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Resource Conversion

Bear

Bear

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Georg Bear Mavel
Make it possible to convert certain resources by unsing a "Matter Collider" into other specific resources.

5 PED Lyst -> 1 PED Dunkel

10 PED Iron -> 5 PED Pyrite

30 PED Valu -> 2 PED Ruga

10 PED Pyrite -> ......

Depending on the conversion rate or, if it is like crafting in addtion to the success rate, it should be possible to keep the prices for rare resources high, raise the prices of the 102% MU resources a bit and make it possible to get whatever you might need for crafting - at a cost...
 
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There is already a mechanism for this.

Go to the nearest auctioneer or marketplace, sell your iron, buy pyrite.
 
Bear said:
Make it possible to convert certain resources by unsing a "Matter Collider" into other specific resources.

5 PED Lyst -> 1 PED Dunkel

10 PED Iron -> 5 PED Pyrite

....

Depending on the conversion rate or, if it is like crafting in addtion to the success rate, it should be possible to keep the prices for rare resources high, raise the prices of the 102% MU resources a bit and make it possible to get whatever you might need for crafting - at a cost...
Click to expand...

This is one of your worst ideas to date and you have come up with some bad ideas. The reason why they have high mu is that hard to find, once you start using common resources the MU will drop. Would you convert a sollomate for a mod-merc next? Just because you are having problems finding pyrite, don't crash the market for everyone else.
 
bigdaddy trim said:
This is one of your worst ideas to date and you have come up with some bad ideas. The reason why they have high mu is that hard to find, once you start using common resources the MU will drop. Would you convert a sollomate for a mod-merc next? Just because you are having problems finding pyrite, don't crash the market for everyone else.
Click to expand...

^^^^^^ what Bigdaddy Said

What I do know is the the entire economy in EU is based on balancing rules. There is an entire team dedicated to this and they make adjustments to the system to ensure it remains balanced. Allowing players to trade common resources for a smaller TT value of a more valuable resource will ruin this balance.
 
Wooooow this is dumb. About as dumb as turning lead into gold back in the dark ages.

Here's how this works:

You created an exchange rate for all ores, which means you have a guaranteed markup for the rares. So no markup crash. What's the issue? Well, why the fuck would I bother to skill mining up, buy better tools, when I can mine the noobie ores (lyst) and convert to rare ores (ruga)?

Bye bye any value in any mining tools apart from excavators
 
Aio said:
Wooooow this is dumb. About as dumb as turning lead into gold back in the dark ages.

Here's how this works:

You created an exchange rate for all ores, which means you have a guaranteed markup for the rares. So no markup crash. What's the issue? Well, why the fuck would I bother to skill mining up, buy better tools, when I can mine the noobie ores (lyst) and convert to rare ores (ruga)?

Bye bye any value in any mining tools apart from excavators
Click to expand...

Lets have a look, shall we?:

10 PED Iron -> 5 PED Pyrite

If Iron MU = 100%, Pyrite MU would be 200%

If the Market pays 250% MU for Pyrite, you would be able to make a Profit of 50% IF Iron would stay at 100% MU - which Iron would not!
Iron would jump to 125% MU and Pyrite would stay at 250% MU
or
Iron would jump to 112% MU and Pyrite would fall in MU
or
Pyrite would drop more or lots of people convert Iron until Pyrite falls below 200%

If Pyrite drops a lot and MU is below 200%, nobody would convert.
If Iron is at 150% MU, and Pyrite drops so MU is 220%, it would be a loss to convert BUT if you have a "need" or just Towerd on Iron, you could convert.

The Market stays dynamic, but the Resources MU would be conceted though the possible conversons. Instead of a 2D graph on MU, the system would be like a 3D net-graph....

---------------
but yeh... pob. I am just a stupid honk...

PS: I guess later the "Whats in for MA?" faction will get out of their holes... 10PED to 5PED conversion is 5 PED for MA....
 
Bear said:
Lets have a look, shall we?:

10 PED Iron -> 5 PED Pyrite

If Iron MU = 100%, Pyrite MU would be 200%

If the Market pays 250% MU for Pyrite, you would be able to make a Profit of 50% IF Iron would stay at 100% MU - which Iron would not!
Iron would jump to 125% MU and Pyrite would stay at 250% MU
or
Iron would jump to 112% MU and Pyrite would fall in MU
or
Pyrite would drop more or lots of people convert Iron until Pyrite falls below 200%

If Pyrite drops a lot and MU is below 200%, nobody would convert.
If Iron is at 150% MU, and Pyrite drops so MU is 220%, it would be a loss to convert BUT if you have a "need" or just Towerd on Iron, you could convert.

