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Wave form / Wave loot theory. What the heck is it ?

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R4tt3xx

I want to believe
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Alexis Sky Greenstar
I have seen many posts and had conversations about this "loot theory" but I have not gotten a decent answer on what it is or how it exactly is supposed to work.

Can someone explain it to a complete noob please... Thanks....
 
R4tt3xx said:
I have seen many posts and had conversations about this "loot theory" but I have not gotten a decent answer on what it is or how it exactly is supposed to work.

Can someone explain it to a complete noob please... Thanks....
Click to expand...

Wave loot is, rare loot: there is a limit on how much can drop and every +/-45mins the loot refreshes and for example lets say there is a cap on 20 bones dropping all the those bones will drop on that loot refresh. Timing waves means you get drop a big share of the loot for minimum hunting effort.

Wave Form, is the theory that the loot follows a sinewave. Loot will go minus on a mob but should swing up before back down. Its a matter of watching loot on EL and trying to jump in on a peak. I hope thats the feeling, i don't lend myself much to that theory of guarenteed peaks and troughs that can be tracked
 
The Jetman said:
Wave loot is, rare loot: there is a limit on how much can drop and every +/-45mins the loot refreshes and for example lets say there is a cap on 20 bones dropping all the those bones will drop on that loot refresh. Timing waves means you get drop a big share of the loot for minimum hunting effort.

Wave Form, is the theory that the loot follows a sinewave. Loot will go minus on a mob but should swing up before back down. Its a matter of watching loot on EL and trying to jump in on a peak. I hope thats the feeling, i don't lend myself much to that theory of guarenteed peaks and troughs that can be tracked
Click to expand...


So its a faucet basically with the trigger point being the second you start to open it, as soon as it hits its peak, the faucet starts closing again till its time to re-open.

Is this the basic idea ?
 
R4tt3xx said:
So its a faucet basically with the trigger point being the second you start to open it, as soon as it hits its peak, the faucet starts closing again till its time to re-open.

Is this the basic idea ?
Click to expand...

kinda yeah, thats why ppl charge into the new events like merry mayham. on the halloween event iirc 2 UL jag pieces dropped in the first minute
 
Do you know if the wave effects all areas at the same time or is it staggered, effecting area after area in a sequence ?
 
R4tt3xx said:
Do you know if the wave effects all areas at the same time or is it staggered, effecting area after area in a sequence ?
Click to expand...

if you read the post about wave loot there is some discussion in there. its related to the server coming back online

Svarog said:
The time is not fixed, it's not ":00 +/- 10 min", it's each 40-45 counting from the servers' restart.
Click to expand...

can't say regarding servers,, probably the same tho
 
"Wave" is the termed name because the items drop in "waves" i.e., all at once over a short period.

How it works? Don't really want to post this but there's so much mis-information around...



To elaborate on the timing loop;

Obviously the segments for ammo, shrapnel, and basic oil are 100% of the loop. Then you have "windows" where items can appear, i.e. with the mushrooms, they have a 20minute window around the hour of time (10:50-11:10 for example).

To also get the item, you have to hit the correct value of loot (you can't get a GNA, for example, in a loot value lower than 5ped).

The second part, why unL's drop quickly after VUs/events starting (and something which I find far more damaging than the principle of timing drops (apart from the predictability) is that as soon as the item cap is raised, those items are available to loot. So if in the picture example there was 1 mod fap added, it would not take very long at all (on a popular mob, just 1 run through the timing loop) until the mod fap was looted.

This is where MA should concentrate on alterations. But I'm told I'm wrong by many others so...
 
Ok so the full cycle length is +- 45 minutes, starting from the restart of a server.

It used to be 15 minutes back in the day, on the hour every hour. I could also get a mining hit by predicting where loot would "move" to after I dropped a prove.(It was sqrt(minute)*radius)

Thanks for the info..
 
Aio said:
"Wave" is the termed name because the items drop in "waves" i.e., all at once over a short period.

How it works? Don't really want to post this but there's so much mis-information around...



