Info: Space 2017

There never was a separation, the failure was that mindark had a design flaw in their space concept which allowed players all these years to bypass space and therefor gaining an advantage by 'not playing the game' over those who were playing the game. No other game out there makes players logout to be better off afterwards...

Sometime you just need to open your eyes and see that other games on the market who started developing space later then mindark and had a smaller budget managed to build a playerbase of over a million which doesnt mind lootable pvp nor supporting their game of choice with over 130million dollar - i think it wouldnt hurt entropia if mindark spent some effort to tap into that potential with just 1%...

Go play that other game then. Don't ruin this.
 
There never was a separation, the failure was that mindark had a design flaw in their space concept which allowed players all these years to bypass space and therefor gaining an advantage by 'not playing the game' over those who were playing the game. No other game out there makes players logout to be better off afterwards...

Sometime you just need to open your eyes and see that other games on the market who started developing space later then mindark and had a smaller budget managed to build a playerbase of over a million which doesnt mind lootable pvp nor supporting their game of choice with over 130million dollar - i think it wouldnt hurt entropia if mindark spent some effort to tap into that potential with just 1%...

So are theses games RCE? As in you can deposit and withdraw?
 
Go play that other game then. Don't ruin this.

Says the one who tries to preserve 'status quo' for a playerbase of less then 10k instead of trying to come up with ideas on how to make entropia more successfull through making it appeal to a wider playerbase - go figure :rolleyes:

back on topic:
apart from an option to generate dynamic content on the fly another option for quick space development could be to develop or purchase a 'planetgenerator' and use it to generate asteroids and moons/planets without infrastructure for space mining/exploration and eventual hunting.
Saving the effort of employing graphics artists to work out single planet features but instead to the whole lot with less effort/costs.
Dynamic content generation can be used straight or as a feed/generator to fill empty space servers with content ranging from asteroids over planets to stars for low effort.

So are theses games RCE? As in you can deposit and withdraw?
No and this is the reason why i think if mindark just spent a tiny deal of effort they still could tap in on the playerbase of these games even with a lower quality.
 
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Says the one who tries to preserve 'status quo' for a playerbase of less then 10k instead of trying to come up with ideas on how to make entropia more successfull through making it appeal to a wider playerbase - go figure :rolleyes:

back on topic:
apart from an option to generate dynamic content on the fly another option for quick space development could be to develop or purchase a 'planetgenerator' and use it to generate asteroids and moons/planets without infrastructure for space mining/exploration and eventual hunting.
Saving the effort of employing graphics artists to work out single planet features but instead to the whole lot with less effort/costs.
Dynamic content generation can be used straight or as a feed/generator to fill empty space servers with content ranging from asteroids over planets to stars for low effort.


No and this is the reason why i think if mindark just spent a tiny deal of effort they still could tap in on the playerbase of these games even with a lower quality.

Wider playerbase? You guys are 100 people up in space. The rest thinks its a pain in the ass and just in their way when trying to hunt. C'mon!

Let us travel hassle free between planets WITH loot and WITHOUT PVP and you can have as big universe and as many planetgenerators you want for my sake but don't kill the game while ur at it. People that want those kind of games play EVE online and other games. Please keep entropia as entropia and don't kill it off by trying to be a eve lookalike.
 
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It is fine for these games because they followed their concept from the start and stuck with it. They attract players who like it just this way and continue to serve them. It is why competition exists. This one, however, tried to impose a culture which wasn't there before and the antagonism won't go away so easily. Customers didn't ask for this nor expected it. It is an experiment in social engineering and not everybody appreciates such an attitude. People only don't quit because there are so many facets in the game that you can easily find your niche, which is great, but it still makes you grumble when forced to cross someone else's turf where they get to impose their superiority because you simply built other skills instead. All a matter of perception.

PVP has been in this game since the beginning. And as soon as Amethera was added you were "forced" to enter PVP to get to and/or play in some places there. So yes, it was there before. Been here a long time. And you aren't "forced" to play that part of the game if your fragile ego can't take your vehicle getting blown up one time, or you can't spend 20 or 30 minutes to get to this place that you supposedly want to go to so bad, or you can't get on a warp for 5 or 7 ped where you don't even have to suffer someone "imposing their superiority" on you.
 
