Space-Bus-Lines (Automatic)

It would be nice to have regular travel services between the Planets - hassle free!

The Basic idea is that Spaceship owners can offer services between different Planets. Example: Caly <-> Ark, or Caly <-> FOMA...

The big ships can service inter-planet lines, the smaller ships can service the lines between Planet(s) and Moon(s) / Station(s).

• Each year there will be an auction for the different lines, such as Caly-Ark.
• The winner gets the exclusive right to offer an automatic service, such as each full hour Caly-Ark.
• The ship will be not available for the owner of the ship during the period of 1 year.
• There is a minimum ticket price, set by MA. The owner can charge an extra per ticket. The price can be set each month.
• The are no decay or fuel costs, the ship will run the line 1 year, no matter what.

Of cause, private flys, or services are still possible. Its just not that you could buy a ticket and get a ride...

This way the owner of such a line could get some reveneue by "giving away" his ship. If its a profit or loss would depend on marketing of the owner and the costs for the licence. This would also be an interessing opportunity for planet owner.

This isn't a horrible idea.

Kind of already exists with EFA and KISS daily warps... but more options throughout the day, or options at fixed times every hour would be neat, and kind of beneficial. You'd have to allow people to TP from planet to SS for free though in order for this to work...

And having a pilot on is annoying.. it would have to be automated for it to be worth the MS owners' time (i.e. no pilot required).

And the fee would have to make it worth it.. like 10 ped/ticket

Most MS owners have a daily warp flight schedule for a cut rate price. You may want to research these and reformulate your proposal.

http://www.efa.ms/
http://kronan-ms.info/
http://www.titans-of-space.de/

I doubt that MA would give them fuel/decay for something they are doing free today.

Sionkiewicz said:

Most MS owners have a daily warp flight schedule for a cut rate price. You may want to research these and reformulate your proposal.

http://www.efa.ms/
http://kronan-ms.info/
http://www.titans-of-space.de/

Click to expand...

Yes, I know. But this is not as simple as it sounds. You need to contact the pilot, or someone who knows the pilot...
Its not like jumping on a Bus.

Sionkiewicz said:

I doubt that MA would give them fuel/decay for something they are doing free today.

Click to expand...

Oh, its not that MA gives it for free.
MA would auction the Licenses each year. In return the ship owner who wins gets the line at zero decay/fuel costs.

Example: You win the line "Caly-Ark" for 10k PED. You would need to transport at last 2000 People in 1 year to cover the costs. Thats less than 6 People per day at 5 PED per ticket.

Rocket192 said:

This isn't a horrible idea.
And having a pilot on is annoying.. it would have to be automated for it to be worth the MS owners' time (i.e. no pilot required).

And the fee would have to make it worth it.. like 10 ped/ticket

Click to expand...

Oh, even 5 PED would do. And yes, there should be a "Bus-stop" on the planet from where you could just get on the flight and buy tickets.

And yes, no pilot required. The drawback is that you don´t get any skills.

There’s a huge market for interplanetary TP chips. I still think they will come to EU in some form sooner or later, probably when MA does something with space such as mining or something, so motherships don’t feel left out.
It’s not like it would need much coding either.

MA could get huge peds for auctioning such chips, especially if they had the ability to send a passenger (but not like a wormhole, that’s open to anyone that jumps in).

They might even skip that entirely and offer 10 ped standard teleporter fee (using standard teleporters to travel to other planets). Or even sell it for deeds, on a twist of Neverdies idea.

Let’s face it the cross planet delivery service in auction has been live a long while now, and the red quads can cater for fast travel to planets (planet surface too).
If anything MA are going down this road of opening up the travel market.

MA hinted to space update a while back, and I’m sure that will come with a ton of new ships. They’re more likely to go with something ‘new’ they can sell, than improve on something which is already owned.
I wouldn’t be surprised if MA bought in loads of asteroids that a spaceship would need to find a mine for rare resources, thus offering something to new and current space ship owners.

On the rare occasions I want to travel to another PP, I still use my L quad.

MA have always given an investor in something a couple of years to earn their money back, then they move on. That’s how the game has always rolled.

