Info: Is eco ALL you need? Test

if you expect to get any kind of positive return, then yes, i wouldnt hunt anything under 100 hp unless it has enough valuabe loot to make up for that deficit. for example a year ago you could hunt tabtab on toulan for easy profit even though they are 10 hp. they dropped average MU of +-150% on every mob. was easy profit even for low hunter. now they adjusted the drop rate a little so its not as profitable anymore. though they still drop the salafa g1 which is far superior to tt pistol eco wise. with zx it has 3,017 dpp and you can use it as finisher as its a 4 max dmg pistol. you could sustain quite long on those as they still have more MU than caly punys due to extractors and hides.

Also, please tell me your 10 health tabtab hunting setup that didn't have this excess overkill that you are fighting so hard to caution me against.
 
Actually the answer is yes but the scope of eco is not what shows up on your tracker.

If your weapon setup does 3.41 (like me), but take 1% Def cost then it isn't 3.41. And that number is only relative to loot mechanisms.. if you say overkill is wasted and you average 5% overkill, then it isn't 3.41.. it's 3.24 (guess). And if you discount regen and mob regens 10%, then it's now 2.91 (estimated). But then it becomes 2.91 vs other players who all have same parameters but maybe it Regens more for the guy doing 30dps than 80dps.

Weapon eco is a great start, but eco is just short for economic or in other words efficient... and that covers your overall playstyle.

It's safe to say my armor cost on those small mobs is much lower than n00bs, and fap costs is near zero. Also, as I've said many times before I work to reduce overkill, so yes, IN THEORY, my eco on these should be very high, but I'm seeing the expected higher TT returns.
 
Also, please tell me your 10 health tabtab hunting setup that didn't have this excess overkill that you are fighting so hard to caution me against.

you should read more carefully dude. i killed the tabtabs with tt pistol and zx + tt pistol finisher BECAUSE THEY HAD ENOUGH MU TO MAKE UP FOR THE OVERKILL. hope you see it this time.
 
you should read more carefully dude. i killed the tabtabs with tt pistol and zx + tt pistol finisher BECAUSE THEY HAD ENOUGH MU TO MAKE UP FOR THE OVERKILL. hope you see it this time.

Sorry, I just reread your post about the tabtabs and couldn't see the part where you said you were using tt pistol +ZX. Could you please show me where you said that.

And btw, tt pistol+ZX + finisher, even I wouldn't use that on a 10 health mob, precisely because of the high overkill. That's why I focused on 20-50 health mobs, more inline with the avg. dmg of the setup.
 
:popcorn:

this is getting fun
 
Sorry, I just reread your post about the tabtabs and couldn't see the part where you said you were using tt pistol +ZX. Could you please show me where you said that.

And btw, tt pistol+ZX + finisher, even I wouldn't use that on a 10 health mob, precisely because of the high overkill. That's why I focused on 20-50 health mobs, more inline with the avg. dmg of the setup.

dude. you asked for help. i try to help and explain it to you. you dont want advices that dont fit your views of the game? then dont ask for help in the first place. im done here.
 
dude. you asked for help. i try to help and explain it to you. you dont want advices that dont fit your views of the game? then dont ask for help in the first place. im done here.

:scratch2: I just asked you to point to a specific comment you claim to have made and you get mad?
 
You guys are still debating why gear from TT doesn't yeld tt profit?
If after almost 2 months of discussion on this subject, your conclusion is that you have to look more and dig deeper into 20, 40, 100 HP mobs, then please try and look at the game from another perspective.. why would the return be great at 0 level? Why would anyone want to advance after 20 hp mob if those bring profit?
I teach disciples to move to 100-600 hp mobs asap because there is nothing for them at puny level... except bonus daily on occasion :)

ANY attempt to find either of the following:
- when to hunt (US/EU time) to get good loot, or rare loot;
- where to hunt (overpopulated vs. deserted places) to find good tt return;
- when to stop hunting to avoid break the ped card that just got fat after a hOF;
- other sily things like, loot may be worse if using Universal Ammo ...

will result in a complete FAIL.

What SHOULD you figure out instead is what do you want from this game and what are you willing to do to get there (time, patience, money). Then look at others that are getting what you want from this game and compare what they put in with what you want to put in. They match? Great, get to it. They don't? Why? How? Ask the right questions. When it doesn't work try to assume you need more information and try to get it, not blame the system from the start and asume it's personal... try to find something that satisfies you in the game, not doing the same thing that pisses u off, over and over and expect better results.

When you know what you want and have the realistic expectations, there is very little room left for disappointment.
TT profit with tt gear is not a realistic expectation. Selling the loot with MU to get close to break even, while constantly studying the market, the equipment available, this is a realistic expectation and the right way to go by it. Teach this to your disciples and the community will grow much faster.