The Market stays dynamic, but the Resources MU would be conceted though the possible conversons. Instead of a 2D graph on MU, the system would be like a 3D net-graph....

---------------
but yeh... pob. I am just a stupid honk...

PS: I guess later the "Whats in for MA?" faction will get out of their holes... 10PED to 5PED conversion is 5 PED for MA....
Click to expand...

Did you even read what I wrote?

You created an exchange rate for all ores, which means you have a guaranteed markup for the rares. So no markup crash.

MU is not the issue.

I can mine the noobie ores (lyst) and convert to rare ores (ruga)

Is the issue.

Additionally, ore conversion would only work if you had the balanced levels of TT in the system. 2:1 conversion must mean that the "balance point" is 2:1 Iron:pyrite. Which it is obviously not.
 
Aio said:
Did you even read what I wrote?

You created an exchange rate for all ores, which means you have a guaranteed markup for the rares. So no markup crash.

MU is not the issue.

I can mine the noobie ores (lyst) and convert to rare ores (ruga)

Is the issue.
Click to expand...

exactly why would you mine PVP if you can use a low Level finder and mine lyst then convert it to pyrite?
 
Aio said:
Did you even read what I wrote?

You created an exchange rate for all ores, which means you have a guaranteed markup for the rares. So no markup crash.

MU is not the issue.

I can mine the noobie ores (lyst) and convert to rare ores (ruga)

Is the issue.

Additionally, ore conversion would only work if you had the balanced levels of TT in the system. 2:1 conversion must mean that the "balance point" is 2:1 Iron:pyrite. Which it is obviously not.
Click to expand...

:confused:
Yes, I did read... did you read what I wrote, even more, did you really think about what I wrote?

YES, a noob could converts, lets say "Lyst", (I would go for more rare, like Gold or whatever) into Ruga...
Just for the Argument, lets say its "Lyst" to Ruga

Next a conversion rate is set, that would be what MA thinks the MU Avg should be.
For example, 200PED Lyst = 1PED Ruga, Ruga MU would be 2000%

This means that you get at minimum 2000% MU on Ruga IF you find some & there is need for Ruga at that MU.

If there is no need for Ruga at 2000%, you might still get 1800% MU if you find some Ruga, but Noob would be stupid as hell if he converts...

Balance Points? :scratch2: Its just TT value I talk about, but ye, if you want, make it "number of material"...
 
bigdaddy trim said:
exactly why would you mine PVP if you can use a low Level finder and mine lyst then convert it to pyrite?
Click to expand...

Good Point! Thanks for that.

With the example I gave, Pyrite would not fall below 200% MU if people are only converting but not mining Pyrite: You only get 1 PED TT Pyrite for 2 PED TT Lyst.

If you go into PVP and mine Pyrite, you get at min. MU 200% if Pyrite is super rare (& Lyst is TT)!
If Pyrite drops a lot in PVP and people need to sell to free their PED, Pyrite would fall below 200% and nobody would convert Lyst anymore.

PS: I actually don´t get it... whats the problem?
There is a MU cap already in place just because of the drop rate and the BP. You could even calc it if you are a crafter.
Implementing a conversion would reveal this MU cap but also interconecting the Resources MU. That way every resource would have a demand, even if there is no BP for it at the moment and every BP could be crafted - at a certain price...
 
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Hass said:
Fook yeaaaahhh! i'll take 10! :yay::yay:
Click to expand...

:) At a conversion of 10.000 Sollomate Opalo at full TT, why not? Finaly that old crap would be worth something again :dunce:

On the other hand, in 10 years ModMerc might be mid lvl Player gun at 5k anyway.. :silly2:
 
Inb4 lysterium is 500% and F-101 is the only finder in use across the universe.
 
Haruto Rat said:
There is already a mechanism for this.

Go to the nearest auctioneer or marketplace, sell your iron, buy pyrite.
Click to expand...

Case closed, first comment and shot in gold 10. all next comments are not needed>

In the name of Jupiter Emperor i command U Earth people to stop^^
 
This is the absolute worst fucking idea ever posted on this forum.

