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Info: Is eco ALL you need? Test

Me Really Never said:
so. you want to tell me, that when you kill 10 times a 10 hp mob with a gun that costs 50 pec per shot and your return on all 10 mobs is between 1 and 3 pec (average loot on punys) that this is no evidence? how much more do you need? do you want to kill 100.000 of those mobs to see the same outcome? if the result is within the limits of an expected result then u dont need thousands of loot events to confirm it. its easy as that. thats the way it works in science. if you cant come to a conclusion or the data variance is too big then you need lots of loot events to confirm your theory (e.g. average return tt wise)

and just fyi. saying 2,95 dpp is a bad eco is simply false. it depends on the dps also. yes, you can get 2,95 dpp setup for low level hunting (<100 hp) very cheap and (<300 hp) fairly cheap. but if you want to get a 2,95 dpp ranged weapon with 40 dps you need to invest a few k peds. if u want the same with 60 dps you need to invest a few ten k peds. and im not talking bout dmg enhancer here
Click to expand...

Killing 10 mobs is hard evidence that you can kill 10 mobs. AND THAT's IT!
what if you get a multiplier in the first mob? what if you get a 1k multi in the first mob? It will tell you nothing.
look what a graph with 2.975 eco looks like if you kill stuff daily (575k ped ped total turnover jan-aug 2016 - ~97% tt return)
86ca3429dc314935977892f87a8e3c30.png


Also - bad eco is bad eco. it does not depend on dps. Ofc you should not kill warlocks with barbarella


mastermesh said:
stop hunting til 'busy time' is here... At the moment, Mayhem is continuing so loot is probably actually better than normal... That will 'normalize' in a bit when that 'event season' is over and the next month or so after the 'leftover loot' from it is cleared out of the pool.
Click to expand...

Advice to stop hunting during X period and start hunting during Y period - coming from a guy with 4 globals is doing damage to the new players, because it's gibberish, can you please think again before you advise others on how they should hunt? You lack experience big time. Grab a gun and do some damage and test this yourself - and NO, not just 10 mobs!
 
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well evey... as a lot of people already pointed out, the eco of the competition matters.
that said: very low level hunter can achieve a 2,95 dpp eco very easily, thus higher competition. at mid level hunter with 40 dps it is significantly harder to maintain the 2,95 dpp (only considering weapon + amp here) as lots of people use limited weapons, which means their eco is more likely to be in the 2,85-2,92 dpp range, thus putting you on a better stance with your "bad" 2,95 dpp eco at 40 dps and the mobs according to that dps.
on high end hunter with 80+ dps on big mobs the eco increases significantly with all the imk2s around etc, thus making your 2.95 dpp bad in the upper end. but in the mid levle hunting area the 2,95 dpp is definitely not bad. its not great but its still a good base dpp due to the high amount of mid level hunter using limited gear.
and about the evidence thing: i already explained the difference between a full log and a small, easy to proof theory. if you dont get that it is not really my problem. ofc you could hit a 1k multi in 10 mobs. but when you see 1 statistical anomaly and 9 expected loots you can extent your test a bit to show that it was only what it is. an anomaly.
 
Evey said:
If everyone can get more than 2.95 for 500ped, it's not bad, it's SHIT.

any (L) EWE EP or EWE LC @ ~110% + RDI + imp ares. bam. 2.98

http://www.entropiawiki.com/WeaponCompareV2.aspx
Click to expand...

i dont know if you cant or dont want to read what i wrote but i was referring to WEAPON + AMP ONLY.
plus limited weapons are not allways available. if u hunt like me you need 4 of those daily and i doubt there is enough of them to buy to get me through a week or even a month without increasing prices thus reducing the eco. and RDI amps are rising in price as well and are soon gone.
and for example the ewe lc 100 frontier has an eco of 2,95 dpp when bought at 105% and the RDI amp bought at 1300%. too bad that with actual prices the eco drops to 2,935 and below.
and with actual market value the 120 is even below and the150 about the same.
 