Rick

Bear said:

Yes, I know. But this is not as simple as it sounds. You need to contact the pilot, or someone who knows the pilot...
Its not like jumping on a Bus.

Click to expand...

Again, do the research. There are set times for these flights and people waiting to take the fares and facilitate the Summons to the ship. You do not need to know the pilot. You just need to know the schedule and look in #Space_Travel for the advertisements.

Bear said:

Oh, its not that MA gives it for free.
MA would auction the Licenses each year. In return the ship owner who wins gets the line at zero decay/fuel costs.

Example: You win the line "Caly-Ark" for 10k PED. You would need to transport at last 2000 People in 1 year to cover the costs. Thats less than 6 People per day at 5 PED per ticket.

Click to expand...

This will cost MA more than the $1k to program into the system. MA is not going to do it if it cost them or even if it was for free.

Bear said:

Oh, even 5 PED would do. And yes, there should be a "Bus-stop" on the planet from where you could just get on the flight and buy tickets.

And yes, no pilot required. The drawback is that you don´t get any skills.

Click to expand...

Most Pilots do not get skills from doing these runs. If they did, I wouldn't fly with them as they are so low in skills to even get them from just doing plain warps.

Again, Bear, you need to go back and do more research on this one. There is no way MA is going to do anything unless there is a big profit in it for them and there is just no profit in giving away anything for free.

RickEngland said:

MA have always given an investor in something a couple of years to earn their money back, then they move on. That’s how the game has always rolled.

Click to expand...

Except for the stables. Their investors got royally screwed by the slurry of pills, items and whatnot giving buffs, which followed only a few short months after the new pet system was released. Now they can't even justify to keep them stocked.

Anyways, on topic... We already have regular "bus" services. They just don't go every hour, but there are 2-3 going every day. If the market would support more, there would be more. Whether I like the whole setup is a different discussion, but as things are, I don't think you can do something "for the people" without stepping on the same slippery slope every socialist country does and begin with destroying investor confidence. Any system which is more convenient will take out of the motherships' business. We can democratically choose to want that, but then pretending we're not is just hypocrisy.

Sionkiewicz said:

Again, do the research. There are set times for these flights and people waiting to take the fares and facilitate the Summons to the ship. You do not need to know the pilot. You just need to know the schedule and look for the spam in all channels for the advertisements.

Click to expand...

FTFY, i've half the advertisers avatars on ignore now, pain in the rear when cyrene chat is filled up with Schedule flight messages, and they dont even flight to cyrene unless you pay for special pick up

San said:

....
Anyways, on topic... We already have regular "bus" services. They just don't go every hour, but there are 2-3 going every day. If the market would support more, there would be more. Whether I like the whole setup is a different discussion, but as things are, I don't think you can do something "for the people" without stepping on the same slippery slope every socialist country does and begin with destroying investor confidence. Any system which is more convenient will take out of the motherships' business. We can democratically choose to want that, but then pretending we're not is just hypocrisy.

Click to expand...

Well, there is no news in it that the usage of public transport mostly depends on 3 factors:
1. Schedule ; the higher the frequency, the more its used
2. Accessibility ; the less people have to walk to PT, the more they will use it
3. Price, the lower the price, the more its used

As with "investors" in RL and public transport , take a look at the USA and you know - the most shit PT "system" i have seen in any dev. country..

Sionkiewicz said:

...
This will cost MA more than the $1k to program into the system. MA is not going to do it if it cost them or even if it was for free.
....

Click to expand...

Cost for development: Yes, some coding ect... BUT, its a few tousand PED MA could make: Multiple Lines and Auction is every year.
Ship owners do not get screwed, only if they pay too much for the License or charge too much.
Every one would have a hassle free transport system

Needs some work but sounds alright

Bear said:

Ship owners do not get screwed, only if they pay too much for the License or charge too much.
Every one would have a hassle free transport system

Click to expand...

They will get screwed proportionally to their investments. Those who didn't bother with much upgrades after buying a ship and who believes that having to log out during flights is an acceptable level of service, they will be screwed the least if at all. Those who invested in their ships amounts comparable with the cost of the ships and offer 100% safe flights and atmospheric docking without the need to pay for SS teleporters to get to the planet, those will be screwed royally.

