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Info: Is eco ALL you need? Test

Xen said:
Actually, they were Imperium Pilot Target Dummys, 110 health. Tons of overkill. Many times the mob required a 2nd shot that was similar to killing a puny considering the health left.

A test just on punies with a big weapon is probably too extreme.
Click to expand...

Well no, that doesn't make sense with an overkill payback mechanism based on "extra HP" which it almost certainly is when people have done regen studies in the past.

If you can get, say, 30% extra "returns" from overkill, then (110*1.3 /3.1)= 46pec while (10*1.3/3.1) = 4.2pec.

I'm near certain there is a payback mechanism (within a range around the HP) along with a payback mechanism for eco (within a range around 3.1dpp) but I'm also near certain that those ranges will not wholly compensate any inputs.

It's basically the same... we know significantly low dps on high regen mobs will cause poor returns, while "slightly too low" doesn't affect things much (on returns). It would make logical sense that the same "stretchiness" is built into overkill & eco.
 
JohnCapital said:
Been doing some more long term testing, and the results are interesting.

First, what if you do small(puny) mobs with eco setups and virtually no armor/fap cost?
I've hunted quite a few small mobs this year and the results are quite a bit more disappointing than I expected.
===============================================
Feb-May 2016 - Scout bot (30 health) (Z12/Tt pistol/ZX amp)
Spent - 5,178.40
TT Loot - 4,887.16 (94.375%)

Sept. 2016 - Sabakuma(Young/Mature, 20/40 health) (Z12/Tt pistol/ZX amp/TT knife)
Spent - 435.69
TT Loot - 398.83 (91.539%)

Oct. 2016 - Maff punies (20/40 health) (Z12/Tt pistol/ZX amp/TT knife)
Spent - 705.39
TT Loot - 609.10 (86.349%)

Nov. 2016 - Halix(Young/Mature, 30/40 health) (Z12/Tt pistol/ZX amp/TT knife)
Spent - 508.56
TT Loot - 475.27 (93.454%)
===============================================
The vast majority of these hunts were using a tt pistol+ZX amp and either unamped pistol or tt knife as finisher. The TT returns are not amazing at all. And at that low level, you would expect returns to not require 10,000+ ped of hunting to "even out". (A TT pistol+ZX hunt is ~20.08 cost, so these are over many hunts)

Compare those to my year and a half of doing mostly daily mission hunts. Small qty of random mobs scattered all over should have given me very poor overall results, but...

===============================================
Apr 2015 - today - Daily hunting missions (Various mobs/health/feff cave/argo cave) (Various gear, usually ep-52,53,54 cdf(L), LC-55 cdf(L) + A104/imp A105 + philo sword finisher, or Z12/tt pistol/tt knife+zx amp)
Spent - 44,372.9
TT Loot - 41,818.14 (94.242%)
===============================================

And for final comparison, looking at my overall results for the past 5 years:
===============================================
Apr 2011-today - all hunting
Spent - 247,021.58
TT Loot - 227,483.60 (92.09%)

total armor - 3,766.59 (1.524%)
total fap - 1,555.18 (0.629%)
if armor/fap = zero - 94.244%
===============================================

So it seems I'm going to stay in the 92-94% return realm no matter how or what I hunt.

When I see people make long term 97%+ tt returns, all I can do is say "Congratulations. Your results are not typical".

For those planning to reply with the normal "use more eco weapons" and/or "lower your defense cost", please re-read my setups and defense costs. (I'm also pretty sure the defense costs are covering a few fap jobs that sneaked into my hunting logs over the years, so it's actually even lower.)

It would take a HUGE investment to get much better eco & dmg/sec setups, and for some reason, I'm guessing that my playing style won't benefit from it. (Note that when I used ultra eco on small mobs, my returns were actually worse)

I suspect, my biggest problem is not what gear I use or what I hunt, but WHEN. Being west coast USA (8 hours behind MA time) seems to be my hugest disadvantage as I can't hunt during "peak" times.
Click to expand...

