My Impressions After 30 Days

OP is a good read with many interesting replies too.

Detritus said:

As for the UL conundrum, I have been stubbornly moving towards acceptance of what you are saying. I have been trying to stick with UL since the MU of L weapons hurts your eco and it's just MU that you have to keep paying over and over. It does seem that's the way it must be for now, though.

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Doubtless you've seen that everyone plays EU differently.
So just a reminder that not everyone worries about playing eco.
Some swirlie hunters insist they see more swirlies with non-eco UL vs a similar L.
Others insist they get more swirlies using certain (L or UL) weapons on certain mobs.
Another way some people compete with each other is based on total skills points and that means switching activities often to get those green swirlies faster: missions+ mindforce, melee, crafting, mining, repairing, healing, sweating, etc.
Some still treat EU as a virtual world to simply hang out and chat with friends, window shopping, trying clothing armor combos to find a new look, etc.

Regardless I'll always suggested setting a monthly budget for any game, but doubly so for EU. lol

As for noob missions on planets:
* Found Ark lots of fun, and Caly has some really polished newbie missions.

All other planets pretty much have a dead (ref: TT) economy from low/no player base.
* Monria and Toulan has their newbie missions working and pretty interesting+fun.
* Cyrene gets a lot of flak for lots of reasons we won't get into. But it has a whole lot for a newbie to do with lots of simple/small daily missions that keeps things interesting, even a sweat mission. Personally I avoided Cyrene until last month and now finding it lots of fun even if the story-line is disconnected and there's literally wall to wall mission NPCs scattered all over it's 3 acres...
* RT's interesting but I haven't visited since December. Its lowest newbie missions are a big grind, non-intuitive, disconnected, buggy, or outright broken, and its been like that at least since RT's "apocalypse". Also it's HTT (Hunt the Thing) was changed to a game of whack a wolf. I'd much prefer HTT return to how it was with balanced amounts of mobs, and no armors, and only HTT TT weapons+FAP and wish there was a way/pay to reset HTT to play as the soldier.
* The nicest thing I can say about NI is it has ancient greece, even if AG is all melee. But I heard AG has changed a lot since I was there 1.5 years back (like don't need time keys to visit, etc.) so dunno if AG is worthwhile?

Hopefully you visit each one and enjoy your time in EU.

I have been playing for 10+ years and only now i "think" I found how to play, this game like MA says its dynamic and I truly believe it is, its up to you to discover "when" that dynamism occurs and follow the trend, its very hard to explain but one thing I can tell you, don't stick to only one profession

The point to this experience is not to try and be competitive. There will always be alot of people higher than you or just can dish out more $$$. The point is to try and have fun with what you can put. If you dream big right away, then your screwed.

You seem to want to spend alot more than needed at your lvl.

Max Hec said:

As for noob missions on planets:
* Found Ark lots of fun, and Caly has some really polished newbie missions.

All other planets pretty much have a dead (ref: TT) economy from low/no player base.
* Monria and Toulan has their newbie missions working and pretty interesting+fun.
* Cyrene gets a lot of flak for lots of reasons we won't get into. But it has a whole lot for a newbie to do with lots of simple/small daily missions that keeps things interesting, even a sweat mission. Personally I avoided Cyrene until last month and now finding it lots of fun even if the story-line is disconnected and there's literally wall to wall mission NPCs scattered all over it's 3 acres...
* RT's interesting but I haven't visited since December. Its lowest newbie missions are a big grind, non-intuitive, disconnected, buggy, or outright broken, and its been like that at least since RT's "apocalypse". Also it's HTT (Hunt the Thing) was changed to a game of whack a wolf. I'd much prefer HTT return to how it was with balanced amounts of mobs, and no armors, and only HTT TT weapons+FAP and wish there was a way/pay to reset HTT to play as the soldier.
* The nicest thing I can say about NI is it has ancient greece, even if AG is all melee. But I heard AG has changed a lot since I was there 1.5 years back (like don't need time keys to visit, etc.) so dunno if AG is worthwhile?

Hopefully you visit each one and enjoy your time in EU.

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Yes, I'd like to visit all the planets and see what they have to offer. So far Ark is by far my favorite, for a lot of reasons. Caly is good for shopping/trade, but that's about it.

I recently visited Monria. I like the Lovecraft theme, but I got bored quickly. Might be more fun for miners. To be fair, I didn't spend much time there, so maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance.

I just landed on RT today. It's basically one big advertisement. And that dude Neverdie has his name and face plastered all over everything, lol. It kinda feels narcissistic to me, but whatever. I am going to hang for a bit and see what's up. Everything is super tacky, it's like Leisure Suit Larry VR.

