From previous tests that have been done we know that u get paid extra for doing additional damage (ie. shoot, let mob regen, then shoot again), we also know that hunting with uneco weapon pays bigger loot than eco weapon; What we don't know is if the full amount of regen or poor eco is paid back.

So find 50hp mob and kill 100 of them with a 1-4 dam weapon and record each loot, then do it with the biggest weapon you have that has similar eco so you do loads of overkill. What you'll find is that you get paid a similar amount per mob. Which means that either overkill is not paid back, or that it's stored in a pool and paid back in a lump sum at a later date.

It's like when people used support killers not in team, and they kill 51% of the mob, they say they get 100% of the kill.....I don't believe it one bit.

Because if that was true you would get 100% loot of a tame when you tame the mob at 75% of it's HP. The twist and turn in the forum crack me up.
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In example #1 the damage has been done and paid for, so the loot is full

In exampled #2 only 75% of dam has been paid for, so u get 75% loot.
 
slither said:
I'm not sure what you're saying Rick, but if it's that overkill doesn't matter there's a simple test.

From previous tests that have been done we know that u get paid extra for doing additional damage (ie. shoot, let mob regen, then shoot again), we also know that hunting with uneco weapon pays bigger loot than eco weapon; What we don't know is if the full amount of regen or poor eco is paid back.

So find 50hp mob and kill 100 of them with a 1-4 dam weapon and record each loot, then do it with the biggest weapon you have that has similar eco so you do loads of overkill. What you'll find is that you get paid a similar amount per mob. Which means that either overkill is not paid back, or that it's stored in a pool and paid back in a lump sum at a later date.

In example #1 the damage has been done and paid for, so the loot is full

In exampled #2 only 75% of dam has been paid for, so u get 75% loot.
Click to expand...

Sure 100% damage was done, although I believe the looter only took 51%, and the support shooters won't get their return until they go off on another hunt and loot a mob themselves.

It's like those guys that used to PVP each other in the rings, they knew they would get it back their ammo later on lootable hunts.

Actually that "personal" damage done, has been a mind f** for me for years, especially when thinking about shared. Also we don't know if MA has a multitude of scenarios running that throw us off the scent....funny.

I agree, remember those guys that used to drag mobs over server lines and let mobs regen, then kill to get hof multiplier on the server that had loot....lol. I don't know if they lost big or not, but they did get hofs.

I was thinking earlier and wondering if MA loads up mobs with loot, but if you drain that individuals mobs pool, then you could be in trouble. Maybe that was the problem.

All that said I truly believe we have a new loot algorithm under the hood now, because there're so many items, rings, buffs and pills the system can't cope on personal damage only anymore, so the simple answer is to measure returns and adjust. But maybe it goes too far.

Who knows mate, what ever MA do I'll try and stick to the same budget for the month (excluding investing in compet or whatever), so giving less game time for deposits made, has no real benefit for MA.

They did manage to get me to buy an adjusted weapon though....ha,ha,ha.

Rick
 
it could be easily done that the loot system adjusts itself. we pretty much know that the system checks the mob hp and your damage efficiency to return loot. when the system now remembers, lets say the last 1000 kills and checks the average eco of the hunters killing it, and then adjusts the return to fit that. when all people get more eco then the system pays out less as the average player needs less money to kill it but when there are lotss of piron guns shooting the mob the system pays out a little more to adjust to the lot more money spend. when now 10 hunter hunt a mob and 9 use a piron and the 10th uses an imk2 then the imk2 returns will be significantly higher as the system pays out more on average due to the huge money waste on the piron guns. when all 10 hunters use imk2 then the system pays out low on average and all get aroudn the same returns due to same eco and the variance will be lower (meaning less big swings). that would also explain the huge swings on kerbs as tons of players hunt them and a lot of the lower player ones dont really do it the eco way, resulting in higher swings but good average tt return for high eco players (numerous tests here have shown that tt profit on kerbs is easily possible with right eco gear)
 
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