Me Really Never said:
i dont know if you cant or dont want to read what i wrote but i was referring to WEAPON + AMP ONLY.
plus limited weapons are not allways available. if u hunt like me you need 4 of those daily and i doubt there is enough of them to buy to get me through a week or even a month without increasing prices thus reducing the eco. and RDI amps are rising in price as well and are soon gone.
and for example the ewe lc 100 frontier has an eco of 2,95 dpp when bought at 105% and the RDI amp bought at 1300%. too bad that with actual prices the eco drops to 2,935 and below.
and with actual market value the 120 is even below and the150 about the same.
Click to expand...

(go with don't - too much stuff to debunk all, and you kep throwing them at us...)

Why would you ignore cheapa$$ and uber good imp ares??? If it's another wild unicorn theory, keep it.

Eco for that gun + the stuff is
bbf3e89b4ade4ce7866354129dd5ad5c.png


There's also the cheap xent series.. ark daggers... everyone should do their research and use what fits them.


OFC the eco of the competition matters, that's why those who are doing the same thing for years started to see a decrease in their returns. Some keep doing the same thing and somehow expect better results.

The main problem is that people refuse to take any responsibility for their actions and blame only the system and the ubers that do uber stuff while most can't comprehend a 10-15-20k ped turnover per day, implications of such an amount of spendings, how much a fraction of eco can change a month's return by hundreds of peds... and ppl ignore ares rings that rain over EU (because MA is slapping us with them, maybe like this we move our lazy arses and start using, be more eco, loose less, complain less, play more for the same buck)
As simple as this is, the wilder the unicorns people raise in their theories, looking for absurd patterns... It's also raining with ULs now, some have to reach out and grab one.

Ahh, not enough Ls, too high MU, well, prepare, adapt, change series, farm them, get ULs (I think you actually did get a nice one) - you want them at TT then complain there is no MU in the loot... You can't possibly grab the closest stick from the ground, start poking mobs and expect to be competitive with those who pay 40k for a weapon alone...
This uber ignorance is what hurts the game the most...
If you assume you know every aspect of the game but it still sucks for you, I have bad news for you: you have still more to learn. (an no, US/EU times don't matter in loot at all).
 
Evey said:
(go with don't - too much stuff to debunk all, and you kep throwing them at us...)

Why would you ignore cheapa$$ and uber good imp ares??? If it's another wild unicorn theory, keep it.

Eco for that gun + the stuff is
bbf3e89b4ade4ce7866354129dd5ad5c.png


There's also the cheap xent series.. ark daggers... everyone should do their research and use what fits them.


OFC the eco of the competition matters, that's why those who are doing the same thing for years started to see a decrease in their returns. Some keep doing the same thing and somehow expect better results.

The main problem is that people refuse to take any responsibility for their actions and blame only the system and the ubers that do uber stuff while most can't comprehend a 10-15-20k ped turnover per day, implications of such an amount of spendings, how much a fraction of eco can change a month's return by hundreds of peds... and ppl ignore ares rings that rain over EU (because MA is slapping us with them, maybe like this we move our lazy arses and start using, be more eco, loose less, complain less, play more for the same buck)
As simple as this is, the wilder the unicorns people raise in their theories, looking for absurd patterns... It's also raining with ULs now, some have to reach out and grab one.

Ahh, not enough Ls, too high MU, well, prepare, adapt, change series, farm them, get ULs (I think you actually did get a nice one) - you want them at TT then complain there is no MU in the loot... You can't possibly grab the closest stick from the ground, start poking mobs and expect to be competitive with those who pay 40k for a weapon alone...
This uber ignorance is what hurts the game the most...
If you assume you know every aspect of the game but it still sucks for you, I have bad news for you: you have still more to learn. (an no, US/EU times don't matter in loot at all).
Click to expand...

well i do have some nice UL stuff that fits to my needs. and the reason why i didnt implement the imp ares in my calculations is exactly the reason u stated. it is wildly available now and thus doesnt matter in the comparison.
and the screenshot is nice n all but if the values dont include the imp ares then they are plain wrong considering market value. with RDI amp at 1900% and LC-100 (L) at 105% i get an eco of 2.93790 dpp. and i think the frontier is too cheap already and the RDI as i said will soon not be available anymore, especially for under 2k%
 
Evey said:
2.95 is poor eco.
Click to expand...