Also, to bring this back on topic as I feel overkill is a bit over-egged here (even though it's a definite source of pedloss if you're up at 10%):

Z12+ZX = 2.938

LC-55 CDF + imp 105 = 2.949
EP-54 CDF + imp 105 = 2.970

Only the EP54 I would say is getting anywhere near "eco" in modern Entropia. I'm totally not surprised that you're at 92% with Z12 and 94% with EP54 either.

Just by using am Imp Ares & Candycane with EP54 CDF + imp105, I can get to 3.041 dpp (a 2.5% improvement). This is what other people are using and they are your competition.

Too many people do stat tracking but forget the most important factor - other players.:wise:
 
Me Really Never said:
okay i guess you are trolling me so i just stop trying to teach you. enjoy ur taming.
Click to expand...

I'm not deliberating trolling you. I find it frustrating that I provide you a valid and justifiable argument towards your view (as should be all debate) yet you're not prepared to continue or question my argument. Just jump over that hoop and go back to the beginning. But hey ho all is cool.


Me Really Never said:
dude. i said it. i say it again. take a gun with lots of damage or a sword or whatever pleases you and one shot mobs that have 10 hp. you just need to kill like 10 mobs to see that you NEVER get ANYWHERE NEAR the ammo spend. if that is no evidence for you then im out. if hard evidence isnt enough, nothing is.
Click to expand...

I agreed it's not wise to that, although maybe after x amount of mobs the system "may" compensate. The guy in the forum did get a 57 glob did he not? Personally I agree with you, I don't think it's a good plan.

Aio said:
If you want stats, I did the full puny iron challenge with a corro 3 ME, and I was farrr away from 90% (more 60-70%).
Click to expand...

I didn't rate those low level corr chips either. I even did a load of hunting with corr TEN edition, and was not impressed. The only corr chips I like are XI or higher. XIII corr chips seem give good returns.

Me Really Never said:
yes i have done such tests on grinding faction badges on cyrene. i was using a calytrek e.l.m. weapon on all different mobs of the faction dailys, including the small bots. they died after one shot all the time and the return was total bullshit, which doesnt surprise me. but well... there are also people who believe that the earth is flat, despite all the facts so i cant really do much about it.
Click to expand...

I don't know what MA did under the hood to those 1 ped guns, but let's just say I'll never touch them again.

In this case it wasn't so much the mob it was the weapon.

Rick
 
Aio said:
Well no, that doesn't make sense with an overkill payback mechanism based on "extra HP" which it almost certainly is when people have done regen studies in the past.

If you can get, say, 30% extra "returns" from overkill, then (110*1.3 /3.1)= 46pec while (10*1.3/3.1) = 4.2pec.

I'm near certain there is a payback mechanism (within a range around the HP) along with a payback mechanism for eco (within a range around 3.1dpp) but I'm also near certain that those ranges will not wholly compensate any inputs.

It's basically the same... we know significantly low dps on high regen mobs will cause poor returns, while "slightly too low" doesn't affect things much (on returns). It would make logical sense that the same "stretchiness" is built into overkill & eco.
Click to expand...

You think less than 3.1 dmg/pec is compensated? That's pretty high, most weapons are < 3.0 even with a good amp.

And yes, I did a bad eco test many years ago and it was compensated, to an extent. MA seems to have put bumpers in the gutters.

As for overkill, it may be that it isn't compensated but that loot is based on damage inflicted. That is, if you do 150 damage to a 100 health mob the loot is based on 150 health, with a possible limit.
 
Xen said:
You think less than 3.1 dmg/pec is compensated? That's pretty high, most weapons are < 3.0 even with a good amp.

And yes, I did a bad eco test many years ago and it was compensated, to an extent. MA seems to have put bumpers in the gutters.

As for overkill, it may be that it isn't compensated but that loot is based on damage inflicted. That is, if you do 150 damage to a 100 health mob the loot is based on 150 health, with a possible limit.
Click to expand...

