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Notice regarding ToU changes

How about a launcher button option

Freeze my account, please

instead of wasting support resources over time.
 
Wollongong said:
Edit: as a precaution, I have just made a withdrawal request for my "ingame savings". With luck, I will have the money before they delete my account.
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:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Thankyou for the morning chuckle, that made me spit out my coffee laughing.

From 360 days to 90 seems like a drastic change though.
 
Wollongong said:
Edit: as a precaution, I have just made a withdrawal request for my "ingame savings". With luck, I will have the money before they delete my account.
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Very valid point. Wonder if the withdrawal time will get shorter with this change... Would be nice if they made the deposits and withdrawals via paypal a permanent feature and only took 24 hours or less to make them happen.
 
RickEngland said:
If you own deeds or other items worth considerable ped in MU, then 90 days is simply not acceptable.

What if you die and it takes your family 3 months to try and sort assets out ...or longer.
What if you're seriously ill for 3 months plus.
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That's exactly I was thinking... I once got seriously ill for four months without internet access.
 
Grey Ilieco said:
Hi!
I have to stress that if you allow old avatar names to be re-used after termination of accounts, there _will_ be cases where people go through entropialife and forums to find old names with some credibility and reputation to them, and make avatars to impersonate these.

I just had to mention, and i spread this concern in-game too.
(Other than that, I think a cleanup may be due!)
Cheers!

---------------
I sent this as a support ticket (Account and fund transfer - Activation or closure) just now.
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In case anyone reading this has shared my concern - I got answer from support.
They say names can never be re-used. :cool::yup:
(If that means you cannot get your name back after avatar is deleted, is not clear from the answer. )
 
Meg said:
How about a launcher button option

Freeze my account, please

instead of wasting support resources over time.
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That'd waste support resources on unfreezing all those people who will rage-freeze themselves after a bad run.
 
Admiral said:
Does mobile app like Virtual Tycoon apply as loging into entropia universe ,Ludving mindark answer
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No, only logging in via the Entropia Universe client software will keep the account active.


Fiona Simmons said:
What does this inactive after 90 days mean anyways ? What is the difference between a acitve and inactive account ?
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The account being flagged as "inactive" is simply a status flag and will not affect the account beyond that.

To reactivate the account, you simply have to log in via the Entropia Universe client software again.


Few Scars said:
They are making a change to the TOU. For current players who accepted the old TOU when they opened an account the old 750 days should still be valid. Else, they should state that this takes effect from a specific date.

Ludwig, can you answer these questions as the MA rep?
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If you have not logged in since before the change, the old terms (750 days) still apply.
 
Ludvig|MindArk said:
If you have not logged in since before the change, the old terms (750 days) still apply.
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Good to know! This was not the case in 2004, perhaps things were a bit more haphazard back when :)
 
Ludvig|MindArk said:
If you have not logged in since before the change, the old terms (750 days) still apply.
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Maybe this has to be made even more clear: Even just logging in once makes you accept the new terms. By being presented with the current ToU and forced to click "Accept" every single time, every rolling change is accepted by you, your only other choice being to quit right then and there. You don't get to live on with the terms you accepted upon signing up. Only if you never login again and last time you did was before the change, do you still get 750 days.
 
Although it's unlikely most long term players would allow a year to pass before logging in, it's still a scary thought that ten years of skilling can be just be deleted including all items 'gone' once your account is considered as abandoned.

There was a time that the worst case was all your items were converted to TT value, but the skills remained.

I'm just sitting here thinking that I recently put 11 months of my whole life "every spare moment I had" into a pet that could be just deleted. Somehow that feels even worse than having any deeds I hold deleted, we are not long on the planet.

Feeling financial pain is one thing, having your invested "time" ava and pets deleted, for what really is a "virtual world", would be a huge shock.

I don't even want to think about it. I'd rather pay a fee to maintain the account, than feel an immense amount of emotional "loss" and grief if that happened.

These lawyers need to understand it's not a 'game', it's a virtual world. It could be argued that MA have a duty to maintain peoples virtual lives. That would be an interesting court case.


They did create the situation to start with that we could have a virtual life and sold it to us on that basis. What a complete load of bollocks virtual rights and the President of the Virtual Reality is. They sell it like our online lives matter....when it all means nothing.


Rick

ps: what really p***es me off, is again it's all just' about money.
 
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I think people need to chill out.

If you don't have time to login to Entropia once (for 5 seconds) in a whole year, you probably don't care about the game anymore. I include people with "serious illness" here too - there is no chance that in a whole year you would not be able to login, or get someone to login for you.

So I think perhaps cutting the hyperbole down a touch would be useful... I for one am pleased my "sisters account" will get wiped every year, I know where I'm putting my Neuro Y's ;)
 
RickEngland said:
These lawyers need to understand it's not a 'game', it's a virtual world. It could be argued that MA have a duty to maintain peoples virtual lives. That would be an interesting court case.
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buildfuture.jpg


https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?140413-Entropia-not-a-game-who-said-that
 
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Aio said:
I think people need to chill out.