Now I'm just a humble passenger and perhaps would only benefit from changes like yours, but I know that if I silently watch others' interests getting screwed, there will be no one around to defend mine when it's my turn.

Svarog said:

They will get screwed proportionally to their investments. Those who didn't bother with much upgrades after buying a ship and who believes that having to log out during flights is an acceptable level of service, they will be screwed the least if at all. Those who invested in their ships amounts comparable with the cost of the ships and offer 100% safe flights and atmospheric docking without the need to pay for SS teleporters to get to the planet, those will be screwed royally.

Now I'm just a humble passenger and perhaps would only benefit from changes like yours, but I know that if I silently watch others' interests getting screwed, there will be no one around to defend mine when it's my turn.

Click to expand...

Maybe have different SI requirements for different flight lines.

The Jetman said:

FTFY, i've half the advertisers avatars on ignore now, pain in the rear when cyrene chat is filled up with Schedule flight messages, and they dont even flight to cyrene unless you pay for special pick up

Click to expand...

KISS does schedule pickups/Drop-offs on Cyrene, Toulan and NI, as a "by request", for the same price as the normal scheduled flights. Contacting the advertisers at the beginning of the flights is best to set this up.

Here is the Schedule to make it easier for you..

Bear said:

Cost for development: Yes, some coding ect... BUT, its a few tousand PED MA could make: Multiple Lines and Auction is every year.
Ship owners do not get screwed, only if they pay too much for the License or charge too much.
Every one would have a hassle free transport system

Click to expand...

A few thousand ped is a drop in the bucket to what they make off these warp vehicles. The warp drives alone cost more than that. Please, go back and do further research.

In the end, what are we trying to accomplish? What is the end goal? What extra service are we trying to create?

"It would be nice to have regular travel services between the Planets - hassle free!"

I'm all for it.

1. Give people money back for their ships.
2. rm space
3. put in free TPs between planets.
4. profit

Mac said:

"It would be nice to have regular travel services between the Planets - hassle free!"

I'm all for it.

1. Give people money back for their ships.
2. rm space
3. put in free TPs between planets.
4. profit

Click to expand...

Again, MA will never give up the revenue they get from space for nothing.

Sionkiewicz said:

Again, MA will never give up the revenue they get from space for nothing.

Click to expand...

What revenue

I do not fly through space very often but at present if seems more like "wasted space".

I think it would be great to have regular flight lines more frequently throughout the day, and I've often thought about a cooperative division of routes like this. However, no matter how many technical solutions you come up with, the main problem is there just aren't enough customers (or pilots for that matter) for it to work. We would need more reasons to go to space. The services currently in operation have been worked out over several years by supply and demand. If space is not going to be further developed (thanks Compets ) then reducing the cost of warps might not be a bad idea.

This whole thread is yet another thinly disguised 'let's have TP's between planets' dressed up as lets have automated services. Yet another thread saying you don't like time/expense/hassle of crossing space.
Really?? The name of the game is Entropia Universe..
' Universe (Definition) = the totality of known or supposed objects and phenomena throughout space; the cosmos'

If people want to play a game without space between planets, then play one that is all on a single world, then remember to complain about the time it takes to travel from Town to Town.

Now back on topic..
Just because some players don't like the existing system of space and warp provider services, you want to change things. Yet you have not yourself invested in space and show a very simplistic view of how any ships operate.

Why should a spaceship owner, who has made a considerable ped investment then also have to bid on and pay for rights they already have ?

Why should owners that already have those rights have them taken away, and if so how will they be compensated ?
and please don't say MA buyback, cos the Deed price is all MA would pay and that is 1 pec.

Do you realise that many spaceships already offer warp services (VIP) at all times of the day and night ? This service would collapse that trade. What right do other users of the game have to completely wreck the investments and businesses of other players?

Assuming it could be set up and automated (and that would need a complete re-write of how ships guest lists etc work) then picture this. Once an hour ship X leaves Caly for Ark, you miss it by 5 mins cos the kid just puked.
You have a team hunt on Ark and you need to be there, like now !!
Well with your proposal you would be completely screwed.. why because you have put all the VIP providers out of business. So enjoy the wait, and hope to goodness there isn't a phone call at the wrong moment.