The others are still on the bucket list.

Kristoliquid said:

The point to this experience is not to try and be competitive. There will always be alot of people higher than you or just can dish out more $$$. The point is to try and have fun with what you can put. If you dream big right away, then your screwed.

You seem to want to spend alot more than needed at your lvl.

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Yea I knew coming into it I wouldn't compete at the higher levels, I guess I was just surprised at how expensive it got only a month in. But you're right, I need to retrain my thinking and slow it down. I think I'm trying to compare it to other RPGs where you can just make a hundred daggers and be master at crafting.

Kristoliquid said:

The point to this experience is not to try and be competitive. There will always be alot of people higher than you or just can dish out more $$$. The point is to try and have fun with what you can put. If you dream big right away, then your screwed.

You seem to want to spend alot more than needed at your lvl.

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exactly
quite the same i said
there's no use to be competitive as the only use of being competitive in this game is when you're in an event (LA's ones, merry/halloween mayhem, red pvp areas ...
for the entire leftover of entropia (so 95% of it) there's no use of being competitive as you're not in competition with others players
and as there is no ending lvl too, then there's no use for the fact of wanting to increase your lvl the fastest possible as there's no ending in this game too

Detritus said:

I recently visited Monria. I like the Lovecraft theme, but I got bored quickly. Might be more fun for miners. To be fair, I didn't spend much time there, so maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance.

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yes but monria is a little moon, you have to see this territory as cnd or crystal palace
so it's more territories to go for hollydays like a few days as they are very tiny compared to a planet

Detritus said:

I've now put in about a month of active duty, I have mixed feelings about the game. What follows are my initial impressions so far, I would be curious to hear others opinions. My activity is hunting. Sorry for wall of text, just skip this thread if you don't want to read.

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The bad:

1. This game is expensive AF.

A coworker (who's been playing for a very long time) got me into it, and gave me ample warning about the cost, but I was still surprised. I don't see how anyone can deny this is a pay-to-win game.

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You really wanted to play online game AND someone to pay you 5000$ per month for this? I came here after 8 years of Lineage 2. It was ~20 bucks per month and then became free... only to find out many players payed up to 500$ per month to buy themselves top gear (this existed and before but was illegal)
As with the other "free" online games you can really can play really free - but will advance a lot slower.

2. This game is buggy AF.

Mobs frequently become "Unaccessible" even though they are 1 meter away from you on flat ground.

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Get a mentor. He would explain you this is introduced to prevent the players from game mechanics abuse. IF some mob cannot attack you HE becomes "inaccessible" and stays inaccessible until he (or it of you prefer) hits you.

The physics are ridiculous. Why does my 35ton VTOL bounce around like a beach ball?

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Create a better engine and offer it to the developers.

Why can't I spawn my fighter jet if there's a small pebble in the way?

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Because you cannot.
If you really need scientific explanation - you don't get it out of your bottomless magic bag - you use nano-blah-blah technologies to create it or whatever it is. Obviously if you include pebbles in its structure it already not be your Slepinir.

3. The mechanics are extremely dull.

There's no positional damage, you can't evade through movement, etc.

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True. You either cannot catch bullets in your teeth... Wait! Isn't it only seem in the movies? As being faster then light and evading laser beams?

I would have thought crafting would be creative and interesting, but it's the worst of them all.

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As you play only for a month you probably cannot craft anything. But nevertheless you know how the craft works. Right.

4. The missions feel like an after-thought, and are mostly meaningless and disconnected.

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Missions are just this - "exchange" ammo and decay for skills. You don't like them? Great. Spend ammo and decay and get nothing, it is up to you.

Pratahn said:

You really wanted to play online game AND someone to pay you 5000$ per month for this? I came here after 8 years of Lineage 2. It was ~20 bucks per month and then became free... only to find out many players payed up to 500$ per month to buy themselves top gear (this existed and before but was illegal)
As with the other "free" online games you can really can play really free - but will advance a lot slower.

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I'm not sure what you mean about getting paid, I never mentioned anything about that. I don't expect to play for free either, as I stated I am a regular depositor. I was simply providing a point of view that I feel the game is expensive compared to most, that's all.

Pratahn said:

Get a mentor. He would explain you this is introduced to prevent the players from game mechanics abuse. IF some mob cannot attack you HE becomes "inaccessible" and stays inaccessible until he (or it of you prefer) hits you.

