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Do we all have the same chance for loot?

i could be wrong but here is my thought on it.

it says increase 25% rare loot chance.
my buff for run speed also says 25%
my trauma mitigation also says 25% (the only one i can confirm accuracy for. (if i get hit for 100, i have 25% mitigated)
if i have 100 shot per minute on my gun and 25% reload speed buff I now have 125 shots.

so my thought would be everything else is based on 100% scale. why would the soto find 25% be based upon that same scale. (not 25% of your current ability but out of 100% that is possible)

as i said i could be wrong. i see both sides of this arguement
 
eSoul said:
So the personal loot chance can be modified! So there's a personal loot pool and MA can change it when they want for who they want!
Click to expand...

ahem.. i know desperately that you want to find some magical smoking gun here.. but..... mindark has said there are no personal loot pools.

Next loot theory please.

Can't believe we are arguing about the application of a percentage. It's as Aio says.
 
eSoul said:
if you have 0% and you add 25% its 25% total, if you have 25% and add 25% its 50%, just when you multiply for 25% your statement is true! Even you don't tell me if there is personal chances or Not as stated by MA, not me!
Click to expand...


25% of 0 is 0.
 
Sigh... really wish they went with something less controversial for the Christmas Ring, like +100 Depth. Why did they have to use the words "Loot Chance". You really don't know your playerbase at all MA :duh:
 
"Increase rare mining finds: Increases the chances of finding something out of the ordinary when mining"


That's what the buff's description is, if anyone was wondering.
 
sachi.mk2 said:
"Increase rare mining finds: Increases the chances of finding something out of the ordinary when mining"


That's what the buff's description is, if anyone was wondering.
Click to expand...

The buffs description seems vague in nature.
 
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sachi.mk2 said:
The buffs description seems vague in nature, because the playerbase probably can't agree what impacts on finding "something out of the ordinary" that to conclude anything is pure speculation.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna go ahead and assume it's when you get the message "You have found something out of the ordinary...".

Just a hunch.
 
sachi.mk2 said:
"Increase rare mining finds: Increases the chances of finding something out of the ordinary when mining"


That's what the buff's description is, if anyone was wondering.
Click to expand...

Aio said:
I'm gonna go ahead and assume it's when you get the message "You have found something out of the ordinary!".

Just a hunch.
Click to expand...

Sure, and what impacts that message occuring.
 
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give it a few days and they'll probably change the wording on it, just as they did with the clds and apartment deeds many years ago when they implied ownership.
 
sachi.mk2 said:
Sure, and what impacts that message occuring. It's abit like the skill mod % of scope and sights, numbers that can't be proven to do anything, no matter what MA says. They say those effect hit rate depending on range of the shot, but impossible to prove so far.
Click to expand...

Well it's not impossible to prove, I think 5$ is cooking something up in that regard.

Numbers are exactly that; usually we just know 1 part of the equation. Data is needed to divine the second (third, fourth) part.

E.G. Critical hit. We now know, for certain, that "natural" CH is 1%. We know, that focus blow adds % points per point of focus blow.

How do we know? Logging CH/shots * 100.

The exact same thing will be done by a miner w/ and w/out the Xmas ring. From that, we can estimate the baseline or natural rate of SOO.

The only issue is that the data will be noisier, as it is a "loot" event and not a "dmg" event. Still possible, though.
 
mastermesh said:
give it a few days and they'll probably change the wording on it, just as they did with the clds and apartment deeds many years ago when they implied ownership.
Click to expand...

Didn't affect the payout though and the lock didn't change on my apartment. :silly2:
 
Aio said:
Well it's not impossible to prove, I think 5$ is cooking something up in that regard.

Numbers are exactly that; usually we just know 1 part of the equation. Data is needed to divine the second (third, fourth) part.

E.G. Critical hit. We now know, for certain, that "natural" CH is 1%. We know, that focus blow adds % points per point of focus blow.

How do we know? Logging CH/shots * 100.

The exact same thing will be done by a miner w/ and w/out the Xmas ring. From that, we can estimate the baseline or natural rate of SOO.

The only issue is that the data will be noisier, as it is a "loot" event and not a "dmg" event. Still possible, though.
Click to expand...

I replied to a thread with a totally different title.
 
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sachi.mk2 said:
Sure, and what impacts that message occuring. It's abit like the skill mod % of scope and sights, numbers that can't be proven to do anything, no matter what MA says. They say those effect hit rate depending on range of the shot, but impossible to prove so far.
Click to expand...

Not impossible. I proved a conclusion... I will share in the next 2 weeks when I plot it on a graph.
 
eSoul said:
if you have 0% and you add 25% its 25% total, if you have 25% and add 25% its 50%, just when you multiply for 25% your statement is true! Even you don't tell me if there is personal chances or Not as stated by MA, not me!
Click to expand...

You are right here in the first post and this post. for that +25% we need to have it based on some server side value that MA says is not there yet here it is plan and simple. Of course MA can come in and say that they will soon be re-writing the entire system but I don't think so. I do believe we do have Personal loot pools yet MA says we don't because they call it something else and by that they are not lying.