Next to whoever suggested we get "resource terminals"
 
Svarog said:
Inb4 lysterium is 500% and F-101 is the only finder in use across the universe.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, Lyst at 500% MU= 10 PED TT Lyst = 5 PED TT Pyrite so Pyrite MU = 1000% -> nobody would try to mine Pyrite at that MU...:laugh:

PS: That statement from you, Svarog, is even more silly than others try to tell my suggestion is...

PPS: Hey MA, with each conversion your REALLY make some serious $ !!. Guess everybody uses it as those "guys" think= 100.000 PED per day converted into 50.000 PED :yay:
 
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moondog said:
^^^^^^ what Bigdaddy Said

What I do know is the the entire economy in EU is based on balancing rules. There is an entire team dedicated to this and they make adjustments to the system to ensure it remains balanced. Allowing players to trade common resources for a smaller TT value of a more valuable resource will ruin this balance.
Click to expand...

:mad: what the f*ck.. nobody reads anymore?! :mad::mad:

I NEVER SAID "trade common resources for a smaller TT value of a more valuable resource"
YOU LOOSE TT value with every conversion! 10 PED TT Lyst into 5 PED Pyrite is a LOSS of 5 PED -> Happy MA
 
Thanks for the neg rep.

did you neg rep everyone who said this was a shitty idea?

You basically want to bypass any need for mining... or any need for mining beyond noobie finders. The end result of this would be f101 + lvl 13 for lyst and iron to use for conversions... horrible idea... and yes markups would crash because crafting is fucking broken and there wouldn't be demand for all of that pyrite, redu, and ruga..

so please.. neg rep me some more.

get out of here with this bullshit.
 
Last try to explain:

Take Real Life:

Raw Oil can be destilled / cracked in Gas & Diesel (and other stuff..)

  • Lets say you get from 100 raw oil 50 Gas & 50 Diesel
  • Lets also say that the demand is 50/50 as well...
  • Both would have the same price
  • Now VW scams the people with their Diesel cars and the demand for Diesel drops by 50%
  • The factory still produces 50/50 but can´t sell all the Diesel but the Gas is in high demand now.
  • The result will be that the price for Diesel falls and the price for Gas & raw Oil rises.


Also, since more raw oil is needed, the price for Diesel would probably not fall at the same rate.. and so on.... Diesel Cheaper, people short memory, more Diesel Cars, next scandal, electric cars, new use for raw oil.. bla bla... life
 
Bear said:
Oh yes, Lyst at 500% MU= 10 PED TT Lyst = 5 PED TT Pyrite so Pyrite MU = 1000% -> nobody would try to mine Pyrite at that MU...:laugh:
Click to expand...

I'm exaggerating of course, but you don't take into account that with people concentrating on easy ores, rare/deep ones would go much higher than it's now. Pyrite at double MU? I can see that. And that would cause a snowball effect.
 
Rocket192 said:
Thanks for the neg rep.

did you neg rep everyone who said this was a shitty idea?

You basically want to bypass any need for mining... or any need for mining beyond noobie finders. The end result of this would be f101 + lvl 13 for lyst and iron to use for conversions... horrible idea... and yes markups would crash because crafting is fucking broken and there wouldn't be demand for all of that pyrite, redu, and ruga..

so please.. neg rep me some more.

get out of here with this bullshit.
Click to expand...

No & No.. you got a neg rep because you did not even think about it for one sec, but only repeated the blobs from others.

  1. "You basically want to bypass any need for mining" NO, you still would need to mine
  2. "or any need for mining beyond noobie finders" NO, base on the MU of the material you need (say Lyst f.ex.) it is still or even better to mine for the rare stuff.
  3. "The end result of this would be f101 + lvl 13 for lyst and iron to use for conversions" No, since the MU of both would rise. Lets say Lyst is 200%, Pyrite would be 400% ... Mining Pyrite would be very profitable as would be mining Lyst... that will not happen because MU of both would even out..
  4. "yes markups would crash because crafting is fucking broken and there wouldn't be demand for all of that pyrite, redu, and ruga" AHHH, thats why Pyrite, Redu, Ruga have this crazy markup...beside, that more a problem with lack of active players
  5. "so please.. neg rep me some more. " Sorry, but I can´t at the moment...
 
Svarog said:
I'm exaggerating of course, but you don't take into account that with people concentrating on easy ores, rare/deep ones would go much higher than it's now. Pyrite at double MU? I can see that. And that would cause a snowball effect.
Click to expand...