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I have a great mentor (who I've mentioned several times), and I don't need her to explain it to me. I understand perfectly well what's happening and why. My point was about mobs becoming inaccessible for illegitimate reasons (algorithmic errors). A mob 1 meter in front of you on flat ground should have a clear path for the pathfinder script and a clear shot from the raytracer, there's no reason for it to go inaccessible.

Pratahn said:

Create a better engine and offer it to the developers.

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The physics engine that's built in to CryEngine is more than sufficient, that isn't the flaw. It's the formulas that they've applied to the vehicles. The weight/drag/thrust are all wrong.

Pratahn said:

Because you cannot.
If you really need scientific explanation - you don't get it out of your bottomless magic bag - you use nano-blah-blah technologies to create it or whatever it is. Obviously if you include pebbles in its structure it already not be your Slepinir.

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This is a nonsensical response. I was pointing out a software defect in the collision detection. Some of the colliders for flora and pebbles and such are not being culled properly, preventing vehicles from being spawned where they by all right should be able to.

Pratahn said:

True. You either cannot catch bullets in your teeth... Wait! Isn't it only seem in the movies? As being faster then light and evading laser beams?

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Who said anything about catching bullets? Most of the mobs are some form of animal. Surely you can dodge a bite or swipe of a claw?

Pratahn said:

As you play only for a month you probably cannot craft anything. But nevertheless you know how the craft works. Right.

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Yes, I do know how it works, because I tried it; that could have been deduced by my expression "I tried crafting".

Pratahn said:

Missions are just this - "exchange" ammo and decay for skills. You don't like them? Great. Spend ammo and decay and get nothing, it is up to you.

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In keeping form with the rest of your inane post, you've also missed the point on this one, and literally summarized the exact same reason I gave for them being an afterthought. Well done.

garci said:

yes but monria is a little moon, you have to see this territory as cnd or crystal palace
so it's more territories to go for hollydays like a few days as they are very tiny compared to a planet

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Makes sense. I'll probably revisit at some point.

Wow that's some sour post there Pratahn
At no point did the OP come across to me as looking for solutions from the player-base and even the title made it quite clear to me.

I'll admit right now to only glancing at the remainder of your uncalled for rage post, it bored me to tears.
But in the future maybe try less salt and more honey in your future posts and we'll all be more civil. Thanks

Max Hec said:

Wow that's some sour post there Pratahn

But in the future maybe try less salt and more honey in your future posts and we'll all be more civil. Thanks

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You are probably right; but i was "sore"about OP's complain about:
1. most basic thing which a mentor should have explained to his disciple - like "evade" stuff and inaccessible mobs, crafts and such.
2. The game not being really free... and this said not from a kid but from a programmer? Are his programming products which he produce as a work, not for entertainment, "free"?
3. the game engine - well, i find some inconveniences too, but *every* 3D engine have flaws most of which (like getting stuck in the textures) are common for each engine. And again - this is written from a programmer?
4. He wants to start an online game and in few days to become competitive *for free* to players which play for 10 years? Oh, and after an whooping 30 days of play he is not able to use top level gear? Knock, knock - anybody home?

Pratahn said:

You are probably right; but i was "sore"about OP's complain about:
1. most basic thing which a mentor should have explained to his disciple - like "evade" stuff and inaccessible mobs, crafts and such.
2. The game not being really free... and this said not from a kid but from a programmer? Are his programming products which he produce as a work, not for entertainment, "free"?
3. the game engine - well, i find some inconveniences too, but *every* 3D engine have flaws most of which (like getting stuck in the textures) are common for each engine. And again - this is written from a programmer?
4. He wants to start an online game and in few days to become competitive *for free* to players which play for 10 years? Oh, and after an whooping 30 days of play he is not able to use top level gear? Knock, knock - anybody home?

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1. I never said it wasn't explained or I didn't understand it. I was just saying the system could be improved.

2. I never once said anything about the game being free, I don't even think the word free is anywhere in my post. I even said upfront that I understood the costs going in. Did you even read my post?

3. The flaws I've pointed out have nothing to do with the engine, rather how it is used.

4. I never said anything of the like. I've explained several times that I'm a regular depositor, and I even admitted that I knew going in I wouldn't be competitive at the higher levels.


I'm not sure what your problem is, man. It seems like you didn't actually read anything I wrote, and now you're ranting and getting defensive about things I never said or even implied.