Wider playerbase? You guys are 100 people up in space. The rest thinks its a pain in the ass and just in their way when trying to hunt. C'mon!

Let us travel hassle free between planets WITH loot and WITHOUT PVP and you can have as big universe and as many planetgenerators you want for my sake but don't kill the game while ur at it. People that want those kind of games play EVE online and other games. Please keep entropia as entropia and don't kill it off by trying to be a eve lookalike.

Could have been a million people if mindark hadnt held back - just because they stopped developing space while it still had designflaws and therefor didnt get players into it doesnt make your point you are actually completely missing the bigger pictures while only thinking about yourself.

I regularily get people from eve and other space games comming over and experienceing entropia space on my ship - they look for rce space, for action, something to do - but when they see the mess they go back to eve - there is a big market of players entropia is missing out on.
 
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...there is a big market of players entropia is missing out on.

yes. Some development would require more work and some would require less, but MA has implemented pretty much zero in the last few years, despite lots of suggestions, so it's hardly surprising it is considered a waste of time by so many players.

But what IS is not the same as what could be - the potential!
Sadly, however, nowadays MA are not even capable of putting 5000 ped SB statues on auction with names that show up on the listing... so they might not even be capable of entering a seed number for a procedurally generated bit of space. I'm betting they'd create a space with 98% matter in it or something... :laugh:
 
People did get used to being able to teleport from one planet to another so whatever the game got named you have players who want that convenience.
Do not see any problem with having space for those who like space and teleports for those who do not like it.
Would love to see significant enough population increase in Entropia Universe to make it economical to develop more space content.
Personally I love space but recognize not all players feel this way.
 
Space as it is is a half implemented fragment of the original vision of planets.

MA has since diverged from that original vision greatly while leaving this skeleton of the past in place. If planets were true to the original idea of nearly self contained economies with their own items, materials and even possibly their own professions then space as it is would work great. A vast lootable zone would counter the great reward for transporting material from one zone to the other.


Sadly MA never really went with that plan besides using the outline of it to sell overpriced space vehicles and to keep hanger owners from rebelling. Now its easy, cheap and quick to get items from any planet to any other planet through the auction (read: caly looted items kill the demand for other planets items.) Then MA forced planet partners to put "universal" materials in their blueprints and loot pools (read: make sure people have to bring materials from caly to other planets if they want to do any crafting there.) People are stuck having to transport universal materials off planet to caly because they are not used there and forced to transport universal materials from caly to other planets because those materials either dont drop at all or not enough to be worthwhile there.



So now you have the same risk of being looted and losing all your materials, but the reward has gone down to nothing because caly items have suppressed other planets economies so much. The only reason why everything is still somewhat working is because the "risk" is fake for anyone that knows anything and has a few spare peds. Just simply jump on one of the motherships that MA got way too much money for and log off. Safe and simple. If you don't know that though you will try to travel through space and end up looted by one of the scum still sticking around and you will probably log out and never return, spreading bad word of mouth all along the way.


I would venture a guess that piracy and space as it is has cost the game thousands of new players. Space is an active threat to the stability of the game and leaving it as it is rewards some of the worst players in game.
 
Could have been a million people if mindark hadnt held back - just because they stopped developing space while it still had designflaws and therefor didnt get players into it doesnt make your point you are actually completely missing the bigger pictures while only thinking about yourself.

I regularily get people from eve and other space games comming over and experienceing entropia space on my ship - they look for rce space, for action, something to do - but when they see the mess they go back to eve - there is a big market of players entropia is missing out on.

You really think million people would join this game because of space? A place where you could lose all your cash. No other game lets you log out, because its not playing with real money.
 
Could have been a million people if mindark hadnt held back - just because they stopped developing space while it still had designflaws and therefor didnt get players into it doesnt make your point you are actually completely missing the bigger pictures while only thinking about yourself.