Silly theories that can never be tested and constant complaining wiith failing to adapt brings nothing good and personally I think you should keep this to yourself or discuss in private, if you totally refuse to try and change something or listen to others for hints that may help your cause..
 
The trick to hunting is not a large sample.
The trick is to get a really small sample. (And making sure the loot is in the small sample)

Eco schmeco
 
The trick to hunting is not a large sample.
The trick is to get a really small sample. (And making sure the loot is in the small sample)

Eco schmeco

Rubbish...
 
You guys are still debating why gear from TT doesn't yeld tt profit?
If after almost 2 months of discussion on this subject, your conclusion is that you have to look more and dig deeper into 20, 40, 100 HP mobs, then please try and look at the game from another perspective.. why would the return be great at 0 level? Why would anyone want to advance after 20 hp mob if those bring profit?
I teach disciples to move to 100-600 hp mobs asap because there is nothing for them at puny level... except bonus daily on occasion :)

ANY attempt to find either of the following:
- when to hunt (US/EU time) to get good loot, or rare loot;
- where to hunt (overpopulated vs. deserted places) to find good tt return;
- when to stop hunting to avoid break the ped card that just got fat after a hOF;
- other sily things like, loot may be worse if using Universal Ammo ...

will result in a complete FAIL.

What SHOULD you figure out instead is what do you want from this game and what are you willing to do to get there (time, patience, money). Then look at others that are getting what you want from this game and compare what they put in with what you want to put in. They match? Great, get to it. They don't? Why? How? Ask the right questions. When it doesn't work try to assume you need more information and try to get it, not blame the system from the start and asume it's personal... try to find something that satisfies you in the game, not doing the same thing that pisses u off, over and over and expect better results.

When you know what you want and have the realistic expectations, there is very little room left for disappointment.
TT profit with tt gear is not a realistic expectation. Selling the loot with MU to get close to break even, while constantly studying the market, the equipment available, this is a realistic expectation and the right way to go by it. Teach this to your disciples and the community will grow much faster.

Silly theories that can never be tested and constant complaining wiith failing to adapt brings nothing good and personally I think you should keep this to yourself or discuss in private, if you totally refuse to try and change something or listen to others for hints that may help your cause..

Very correct... must spread peanut butter on corwin before spreading rep again.
 
Rubbish...
Maybe, maybe not.

From the hints he's shared about this earlier I've got the impression there's things he's not sharing.
Now, there's again two ways to interpret this. You can say 1) there's in fact nothing (as in: he made it all up) and 2) he actually figured out something that works, but he simply doesn't want to share it. How do you know which one it is?

When facing the Unknown often the first emotional reaction is to deny it's existence.
Logical reaction is to remain agnostic. (Maybe not the best, but still, logical)

;)
 
Maybe, maybe not.

From the hints he's shared about this earlier I've got the impression there's things he's not sharing.
Now, there's again two ways to interpret this. You can say 1) there's in fact nothing (as in: he made it all up) and 2) he actually figured out something that works, but he simply doesn't want to share it. How do you know which one it is?

When facing the Unknown often the first emotional reaction is to deny it's existence.
Logical reaction is to remain agnostic. (Maybe not the best, but still, logical)

;)

Well, my data suggests something different and I read his comment as satire as in.. you just need to find the one mob that pays out regardless of what's used for maximum payback... which is not something that is possible in this game... so.. it is not relevant.
 
Well, my data suggests something different and I read his comment as satire as in.. you just need to find the one mob that pays out regardless of what's used for maximum payback... which is not something that is possible in this game... so.. it is not relevant.

exactly. sarcasm in forums is not as easy to detect as one might think
 
exactly. sarcasm in forums is not as easy to detect as one might think

Don't think it was satire or sarcasm, I would guess it's a reference to "waves".
 
Don't think it was satire or sarcasm, I would guess it's a reference to "waves".
Yep. Have to read his previous posts on the same topic to see this (althou you still won't get the actual "recipe" to replicate this).
 
It's safe to say my armor cost on those small mobs is much lower than n00bs, and fap costs is near zero. Also, as I've said many times before I work to reduce overkill, so yes, IN THEORY, my eco on these should be very high, but I'm seeing the expected higher TT returns.

First, there are simply no weapons you can hunt punys or sub 50 health mobs with that would be considered eco. I've always done well as you know and have had to modify my setup over time but am once again doing well.

Second, calculating your returns without including the mob ATH level loot and not even including the tier below that is like calculating a video poker machine return after removing the royal and straight flush payouts. It's not quite as bad as calculating the powerball return % after removing the jackpot but you understand the point. The reason your sample size is "small" is because all sample sizes on single mobs are small for an individual avatar.