Pratahn said:

You are probably right; but i was "sore"about OP's complain about:
1. most basic thing which a mentor should have explained to his disciple - like "evade" stuff and inaccessible mobs, crafts and such.
2. The game not being really free... and this said not from a kid but from a programmer? Are his programming products which he produce as a work, not for entertainment, "free"?
3. the game engine - well, i find some inconveniences too, but *every* 3D engine have flaws most of which (like getting stuck in the textures) are common for each engine. And again - this is written from a programmer?
4. He wants to start an online game and in few days to become competitive *for free* to players which play for 10 years? Oh, and after an whooping 30 days of play he is not able to use top level gear? Knock, knock - anybody home?

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It appears we have 2 very different way of reading the OP, so to be fair I've gone back and reread it.

I still read the OP as a mostly technical analysis of Entropia Universe with a fair and unbiased opinion.
The OP appears to be merely describing shock at the cost in the initial remarks.
But his getting to ~lvl20 pistol skills in 30 days can not be done for free nor cheaply.

And players new to any game should never consider how long others have played or they'd never join any older then a week after release. Plus it's highly unusual for a game to still be going almost 14 years now, and for alpha testers it'll soon be 16 years.

Anyways I see Free players as absolutely necessary to EU because not all players wish to spend most in-game time walking at low-res to feed pets, or sweating for Mats/MF/Ark-bribe.

Detritus said:

Rufen and I chat in game, he's got a lot of good advice for new players. I recommend any other noobs reading this to read the post and join his channel.

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One is glad to be off service

Great post man, tyvm and I hope MA reads or our now totally silent Community Manager.

Expensive is the main problem I see.
My main love is the freedom and excitement.
It's ever developing and around for 10 years.
There is a lot of info online, you have to look, and ask other players. This forum has a very up to date mob section that people have been working hard at.

I wouldn't call this game play to win for a couple reasons
- you can pay a ton and loose hard
- there are people i know that haven't payed at all and are high level or have a lot of assets.

also my advice for new players is really to be aware its a slow progression - unless you do dump thousands of dollars. You are better off doing all the small things, missions, learning, exploring, events that build you up.

I've spent tons on this game, and don't regret it. I feel so proud to have over 200 HP, some decent UL armor, a GREAT Society, and some other cool stuff.

But I still get stuck on my first statement.. expense.

Glad you are here, and hope you stick around - just pace your spending and you might! LOL

DavinFelth said:

I wouldn't call this game play to win for a couple reasons
- you can pay a ton and loose hard
- there are people i know that haven't payed at all and are high level or have a lot of assets.

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I'd have to disagree with you there.

The ones losing hard are (for the most part) gambling and consciously not worrying about taking a strategic/economical approach. If your goal is to gamble/enjoy yourself, win or lose, you accomplished what you set out to do, and I would call that (a very expensive form of) winning

And as for playing for free, well, time is money

A very interesting thread, Detritus - thanks for sharing your experiences!

I'm sure it's safe to say that having mixed feeling is something all Entropians have about EU. Despite all the 'bad stuff' you quite rightly mention, we still keep at it!

Don't be seduced by the big figures you see on the HOF boards or in the forums. There is generally a lot of focus on returns and losses etc and hitting the big one but there is still gains to be made on a much smaller scale and at a much lower level. It's all about patience and understanding of the game - very few will achieve something they can call 'profitable' (and very many players are reckless, myself included at times!) but it can work without having to deposit shed loads of money.

You are in that very precious period of being a new player and experiencing the environment for the first time. It really was a fantastic time for me when I discovered Project Entropia but I didn't see the game anything like that you've explained in your first post. I didn't think about profit or skilling up or levelling properly until it was too late, and I missed out on taking advantage of the dynamics at the time. There were those though who were much smarter than me and knew how to make use of the tools available at the time - and now it's your turn, and you have a great community on hand to help!

Pretty much the way the game's been since it went Gold.

There used to be a level of "fun" to the game that seemed to have diminished. What used to be about playing with friends has turned into grinding missions for skills needed to "keep up". I stopped playing I guess 2 years ago? Didn't have the time to "play smart" or to get my ROE back in a timely manner if I were to invest. My avatar sits around collecting dust with just over 200k skills. At the time it was a descent "level" to be at but I'm sure by now it's a fairly common level.

The game forced players to evolve in order to spend less. Many of us didn't want to evolve. Many of us were happy spending our $X/mth and hanging out online with friends. When our hours of game time got cut in half because we didn't want to play like a profiteer just to get the same hrs/dollar out of it, many of us left.

Still in the back of my mind I'm always hoping that SOMETHING major and positive changes. Not so much because I loved the game play... but when you deal with people in a Real Cash Economy setting, the friendships you make and the bonds that are formed are very real and long lasting.

Menace

Welcome to Entropia Universe your review really makes some good points.