I think 3.1 is/was the old breakeven point (i.e. MA expected cost to kill)... and I think we were compensated mildly for doing under that. But to be honest, nowadays, I think that expected cost to kill has been moved higher. A lot was made in the past about "Dynamic" *wink ,-) wink* and I think that this wasn't bullshit, but people understood it incorrectly. It's not a personal dynamism in that your input is paid back at 90% no matter what (like a lot seem to believe). I think it's a game dynamic where the average input is raked at a certain rate, and it just so happens that 99% of the game input methods are around this average, which is why everyone feels "90% returns".

Yes, you're right, there's bumpers / stretchiness / whatever word/metaphor you want to use in bad eco. Whether low HA (non maxed) is also compensated, who knows. I guess not, as you aren't doing any dmg/hp drain for your cost, so how would "the mob" track it. There must be limits here though, as no-one is running around with imp7, swine deluxe, purifier even at maxed and getting >90% ;)

Overkill, 2 sides of the same coin I guess, but like everything it "feels" like there are boundaries/limits to this compensation mechanism. Loot I have always understood and seen that it is based on HP, and nothing has proved otherwise but damage inflicted is HP removed so it's the same idea :)

Oh, some evidence for the 3.1 balance point for you - ND wanted to introduce a mob which was like EP4 crafting. Crabs have 6500 HP... 6500/3.25 = 2000pec. What's the cost to craft EP4? ;)
 
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I didn't play as much as before but this is my return so far (april 2016-jan2017) EST+ L lvl90+ weapons sitting at 97-98% tt return.

Before was ez to play uneco since we had so much markup. I dont want to give my total cost but maxed DOA Foe i was sitting last time i check in TT return at -165k :laugh: (things i fucked up in this period...skipping the markup mobs just for missions so it costed me like 20-30k peds in mu i say), after this still decent profit year :)
 
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Aio said:
Well no, that doesn't make sense with an overkill payback mechanism based on "extra HP" which it almost certainly is when people have done regen studies in the past.

If you can get, say, 30% extra "returns" from overkill, then (110*1.3 /3.1)= 46pec while (10*1.3/3.1) = 4.2pec.

I'm near certain there is a payback mechanism (within a range around the HP) along with a payback mechanism for eco (within a range around 3.1dpp) but I'm also near certain that those ranges will not wholly compensate any inputs.

It's basically the same... we know significantly low dps on high regen mobs will cause poor returns, while "slightly too low" doesn't affect things much (on returns). It would make logical sense that the same "stretchiness" is built into overkill & eco.
Click to expand...

Well, I can tell you with 100% certainty that there isn't an overkill mechanism that pays back in instances. If you keep track of damage, it will be different than the final instance damage tally. For instances where it pays you at the end, it is quite noticable. This was an observation from the last few weeks based on my tracker utility.
 
atomicstorm said:
Well, I can tell you with 100% certainty that there isn't an overkill mechanism that pays back in instances. If you keep track of damage, it will be different than the final instance damage tally. For instances where it pays you at the end, it is quite noticable. This was an observation from the last few weeks based on my tracker utility.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to see if the game paid out based on your tracked damage or it's tracked damage (the results page could be purely visual).

It would also be interesting to work out the "dmg/pec" return from instances, but I think that they are a bit skewed anyway. Possible that they run on their own mechanisms and give lower TT for higher item chances.

(Or the fact that overkill isn't compensated gives such shit returns in them).
 
Xen said:
And yes, I did a bad eco test many years ago and it was compensated, to an extent. MA seems to have put bumpers in the gutters.

As for overkill, it may be that it isn't compensated but that loot is based on damage inflicted. That is, if you do 150 damage to a 100 health mob the loot is based on 150 health, with a possible limit.
Click to expand...

After years of hunting I'm more leaning towards this view. We know for a fact that MA records number of kills on a personal level, as that was part of the RT achievements when you enter their planet (or was). I'm sure they record cumulative damage too.