If you don't have time to login to Entropia once (for 5 seconds) in a whole year, you probably don't care about the game anymore. I include people with "serious illness" here too - there is no chance that in a whole year you would not be able to login, or get someone to login for you.

So I think perhaps cutting the hyperbole down a touch would be useful... I for one am pleased my "sisters account" will get wiped every year, I know where I'm putting my Neuro Y's ;)
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Depends on your technical situation... Many, many years ago when they updated to ce2 a lot of folks had computers that couldn't handle it... very easy in some situation like that to not log in if you have no computer that can technically get you past the login screen. In those types of situations if you don't have the funds to go buy a computer within 90 days to a year you'd be sol even if you had a cell phone with the app on it, etc.
 
Aio said:
I think people need to chill out.

If you don't have time to login to Entropia once (for 5 seconds) in a whole year, you probably don't care about the game anymore. I include people with "serious illness" here too - there is no chance that in a whole year you would not be able to login, or get someone to login for you.

So I think perhaps cutting the hyperbole down a touch would be useful... I for one am pleased my "sisters account" will get wiped every year, I know where I'm putting my Neuro Y's ;)
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mastermesh said:
Depends on your technical situation... Many, many years ago when they updated to ce2 a lot of folks had computers that couldn't handle it... very easy in some situation like that to not log in if you have no computer that can technically get you past the login screen. In those types of situations if you don't have the funds to go buy a computer within 90 days to a year you'd be sol even if you had a cell phone with the app on it, etc.
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Well; in addition, the bigger issue is a continued gradual erosion of virtual life rights, the complete opposite of what MA said when they pushed the "President" stuff.

Our virtual lives matter or they don't.....what is it?

Rick

Edit: PS: Are you reading this MA lawyers? I'm sure you have legal obligation to not take advantage of those that cannot or do not know how to protect themselves.....Mmmm.
 
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RickEngland said:
Well; in addition, the bigger issue is a continued gradual erosion of virtual life rights, the complete opposite of what MA said when they pushed the "President" stuff.

Our virtual lives matter or they don't.....what is it?
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It's all fun and games until someone forgets that we all are merely customers of an online business. Our rights are limited to receiving the proper amount of peds for our $, and vice versa once our contract with the business is over for some reason or other.

Come to think of it, it's way more rights than we have in our real lives, where we come and go naked :)
 
San said:
They don't. In all empathy, it is entirely subjective.
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Real lives is just empathy too, and since virtual lives are controlled by an active consciousness that can feel emotional loss and pain. Then it matters.

It's very interesting as it goes because we will get to a point that VR is so real, it actually becomes part of us. Very Next generation holo-deck (Star Trek), at what point does something that you react with become important.

You might not own a tree down the road, but you can protect it from destruction, because it has value to those in the community.

What happens when we prove that the real world is virtual. It's a VR inside a VR, inside a VR.

What happens if MA was to go bankrupt but humanity has a duty to protect those lives that are effected by that, and someone is forced to turn on the servers for the sake of humanity....smiles.

It's a new legal mindfield, that really needs 'judicial' review, there is no laws.

I call for rights.....where is Neverdie?

Rick
 
Oh please, don't bring the political correctness bullshit into this forum.

If you can't invest 10 seconds to login in a full year (or get someone to do it for you), your account deserves to be deleted. You can still ask support to lock your account and have 750 days or whatever if you predict huge problems in your life.
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
Oh please, don't bring the political correctness bullshit into this forum.

If you can't invest 10 seconds to login in a full year (or get someone to do it for you), your account deserves to be deleted. You can still ask support to lock your account and have 750 days or whatever if you predict huge problems in your life.
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Well whatever, things will change when AI can think and feel. Someone will get done for murder if they turn the servers off. Anyway it's about our "rights".

It's worth fighting for, even though MA will do whatever they want. Why just bend over? Why not fight?

Rick
 
RickEngland said:
Why just bend over? Why not fight?
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Bend over to what? Fight for what? The changes make perfect sense and the ToU remains fair, you just seem to be bored today.

Whatever, let's take the streets !! Virtual Lives Matter, new movement.
#VLM #SJW #Triggered
 
Well, there was no such thing as Human Rights before sufficient lobbying made it a universally accepted standard (in reality, still not in the entire world, as competing "universal" standards continue to exist).

Maybe majority opinion will bring about changes some day in a similar fashion, but until then, everything your mind produces and you consider part of your personality, has the value of pure vanity from a legal point of view. You have no legal foot to stand on for demanding of others the upkeep of any supporting infrastructure it needs to exist. It remains only for as long as you fulfill your contractual obligations and as long as your service provider continues its operations.
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
Bend over to what? Fight for what? The changes make perfect sense and the ToU remains fair, you just seem to be bored today.