I have been around 11 years and 11 days.

What I do personally is do the same activity over and over again which is mining with a level 5 amp 98 drops indoor(Club Neverdie, Arkadia Underground) when I am alone or have a bad connection (last year). And perfect it so its enjoyable at least and not frustating.

What I really enjoy is team hunting with close and old friends getting skills and better gear year by year. We started at killing snables, we do spiders now but it's getting harder to do those hunts because of availabilty in the same planet, sharing times, RL and so.


Find people to chat with and hunt.

Sadly they killed this team hunting because of Iron Missions, they are great but everyone wants to kill alone this days to get the kill point. And they can fix this with shared points but 1 support case isn't going to make the difference.




Great post by the way

Menace and Athal added something I missed to mention. People relations and friendships among users in Entropia is something special. Sharing in a RCE enviroment is something makes relations more serious and bonds are made for life sometimes.
But be carefull in the beggining there aren't all angels ofc

It is a bit buggy and the mechanics are dull compared to many other games, I agree. But like you say, the whole thing about EU is the real cash economy, not some amazing storytelling or state-of-the-art game play. But yes, more work could definitely be done on these parts. I have some comments regarding your other points, however.

Detritus said:

The bad:

1. This game is expensive AF.

A coworker (who's been playing for a very long time) got me into it, and gave me ample warning about the cost, but I was still surprised. I don't see how anyone can deny this is a pay-to-win game. I depo'd a decent amount to cover initial equipment costs and getting my feet wet. I've now managed to level up to almost lvl 20 laser pistol, and I'm discovering that a) any decent weapon setup at that level is going to run about $500, b) I also need to throw a few hundred bucks for rings/buffs if I want to stay competitive with other players. It's becoming a pretty big turnoff for me. If I decide to bite the bullet and invest in my player now, then in another 20 levels I'm looking at 10x that investment to compete at the next level.

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A big money sink I often see people fall into is too soon getting eager to compete "at the next level", as you put it. Real cash economy leads to high competitiveness. There will always be people willing to spend money for shortcuts and with supply/demand that obviously drives up prices. You generally can't have a speedy growth while also making money, you need to be disciplined, patient and not get carried away. Definitely don't need to spend the sums you mention to be competitive either, as long as you don't go for too big mobs too soon. More on this after the next quote.

Also, the pay-to-win discussion is tricky here. Another aspect of a real cash economy is that not everyone can win. Someone has to be paying for an end product. In EU one example is the vast amount of hof-chasers, who mainly play for entertainment and the thrill of hitting the jackpot. Players willing to pay for luxury items is another cash cow.
Speedy growth will cost you since you are competing with players like that. But it is absolutely possible to win-without-paying if you are patient and smart about it. In real life you need to be patient and smart about your business model to find success. Is it boring at times, yes, but that's a result of a real cash economy. The "fun" stuff are not profitable since you compete with too many people. Fun and easy stuff that suddenly become profitable (opportunities like that emerge often, stay attentive) won't remain like that for long since everyone flocks to it as soon as their hear about it. Again, the simple nature of a real cash economy. The amazing upside of being able to make money of course comes with potential downsides. It's not foolproof.

Against the game itself it's not even possible to win longterm, obviously. It's their business, they are of course set up to profit. I know OP understands this but I just wanted to add it.

Detritus said:

As a side note, I also think MindArk has set you up for failure to some degree. In the developer notes they explicitly warn against using unmaxed weapons. Ok, so go look for UL guns, about 95% of them are maxed at level 100. My mentor explained that these are largely legacy items. Ok, so where are the new ones to replace them?

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As for the guns to replace the level 100 ones. Use (L). A lot of people like the convenience of unlimited weapons, being able to just repair and go back out right away. But you are paying for luxury, it's absolutely not needed. (L) is great and there are good options around. Even with the markup they have competitive eco. Research. Browsing Entropedia is great (when it's up lol).

The only investments I see that is needed for a hunter, is grabbing an Ares ring and an amp. That makes you competitive enough, if you are patient and can resist stepping up to "the next level" too fast.

From someone whos played EU since just after beta to someone whos played for one month.. This company (MA) spends the majority of its time and resources brainstorming the next "how can we suck the life out of our players / community" rather than "how to improve gameplay". You can go from VU to VU for years and years and notice upgrades only to put more money in MA's pockets, while in the process breaking something that isn't broke. Ya, swirlys are fun but how much are you willing to flush down the toilet for virtual fireworks? I guess if you were lucky in the early days and have no life and can devote 10 hours a day to the game then by all means, go for it.