Also while many of the flights would probably be fairly quiet, during busy periods such as mass events, traffic through space is much greater. How do you expect MA to handle all the requests, a queue ? handling of simultaneous requests, by a company that counts on it's fingers badly. Would you then blame the owner if it all goes wrong and you are left behind, even though it would in fact be MA running the service.

Also what about those ships that are used for different things at different times of the day.
Scheduled warps, VIP warps, Hunting, skilling. Do you really believe you can restrict their trade by saying only ship X may operate that route and not affect their ability to make a little back on their investments.

And yes I have a vested interest in space, indeed like many others I would welcome some changes to make it a more interesting, challenging and fun part of EU (as opposed to the gap between planets), but you don't hear those of us in space complain about the landlubbers on planet, including those that have never left the planet of their birth. We don't say all avatars should be forced to travel in space at regular intervals in order to give us trade. We accept that everyone plays this game in their own way.
To stay on planet,
to enter pvp space in your own vehicle and risk being looted,
to use a warpship in order to reduce that risk, through logging off (while it still exists) or by reliance on the ships higher Structural Integrity, gunners, repairers etc
to use a scheduled warp (bus service at bus prices)
or VIP warp (Taxi at taxi prices)
It is your choice, the options are many, the service not guaranteed since we do all have lives, sleep eat and .... But the various ship owners have invested a lot of money and a lot of time to facilitate travel at very reasonable prices (Don't believe me ? check out the price MA charged before spaceships to TP you to other planets), please respect their efforts.

Entropia Universe of TPs

Sionkiewicz said:

A few thousand ped is a drop in the bucket to what they make off these warp vehicles. The warp drives alone cost more than that. Please, go back and do further research.

In the end, what are we trying to accomplish? What is the end goal? What extra service are we trying to create?

Click to expand...

Enlighten me. What does a fight costs in TT (fuel & decay)?

There are 5 "active" Planets
Space-Bus Lines to auction each year would be:

1. Caly <-> Ark
2. Caly <-> Tulan
3. Caly <-> Rocktopia
4. Caly <-> Cyrene
5. Ark <-> Tulan
6. Ark <-> Rocktropia
7. Ark <-> Cyrene
8. Tulan <-> Cyrene
9. Tulan <-> Rocktorpia
10. Rocktopia <-> Cyrene

Those are 10 main connections. At 5 PED per ticket, it would require 6 People to transport / day on 1 Line to cover auction costs of around 10k PED. The Profit would be 1k PED.

If a shipowner decides that his line costs 10PED and he manages to get 4 People per day on his line, the Profit would be 4.6k PED (Auction costs again 10k PED)

The income for MA would be 100k PED /year if all lines are auctioned for 10k PED.

I somehow doubt that MA makes that much income from the decay and fuel. For shipowners it would be a nice way put their ships into use instead of letting them float in space.

Even with a Space-Bus service, you could still call a "Cab" and get your private fight whenever you want (and get a pilot on the phone).

Beside, I think it would be a nice addion to the game and its feeling to have such an activity. It would bring more life into the game.

Bear said:

Enlighten me. What does a fight costs in TT (fuel & decay)?

There are 5 "active" Planets
Space-Bus Lines to auction each year would be:

1. Caly <-> Ark
2. Caly <-> Tulan
3. Caly <-> Rocktopia
4. Caly <-> Cyrene
5. Ark <-> Tulan
6. Ark <-> Rocktropia
7. Ark <-> Cyrene
8. Tulan <-> Cyrene
9. Tulan <-> Rocktorpia
10. Rocktopia <-> Cyrene

Those are 10 main connections. At 5 PED per ticket, it would require 6 People to transport / day on 1 Line to cover auction costs of around 10k PED. The Profit would be 1k PED.

If a shipowner decides that his line costs 10PED and he manages to get 4 People per day on his line, the Profit would be 4.6k PED (Auction costs again 10k PED)

The income for MA would be 100k PED /year if all lines are auctioned for 10k PED.

I somehow doubt that MA makes that much income from the decay and fuel. For shipowners it would be a nice way put their ships into use instead of letting them float in space.