Also before others jump in on this, I think what ever that server side value is, it is based on the overall skills of a given player. So the ring just gives one 25% more of what ever skill is linked to better loot. (but still I like saying we have a personal loot pool)
 
I've always had a suspicion that Pro levels and possibly ranks open loots of rare items.

I've got many professions into high 70's during my 10+ years here. But when I see players posting they're level 170 or higher and I've never looted one single cool weapon or armour part, the law of averages say something like that is going on.

That doesn't mean you can't loot a decent amount of peds of course. I've had a 6K loot, loads of 1K etc.

Or maybe big item drops are compensation for huge losses. EU works in wonderful ways to keep people ticking over and continuing to play.

I also often wonder if ranks (not profs) give you more of a material in hunting loots. Say you get 2 socket components in a loot, at a higher rank you might loot 4.

Who knows.

Back on topic, I try to avoid strongboxes....but maybe that works on pro levels too. I do a few now and then, but I didn't join EU to play fruit machines. I prefer the skilling.

You got to remember that some of these players are opening an insane amount of boxes. Now if they own LA's or have other EU income coming in, then maybe they withdraw and deposit again to enable them to open boxes. When I say insane....I mean dollars that's probably at the value of my entire years mortgage payments or more....lol

I guess there're the few that get lucky now and then, with just a few boxes.

Rick
 
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eSoul said:
So the personal loot chance can be modified! So there's a personal loot pool and MA can change it when they want for who they want!
Click to expand...

It can still be the same pool, but difference chance of getting good returns from it.
 
sachi.mk2 said:
"Increase rare mining finds: Increases the chances of finding something out of the ordinary when mining"


That's what the buff's description is, if anyone was wondering.
Click to expand...

Probably have been stated by others already, but I'm guessing its something like this...

10k drops (without ring) --> No. of SOOTOs = X
10k drops (with ring) --> No. of SOOTOs = Y

where Y = 1.25 X

(but since we're talking about dynamic MA loot system, so most probably its gonna be approximate and not exact.)
 
Careful before jumping to conclusions. As I understand it, it only improves the chance of finding those SOOTO "something out of the ordinary" things. I don't think they mean by "rare mining loot" Dunkel and other valuable, but regular resources. It stands to reason to assume that the allocation logic for SOOTO items is out of the ordinary loot algorithm, too. But I also find that there is way too much room for assumption and speculation and they should strive for more precise wording in their announcements.
 
sachi.mk2 said:
The buffs description seems vague in nature, because the playerbase probably can't agree what impacts on finding "something out of the ordinary" that to conclude anything is pure speculation.
Click to expand...

Everything MA says is vague in nature, and open to multiple interpretations. no one player is 100% correct, unless they are given access to the source code and the breaker box.
 
sawachika said:
Probably have been stated by others already, but I'm guessing its something like this...

10k drops (without ring) --> No. of SOOTOs = X
10k drops (with ring) --> No. of SOOTOs = Y

where Y = 1.25 X

(but since we're talking about dynamic MA loot system, so most probably its gonna be approximate and not exact.)
Click to expand...


I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head. But with ark and the numerous(ish) sootos you get. (all those now worthless containers) It may be possible to test.


Rgds

Ace
 
RickEngland said:
I've always had a suspicion that Pro levels and possibly ranks open loots of rare items.

I've got many professions into high 70's during my 10+ years here. But when I see players posting they're level 170 or higher and I've never looted one single cool weapon or armour part, the law of averages say something like that is going on.

That doesn't mean you can't loot a decent amount of peds of course. I've had a 6K loot, loads of 1K etc.

Or maybe big item drops are compensation for huge losses. EU works in wonderful ways to keep people ticking over and continuing to play.

I also often wonder if ranks (not profs) give you more of a material in hunting loots. Say you get 2 socket components in a loot, at a higher rank you might loot 4.

Who knows.

Back on topic, I try to avoid strongboxes....but maybe that works on pro levels too. I do a few now and then, but I didn't join EU to play fruit machines. I prefer the skilling.

You got to remember that some of these players are opening an insane amount of boxes. Now if they own LA's or have other EU income coming in, then maybe they withdraw and deposit again to enable them to open boxes. When I say insane....I mean dollars that's probably at the value of my entire years mortgage payments or more....lol

I guess there're the few that get lucky now and then, with just a few boxes.

Rick
Click to expand...
My guess is that both skills and attributes have a influence in loot tables.
The higher the better *chance* to get something good, not a guarantee though.
I also believe there is a cap for this at 10k, due to how system both works now
and in the past.
So if we have high PS doesn't mean we automatically have higher chance to get the
better stuff in loot, its when we have high PS with most skills around 10k the chance
get way higher.
Then we have attributes, who extremely few will get higher than 200 in, which means
they have same influence as a skill at 4k. That's 40% of max, and when looking around
at different avatars, 130-140 is still high, that means they have 26-28% chance of
best stuff.
If it is like this, no one will ever max their chance to get best stuff in loot.
Imo this is the reason why MA more or less killed gains of attributes the natural way
when they are above 110.
This is also the reason why they want skill trading to be expensive.
They just don't want a situation where we have players in God mode when it comes
to what they loot... even though some are close to that already. :silly2:
 
Why do people bring up old MA posts about personal loot pool etc? It's not valid anymore. :p

Should i bring up Marcos post about items never getting their stats changed after they get implemented ingame?

