Quest for ATH Log

Alina said:

in my eyes your overall tt is still to high, it will go down to 90-91% , so u have to expect another 15k loss

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I respectfully disagree.. something change a year ago or so that enabled longterm tt profits (or close to it) when mining indoors.. maybe it's just getting lucky? I know i'm certainly not the highest TT % miner in game currently.. there are others around 98% and one I know is over 100%. If they wish to post here or anywhere else that's up to them.


Either way come watch me piss away 8000 ped in one night! Ore dropping hell until I pass out!

https://www.twitch.tv/rocket192

Well since i stop play dont care keep this info with me anymore

People call waves/good day / bad day / whatever want call

But system prety stupid and simple

If alternative sales trend going up and every hour auction become empty wtf going happen?
Alternative pump out , more Hitrate or Big large claims

To sales trend going up whats fuck need happens? crafters of course its awalys be backbone for hunters and miners

But guess what? since MA introduce Explosive many crafters stop buy stuffs to just gamble , because now you can play at TT level without hunter and miners

Its lead us to shirink pool you can push and push and you going get fucked you cant cycle anymore same ammount you did or anyone did "ore pools" dont support anymore MA have cap in all stuffs even lysterium

Best advice i can give everyone still minning , take off amp and go no amp because economy is broken , even near dead , I know after you spend whole years with amp , increase cycle take back to no amp is pain in ass its why i stop play

Link between minning -> crafter near null but its not crafters fault , its MA fault dont give better tools/item/weapon/armor to crafters with decent UL BP drops still put in mobs/event things and leave craft to dust other point people complain about MU but dont like pay MU , i awalys pick L finder if can affoard because its my way to show support to crafter , if crafter can profit on MU , indirect he going buy my stuffs and can profit as well

RIP - 8yr miner

I've been pushing for new armor, fap, tool, and weapon bps for years now.. or just take hunting loot and make bps for it. Yet nothing happens.

Maybe I'll put in a few support cases? Either way it doesn't matter too much. I'll be moving to hunting in the near future

Rocket192 said:

I've been pushing for new armor, fap, tool, and weapon bps for years now.. or just take hunting loot and make bps for it. Yet nothing happens.

Maybe I'll put in a few support cases? Either way it doesn't matter too much. I'll be moving to hunting in the near future

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That's 5 ped in the jar.

atomicstorm said:

That's 5 ped in the jar.

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At this rate I'll go broke.

Shit.

Returns are continuing to suck ass.

191k tt in at less than 83% tt out..

If I don't even out by the end of April I'm quitting EU and doing something more valuable with my time. I likely won't return unless there are drastic changes down the line.

Golf mini tour starts at the end of the month anyways, I can't be in a bad mindset while I'm playing.

Rocket192 said:

Returns are continuing to suck ass.

191k tt in at less than 83% tt out..

If I don't even out by the end of April I'm quitting EU and doing something more valuable with my time. I likely won't return unless there are drastic changes down the line.

Golf mini tour starts at the end of the month anyways, I can't be in a bad mindset while I'm playing.

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mining on 4-5% tax very smart my friend

"this game is a joke" , "its only luck"

Alina said:

mining on 4-5% tax very smart my friend

"this game is a joke" , "its only luck"

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Monria is 0% tax... hell is 2.5% tax. my occasional trips to AU and very very rarely Foma wouldn't have too much effect in the tax debate. regardless of what "longterm" tt return averages are nearly 200k at 3 ped/drop without a meaningful multiplier shouldn't be something that can happen.

Especially as I'm mixing indoors and outdoors now. If it was 200k purely indoors I would've been broke a long time ago.

Regardless... I'm still mining.

Update:

Posting my lifetime numbers on the first page of the log, not just my numbers since going indoors.

So.... indoors is on hold..

Was testing a theory.. but I don't have the bankroll or the balls to continue testing. Sitting at ~86% TT return for April. This would be my third straight month without a reasonable tt return. I may be equalizing TT-wise, but I think i just outmined my own bankroll and thus had to leave indoors at a huge deficit only to hit two ubers. Whether or not they could have been towers is debatable and impossible to know..

Here's what I do know:

1) there's a big bankroll lesson to be learned here... and unfortunately, because of how the economy is, a 30-40k pedcard just isn't sufficient for 3 ped/drop indoors. This is a combination of first, lack of markup, and second, lack of resource availability which makes large hofs prohibitive. bringing me to number 2.