To elaborate on the timing loop;

Obviously the segments for ammo, shrapnel, and basic oil are 100% of the loop. Then you have "windows" where items can appear, i.e. with the mushrooms, they have a 20minute window around the hour of time (10:50-11:10 for example).

To also get the item, you have to hit the correct value of loot (you can't get a GNA, for example, in a loot value lower than 5ped).

The second part, why unL's drop quickly after VUs/events starting (and something which I find far more damaging than the principle of timing drops (apart from the predictability) is that as soon as the item cap is raised, those items are available to loot. So if in the picture example there was 1 mod fap added, it would not take very long at all (on a popular mob, just 1 run through the timing loop) until the mod fap was looted.

This is where MA should concentrate on alterations. But I'm told I'm wrong by many others so...
Click to expand...

If the trigger point is on time index 0 ie when everything starts, your chart is 90 degrees out of phase :)
 
R4tt3xx said:
If the trigger point is on time index 0 ie when everything starts, your chart is 90 degrees out of phase :)
Click to expand...

The chart is only there for people who like visual representations.

I have no idea what the timing cycle length is, or at what points during the cycle the windows open:

t=45 i=0
t=45 i=45
t=90 i=0,45,90
t=90 i=45,90
t=270 i=0,45,90,135,180,225,270

etc.

I'm sure those who are actually hunting by waves would be able to point out specific timing windows. It's a moot point however as there is so much rage on the forum about it MA will either alter the timings (so people are stumped for a couple months) or change to a randomized system (which will be the death of markup).
 
cycles are 40-85 mins, for ex at marcimex black paint can tell u the wave loot started :) but the mushroom can drop before this paint sometimes
 
I dont know why MA does it that way...

I would split the server into different cells and run randomly thru the cells assigning an ultra high loot time to each for a few minutes. An upside to doing this, it will be a lot more difficult to even figure out the cycle as it is not divisible by 60.
 
A simple fix for me, would be to introduce a quick loot-order-randomization applied every server refresh (tuesday):

ItemsTime Segment %RAND
Common250.5749
Common 2250.9647
Common 3250.6106
Uncommon100.5445
Uncommon 2100.3714
Semi-Rare30.1716
Rare1.50.5777
Ultra-Rare0.50.9319

Organise the loot order by smallest->largest on the RAND function. Then just run this function each Tuesday.

It doesn't solve the item cap / insta-drop issue, but it sorts the wave prediction out.
 
Alina said:
cycles are 40-85 mins, for ex at marcimex black paint can tell u the wave loot started :) but the mushroom can drop before this paint sometimes
Click to expand...

Black paint ?
Mushroom ?
Marcimex ?

I am assuming black paint and mushrooms are items and Marcimex is a location. Am I correct ?
 
R4tt3xx said:
Black paint ?
Mushroom ?
Marcimex ?

I am assuming black paint and mushrooms are items and Marcimex is a location. Am I correct ?
Click to expand...

Correct (marcimex is a mob). The drop of Black paint coincides with the mushroom drops. Interestingly, they're both exactly 1.00 PED TT, which may allude to the way MA organises their droplists ;)
 
I went back to an old mining post from "The Night-bird" that mentioned a timer that if you predicted correctly would result in mining loot. So I used a web based metronome, set it to 64 beats per minute, 8 beats per cycle, accented beat 7 and started it at the beginning of the next minute.

Each time I would hear the accented beat, I would wait and time the next beat, on which I would click my mouse. I cant tell if it worked or not but I did acquire a 300+ ped blaus global while doing it, bout 100m away from the treasure island TP.

Other findings that I found odd was finding ores behind me where I had previously probed and found none. If I had to take a guess, the refresh rate must have been extremely high when I mined.

To be honest, I really did not expect it to work, but it may have merit and is related to this as it too is time based.

Personally I hate time based systems and hope that MA finds a way to get rid of them completely.
 