New staff, new CEO, new system ingame to adapt to. Old one lost money while new one has to plug the holes to keep the company running.

Just find MA's post on how they changed Mentor rewards and how it now works with "stages".

Need X amounts of graduates to unlock a % to aquire Y

But no I do not believe in personal lootpool tbh. And that everyone have the same "chance" for loot. But what's stated on paper on how the system actually works, oh that rule can be bent so much.

Atleast Ark will get alot of miners on Treasure Hunting with the xmas ring :)
 
Personally I believe and always have believed. The game works like MA says with a few exceptions.

1. Because the company live on the money they receive from the players so theoretically should players lose more than they put in, because the company needs its share of the money.

2. The company also needs to prove that they can succeed in the game otherwise would would no one have played it.

This means that there must be a Happiness Factor that gives some avatars a greater chance to succeed.

This means that everyone has an equal chance but still do not have it because the chance is in the selection process to become the avatar that succeeds or not and not what you do in the in the game.

Its how the game works in its entirety but it also has a chance to succeed if you buy up estates like LA:s.
 
eSoul said:
As stated before by MA, there is No Personal Loot Pool, but it looks like they can change our loot chance for each individual. After the new Christmas Ring 2016, with more 25% chance of rare mining loot, i wonder if they can change that value for each individual if they can do it by a ring they can do it with code too...

I think they should come to explain all about loot again. Do we all have the same chance or not? Do they change manually the chance for each player? I hope Dev's to come Forum to explain this features As soon as possible.

Regards,

eSoul

The Original Title was: Should we trust MA?

Changed by a moderator who ever he was!
Click to expand...

*Sigh* :duh: OK, let's try to explain this:

In all activities, all possible loot that can be had (I.E. loot table on a mob, ore/matter/treasure in a specific mined location, res/items/bps from a specific bp, etc.) are placed in a list and each is classified as "common", "uncommon", "rare", "legendary", etc. (Don't argue with the exact wording I used, you get the idea.)

All those classifications are, is a base percentage to loot that specific item during a loot phase.
For example, imagine rolling 100,000 dice. If hunting dasp and all dice roll 6 in same roll, you get a mod merc (or whatever legendary loot has qty>1 at that time). Rest of TT value of loot in that moment is usually just given in common value. Rarely, you can even get multiple "rare" classifications at same time. Lucky you.

Head spinner alert: Those base chances can even be dynamically affected by the amount of activity in the given area.

Now yes, under specific situations, the base chance of those classifications can be augmented even further. In those cases, the chance of getting other than common loot in each affected loot action is greater or lower.

So, yes, you noticed they can use ingame mechanics to augment the chance of what the TT value of loot consists of. (The overall TT return of loot is simply based on total player activity.)

Does this mean that there is a specific personal loot pool? Nope. Only that under specific situations, chances to loot can be adjusted, either on a location, action(mob/mine/craft) or avatar level.

Entropias Most Wanted hunts dasps a ton more than I do. So his personal loot pol is not the same as mine, only because our actions are different. But if we both hunted the same mob, assuming we killed at the same rate of speed than yes, we would both have the same base chances on our loot. Maybe I'll get more lucky and the RNG will favor me today.

Now, in this specific case you are asking about, yes. The ring does carry a modifier to mining loot actions that slightly increases the chances of a SOOTO event.

However, you can take 10 players, each drop 1 probe while wearing the ring, than transfer the ring to the next player, who then drops a probe, hands off, etc. and in those 10 drops, IF a SOOTO occurs, it will be luck on which of those avatars got it, because they all had the same chance in the end.
 
In the end, I don't give a damn how loot distribution is implemented -- I want it to be BUG FREE and FAIR!
Everything in EU has had bugs at one time or other, therefore it's statistically impossible for the loot system to never have had any bugs. Maybe more precise wording would be "a bug that affects the loot distribution"...
Obviously, some of the bugs benefit players, others do not. MindArk doesn't notice because their bottom line doesn't change... and when it does, instead of fixing the bugs that skew the system, they adjust some numbers and drop rates which in the end just makes things worse for some.
MindArk really should audit several dozen different avatars every few months to verify and confirm no one is gaining or losing unfairly for whatever reason.
 
Fairness in loot, for me, has never been under question.

Of course there are those who complain when the same player gets 2 rare drops in a row... but oddly those complainers are nowhere when that player gets nothing for a year.

I don't believe there are any major bugs which exist (wrt looting) for anyone, as we all operate on the same server conditions.

Anyone thinking you have a personal difference in loot chance thanks to skill / whatever just needs to look at shared loot drops, day-1 noobie ubers, etc.

Same with "personal loot pools" - how could they possibly exist, if someone can loot more than they have put in? If that is the case, then you say the personal loot pool draws from other people's loot pools, and therefore it is a shared loot pool overall.
 
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