Whatever, let's take the streets !! Virtual Lives Matter, new movement.
#VLM #SJW #Triggered
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ha,ha,hh,ha....you're correct I am bored. I got 3 more hours to burn.

The question remains though: why do it? There's always a purpose and always a consequence. You or I just don't see it yet, as it's not affected us. But some day it might, as the erosion continues to degrade the original TOU in MA favour.

Next year it will be 6 months....couple of years later 3 months to abandonment. forever shrinking liability. The more it reduces the more players it effects.

Anyway I've got a point; "Become a citizen of Calypso, and President of Virtual reality", it's still meaningless if it has no purpose for citizen rights and protection.


Rick
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
Oh please, don't bring the political correctness bullshit into this forum.

If you can't invest 10 seconds to login in a full year (or get someone to do it for you), your account deserves to be deleted. You can still ask support to lock your account and have 750 days or whatever if you predict huge problems in your life.
Click to expand...

*slow clap*
 
RickEngland said:
Next year it will be 6 months....couple of years later 3 months to abandonment. forever shrinking liability. The more it reduces the more players it effects.
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No it absolutely won't you hysterical bell-end.

Utter ridiculousness, your "virtual rights" what the actual fuck.

As someone has previously said, this is all bourne from the European Parliament, specifically with the GDPR 2016/679 regulation. Even more specifically, it is to do with an update to the "Right to be Forgotten" terminology to "Right to Erasure". The regulations are in force from May 2018 - and require any company handling more than 5,000 data sets to appoint a data protection officer and actively protect data.

There is no minimum (nor maximum) span for data retention, however, the company (not the customer/client/user) must comply with:

  • review the length of time you keep personal data;
  • consider the purpose or purposes you hold the information for in deciding whether (and for how long) to retain it;
  • securely delete information that is no longer needed for this purpose or these purposes; and
  • update, archive or securely delete information if it goes out of date.

Specifically, the last point would be excessively hard to manage with a 750 day account expiration.

Therefore, MA would want themselves to be fully compliant by May 2018, which means 1 year account purges from May 2017. They themselves have appointed a law firm to update the ToU and I would guess than someone has been drafted in (or has taken the additional responsibilities of) data protection officer. As low as we all think active EU participants are, I'm sure we can all appreciate MA have more than 5,000 accounts.

So, before we all start shouting "VIRTUAL RIGHTS FOR VIRTUAL PEOPLE" - and blaming MA for surreptitiously stealing our items & skills in the entirely hypothetical scenario of serious illness, death, forgetfulness, not being able to login because our fingers have been cut off and mashing our noses into the keyboard doesn't work - like utter cretins...

How about we all ground ourselves in the real world rather than the make-believe?
 
After perusing the new regulation cited by Aio, I find nothing there that would require them to close an account after 365 days.

In fact, the regulation is all about personal data protection ie. Name, address, phone number, credit card data etc.

MA is saying they will convert assets to Peds after 1 year. How does this protect personal data?

In fact, wouldn't MA be forced to not delete the personal data if the account holder is ever to withdraw the money from EU?
 
Dab said:
After perusing the new regulation cited by Aio, I find nothing there that would require them to close an account after 365 days.

In fact, the regulation is all about personal data protection ie. Name, address, phone number, credit card data etc.

MA is saying they will convert assets to Peds after 1 year. How does this protect personal data?

In fact, wouldn't MA be forced to not delete the personal data if the account holder is ever to withdraw the money from EU?
Click to expand...

No.

Aio said:
update, archive or securely delete information if it goes out of date.
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On account lock, MA are archiving the data. On account unlock, MA will re-instate this data as current (with an update of personal photo ID, as per usual).

Please read. As written, there is no min/max, however, there is a requirement to make sure that all account information is up-to-date. An account period expiration of 1 year would be reasonable. 750 days would not be.
 
Why does archiving the personal data require them to liquidate assets to TT value?
 
Dab said:
Why does archiving the personal data require them to liquidate assets to TT value?
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To remove the items from the game and make them available to others. To store less data. To not put items into archive. Use your head.
 
Dab said:
Why does archiving the personal data require them to liquidate assets to TT value?
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It's hard for me to say definitively considering I don't work for MA, but if an account has an item (or estate) then for those to be assigned to the account, the account would have to exist.

You can't archive the ownership of an Opalo, for example, because that Opalo also has its data and that data should not be removed from the game. It's shown that items are recycled in the loot pool (identical TIRs).

Skillpoints are the same - when MA archive your personal data, I'm sure they don't also have a system (nor would they need to) to archive skills.

Archiving PED value linked to the account, is far easier, as a) PEDs don't exist (they're a datastring) and b) on account reactivation they can be created out of thin air (as opposed to another item being placed in the pool).

Archiving:

Joe Bloggs, Address, Email, Nationality, Tel Number, PED=1000 is far easier than the same data, plus 158 discreet skill values.

Items I'm easier with here, but skills I guess it's just lack of a system on MA's part (if they had to manually replace skills, think of the effort of just 10 re-activations).
 
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