Last, different mob "classes" have different loot mechanisms eg; high regen, mobs that have no-looters, mobs that rarely drop novas. There is some variance among these as well. I can tell you that my returns are much higher than yours and the only time i got below your range over a reasonable sample size was hunting 16600 merp (low health) on taxed land.
 
You guys are still debating why gear from TT doesn't yeld tt profit?
If after almost 2 months of discussion on this subject, your conclusion is that you have to look more and dig deeper into 20, 40, 100 HP mobs, then please try and look at the game from another perspective.. why would the return be great at 0 level? Why would anyone want to advance after 20 hp mob if those bring profit?
I teach disciples to move to 100-600 hp mobs asap because there is nothing for them at puny level... except bonus daily on occasion :)

Many valid points in your post +rep

It seems like a lot of people forget that eco is a relative term, 3.0 eco does not really say that your setup is eco but you have to compare it with others hunting the same mobs. In terms of punies and similar mobs a lot of the gear has pretty much the same eco and its hard to get well above the average eco and marginal differences in eco doesnt really make that much of a difference.

However I do believe that some 30-100 hp mobs can yield profits, not in terms of TT but with markup. People are somewhat reluctant to hunt such low lvl mobs because they find it boring and the progress is slow. I know of some mobs that you can achieve atleast +-0 overall results from, but you have to be somewhat flexible in order to achieve that.

Wave hunting is indeed possible but Im not so certain that its more profitable than sweat gathering and its really boring to do this.
 
Wave hunting is indeed possible but Im not so certain that its more profitable than sweat gathering and its really boring to do this.
You were referring to Spawn's post, right?
Actually he speaks not only about the "right time" but there's reference to the "right place" also. Kinda like 4D (spacetime) coordinates.
So I decided to keep my eyes open for loot patterns relative to certain spots on the landscape. It was a few years ago, I was doing 10k atrax mission on Z's Little Farm LA. I had to kill endless hordes of those little bastards anyway, so I added this little game just to make it more fun.
I started off with landscape markers. At every global spot I dropped something worthless on the ground. Pretty soon I noticed there was 3 relatively small areas where globals happened repeatedly almost on the same spot.
Then I figured cool, now all I have to do is stand right here and keep shooting.
Wrong, it doesn't work that way. Once u get the multiplier this hotspot is "depleted" it seems, it doesn't give anything for a while.
So I figured I need to look for a pattern in space and time. Eventually, it seemed to me, I actually found some. My results were out of bounds for several runs (TT profit) in a row but... this doesn't really solve the problem. You can get anomalous results but there's too many factors involved - you can never be certain which factor (or combination of factors) caused that result.
I finished the mission soon after that and haven't tried any large scale tests since... :smoke:
 
We really all need to stop trying to guess which x, y coordinate is going to pay out because I'm 99.9% certain that none of that really matters.

As messi says, just fucking shoot. And I will add.. just fucking shoot something that makes the game fun.
 
We really all need to stop trying to guess which x, y coordinate is going to pay out because I'm 99.9% certain that none of that really matters.

As messi says, just fucking shoot. And I will add.. just fucking shoot something that makes the game fun.

damn. that's unfortunate. none of the fun stuff I want to shoot is actually in the game :sniper:
 
We really all need to stop trying to guess which x, y coordinate is going to pay out because I'm 99.9% certain that none of that really matters.

As messi says, just fucking shoot. And I will add.. just fucking shoot something that makes the game fun.

People spend too much time analyze stuff and the miss the core element which is something they can't determine.
All you need is trust and shoot and rest will come.
 
People spend too much time analyze stuff and the miss the core element which is something they can't determine.
All you need is trust and shoot and rest will come.


I'm in agreement with messi91 on this one :yup:


I know people who spend waaaay more time with eco figures than shooting stuff in the head.

(which is what you should be doing if you're a hunter :sniper: )
 
No ...Eco is nothing it has been proved if you not get good items to sell or LA:s or if you lucky to get lots of big loots who ceeps you in balance you lose as a hunter no matter how good eco gears you have.:wise:
You only get more playtime.....

I think like Messi 91.
" People spend too much time analyze stuff and the miss the core element which is something they can't determine.
All you need is trust and shoot and rest will come. "

But i also say if MA wants that because they have full control over the game.
 
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No ...Eco is nothing it has been proved if you not get good items to sell or LA:s or if you lucky to get lots of big loots who ceeps you in balance you lose as a hunter no matter how good eco gears you have.:wise:
You only get more playtime..... before you go broke. ( that is, if your not already broke from buying over priced eco gear.)

fixed that for you.
 
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