I ask this question. If the mob has only 15 damage worth of HP left, and you hit it 30. Why would the system show us 30 damage. If it mattered it would only show 15.

Besides a scratch your head moment. If there're 200 people shooting at a shared mob, what's happening to the damage of all those guns on the last shot of the mob. 200 people hit it with just a tiny amount of HP left. Are we really saying all the ammo is lost per mob? I don't believe it.

Rick
 
atomicstorm said:
Well, I can tell you with 100% certainty that there isn't an overkill mechanism that pays back in instances. If you keep track of damage, it will be different than the final instance damage tally. For instances where it pays you at the end, it is quite noticable. This was an observation from the last few weeks based on my tracker utility.
Click to expand...

Instances have tracking roudnign error:
in the instance 10.9 + 10.9 dmg is remembered as 20 dmg done...

This is the reason why instance tracker shows different result than any other parser of chat.log (i.e. EL Tracker).

Instance tracker still calulates overkils into the "total dmg tracked".

@On topic:
doing short term tests with huge overkill (i.e. killing mobs with 10hp with 100max dmg weapon) shows clearly that overkill is wasted (and not payed back in common looters and occasional small multipliers).

But there is the possibility that it is remembered somehwere and it pays back as huge a$$ hofs later. If it is not then i am 100% sure that overkill is wasted.

What is not wasted (at least not 100% of it) is:
- letting mob regen. When you let mob regen common looters are visibly increased in loot (tested). No idea if multiplyers are increased too. About 90% of regen is "payed back" this way.
- letting mob hit you a lot while wearing overprotecting armor. About 50% of the armor decay is visibly "remembered on mob" and payed back in common looters (same rule as with regen - no idea if it incrases mults). Also: if YOU decay armor on mob and SOMEONE ELSE kills the mob - the loot on that mob is increased. So it must be remembered on mob (tested with friend).

Also:
if you "kill mob by taming" and it has some hp left - you get proportionally less loot than you would get for doing full dmg.

Thats my two pec.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
RickEngland said:
After years of hunting I'm more leaning towards this view. We know for a fact that MA records number of kills on a personal level, as that was part of the RT achievements when you enter their planet (or was). I'm sure they record cumulative damage too.

I ask this question. If the mob has only 15 damage worth of HP left, and you hit it 30. Why would the system show us 30 damage. If it mattered it would only show 15.

Besides a scratch your head moment. If there're 200 people shooting at a shared mob, what's happening to the damage of all those guns on the last shot of the mob. 200 people hit it with just a tiny amount of HP left. Are we really saying all the ammo is lost per mob? I don't believe it.

Rick
Click to expand...

Simplifying the overkill argument:

Proving overkill argument is difficult because of regen and maturity variation. However, I will leave it at this:

There are many ways these global/hof pools are paid for (in arrears I might add). The question is ultimately whether overkill is paid for in average loot. We can get close to proving it. If it doesn't (as I suspect), there's no guarantee that it doesn't pay back in globals. Since you have no idea what triggers globals and hofs (except in 1 case I know), you can't prove it.

However based on my findings with the instance, I believe over killing is similar to unmaxed. But again, you can't prove it.. only speculate. We don't have access to all the elements of the formula to prove it or not.
 
Falagor said:
Instances have tracking roudnign error:
in the instance 10.9 + 10.9 dmg is remembered as 20 dmg done...

This is the reason why instance tracker shows different result than any other parser of chat.log (i.e. EL Tracker).

Instance tracker still calulates overkils into the "total dmg tracked".

@On topic:
doing short term tests with huge overkill (i.e. killing mobs with 10hp with 100max dmg weapon) shows clearly that overkill is wasted (and not payed back in common looters and occasional small multipliers).

But there is the possibility that it is remembered somehwere and it pays back as huge a$$ hofs later. If it is not then i am 100% sure that overkill is wasted.

