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Notice regarding ToU changes

RickEngland said:
You're such a c-u-n-t, that in protest at your cuntiousness, I will protest by not logging in and spending decay.

What is it with you anyway, are you half woman half man? I can never work it out.....some sort of freak I'm sure. The sort of place you have to be, because the real world won't accept you.

Then you try and tell me to live in the real world.

Phew...I feel better for that.

Rick
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You're an idiot. 90 days until nothing happens. Nothing bad happens with your account being frozen. After a year you've quit if your not logging in. This is so they don't store your credit card info and name for excessive time as per law. Holding someone's payment info for over a year is excessive if they are not using the service. what if walmart held your cc info for 750 days? It's not right
Learn how things work in the real world. You spend too much time here you think you have rights. Read the TOS you don't even own your account your Just using it. You have no rights it's like saying you own the train you ride on
 
Aio said:
No.



On account lock, MA are archiving the data. On account unlock, MA will re-instate this data as current (with an update of personal photo ID, as per usual).

Please read. As written, there is no min/max, however, there is a requirement to make sure that all account information is up-to-date. An account period expiration of 1 year would be reasonable. 750 days would not be.
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That's silly. By that thinking, if I purchase a CD (Certificate of Deposit) for $1000 at a 10% interestrate for a period of 10 years, I'd be forced to call my bank where I purchased it annually to ensure they don't delete my data (which will mean I won't be receiving my money back I am entitled to).
 
Venture Bros said:
You're an idiot. 90 days until nothing happens.
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Many of you miss the British tongue in cheek humour in much of this debate, maybe tone is not easy to express in words....but I was smiling ilke hell at many of my posts.

I thought it was fun to drop in a few actual real issues with VR that will impact peoples lives (many a true word spoken in jest too), sure I put a few feelers out there waiting for bites. Maybe I pushed it a little too far, maybe I didn't.

Plus call me cynical but I've been around long enough in the big bad world to know that acceptance of erosion in terms, generally leads to more erosion and more control as time passes.

But Aio has it in for me, always has. I generally don't go for the throat, unless in defence.
If he/she what ever it is, was to respect others opinions, rather than slamming people down at every opportunity (for self gratification maybe I don't know), it would be more of a pleasure here.

Anyway I'm past caring, the whole forum is becoming a bore. The game entertainment went into take the p*ss mode as well, so I'm losing interest in that fast as well.

I think it would be a lot more boring if I contributed nothing.

Have a nice day.

Rick

Edit: The truth is and in all seriousness; as much as I'm fond of the game over the last 10 years, and know much of the community. The day I feel that the balance is way off center between us and MA, then I will sell all my assets and walk away. My skills though, they will die with Rick unless I'm really desperate for cash.
 
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Wollongong said:
That's silly. By that thinking, if I purchase a CD (Certificate of Deposit) for $1000 at a 10% interestrate for a period of 10 years, I'd be forced to call my bank where I purchased it annually to ensure they don't delete my data (which will mean I won't be receiving my money back I am entitled to).
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No... in that case, the period of reasonable retention of data would begin after the interest period ended. With banks, they always have reason to retain data as it is pertinent to the cash you hold. As previously mentioned, PED does not exist, and has no real-world value, until Mindark commit a transfer in either direction.

You can't treat a bank (financial service) and Entropia (entertainment / consumer product) as the same thing. There's a good reason MA do not advertise themselves as a financial product - there's a whole host of other regulation to adhere to if they did that.
 
Aio said:
No... in that case, the period of reasonable retention of data would begin after the interest period ended. With banks, they always have reason to retain data as it is pertinent to the cash you hold. As previously mentioned, PED does not exist, and has no real-world value, until Mindark commit a transfer in either direction.

You can't treat a bank (financial service) and Entropia (entertainment / consumer product) as the same thing. There's a good reason MA do not advertise themselves as a financial product - there's a whole host of other regulation to adhere to if they did that.
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OK... so ten years from now, I have changed my bank account number, and I kinda forgot the CD expired. One year later, the bank gets to keep my money? Doesn't work that way.

And considering MA originally tried to become a bank... I'd say it isn't that far fetched to compare them to it.
 
Mindark doesn't keep your money though, you get a refund if your account was terminated due to inactivity. It's there in the terms of service:

In the event that Your Account is Terminated and if applicable, no refund will be granted except for the balance on Your PED Card and the TT value of the objects on the Account, as set out above.
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The part "if applicable" is there because account termination is also used for avatars who break the ToS or EULA, and probably other reasons. Read more here:

5.5. Banned Account

You hereby expressly acknowledge that if MindArk and/or MindArk's Partner decide not to reactivate Your Account, it will eventually be Terminated, with or without Your right to withdraw any remaining PED Card value, on MindArk's and/or MindArk's Partner sole and absolute discretion.
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Wollongong said:
OK... so ten years from now, I have changed my bank account number, and I kinda forgot the CD expired. One year later, the bank gets to keep my money? Doesn't work that way.