Omegaton M2100A1 (L) + ZX Sinkadus = 2.981. A bit higher when using TT knife as finisher. (Keeps amp alive longer, killing more mobs/amp) Not many setups at that low level can compare. Funny enough though, even though I keep pointing to this combo, many keep pointing back to the Z12+ZX setup.

OK, here's how this test all began:

In playing around with Entropedia's Weapon's page to try to figure the most eco setups I could do considering the amps I had, and guns I could afford, I stumbled upon the tt gun + ZX combo. According to everything I checked, it was highly eco, and as good as UL, w/ no MU on the gun and no chance of zero supply. More eco than any simple combo I see (NOT counting any rings, pills, etc.)

But while DPP is high, the low DPS required finding mobs of the right size to farm. So I researched. Found a few, and began testing some to see if they had any decent MU that could cover TT losses. Those that did, I camped until those markets dropped too much, or I got too bored.

In researching my results after the fact, I realized that the TT returns were fairly poor when comparing them to my "usual" hunting setups (ep-54 +Imp A105, plus tagger & finisher). It made me realize that beginning players, with even worse eco, evade, health, etc. must be having even worse results than I am. (Or are they?)

And that brings us to this thread. :)
 
To any of you who go by DPS and DPP as most important:
Would a EWE LC-200 (L) + Eamp14 against MM Kerb S4 be terrible in average?
 
Me Really Never said:
the reason why i didnt implement the imp ares in my calculations is exactly the reason u stated. it is wildly available now and thus doesnt matter in the comparison.

and the screenshot is nice n all but if the values dont include the imp ares then they are plain wrong considering market value.

with RDI amp at 1900% [...]
Click to expand...

ofc you have to include the buffs you have. you are comparing numbers here. we are saying that X eco is bad and it's normal to get 95% tt return with it. slap all the buffs on it and then it's not normal to get 95% and something else is wrong...

ss includes imp ares and you can talk to an uber to sell you a bunch of RDI cheaper..

this is how you add imp ares for those of you who don't know:
e94e3e7db5e6423b8852df12814149f8.png



Joat said:
To any of you who go by DPS and DPP as most important:
Would a EWE LC-200 (L) + Eamp14 against MM Kerb S4 be terrible in average?
Click to expand...

Yes, Eamp 14 is terrible. Use http://www.entropiawiki.com/WeaponCompareV2.aspx


JohnCapital said:
[...]In researching my results after the fact, I realized that the TT returns were fairly poor when comparing them to my "usual" hunting setups (ep-54 +Imp A105, plus tagger & finisher). It made me realize that beginning players, with even worse eco, evade, health, etc. must be having even worse results than I am. (Or are they?)

And that brings us to this thread. :)
Click to expand...

The test is really great and insightful but the takeaway should be the markup value in this game. It is wrong to assume you can tt profit with no skills and no gear, BUT you can get close to break even in hunting if you sell your loot for markup. And with other activities to complement your game, you can even profit in long term :)
I wish you included the MU as well in this test it would have been the main ingredient, especially if it turned the test to be profit in the end, if what Haruto Rat says is correct :)
Otherwise, worrying about TT return when you're making profit with mediocre gear gets no one nowhere.

The answer to this thread's question is:

NO, but it's the main ingredient.
 
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JohnCapital said:
Omegaton M2100A1 (L) + ZX Sinkadus = 2.981. A bit higher when using TT knife as finisher. (Keeps amp alive longer, killing more mobs/amp) Not many setups at that low level can compare. Funny enough though, even though I keep pointing to this combo, many keep pointing back to the Z12+ZX setup.