2) Resource availability and demand is the single largest problem with miningThis is most easily noticable on the hof board over recent weeks after gamblers tore up foma and AU pushing the tracker to 700k. Sadly, the demand for resources is nowhere near enough to keep get those peds back in the pool. I suspect the stockpiles are slowly being consumed, but there's still a huge oversupply problem leading to fewer towers. In a perfect world, MA would do something about this, but I can't think of anything that wouldn't destroy their revenues. The most lucrative solution for them is to put shrapnel in mining loot, which would also enable miners to get reasonable returns if they choose to go indoors. Conversely, the tt return of mining would need to be adjusted to reflect that of hunting.. i.e. 94-98% tt. Right now tt over 92% is only possible even resource demand and consumption is nearly equal to the rate of production by mining.

3) This has been the worst four-month stretch for return not only for myself, but for many other players as well. Upon talking to some uber hunters, life is not easy for them anymore. Upon talking to other high-cycle miners, something is just different in multiplier distribution and payout patterns. It used to be fairly predictable and even exploitable to some degree.

That's all for now.. I'll continue to mine, track my returns, and update the log for the sake of collecting more data and statistics, but the days of big hits are over.

The Good

the tracker has been declining rapidly over the last week and falling to normal levels. This is fairly normal for the time of year, and mining is typically in it's most profitable state between May and October. Either people aren't playing, aren't gambling, or the markups have gotten so bad that your money is better spent elsewhere because mining is boring. My guess is a combination of all three.

Interesting idea about the shrapnel. I also thought of something similar, such as getting 25% ore recovery and 75% "tailings".

I don't like that system though. I hate that so much of hunting loot is shrapnel and ammo, and the end result didn't improve MUs much.

Even if "MU" did come up, it would just be hollow, when you figure 10p MU on 100p TT ore / 10p MU on 25p TT ore with 75p of tailings, the result is the same, except a higher reflected "MU" on ores. It might get a handle on the oversaturation of resources. But if I look at oils from hunting, the short term effect that shrapnel had on supply has long since worn off.

SpeedMetalVai said:

Interesting idea about the shrapnel. I also thought of something similar, such as getting 25% ore recovery and 75% "tailings".

I don't like that system though. I hate that so much of hunting loot is shrapnel and ammo, and the end result didn't improve MUs much.

Even if "MU" did come up, it would just be hollow, when you figure 10p MU on 100p TT ore / 10p MU on 25p TT ore with 75p of tailings, the result is the same, except a higher reflected "MU" on ores. It might get a handle on the oversaturation of resources. But if I look at oils from hunting, the short term effect that shrapnel had on supply has long since worn off.

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I think average markup per run would remain constant... markup values would just inflate.. however a massive chunk of multipliers would likely be "shrapnel"

But if we could promote grinding and farming without harming resource availability/demand I'd be all for it. As long as they didn't make it too common we'd be fine.. maybe 30% of mining loot is filler "shrapnel"

alternatively, the other solution is to change the EP bp requirements on III and IV. Combined with addition of new weapon/armor/tool bps that are superior to hunting looted weapons/armors/tools.. but that would hurt MA so they won't touch it.

MA knows there is a resource problem.. they just figure people can go mine lyst and oil and the rest will take care of itself. but if you're not gambling, then you're probably not mining lyst and oil.. hence the problem.

Posting April's losses tomorrow.

Still under 90% tt for three months running. If things haven't improved by may 10-14 or so... I'm going to stop. Too much time invested every week to get sub-90% returns.

Also selling mod excavator TT+3.2k

Rocket192 said:

Posting April's losses tomorrow.

Still under 90% tt for three months running. If things haven't improved by may 10-14 or so... I'm going to stop. Too much time invested every week to get sub-90% returns.

Also selling mod excavator TT+3.2k

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Hi bro,

Sorry to hear that your overall TT return still under 90%. I know how it feels...

Hope you will get an uber hof before May 14

PS: Also, glad to chat with you again in game

Mmm we should chat, I only mine planet side and I struggle to go below 97-99% TT returns.

Regards

Sarah Kazanori Louise

Kazanori said:

Mmm we should chat, I only mine planet side and I struggle to go below 97-99% TT returns.

Regards

Sarah Kazanori Louise

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We should chat.


Otherwise, I was very very lucky last year and I may be paying back the 98% return I was getting indoors. Alternatively, it could just be a really really bad loot period and I'll hit something nice soon. Either way I spent 90% of April outdoors with nothing to show for it on about 80k cycled. I mixed in some indoors, but my only meaningful hof was a 4.6k tower following 13k of losses in March. Markup is hard, but I'm still getting over 115% and should be profiting 5-6% of whatever I pump in, but I'm not seeing the TT return.

Gonna take it easy for a day and run through some numbers and sheets, but unfortunately EU is not worth my time if I'm not able to get 90% TT returns. I'd rather go play something else if I'm not going to profit.

April 2017

TT in: 71363.05
TT out: 60573.50 (84.88%)

Avg. Markup: 115.23%

Profit/Loss: -2943.01


Well another piss poor month it seems. Selling mod exc TT+3200 firm.