And considering MA originally tried to become a bank... I'd say it isn't that far fetched to compare them to it.
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You're absolutely correct, it does not work that way. You know that bit where I said comparing an entertainment product to a financial product was not the same? That bit?

MA did not try to become a bank, but set up Mind bank AB (a subsidiary company to operate their banking licence).

Notice how no actual banking functions were implemented? No cash card, no unsecured PED loans, no savings accounts, no partial fund investments? Ever wonder why that might be - the fact that they would have to adhere and comply to financial regulations, opening a whole can of worms on the way they treat activities, items & accounts?

The idea that it could happen isn't far fetched, it just isn't true. MA are operating as a game, entertainment product, service, whatever you want to call it, not as a financial institution, and therefore have to comply with data protection laws which are appropriate to the business that they run.
 
one year is ridiculous. 5 years of being inactive and THEN a deletion would be fine.

say NO to one year!
 
LMTR14 said:
one year is ridiculous. 5 years of being inactive and THEN a deletion would be fine.

say NO to one year!
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tell it to the pres
 
LMTR14 said:
one year is ridiculous. 5 years of being inactive and THEN a deletion would be fine.

say NO to one year!
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Too late. You don't get a say in it.
 
Anyway, in closing, I'll just say that there is nothing that justifies MA seizing assets and reducing their value to TT value.

This has already been proven by HunterZ and Nostrop's gang when MA was forced to auction thier items instead of siezing them.

Ask Star if he wouldn't sue MA if this happened to his account.

Only the "virtual" poor are vulnerable to this shady practice.
 
Dab said:
Anyway, in closing, I'll just say that there is nothing that justifies MA seizing assets and reducing their value to TT value.

This has already been proven by HunterZ and Nostrop's gang when MA was forced to auction thier items instead of siezing them.

Ask Star if he wouldn't sue MA if this happened to his account.

Only the "virtual" poor are vulnerable to this shady practice.
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Considering it's a RCE I would totally agree.
I do not have the appetite however to continue the debate.

Rick
 
Dab said:
Anyway, in closing, I'll just say that there is nothing that justifies MA seizing assets and reducing their value to TT value.

This has already been proven by HunterZ and Nostrop's gang when MA was forced to auction thier items instead of siezing them.

Ask Star if he wouldn't sue MA if this happened to his account.

Only the "virtual" poor are vulnerable to this shady practice.
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HunterZ and Nostrop were banned for botting, I don't see how you can parallel the two.

You're not vulnerable to any shady practice - you've been told up front please dedicate 10 seconds of your precious time per year to keep your account active. You have the same rights as anyone else - any lawsuit would be instantly thrown out when the ToU is repeated to the judge.
 
Glad I noticed this before I came back from a long break I don't think I'll be bothering now... God forbid I should have a period of illness or some other RL event that takes me away from a PC for any length of time. There are lots of us over 40's ingame and shit really does happen you never know what is around the corner. MA are shady as fuck. See ya.
 
FatherJack said:
Glad I noticed this before I came back from a long break I don't think I'll be bothering now... God forbid I should have a period of illness or some other RL event that takes me away from a PC for any length of time. There are lots of us over 40's ingame and shit really does happen you never know what is around the corner. MA are shady as fuck. See ya.
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True, so shady announcing it publicly & e-mailing every single account with an update.

Just so underhanded.
 
atomicstorm said:
Too late. You don't get a say in it.
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Wrong. Every player that created account before new ToU and didn't logged after the new ToU, the new ToU is not applied to them, since they never agreed with it :).
 
Well I haven't logged in an a couple of months and they are already fckin with me. First I have to create a new forum account here! and now the Webportal will not let me log in.

There must be a lot of cash locked up on accounts and they are effectively trying to take it. If they do, its tantamount to theft. This is real money and no different to bank saying hey you havent called in a year, you money is mine.
 
I've been a player on and off since 2007 or 2009. Anyway they have already started this stupid attempt at theft.

My account details are apparently "not valid" and when I try to reset password I do not get any email. It has only been a couple of month since I last logged in!!

I can tell you now, all my deposits are registered on my bank account going back years so if support do not get my account sorted I will take this to court.

How desperate or low can they go? This isn't just a regular multiplayer game, this is real money. Not even gambling sites delete accounts after years you just get them "unlocked".
 
It's really not much to ask you to spend 30 seconds ever 90 days to log into your account to keep it active. I don't see the problem.
 
e-lite said:
It's really not much to ask you to spend 30 seconds ever 90 days to log into your account to keep it active. I don't see the problem.
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obvious.jpg


I do see the problem.
 