What is not wasted (at least not 100% of it) is:
- letting mob regen. When you let mob regen common looters are visibly increased in loot (tested). No idea if multiplyers are increased too. About 90% of regen is "payed back" this way.
- letting mob hit you a lot while wearing overprotecting armor. About 50% of the armor decay is visibly "remembered on mob" and payed back in common looters (same rule as with regen - no idea if it incrases mults). Also: if YOU decay armor on mob and SOMEONE ELSE kills the mob - the loot on that mob is increased. So it must be remembered on mob (tested with friend).

Also:
if you "kill mob by taming" and it has some hp left - you get proportionally less loot than you would get for doing full dmg.

Thats my two pec.

Falagor
:bandit:
Click to expand...

While I certainly may see how this is possible, this means that damage differential cannot exceed number of shots and this has been true often.
 
Falagor said:
Instances have tracking roudnign error:
in the instance 10.9 + 10.9 dmg is remembered as 20 dmg done...

This is the reason why instance tracker shows different result than any other parser of chat.log (i.e. EL Tracker).

Instance tracker still calulates overkils into the "total dmg tracked".

@On topic:
doing short term tests with huge overkill (i.e. killing mobs with 10hp with 100max dmg weapon) shows clearly that overkill is wasted (and not payed back in common looters and occasional small multipliers).

But there is the possibility that it is remembered somehwere and it pays back as huge a$$ hofs later. If it is not then i am 100% sure that overkill is wasted.

What is not wasted (at least not 100% of it) is:
- letting mob regen. When you let mob regen common looters are visibly increased in loot (tested). No idea if multiplyers are increased too. About 90% of regen is "payed back" this way.
- letting mob hit you a lot while wearing overprotecting armor. About 50% of the armor decay is visibly "remembered on mob" and payed back in common looters (same rule as with regen - no idea if it incrases mults). Also: if YOU decay armor on mob and SOMEONE ELSE kills the mob - the loot on that mob is increased. So it must be remembered on mob (tested with friend).

Also:
if you "kill mob by taming" and it has some hp left - you get proportionally less loot than you would get for doing full dmg.

Thats my two pec.

Falagor
:bandit:
Click to expand...

Did a recent test on vain + argos, letting it decay 50ped over 10 kills (around 5ped decay per mob).

Tests were inconclusive (no significant difference between those 10 loots and 10 regular ones).

It's a small test but at 5ped armour decay per argo young, I couldn't warrant doing it for too long ;)
 
fal is a stats freak and does really really extensive testing on everything. he is right in 99,9% of cases. nothing to add to the overkill stuff.
 
Aio said:
Did a recent test on vain + argos, letting it decay 50ped over 10 kills (around 5ped decay per mob).

Tests were inconclusive (no significant difference between those 10 loots and 10 regular ones).

It's a small test but at 5ped armour decay per argo young, I couldn't warrant doing it for too long ;)
Click to expand...

I was doing it on caraboks in the past. 200 kills. Common looters never exceed 4pec ;) (if you do not let them regen ofc). Mimum multiplier is 10.xx (close to 11pec). I was getting loots of 5-9 pec quite often wearing overprotecting armor. And like i said - other person killing the mobs that "fed" on my armor was also getting more loot.

Would be nice to repeat the test since it was done quite some time ago :).

@edit:
also i think this is the reason why the "captain skilling extravagaza" that occured once dring Diablo event resulted with much better loots than usuall :).

Falagor
:bandit:
 
atomicstorm said:
While I certainly may see how this is possible, this means that damage differential cannot exceed number of shots and this has been true often.
Click to expand...

Hmmm - i think i would love to test this one. Do you know weapon setup someone was using (mayby arso chip that 1 shot counts as few and each is roudned down in the tracker)?

I only measured this for intsance tracker only up to aroudnd 50 shots and all overkill was counted and diffrence was only the x.* roudning errors. But i guess 50 shots might not be enough.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
Falagor said:
I was doing it on caraboks in the past. 200 kills. Common looters never exceed 4pec ;) (if you do not let them regen ofc). Mimum multiplier is 10.xx (close to 11pec). I was getting loots of 5-9 pec quite often wearing overprotecting armor. And like i said - other person killing the mobs that "fed" on my armor was also getting more loot.