OK, here's how this test all began:

In playing around with Entropedia's Weapon's page to try to figure the most eco setups I could do considering the amps I had, and guns I could afford, I stumbled upon the tt gun + ZX combo. According to everything I checked, it was highly eco, and as good as UL, w/ no MU on the gun and no chance of zero supply. More eco than any simple combo I see (NOT counting any rings, pills, etc.)

But while DPP is high, the low DPS required finding mobs of the right size to farm. So I researched. Found a few, and began testing some to see if they had any decent MU that could cover TT losses. Those that did, I camped until those markets dropped too much, or I got too bored.

In researching my results after the fact, I realized that the TT returns were fairly poor when comparing them to my "usual" hunting setups (ep-54 +Imp A105, plus tagger & finisher). It made me realize that beginning players, with even worse eco, evade, health, etc. must be having even worse results than I am. (Or are they?)

And that brings us to this thread. :)
Click to expand...

If you could spare me a moment of your time, can I perhaps turn your thought process around a bit? TQ.

If I remember correctly, someone....somewhere...in the past mentioned that there's a cost or cut that MA takes away from each playing person per hour.

(I do believe that it was stated as 1 to 2 USD per hour?)

Let us assume that to be true and keep that in our minds for the time being, okay?

So...as you've mentioned, you were using an Omegaton M2100A1 (L) + ZX Sinkadus combi right?

Pulling some numbers from Entropedia:
Cost per shot = 1.632 pec or 0.01632 PED
Atks = 70 per minute

Therefore,
Cost per hour = 0.01632 * 70 (atks per minute) * 60 (minutes per hour) = 68.544 PEDs.

And from what you've posted in your first post, your worst returns were about 86.349%, right?

Which meant that you've lost about 13.651% of what you've spent.

So if your cost per hour is 68.544 PEDs and the loss is 13.651%, would it be safe to assume that you're losing about 9.357 PEDs per hour (68.544 * 0.13651)?

If you think about it that way, do you still feel unfairly treated by the server's looting mechanism?

Cause ultimately, to MA, each playing person...regardless of level...uses more or less the same amount of resources and costs MA more or less the same amount of money to maintain.

Hence, logically speaking...if a player were to be "hunting" lower HP mobs, then his costs per hour is subsequently lower and hence MA needs to "shave off" more from the player in terms of returns in order for the costs per hour to be kept in line (1 to 2 USD per hour).

Granted that the player doesn't do anything insane like hunting way above his ped card limit, match the wrong weapons (dpp/dps/overkill/whatever) to the wrong mobs, etc of course. (He would likely risk losing more in that case.)

:D
 
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Sell your loot for markup. Sell your loot for markup. Sell your loot for markup. Sell your loot for markup. Sell your loot for markup. Sell your loot for markup. Sell your loot for markup. Sell your loot for markup. Sell your loot for markup. Sell your loot for markup. ...

It takes two to tango. Where are the buyers? There are very few things which are wanted more than there is supply, and they are ever only a small portion in your harvest. Of the common stuffs, only few are sellable for even the tiniest margin. On the rest you lose more fees for expired auctions than you can sell, and find no traders accepting them.

Looking at the big picture: Every unit of profit, someone else has to pay for. To turn your entire playing profitable, you need others to soak up whatever volume you produce and pay a premium for it. Yes, anyone can profit. But not everyone. The fine distinction between these two words does not exist in all languages (e.g. German), according to Sapir-Whorf this causes difficulty in understanding.
 
sawachika said:
If I remember correctly, someone....somewhere...in the past mentioned that there's a cost or cut that MA takes away from each playing person per hour.

(I do believe that it was stated as 1 to 2 USD per hour?)

Let us assume that to be true and keep that in our minds for the time being, okay?

So...as you've mentioned, you we
Click to expand...

No.

Marco|SDS said:
* What is the average cost to play EU for an hour? average cost per month?
MindArk's business plan states that we aim for a cost of 1 USD per hour.
Click to expand...