Well, John, as good as it would sound to have that many players in game you need to remember that would be bad for you since right now MA is flying under the radar allowing true pirating in a RCE based game. If we were to get more players from Eve then, sad to say, our true lootable pvp would be removed.

I do have a feeling that space will be removed soon since it looks as if MA is slowly moving away from the RCE based game into a more profitable casino which again if by doing this, they wouldn't be able to afford having space. Time will tell but Compets and EPs are the writing on the walls. :(
 
You can have all that if you want but I'd like to bypass it with a free teleporter and instantly go to my planet of choice. Wasting time in space is prolly fun for some but I'm a hunter.

please tell me your joking ??:lolup:

Teleporters were never free to start with when traveling to planets why would they start now ?

Belive it or not space is needed if you like it or not. if everyone could easily get their loot from say ark to caly without any risk what would be the point in using arks auction or shops. Before you say it also - NI's failure had nothing to do with space. In fact it was Dev's lack of funding.... that caused its demise

I also want to point out there are quite a number of people that are pro space, but not all of them can be bothered to argue with arrogant people on forums...

have a nice day :p
 
Another idea for space:

Public chatchannels and channels with more then 500 members have 1 free message per 5minutes, if a player is located in lootable pvp any further message during that timeperiod costs ped/pec.
Local and private channels are free.

This would reduce alot of space chat nonsense and shut up some of the more frequent 'mouth heroes' or atleast make them pay for it ;)


There should be a space forum where space ideas can be discussed without the usual anti-space minority cluttering a creative thread with their nonsense.
 
There should be a space forum where space ideas can be discussed without the usual anti-space minority cluttering a creative thread with their nonsense.

Anti-space players (as you call them, I don't agree on that terminology) are not a minority. What you are trying to do is restrict the debate to a population group that suits your opinion.

Care to comment on my post here?
 
Anti-space players (as you call them, I don't agree on that terminology) are not a minority. What you are trying to do is restrict the debate to a population group that suits your opinion.

Care to comment on my post here?

Not sure why you think 50ish vote pro teleporter put those 50 people on the 'anti-space faction' - hell i would use a free tp to another planet if there was one - that doesnt mean its a very bright idea to implement it though as it would crash all local economies and 'enslave' all planet partners to calypso even those who so far manage to slowly build their own community and economy.

Besides thats still 70ish votes less then those who want tp's entirely gone - https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?217198-Remove-TP-s-! ;)

There is plenty of forum categories for non space related topics - doesnt mean those players have to clutter creative threads - their contructive input is still welcome.
 
You keep quoting that poll but 3 out of 3 options are to remove teleporters. I don't know if you just want to be funny or what.

I'm trying really hard to have a constructive debate.

It doesnt matter that you could only vote against tp's in it, what matters is the number of people who voted against them is still higher then the number of people who voted for interplanetary tp's - that shows that you are far from having a 'majority' and are still a 'minority'.
 
It doesnt matter that you could only vote against tp's in it, what matters is the number of people who voted against them is still higher then the number of people who voted for interplanetary tp's - that shows that you are far from having a 'majority' and are still a 'minority'.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't prove anything because there is no alternative.

You played the humor factor and got troll votes, and now you pretend it was all serious and use it as proof.

Can you please atleast try?
 
It doesnt matter that you could only vote against tp's in it, what matters is the number of people who voted against them is still higher then the number of people who voted for interplanetary tp's - that shows that you are far from having a 'majority' and are still a 'minority'.

usually im quite neutral in this but that was just a stupid conclusion.
biased views exist on both sides unfortunately.
 
No, it doesn't. It doesn't prove anything because there is no alternative.

You played the humor factor and got troll votes, and now you pretend it was all serious and use it as proof.

Can you please atleast try?

You think someone who likes TP's votes against them out of humor ? I wouldnt vote at all if there was no option for me.

Besides that vote wasnt even about interplanetary tp's in which case the number of votes likely would have been even higher , the poll was about a much more impacting decision of removing them all together and give up a convenience part people got to like already and still it got 124 votes.