Would be nice to repeat the test since it was done quite some time ago :).

@edit:
also i think this is the reason why the "captain skilling extravagaza" that occured once dring Diablo event resulted with much better loots than usuall :).

Falagor
:bandit:
Click to expand...

I intend to. Just not there yet. Within the next month I have stuff to publish. Some officials won't like it though...
 
Falagor said:
Hmmm - i think i would love to test this one. Do you know weapon setup someone was using (mayby arso chip that 1 shot counts as few and each is roudned down in the tracker)?

I only measured this for intsance tracker only up to aroudnd 50 shots and all overkill was counted and diffrence was only the x.* roudning errors. But i guess 50 shots might not be enough.

Falagor
:bandit:
Click to expand...

Well, it's my tool.. so I'll capture the fractions. :)
 
atomicstorm said:
Well, it's my tool.. so I'll capture the fractions. :)
Click to expand...

I ment gun setup. Since you mentioned that the difference between tracker vs parser should not be more than nr of shots (which is obviously true since max difference should be 0.9 * nr_of_shots) but it was proven otherwise. I would like to replicate the test to see the result you described of bigger difference :).

Falagor
:bandit:
 
Non will probably listen to this I guess, but still I'll give it a try, again. :p

I see a lot of people doing tests, but quite often some important parts are missing.

Imo, it's far more important to have right value per interaction with targets,
and the amount of interactions you have with the target is equally important.
Don't believe me? Then you haven't done tests for it. I have.

When we use a set up with perfect values, we are at the peak of efficiency.
With wrong value we either get a set up that is underpowered or overpowered,
per interaction.
When we peak, we also reduce Target evaded attack.
Don't believe me? Then you haven't done tests for it. I have.

MA actually give us most information we need to calculate what values that are
needed. Some are missing but we can figure that out by some work.
Don't believe me? Then look harder, it's out there.

This can ofc been seen as dmg/pec and/or dmg/sec "is the thing", but it's far more
delicate than that.
Non seem to look at what happens when we attack a target.
Every interaction we do is linear in cost as long as we use same weapon, and it doesn't
matter if we do a Target evaded attack, minimum damage or maximum damage.
HP is just a tool to control amount of interactions.
If you try to fine tune your set up so it do right values, you will see a difference,
in many ways.
Don't believe me? Then you haven't done tests for it. I have.

Now, this post is not to get everyone to change their p.o.v and theories, since their
approach and theories might work for them.
This post is just a little hint for those who are curious and open minded enough to do
various tests. :)
 
Great discussion!, Just wanted to add a clarifcation for those reading..

There is a categorical difference between:

Overkill (being discussed here) - blasting a mob with 2 hp left for 50 dmg (as exmpl)

Valid Extra Damage done because of regen- this is shooting a mob down to 2 hp and letting it regen half of its hp back then attacking again.

In the first scenario, to my knowledge all tests (mine included) show Zero evidence of payback

In the second scenario we have evidence that "Valid Extra Damage" done because of regen is indeed payed back.
(But it should be noted that almost all that have tested this (myself included) believe that payback is "stunted"

Also, as usual i can concur with what Aio, Atomic and Falagor propose

Falagor, i would be interested in looking over any stats you have from your armor payback tests, its an area i have yet to look into myself, thanks!

~008
 
Falagor said:
I ment gun setup. Since you mentioned that the difference between tracker vs parser should not be more than nr of shots (which is obviously true since max difference should be 0.9 * nr_of_shots) but it was proven otherwise. I would like to replicate the test to see the result you described of bigger difference :).

Falagor
:bandit:
Click to expand...

XTLC800, i105, 1 dmg, 2 accu .. gold rush 3
 
Stefan 008 Bond said:
Great discussion!, Just wanted to add a clarifcation for those reading..