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Most online games that I know of save data forever, provided that they haven't shut the servers down. People with an active account would be more likely to rejoin knowing their old character was preserved. I've successfully rejoined games over 10+ years after I've quit. Server space is irrelevant; the contents of most character data would be a few MBs at most.

e-lite said:
It's really not much to ask you to spend 30 seconds ever 90 days to log into your account to keep it active. I don't see the problem.
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What about:
-military duty
-prison (guilty or not)
-extended hospital stay
-major computer failure
-catastrophe (hurricane/earthquake)
-divorce (spouse owns computer)
-homelessness
 
it kind of stupid to delet account i have spent 1000 of dollars and if i dont log in a year there going to delete it

might as well sell my account so they dont delete my 200k skills

if they need space like that they should put it a month top that way they dont have to give nothing

anyway i run a business and the one that spend money you try to keep them info even they dont spend for year you never know when there to start spending againg

also they only have to give back last 6 month of depo why why delete poeple accounts
 
bard119 said:
Most online games that I know of save data forever, provided that they haven't shut the servers down. People with an active account would be more likely to rejoin knowing their old character was preserved. I've successfully rejoined games over 10+ years after I've quit. Server space is irrelevant; the contents of most character data would be a few MBs at most.



What about:
-military duty
-prison (guilty or not)
-extended hospital stay
-major computer failure
-catastrophe (hurricane/earthquake)
-divorce (spouse owns computer)
-homelessness
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100% with this!

Accounts should consider independent in every case. Something like the conditions, in the issue of free Gold Card (over 3000 PED in an account, getting the right of free card or something similar to this).
People who have an decent amount of money in their account, should be protected, instead of locked out.
Otherwise, I feel will be in a very "stinky" situation and that would make some lawyers happy.
I already suffer from such policy elsewhere, while I was in hospital in critical condition for about +3 months!!!! I locked out, lost great deal of money and left from another virtual world for this reason. This time, if anything similar takes place, I will not hesitate to find out my legal rights.

PS. This MMO probably have high "age per average" in playerbase! So, probability for people that might need medical care or to face other serious RL issues, for long period of time, is very high! That might be in MA's consideration.
 
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bard119 said:
...
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Totally agree. While the cited situations are extremes and should hopefully be rare, it is exactly for these that a "virtual home" is an invaluable tool for reconvalescence or boosting spirit. Especially after having one's real life shattered, finding one's mental retreat also gone is just heartbreaking. For those not affected, the outlook of ever being in such a situation makes one search for possible solutions, and this is one. I met more people with a serious handicap in virtual worlds than outside. It is more than a game.

Now, shedding tears into a camera doesn't move bureaucrats (maybe privately but they always pretend they can't do anything about it). The rule change has nothing to do with space consumed in databases. Storage space is dirt cheap. They are referring to some rulings, probably coming out of the non-elected Brussels busybodies. It would be good to know this more exactly, because trying to find anything between the legalese on official EU websites is less fun than a having a root canal done.

If our community manager would be so kind and convey that this a serious concern asking for remedy, perhaps in form of an insurance one could purchase for a reasonable fee as suggested above. Thanks.
 
e-lite said:
It's really not much to ask you to spend 30 seconds ever 90 days to log into your account to keep it active. I don't see the problem.
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self deleted. It's not simply not worth worrying about, what you cannot control.

Rick
 
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I do believe 1 year is acceptable as you only have to log in. If you really care about you account you will find the time to do this. If cant you can always get someone else to log on for you (wife, child etc). I would like to think if you contact MA they will keep it open for special reasons if they contact if you cant log in game for a year. Has to be good reason like you going to be hospitalized for a year and have no family for example.

Now when it comes to death if there is now one you trust, you can leave all details in letter with all codes, items and who to sell to. Then beneficiary will also have access to bank account and can sell you your account items them selves.

What i would like to know is that what happens to high mu items if cant access to account? I would like to think they would go into Global AH and be sold. MA would still notably take a cut. I believe they done this before, what what is limit of the mu has to be?
 
bigdaddy trim said:
What i would like to know is that what happens to high mu items if cant access to account? I would like to think they would go into Global AH and be sold. MA would still notably take a cut. I believe they done this before, what what is limit of the mu has to be?
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The liquidation avatar does exist... Perhaps write up some policies on it's uses, etc... maybe even set it up so you can 'cut a deal' with that avatar so that he'll step in and auction all your stuff off after you stop logging in for x amount of time (due to death, etc.) and Mindark then will pay out the funds from the auctions to whatever bank, paypal, etc. account they have on file for you/your estate?... maybe even do some special stuff... like 'will' certain assets you specify to other members of your society that you tell them to, certain other folks in the society that you feel deserve said item after your death in the real world, etc.
 
I so wanted to give a bunch of people +reps here, but am not allowed before I "spread some more"...

meh...
 
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