You are welcome in making your own poll with 'fair' options to see - unlike the interplanetary tp poll which did not have fair options either by giving one vote pro tp's and 3 votes for something else to split up the opposition.
Besides as i pointed out before who wouldnt use a free tp if there was one ? Even i would - it would still be damaging for the game.
Question should have been if people think that it would be good for the game to have an free interplanetary tp.
But then many democracies constantly make stupid economic decisions by going for what the 'masses' want and keep increasing their debts until crash... ;)
 
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You think someone who likes TP's votes against them out of humor ? I wouldnt vote at all if there was no option for me.

Besides that vote wasnt even about interplanetary tp's in which case the number of votes likely would have been even higher , the poll was about a much more impacting decision of removing them all together and give up a convenience part people got to like already and still it got 124 votes.

You are welcome in making your own poll with 'fair' options to see - unlike the interplanetary tp poll which did not have fair options either by giving one vote pro tp's and 3 votes for something else to split up the opposition.
Besides as i pointed out before who wouldnt use a free tp if there was one ? Even i would - it would still be damaging for the game.

isnt less turnover hurting the game even more?
 
isnt less turnover hurting the game even more?

Quick turnover means people hunting the same stuff again and gain, this leads to 'overproduction' of certain products which in turn crashes the markup and makes the majority of players loose money which in turn frustrates the majority of players over time leading to people stopping to play and not making any turnover at all.

More variety of what is hunted with a wider spread of the products 'produced' would lead to stronger markups which in turn would make players profit more, more happy and more likely to advertise the game to other players which in turn increase the overall income for mindark through growing customer base and an even better game through more development for all players.
This of course requires mindark and planet partners to provide the right blueprints and need/want for endproducts to make use of a wide spread product avilability as well as to assure that different materials drop from different mobs and in different places and to avoid that universal materials drop everywhere.

The galactica mission is a good example how a great idea that could have assured loot with high markups from a risky environment (space) got destroyed by making the mission drops available planetside in such abundance that all markup dropped to zero and the endproducts ended up less valueable then the sum of components needed to get them - which sadly is the case for most entropia missions and shows the bad state of our economy (At no point in an economy should cost + effort = loss).

I will add that a short production chain is needed in very small economies to get things running , but the larger economies grow the more important it gets to have a deeper production chain that puts out demands for the supplychain. But however short a production chain is - overproduction is never a good thing.
 
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These arguments reminds me of the old coots who want to ban/criminalize porn or prostitutes because they don't personally like it or agree with it. It's absolutely pathetic. Shit arguments from the intellectually challenged.
 
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Quick turnover means people hunting the same stuff again and gain, this leads to 'overproduction' of certain products which in turn crashes the markup and makes the majority of players loose money which in turn frustrates the majority of players over time leading to people stopping to play and not making any turnover at all.

More variety of what is hunted with a wider spread of the products 'produced' would lead to stronger markups which in turn would make players profit more, more happy and more likely to advertise the game to other players which in turn increase the overall income for mindark through growing customer base and an even better game through more development for all players.
This of course requires mindark and planet partners to provide the right blueprints and need/want for endproducts to make use of a wide spread product avilability as well as to assure that different materials drop from different mobs and in different places and to avoid that universal materials drop everywhere.

The galactica mission is a good example how a great idea that could have assured loot with high markups from a risky environment (space) got destroyed by making the mission drops available planetside in such abundance that all markup dropped to zero and the endproducts ended up less valueable then the sum of components needed to get them - which sadly is the case for most entropia missions and shows the bad state of our economy (At no point in an economy should cost + effort = loss).

thats a bad example. the resto chips would ALLWAYS be worth less than the component costs to put it together. first of all lots of people have it. those who want to sell it would need to undercut the price of the components because otherwise the buyer could just get the components and make it himself.
the lack of markup results ultimatively in bad blueprints and useless crafting crap.
and last of all if you remove all tps, 90% of the people would hover around in a highly dense populated area to keep traveling costs low and ensure a fast turnover for their loot. example of this is the momentary planet system. most people stay on caly or ark because they can sell their loot there quickly to ensure that they can be hunting or mining faster again. otherwise a lot more people would be stuck to toulan as the stuff there has markup (mining wise)
 