Spent the last three weeks of this month outdoors for 81.67% tt. I had a tower indoors at the beginning of month and then moved outdoors, but it didn't help and once again i cannot manage to get 90% returns for the life of me..


Moreover.. I'm mining outdoors, ore only, untaxed.. spacing drops w/ LBML so that's not the issue. Additionally, i refuse to mine tt trash such as lyst, iron, cald, narc, or blaus unless i hit it accidentally. I should be able to get a reasonable return without hitting trash resources. Once again further proving my point that resource availability is becoming such a problem that I can't even get too TT returns when going for markup. Since going outdoors my markup average has risen to 117% or so.. most of the bad markup from this month was a lot of 108-110% runs when i was indoors.

I'm going to mine until I uber one last time and then I'm quitting mining. MA needs to sort this shit out.

I am 82.13% TT return since February 11, 2017 when i returned after withdrawing all of last year's profits.

Pretty sad bud, sorry to hear you're hanging it up. I don't blame you though... I felt the same way mining MU areas, it seems that the TT returns are always poor offsetting any MU potential. I am in the same boat of quitting mining until it improves. I'm holding onto my gear just incase MA decides to do something about it....

Sucks to hear about the results man, I hung up my adj drill a while ago (thankfully on a high note), just logging in once in a blue moon to feel out the market and drop a few probes (returns have been insanely dreadful since my last HOF).

Heavy turnover definitely improves consistency, but it seems as though there is no "Guaranteed" minimum return threshold for extended grinding (If there is, it's probably around 75-80%). Many will achieve 95-98% undoubtedly, but with current MU even their profit will be minimal considering the amount of time invested.

Which is why my hiatus will continue until the market can provide an average MU of ~125% sans pyrite/dianthus/wave garbage.

The mental strain of extended poor TT returns coupled with trash MU feels like a sick masochistic rollercoaster, unless you're a gambler at heart. Would be nice if I could tell myself "at least I'm gaining skills", but with the current mining system that's a laughable excuse.

I'm certain I could get 95% or better TT return if I were to mine poor markup resources and/or treasure. But I refuse to do that.

I'm getting enough markup to break even around 83-84% return now, but most of my recent runs have been in the 75% range. I thought I was in a slump but I'm learning my losses are more or less tied to oversupply and resource caps.

I can't get paid a 3k+ hof of gazz or ignis if t isn't available. And forget hitting more than 10 ped of dianthus at once. But the dianthus issue is related to hoarding by Ubers that I contributed to back in November when it was 210% or so. Every 500 TT I farmed and sold them the markup would rise and hit rate would drop. If you think that isn't happening across the board with a lot of resources you're wrong.

Couple that with the thousands upon thousands of resources that a few reseller friends of mine have in storage and it's a recipe for disaster. when ore traders are struggling to sell stuff we're all doomed.

That's interesting considering that 115% should be enough to just break even assuming 90% average TT returns on a level 5 at 103.5% MU. That being said, your 82% TT isn't that far off from 90% when we're dealing with averages and how sampling statistics work.

We've talked a little about it in the past, but at least on Caly (at least for all of Eudoria and half of Amethera I have fully mapped), 115% average ore MU is the best you're going to get aside from a handful of areas. With enmatter though, I can pick almost any server and find at least one revival zone that will give me >120% MU in the long run (level 5 amp as well with Dianthus, etc.).

I've mostly been mapping new areas on Caly unamped since the new year (ore and enmatter), but unamped I've always at least broken even after MU without even targeting anything specific. One thing I've always wondered about though are the periods when it seems like the hit rate just drastically drops. You pretty much need HoFs to make up for that if you kept mining during those periods, but that means there's more chances for you to lose (# drops that are in your control) than gain (HoFs that are largely out of your control). Basically, it's easier to stack the deck against yourself amped if you aren't careful. Do you mine through low periods, or do you scale back?

Regardless of timing (I'm not sure how much the above truly helps if at all), your TT returns aren't all that bad. If you're just going to mine ore though, you can really only hope to just break even until you get a HoF on something with at least ok MU. TT returns seem within normal, it's just the markup situation.

kingofaces said:

That's interesting considering that 115% should be enough to just break even assuming 90% average TT returns on a level 5 at 103.5% MU. That being said, your 82% TT isn't that far off from 90% when we're dealing with averages and how sampling statistics work.

We've talked a little about it in the past, but at least on Caly (at least for all of Eudoria and half of Amethera I have fully mapped), 115% average ore MU is the best you're going to get aside from a handful of areas. With enmatter though, I can pick almost any server and find at least one revival zone that will give me >120% MU in the long run (level 5 amp as well with Dianthus, etc.).