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With the cat out of the bag, it's a miracle the CLD's payout isn't < 1.0 yet, with everyone ceasing any activity between waves :)
 
Svarog said:
With the cat out of the bag, it's a miracle the CLD's payout isn't < 1.0 yet, with everyone ceasing any activity between waves :)
Click to expand...

Personally I hate the idea of waves. I want to plug values into Excel and go mining, just like I did before...

Come to think of it I did have to change the starting quadrant every 45 minutes.

Quadrant 1 orientation x:+ y:+
Quadrant 2 orientation x:+ y:-
Quadrant 3 orientation x:- y:-
Quadrant 4 orientation x:- y:+

Of course this existed in the days of veins... Ah the good old days !!
 
Aio said:
"Wave" is the termed name because the items drop in "waves" i.e., all at once over a short period.

How it works? Don't really want to post this but there's so much mis-information around...



To elaborate on the timing loop;

Obviously the segments for ammo, shrapnel, and basic oil are 100% of the loop. Then you have "windows" where items can appear, i.e. with the mushrooms, they have a 20minute window around the hour of time (10:50-11:10 for example).

To also get the item, you have to hit the correct value of loot (you can't get a GNA, for example, in a loot value lower than 5ped).

The second part, why unL's drop quickly after VUs/events starting (and something which I find far more damaging than the principle of timing drops (apart from the predictability) is that as soon as the item cap is raised, those items are available to loot. So if in the picture example there was 1 mod fap added, it would not take very long at all (on a popular mob, just 1 run through the timing loop) until the mod fap was looted.

This is where MA should concentrate on alterations. But I'm told I'm wrong by many others so...
Click to expand...

Youre not wrong.
 
R4tt3xx said:
I went back to an old mining post from "The Night-bird"
Click to expand...

It was amusing that what he was saying sounded like a complete fruitcake idea. Until you'd see him mining :laugh: Never went that way tho, would neeed some sort of auto calculation to not have my brain evaporate in fumes.

R4tt3xx said:
I would split the server into different cells and run randomly thru the cells assigning an ultra high loot time to each for a few minutes. An upside to doing this, it will be a lot more difficult to even figure out the cycle as it is not divisible by 60.
Click to expand...

That's how it works, just that the most discussed are the mobs which drop mushrooms, which are one of the most sought-after consumables now, for upgrades. Is not like you have same timings for all rares or cycles same lengths on all mobs. Or weapons.

Aio said:
But I'm told I'm wrong by many others so...
Click to expand...

Hey don't play the victim :laugh:

Exercise: go to Elife, look on "rares" for Tiger (how the f_ I ended up having a fetish for one of the rarest is another discussion). Explain via tt-cap. Is not this universal-valid explanation.
 
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Kerham said:
Hey don't play the victim :laugh:
Exercise: go to Elife, look on "rares" for Tiger (how the f_ I ended up having a fetish for one of the rarest is another discussion). Explain via tt-cap. Is not this universal-valid explanation.
Click to expand...

You picked a nice easy one for me to explain :D It's an unL so will work on a item cap rather than TT cap. But looking at the mobs which dropped the parts.. and forgetting the "event" mobs like Mayhem:

Logged in EL (Gloves, Shins, Feet):

Equus, Globster, Mulmun

Not logged (Harness, Thighs, Arms, Helmet):

Longu, Rextelum, Neconu, Beacon Missions, Daspletor

The hunt rarity is the issue here - the ones which haven't dropped in years are in the lootlists of mobs which are extensively hunted. The ones which have dropped recently are in the lootlists of rare mobs.

In fact, a lot of the recent tiger drops have been in mayhem events (not surprising they turn up, mobs are hunted heavily).

Finally, Tiger may have a very small relative loot time period. It may be very difficult to hit an unL armour drop dead on, especially on a mob which doesn't have a huge turnover (less looting events per second).

Now, compare this with the recent Halloween Mayhem. It was almost impossible to get an item after the first few hours, because the looting event frequency was so high, that all the items were drained (hit their caps) very quickly. Entropia is full of item hoarders, so even tt shit like human skulls were not possible to acquire after the first hour.
 
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