Even with a Space-Bus service, you could still call a "Cab" and get your private fight whenever you want (and get a pilot on the phone).

Beside, I think it would be a nice addion to the game and its feeling to have such an activity. It would bring more life into the game.

Click to expand...

what if Ship X has Caly -> Ark contract, but Ship Y Decides to play a dirty game undercutting the ticket price and stealing all the customers

Ship X -10k and lost use of ship for a year

plus can pirates shoot down or hijack the contract ships? should be able to still, maybe just hard as the contract ship gets a free AI Armed guard that loots like a normal mob

Bear said:

Enlighten me. What does a fight costs in TT (fuel & decay)?

Click to expand...

Since I do not own a warp ship, I don't have that exact info. I know Warp engines are at a premium as of late at about 1K each but this proposal would replace that all with a 10k bill which is only applicable while the ship is in the bus service.

Do a VIP or repair runs? Add that to the bill.
Take her out for a hunting party? Add that to the bill.

But I still think the re-design costs far outweigh the benefit MA would see... But hey, what do I know.. I just do Application Management for a living.

Bear said:

There are 5 "active" Planets
Space-Bus Lines to auction each year would be:

1. Caly <-> Ark
2. Caly <-> Tulan
3. Caly <-> Rocktopia
4. Caly <-> Cyrene
5. Ark <-> Tulan
6. Ark <-> Rocktropia
7. Ark <-> Cyrene
8. Tulan <-> Cyrene
9. Tulan <-> Rocktorpia
10. Rocktopia <-> Cyrene

Those are 10 main connections. At 5 PED per ticket, it would require 6 People to transport / day on 1 Line to cover auction costs of around 10k PED. The Profit would be 1k PED.

If a shipowner decides that his line costs 10PED and he manages to get 4 People per day on his line, the Profit would be 4.6k PED (Auction costs again 10k PED)

The income for MA would be 100k PED /year if all lines are auctioned for 10k PED.

I somehow doubt that MA makes that much income from the decay and fuel. For shipowners it would be a nice way put their ships into use instead of letting them float in space.

Even with a Space-Bus service, you could still call a "Cab" and get your private fight whenever you want (and get a pilot on the phone).

Beside, I think it would be a nice addion to the game and its feeling to have such an activity. It would bring more life into the game.

Click to expand...

So for a warp service to break even from the yearly license they need to get 4-6 passengers a day. Not profit, just break even?

How will pirate attacks be handled with no pilot inn the seat? Will pirates not be able to attack these vehicles while in the service? If so, then they will be hitting all the other vehicles even harder making VIP service more expensive or even cost prohibitive.

There will be no Cab to call as they will cease to exist and those that have their crafts in a service are not going to pull them out to service you.

Sorry Bear, but the plan sucks. It's not a nice addition to the game. It's another way for MA to suck ped out of the player's pockets and will only succeed in killing off the guys that are barely making it today.

Consumers want choice. As soon as they get it they flee from monopolies.
Price increases and service decreases with monopolies.


As for people who would suggest to us if we don't like space travel we should play another game you might want to think on this: Some of us were playing this game before there was space. People have a right to express how they want to travel. There is nothing unfair or nefarious about people wanting a rapid convenient way to travel.

It would be better to go to option of teleporting planet to planet then this monopoly idea. Monopoly removes choice. Increasing options give more choice = win for consumer.















#space_flight ~ where pilots and players meet

The Jetman said:

what if Ship X has Caly -> Ark contract, but Ship Y Decides to play a dirty game undercutting the ticket price and stealing all the customers

Ship X -10k and lost use of ship for a year

plus can pirates shoot down or hijack the contract ships? should be able to still, maybe just hard as the contract ship gets a free AI Armed guard that loots like a normal mob

Click to expand...

Sure, someone could try.
But if there is a "Bus Stop" with Ticket sale (at Port Atlantis for example) and direct Transport up to the Space-Bus. A flight every hour on which you can count and a Ticketprice of 10PED.... I like to see those "undercutters".