I've mostly been mapping new areas on Caly unamped since the new year (ore and enmatter), but unamped I've always at least broken even after MU without even targeting anything specific. One thing I've always wondered about though are the periods when it seems like the hit rate just drastically drops. You pretty much need HoFs to make up for that if you kept mining during those periods, but that means there's more chances for you to lose (# drops that are in your control) than gain (HoFs that are largely out of your control). Basically, it's easier to stack the deck against yourself amped if you aren't careful. Do you mine through low periods, or do you scale back?

Regardless of timing (I'm not sure how much the above truly helps if at all), your TT returns aren't all that bad. If you're just going to mine ore though, you can really only hope to just break even until you get a HoF on something with at least ok MU. TT returns seem within normal, it's just the markup situation.

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I grind and grind.. i don't stop for low periods or high periods ever. I just keep dropping. It shouldn't matter and I should be able to get 90% return each and every month. If MA doesn't track individual longterm returns there's no reason I should have to pay back my 98% return from 2016.

Also, I have all of Eudoria and Amethera mapped out according to revival zones already. Same with RT and Ark.. haven't gotten to remap cyrene yet but there's nothing worth my time there anyways. Dianthus hunting doesn't work for me unless I hop from server to server which blows. Plus i'll just uber on oil/garcen grease and it'll kill my margins anyways. With my high volume mining, wave farming rare resources doesn't work.

Right now i'm getting 119% return if I stay put, which I'll do until MA decides to hof me on high markup stuff. I refuse to move and mine trash just to get 90% returns.

Also, I pay 102.5% for my lvl 5 amps.. or cheaper when i can.

Edit: My tt input also includes decay from my refiner and armor and any other decay consumed while mining, not just excavator and finder decay.. so that might be affecting .5% or so of my overall returns. just something to keep in mind.

According to the "Law of Averages", with your grinds and on going grinds you should get something nice soon (1st new month of the week btw). Also, like alot of posts already mentioned on the resource caps and what not, just stinks (thus why I've scaled back too in mining lately except for daily mining bonus missions on Caly). But hopefully with summer migration most the high MU resources (pyrite, dianthus, and etc.) will be either used/consumed more in order to be released back into the wild. Wish I had the answers to help, but I'm just a mere n00b when it comes to mining all of planetside Caly/Ark/Cy, and have been focusing more on hunting lately. Keep it up (hang in there smartly) and soon enough there will be 'light at the end of the tunnel'.

Law of Averages ref: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/law-of-averages

All the best,
Vi

Well, again, you're not alone, Rocket.
Since Core start i was in contant loss. Pure TT is close to 20k.
So atm i'm staying low and hunting for daily tokens only until I see 2-3 towers daily on a regular basis in HOF list.

GL to all miners )

To be fair, that's what almost everyone is saying as of late.. hunters, crafters, mining.. big loss since core started.

Trying not to jinx myself here...

but May is good.

well my guess that guy in post #90 was right


one thing , how was your return before this log ? did you had any big hofs ?

Alina said:

well my guess that guy in post #90 was right


one thing , how was your return before this log ? did you had any big hofs ?

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no big hofs before the log... some month 92-94%... others 102.5%... everything seemed to average around 95-98% though. biggest hof before the log was 2.6k niksarium. I'm not an avid hunter or crafter. Mining is my bread and butter.

This month I'm sitting at 102.49% as I write this.... so... progress.

I believe my woes of March were related to lack of bankroll and problems with resource availability. Can't tower on a resource if the cap doesn't have enough of it available to give you. I refused to go after tt resources, so my bankroll wasn't capable of withstanding the losses and i couldn't get enough markup to keep on going.

This month should be +6000 ped or so. maybe more, maybe less. I expect my TT return to decrease by 0.50% or so due to switching from adj to mod excavator. the decay bill is real. lol

Edit: I also mixed in some outdoor mining in march and subsequently hit three x300 multis (aka indoor towers) while outdoors. Based on my personal beliefs in loot, this is the primary reason for my 13k loss that month. But it all stems to bankroll. I got nervous about losses and chickened out. Not going to make that mistake again.

May 2017

Since the tower, I likely won't be mining the rest of the month. Here are the results:

TT in: 40153.09

TT out: 52348.92 (130.37%)

Avg. Markup: 114.87%

Profit/Loss: +18194.97


I waited two months... but i got the march kickback finally.

so if i lose 2-5k tt and i get an uber 2-5k i lose it again in tt ) ( then noobs on this forum were like how the fuck he gets those 20k in hunt...ya got like 5 loots over 20k and 37k in mining). lately 4k tt loss got 4k tower then again lost it

well u want to end the month with this profit but next ones might be a bit savage

Rocket192 said:

May 2017

Since the tower, I likely won't be mining the rest of the month. Here are the results:

TT in: 40153.09

TT out: 52348.92 (130.37%)

Avg. Markup: 114.87%

Profit/Loss: +18194.97


I waited two months... but i got the march kickback finally.

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