This statement does not mean what you think it means. You assume it's some sort of a fee for each individual. I think it can be viewed as an average for all active users and it can be taken out of decay, rather then the loot of each mob, or who knows... Marco says MA aims so it might not even be the case yet or anymore and this estimation is to answer to people that are used to subscription type games, to make an idea... so let's not assume each player pays 1$/hr, or 9.357 PED... :D
 
from another blog
TT return: 265109.8
with MU - 267460.67
so MU in that case is 100.8%

from this topic
2.975 dpp
96% TT return

To stay breakeven one need 99.2% TT return with 100.8% MU
if 2.975 dpp means 96% TT return then 3.0989 dpp means 100% TT return and 3.07436 dpp means desired 99.2% TT return

No weapon maxed before lvl 100 have that dpp

So what exactly are noobs' options?
 
stc44 said:
from another blog
TT return: 265109.8
with MU - 267460.67
so MU in that case is 100.8%

from this topic
2.975 dpp
96% TT return

To stay breakeven one need 99.2% TT return with 100.8% MU
if 2.975 dpp means 96% TT return then 3.0989 dpp means 100% TT return and 3.07436 dpp means desired 99.2% TT return

No weapon maxed before lvl 100 have that dpp

So what exactly are noobs' options?
Click to expand...

That is why you should use an amplifier and get your hands on an ares ring :)

- track your own activity, other ppl's logs are awesome but you have to have your own.
- filter what you read, apply what fits your style and goals,
- use the tools you have at hand, entropedia, entropialife.com
- when you read theories, tests, complex topics, also take a look on entropialife.com and see who are the authors of the posts, experience is also relevant, not just the number of the forum posts, IMHO


I'd say you have A LOT more options and MUCH better than I had at low level, than most of us had. And these options a very cheap, compared to what we had several years back.. here are some options, these UL guns are considered cheap and eco. if they are too expensive, use low MU (L)s..

dad3586d522846b894a38384a8912db9.png
 
Evey said:
...
Yes, Eamp 14 is terrible. Use http://www.entropiawiki.com/WeaponCompareV2.aspx
...
Click to expand...

Good, then I know my avatar is a bit different. :silly2:

I used that set up for 38 of my 41 runs in MM.
I used Angel and Pulsar 3 plates, and fap was Adj SK-80 (rarely used it though).
I cycled (what I spent and what got back) approx 53k PED.

My intention was never to max amount of stars, I just wanted to
complete a MM since I haven't done that in some years, and I also
wanted to try my theory out, even though set up was not perfect.


I did try some Kerb S3 and Aranea S3 in the beginning, but found out
Kerb S4 was best of those three.
Per run I killed 70-71 Kerb S4 and average in stars was only 170, a bit lower
on Kerb S3 and Aranea S3.
I had ~3,6k on card when I started to do MM, and I didn't do anything else until
I had done my 41 runs.
I had just over 1.9k when I was done, sadly I tried to use a EWE LC-340 in
three runs, didn't get a single global in those three runs.
Approx 800-900 of that loss was MU for all EWE LC-200 and all Pulsar plate 3
I bought.
Imo, that set up was still ok, even though it wasn't perfect. :)
 
Everyone (except Joat) is so fixated on dpp. As OP clearly proves, in the real environment dpp is not all that matters.

To rattle the cage even more here's another example:

Ava @ mid-70 lvl-s uses Maddox IV (old-school one mind you, this was few years ago and adj Maddox didn't exist yet).

Entropedia says Maddox IV+beast sga @ lvl75 = 2.777 dpp.

Was testing different setups during the 1st 1-2k mobs, then used only Maddox until 10k Evisc mission was done. No other weapon, not even a finisher.
I remember my avg. returns were so good, after selling the MU I broke even (not considering skills). And I wasn't even trying to squeeze every last bit out of the loot with huge trading bankroll. Just sold the higher MU loot and TT-d all the 101-102% stuff.

So tell me, how's this possible if it's only eco that matters?