thats a bad example. the resto chips would ALLWAYS be worth less than the component costs to put it together. first of all lots of people have it. those who want to sell it would need to undercut the price of the components because otherwise the buyer could just get the components and make it himself.
the lack of markup results ultimatively in bad blueprints and useless crafting crap.
and last of all if you remove all tps, 90% of the people would hover around in a highly dense populated area to keep traveling costs low and ensure a fast turnover for their loot. example of this is the momentary planet system. most people stay on caly or ark because they can sell their loot there quickly to ensure that they can be hunting or mining faster again. otherwise a lot more people would be stuck to toulan as the stuff there has markup (mining wise)

Actually if the component would be hard to get they would build a markup which could be growing based on demand leading to the value of the final resto chip increasing and therefor motivating evewn more players to obtain the chips through the questchain and pushing the mu further.
The reason why people undercut each other is the high availability of the endproduct compared to the demand, which only happened because the components dropped in such abundance. overproduction killed the chips value in the end.

Yes with no tps more people would hang out close to the 'cities' continue to cycle their peds at a loss like they currently do - but over time more and more people would start traveling in the further regions obtaining stuff that got rare and valueable and come back toi the cities with a profit. Trade chains would start connecting cities with far away places as more players decide to work 'countryside' while relying on social infrastructure.
 
Actually if the component would be hard to get they would build a markup which could be growing based on demand leading to the value of the final resto chip increasing and therefor motivating evewn more players to obtain the chips through the questchain and pushing the mu further.
The reason why people undercut each other is the high availability of the endproduct compared to the demand, which only happened because the components dropped in such abundance. overproduction killed the chips value in the end.

Yes with no tps more people would hang out close to the 'cities' continue to cycle their peds at a loss like they currently do - but over time more and more people would start traveling in the further regions obtaining stuff that got rare and valueable and come back toi the cities with a profit. Trade chains would start connecting cities with far away places as more players decide to work 'countryside' while relying on social infrastructure.

and still that doesnt happen on a noticable base planetwise. the situation would be exactly the same. but still its not really happening.
 
and still that doesnt happen on a noticable base planetwise. the situation would be exactly the same. but still its not really happening.

cause mindark hasnt done their job yet - they have to much universal components and most of their blueprints dont really set opportunities apart.


Whats the point in looting calypso universal stuff in space for example ? Its not like a space hunter could in any way compete with the efficiency of a planetside hunter.


Distance comes automatically when tps are less available or wider spread apart and it creates opportunity for those with less then top gear to compete on the market through choice of the right location instead of choice of the best gear - provided that there is such a thing as local materials that are of use to the economy (job of mindark/planetpartners).
 
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cause mindark hasnt done their job yet - they have to much universal components and most of their blueprints dont really set opportunities apart.


Whats the point in looting calypso universal stuff in space for example ? Its not like a space hunter could in any way compete with the efficiency of a planetside hunter.

I like the way this thread is going right now, because it is about a better functioning of an economy. It just so happens that this could apply to space too as something which provides 'distance' and effort/risk (or not) between different economic centres (or what could/should be centres). Space could also be a source of needed resources not found near centres of activity - like 'farming the countryside', yes, but it isn't.

I'm a bit on the fence about the space missions example. There is no difference in EU between new and used unl stuff (ignoring tiers). Buying, using and then selling something does not follow RL price dynamics. The price depends more on the current demand once lots have been made. If it is profitable to make more and sell them, people will, but at some point the 'second-hand' market will slightly undercut the cost of production, but for a product that is still 'brand new'.

At this point the demand for the crafting mats will drop too, whether rare or not. I see this as a slightly different point, but it could affect the popularity of different source areas of resources over time. The devs would need to continue to adjust products over time. I actually have a small amount of praise for MA for naming items adjusted, improved etc, and the creeping introduction of such improved items that the playerbase can recognise and can recognise the speed MA is moving at. It improves the transparency of the speed of change :wtg:.

But the bottom line is that MA need to get big chunks sorted for the important detailed stuff to work too - but the big stuff continues to be half-baked.... so please improve space now MA, as promised for so long.
 
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