There is a categorical difference between:

Overkill (being discussed here) - blasting a mob with 2 hp left for 50 dmg (as exmpl)

Valid Extra Damage done because of regen- this is shooting a mob down to 2 hp and letting it regen half of its hp back then attacking again.

In the first scenario, to my knowledge all tests (mine included) show Zero evidence of payback

In the second scenario we have evidence that "Valid Extra Damage" done because of regen is indeed payed back.
(But it should be noted that almost all that have tested this (myself included) believe that payback is "stunted"

Also, as usual i can concur with what Aio, Atomic and Falagor propose

Falagor, i would be interested in looking over any stats you have from your armor payback tests, its an area i have yet to look into myself, thanks!

~008
Click to expand...

I have a few tests I'm ongoing with my tracker.

- Usefulness of sights/scopes for their vaguely stated purpose (FALSE)
- Armor pay back
- Eco vs Uneco impact test

I need a month to plot data and will share.
 
Me Really Never said:
fal is a stats freak and does really really extensive testing on everything. he is right in 99,9% of cases. nothing to add to the overkill stuff.
Click to expand...

Doesn't explain my results on over 10k 110 health mobs with Slugstorm + Dante. Average is 40-50% overkill per mob? If it wasn't paid I would get 60-70% return. There were no unusual hofs either. On top of that the gun wasn't quite maxed at the time.
 
Xen said:
Doesn't explain my results on over 10k 110 health mobs with Slugstorm + Dante. Average is 40-50% overkill per mob? If it wasn't paid I would get 60-70% return. There were no unusual hofs either. On top of that the gun wasn't quite maxed at the time.
Click to expand...

well you might have catched a hot streak by accident. on small mobs those can last 10k kills easily. but my data fits to the data of everyone else here who has done the test
 
Me Really Never said:
well you might have catched a hot streak by accident. on small mobs those can last 10k kills easily. but my data fits to the data of everyone else here who has done the test
Click to expand...

Regardless of this, proposing to have such blatant overkill is simply not wise and should be avoided.
 
Must-read for anyone who's interested about how this game works "under the hood"

Mind you, u won't get ready-made simple answers, on some questions ppl disagree till the end. But that's ok, just go out there and keep your eyes open - if you know what u looking for u can't fail. :yup:


@Atomic (who's invention was that nick lol it's catchy) - forget instances, i believe they're comparatively late addition to the old well tested base system and it's still full of bugs. Also, it is quite possible instances follow slightly different logic than open world hunting (as ppl have already pointed out before me). As we can't be sure what exactly are those differences we can't really rely on this data I'm afraid...
 
atomicstorm said:
Regardless of this, proposing to have such blatant overkill is simply not wise and should be avoided.
Click to expand...

It's not a proposal, it's a test, you use exaggerations so the result is clear. With only normal overkill it's hard to derive a conclusion.
 
Xen said:
It's not a proposal, it's a test, you use exaggerations so the result is clear. With only normal overkill it's hard to derive a conclusion.
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My comment is towards new players reading this and thinking that using such large overkill (in your test) is okay, as it's not wise.

Have you published details about your test and how you have proven that you are okay with overkill of that magnitude? Or are you basing it in that your returns weren't 70%? Because if it is the latter, that's not a sufficient indicator of it being okay. I got many + runs with severely unmaxed weapons, but if you zoom out, you can see how bad of an idea it was.. as noted in my unmaxed conclusion thread.
 
atomicstorm said:
My comment is towards new players reading this and thinking that using such large overkill (in your test) is okay, as it's not wise.

Have you published details about your test and how you have proven that you are okay with overkill of that magnitude? Or are you basing it in that your returns weren't 70%? Because if it is the latter, that's not a sufficient indicator of it being okay. I got many + runs with severely unmaxed weapons, but if you zoom out, you can see how bad of an idea it was.. as noted in my unmaxed conclusion thread.
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Don't have the records but it was definitely over 90% tt return. I think over 10k loot events is a very good size test. And tt return is what we are testing, correct.

If I did another test with similar results would it just be luck again?
 
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