PS: Every attempt to replicate this result with the same setup (but different mobs) later has failed miserably... :yup:
 
Joat said:
I used that set up for 38 of my 41 runs in MM.
I used Angel and Pulsar 3 plates, and fap was Adj SK-80 (rarely used it though).
I cycled (what I spent and what got back) approx 53k PED.
Click to expand...

Now tell me, do you/would you run that setup on a general basis for day to day hunting? I think not!
 
Ferial said:
Now tell me, do you/would you run that setup on a general basis for day to day hunting? I think not!
Click to expand...

Depends on the mob. If I find another mob, that isn't a event mob, I would.
If I can get enough of LC-200s that is. :silly2:
Most common weapon though with Eamps, of those higher damage limited ones,
are LC-400 and LC-500.
The comb I use and have used a *lot* is mkV+Eamp13, instead of amp203.

Atm I skill a lot of BLP, so most common set up now is with Adj V1.
On some mobs I need to use damage enhancers, but since the MU is way to
high atm, I go with out them, sadly.
 
Fifth said:
Everyone (except Joat) is so fixated on dpp. As OP clearly proves, in the real environment dpp is not all that matters.

To rattle the cage even more here's another example:

Ava @ mid-70 lvl-s uses Maddox IV (old-school one mind you, this was few years ago and adj Maddox didn't exist yet).

Entropedia says Maddox IV+beast sga @ lvl75 = 2.777 dpp.

Was testing different setups during the 1st 1-2k mobs, then used only Maddox until 10k Evisc mission was done. No other weapon, not even a finisher.
I remember my avg. returns were so good, after selling the MU I broke even (not considering skills). And I wasn't even trying to squeeze every last bit out of the loot with huge trading bankroll. Just sold the higher MU loot and TT-d all the 101-102% stuff.

So tell me, how's this possible if it's only eco that matters?


PS: Every attempt to replicate this result with the same setup (but different mobs) later has failed miserably... :yup:
Click to expand...

Bolded relevant part, EU is competitive between players, most were using (L) Korss @ 200% (~2.65-2.70 depending on amp).

Getting fucking bored of repeating the relativity of eco->players :)

To expand - I made a fucking killing (>10k PED) using 2875 or h400 on feff when korss dropped every global, even tho i had 2.5-2.6 dpp.
 
Aio said:
To expand - I made a fucking killing (>10k PED) using 2875 or h400 on feff when korss dropped every global, even tho i had 2.5-2.6 dpp.
Click to expand...

I did the same thing, focusing on feffs and only using Korss 400 +A104 back when they dropped every global. (good old VU 9.x)

Minus the making the killing part. :(
 
JohnCapital said:
I did the same thing, focusing on feffs and only using Korss 400 +A104 back when they dropped every global. (good old VU 9.x)

Minus the making the killing part. :(
Click to expand...

But that's an example of how you were equal (using h400 on feff, when others were using h400 on feff) or better (using h400 on feff, when others were using h400 on non-feff) in dpp+MU terms.

Making money then just required hunting for extended amounts of time (as I could then, due to being a student), as the h400 drops paid for the general TT loss, and the hofs/globs were tt profit.
 
In this thread there is useful information.

As there is in many threads on PCF, it is about 'panning for gold'.

Keep what is gold coloured and let what is gravel go through the pan.

I say this not to benefit me, but for those who are new, read these words and get a :idea:

Well done you.
 
Mega said:
In this thread there is useful information.

As there is in many threads on PCF, it is about 'panning for gold'.

Keep what is gold coloured and let what is gravel go through the pan.

I say this not to benefit me, but for those who are new, read these words and get a :idea:

Well done you.
Click to expand...

Shutup stop writing gravel :laugh: :thumbup:
 
Aio said:
Making money then just required hunting for extended amounts of time
Click to expand...

And there's another part of the equation I've been unable to fix. Due to either work hours, IRL, ped card balance, etc. (depending on the time in my life) I've never been able to hunt "extended hours". Most folks can only play 2-3 hours/day max.