My idea might not be perfect, but I would like such a service. As I see it now, the idea has no loophole, but a risk for the bidding party. If you pay too much for the license or ask too much for a ticket, you might get undercut. But nobody is foced to pay "too much". My numbers are just examples.

Yoshii Lem said:

Consumers want choice. As soon as they get it they flee from monopolies.
Price increases and service decreases with monopolies.


As for people who would suggest to us if we don't like space travel we should play another game you might want to think on this: Some of us were playing this game before there was space. People have a right to express how they want to travel. There is nothing unfair or nefarious about people wanting a rapid convenient way to travel.

It would be better to go to option of teleporting planet to planet then this monopoly idea. Monopoly removes choice. Increasing options give more choice = win for consumer.

space_flight ~ where pilots and players meet

Click to expand...

There is no monopol.
There is no monopol like every one is free to take the Bus (if there is one!!) or take a taxi or limousine...

At the moment we have rather unconfortable taxis and expensive limousines. And yes, you could take your own crapy "car" and take for ever to go from one planet to an other. TPs from planet to planet would be just lame...

Sionkiewicz said:

Since I do not own a warp ship, I don't have that exact info. I know Warp engines are at a premium as of late at about 1K each but this proposal would replace that all with a 10k bill which is only applicable while the ship is in the bus service.

Click to expand...

So why do you diss my idea and tell me to do my research. Does not sound you know better?

Sionkiewicz said:

Do a VIP or repair runs? Add that to the bill.
Take her out for a hunting party? Add that to the bill.

Click to expand...

? There are plenty ship doing nothing - just dead in space... VIP runs and hunting will still be there, probably on the same level as before.

Sionkiewicz said:

But I still think the re-design costs far outweigh the benefit MA would see... But hey, what do I know.. I just do Application Management for a living.

Click to expand...

I don´t know how complicated it would be for MA. They will know - neither do I know nor do you. My idea is not a full blown business proposal for MA. I am asking the comunity what they think of the idea. Construktive input is of cause welcome.

Sionkiewicz said:

So for a warp service to break even from the yearly license they need to get 4-6 passengers a day. Not profit, just break even?

Click to expand...

With the example numbers given, you profit around 5k if: You pay 10k for the license, transport around 4 people / day at a ticket price of 10PED.

How much is a big ship? 50k? 100k? .. at 100k it would be 5% ROI. Better than a dead ship in space...

Sionkiewicz said:

How will pirate attacks be handled with no pilot inn the seat? Will pirates not be able to attack these vehicles while in the service? If so, then they will be hitting all the other vehicles even harder making VIP service more expensive or even cost prohibitive.

Click to expand...

Good point. What is your idea?

Sionkiewicz said:

There will be no Cab to call as they will cease to exist and those that have their crafts in a service are not going to pull them out to service you.

Click to expand...

Others talk about the risk to be undercut. Thats a valid point - and as you can see there is a lot of creativity where things change and new chances open up.

Sionkiewicz said:

Sorry Bear, but the plan sucks. It's not a nice addition to the game. It's another way for MA to suck ped out of the player's pockets and will only succeed in killing off the guys that are barely making it today.

Click to expand...

Well, before this you talked about MA "would not make enough money" - what now? Will they fill their pockets or go bankcrupt?

Bear said:

There is no monopol.
There is no monopol like every one is free to take the Bus (if there is one!!) or take a taxi or limousine...

At the moment we have rather unconfortable taxis and expensive limousines. And yes, you could take your own crapy "car" and take for ever to go from one planet to an other. TPs from planet to planet would be just lame...

Click to expand...

I think you are missing the point that the MS owners are already running bus services for the price you list today(Just not on an hourly basis). Again, let me ask you to go back an do the research on the costs before trying to move forward with this because you have in your mind that there is a vast amount of customers wanting to travel everyday which, from my experience, do not exist. Even with no decay and no pirate attacks, I still think most would have a hard time making any money on this.

With all disputes and quarrels between space factions, note how they all have united in their opinions against this proposal

Bear said:

Well, before this you talked about MA "would not make enough money" - what now? Will they fill their pockets or go bankcrupt?

Click to expand...

No, they choose not to take on an effort that will not bring on a big enough profit to justify itself. This is simple business and how you avoid going bankrupt.