Thanks for giving it a thought.
I agree that this would be the case - to some degree. Else it would not be needed to have a conversion.
However, it would even out between the resources which are linked by conversion. It would dampen the MU rise of rare and rise a bit the MU of the common.

I can´t see why it would cause a snowball effect? Of cause MA would still need the "TT crap finds" to be able to payout miners without crashing the market.
 
Bear said:
Last try to explain:

Take Real Life:

Raw Oil can be destilled / cracked in Gas & Diesel (and other stuff..)

  • Lets say you get from 100 raw oil 50 Gas & 50 Diesel
  • Lets also say that the demand is 50/50 as well...
  • Both would have the same price
  • Now VW scams the people with their Diesel cars and the demand for Diesel drops by 50%
  • The factory still produces 50/50 but can´t sell all the Diesel but the Gas is in high demand now.
  • The result will be that the price for Diesel falls and the price for Gas & raw Oil rises.


Also, since more raw oil is needed, the price for Diesel would probably not fall at the same rate.. and so on.... Diesel Cheaper, people short memory, more Diesel Cars, next scandal, electric cars, new use for raw oil.. bla bla... life
Click to expand...

That's a ridiculous comparison as they're not analogous. You can't obtain either Gasoline or Diesel from any other source than Petroleum; so that would be akin to crafting in Entropia (or at least refining two raw materials to make a new material, not a single raw material to make another raw material).

Anyway, you are looking at this from a pure markup point of view. The reason Pyrite has a high MU are threefold:

- Skills needed to use a detector with enough depth.
- Risk of mining in PVP4.
- MindArk's resource cap.

Your idea negates all three and makes it too simple. You mine Lyst, you decide to sell "as-is" or you decide to refine to Pyrite to sell. That's so fucking simple and every part of the game will suffer.

You fail to counter that there are "base resources" in all aspects of Entropia, which are used to "fill" gaps caused by capped mining/hunting. Lyst & Oil, Ammo & Shrapnel. I would bet that somehow crafting works in a similar way (mad4 crafting success was apparently really low after adj mad4 turned up... potentially a mad4 lower-cap?).

A final problem with your idea is that it removes all "balancing" from MA's point of view. MA requires control of the game to continue a functioning economy (as people's greed will drive MU down to zero if they don't). You're handing control to the players.

All-in-all, it's a terrible idea. We all get your mathematics of how 2 goes to 1 like 500 goes into 1000, but that's really not the point.
 
Aio said:
That's a ridiculous comparison as they're not analogous. You can't obtain either Gasoline or Diesel from any other source than Petroleum; so that would be akin to crafting in Entropia (or at least refining two raw materials to make a new material, not a single raw material to make another raw material).

...
Click to expand...

NO its not, and yes you can make Gas from coal if you like.. anyway... You can also make Diamonds from Coal...
Better example now?
Why do people do not convert all that coal into diamonds? Cause the conversion rate sucks, it better to mine. For the industry, diamonds are made from coal (actually mostly from gases). Better that way if you do not need big ones...

Aio said:
...
A final problem with your idea is that it removes all "balancing" from MA's point of view. MA requires control of the game to continue a functioning economy (as people's greed will drive MU down to zero if they don't). You're handing control to the players.
...
Click to expand...

You are forgetting that there is a loss on TT with each conversion. You need "external" money to pay the MU because TT is destroyed (MA eats it)...
 
why not just made a trader npc that trades enough of anything into anything else? like 20000 jesters into an imk2! so you wouldnt have to interact anymore with any other player in this mmorpg!
*sarcasm off...
 
Me Really Never said:
why not just made a trader npc that trades enough of anything into anything else? like 20000 jesters into an imk2! so you wouldnt have to interact anymore with any other player in this mmorpg!
*sarcasm off...
Click to expand...

You mean MOD 2350 or 2600 or Adj. whatever armor? Ye, we have that... conversion...
 

Alchemy eh?

Wont work in Entropia I'm afraid Bear.
 
Aio said:
That's a ridiculous comparison as they're not analogous. You can't obtain either Gasoline or Diesel from any other source than Petroleum; so that would be akin to crafting in Entropia (or at least refining two raw materials to make a new material, not a single raw material to make another raw material).
Click to expand...

Actually you can make diesel from vegetable oil (biodiesel).

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/introduction.html

Although i don't think the OP's suggestion is a good idea, along with all the other super items available from npc trade.
 
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