So is good eco ALL you need? Nope. A good ped card balance to be able to hoard all loot, and ability to play many hours/day, plus ability to pay attention to markets and take advantage of them, can in many cases be almost MORE important then playing with the highest eco setups possible.

And that's my point. :) High eco setups are NOT the only thing people need if wanting to pass a certain threshold in this game.
 
JohnCapital said:
And there's another part of the equation I've been unable to fix. Due to either work hours, IRL, ped card balance, etc. (depending on the time in my life) I've never been able to hunt "extended hours". Most folks can only play 2-3 hours/day max.

So is good eco ALL you need? Nope. A good ped card balance to be able to hoard all loot, and ability to play many hours/day, plus ability to pay attention to markets and take advantage of them, can in many cases be almost MORE important then playing with the highest eco setups possible.

And that's my point. :) High eco setups are NOT the only thing people need if wanting to pass a certain threshold in this game.
Click to expand...

I've told you so many times JC. Stop getting Entropia wrong. The ones that know shake their heads in disbelief and the ones who screwed up chipped out and quit. Some came back for another go, some didn't.

There is no miracle answer, listen to good advice and ignore the crap advice FFS.

It's only cos I like you that I'm so brutal.
 
JohnCapital said:
And there's another part of the equation I've been unable to fix. Due to either work hours, IRL, ped card balance, etc. (depending on the time in my life) I've never been able to hunt "extended hours". Most folks can only play 2-3 hours/day max.

So is good eco ALL you need? Nope. A good ped card balance to be able to hoard all loot, and ability to play many hours/day, plus ability to pay attention to markets and take advantage of them, can in many cases be almost MORE important then playing with the highest eco setups possible.

And that's my point. :) High eco setups are NOT the only thing people need if wanting to pass a certain threshold in this game.
Click to expand...

The biggest fallacy is looking at TT returns... and "extended hours" could be added up over days, weeks, months. They don't have to be concurrent, it makes no difference.

But to say "see, eco doesn't matter" on a 2.95 dpp setup in 2017 EU, just doesn't ring true as an argument. Of course it isn't everything you need, you need your own knowledge to hunt for MU, to spot trends, to do something different.

I can't tell you the amount of times I've just done something different, and it's paid off. Just last year, the robot waves were released and after the first couple of weeks no-one was doing them. I grinded medusa for weeks, sometimes completely on my own, and hoarded a huge amount of high MU stuff. As soon as the global chat announcement for the wave start was added, my competitive advantage went and I stopped going to the waves. If I had carried on regardless, not changing or adapting, I'd lose all that money I made previously.
 
Aio said:
on a 2.95 dpp setup
Click to expand...

Just to make sure we aren't misunderstanding each other, what setup are you referring to when you keep repeating this 2.95 number?
 
Aio said:
Bolded relevant part, EU is competitive between players, most were using (L) Korss @ 200% (~2.65-2.70 depending on amp).
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Yes, yes there's no magical "absolute dpp that gives you profit", I know. Eco is always measured relative to the other players.

Thing is, this happened 2013 (or 2014, not sure), before adj Maddox but way after the golden Korss era. 2.777 was already well below the overall average, especially considering the magnitudes cycled with the upper half of the dpp scale.
As far as I can see this one doesn't quite cut it, there has to be another explanation...

And - just to be clear - I'm not trying to say dpp doesn't matter. Relative dpp is definitely one of the most important factors in this game, there's no doubt about it. It's just that it's NOT the only factor and in certain situations those other factors apparently can outbalance dpp.

Unless someone can provide a different explanation, that is... ;)
 
most people tend to forget the biggest factor: luck. simple and pure luck.
if you dont hit the rarer big multiplier you are gonna have a bad time on most mobs.
 
Me Really Never said:
most people tend to forget the biggest factor: luck. simple and pure luck.
if you dont hit the rarer big multiplier you are gonna have a bad time on most mobs.
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True. Good point.
However, it doesn't explain the story in my example. There was no huge hofs, just the usual small globals now and then... Next, please! :)
 
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