Time to Bail Out on the Cry Engine

Aloisius

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Time to Bail on the Cryengine. Now, is the time to make the change. No one else is staying with it. Even that casino rumor is gone with the wind and I'm sure it's because of the engine.

There's a lot of reasons to leave it too. There's so many ugly interfaces, player limitations and immersion breaking ideas. So many bugs and memory leaks and just sad programming caused crashes. Space was not included in the original concept so it was patched together to make it work. It doesn't even resemble real space. The mission system is obviously a problem, example the Gold Rush missions on Arkadia. Falling through the floors, getting stuck in walls, forever rezzing in of stores items and buildings with too much detail, lag caused by downloading too much detail that could be stored locally, getting hit by mobs that spawn below the surface, feet that sink into the ground. All these problems and more are BECAUSE of the difficulty working with the cry engine.

There is a lot of great things about this game. But all the little things add up and now i cant think of any.
 
You do realize how long it took Mindark to convert over to Cryengine, don't you? Moving to another engine would probably take 3 times as long...
 
I can tell you, this all is not a issue of the engine.. same would hapen with unreal too or some other engines.
Some ppl just don't have any idea about game design and the tech behind.

Its more a matter how you use the engine and how you make the code and assets. A engine is just a tool. you can build some thing nice with it or even not.

Is a matter of how you make the code and use the Engine. At least, there is no engine without any bugs.
A game engine, is a much complex tool.
 
yes. but would you rather clunk along with patches and no improvement. or take a chance to make something great
 
yes. but would you rather clunk along with patches and no improvement. or take a chance to make something great

There is no need to change the engine! It needs to make properly code and assets, and design stuff where ppl have fun with it.

Cry Engine offer everything, to build nice games. The only problem i see, is that they use cry engine 2 version, and now we are at version 5.
But i can unterstand why. Ma has build some thing like a SDK for the planet Partners, so they can build the Planet content. (improved Sandbox of Cry Engine). So it will be not so a easy task to change to version 5.
 
yes. but would you rather clunk along with patches and no improvement. or take a chance to make something great

In some ways, this game once was great, then CE2 came along...
Ship.JPG


buildfuture.jpg


3122d1215094767-anshes-bank-entropia-universe-not-hadesheim.jpg


Project0030.jpg


7.JPG


minopolis_04vs10.jpg


without it's bink video...
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Places-quot&p=3317163&viewfull=1#post3317163

and Mindark had no clue how to put the planet back together the way that it once was...
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...and-Entropia&p=2083945&viewfull=1#post2083945

I think I had to sit through about 2.5 years with a non-functional estate after vu 10 because Mindark couldn't figure out how to make the estates functional again after they threw the new game engine in game way too soon, untested, as usual.... and once they got it going again ok it all got screwed up again when Medusa Head came out since Mindark still couldn't figure out how to program the game when adding that many estates all at once... I don't want to see folks have to deal with that type of problem again... (think some are still dealing with similar problems just last year since they still haven't worked the bugs out of the system they use when putting new LAs/estates in...)
 
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A game engine isent a pre-built package that just runs the things you bolt on to it. The "engine" is simply the word used to describe the code layer as opposed to the scripting layer, which is where most gameplay functions reside. Everytime you download a update and entropia.exe gets replaced it is probably because a update was made to the "engine" by Mindark.

The issues you described are not native issues to CE2, boot up crysis1 or crysis warhead(CE2 games) and tell me if your having hit detection issues(falling through things).... spoiler: you wont find any no matter how hard you try, Same goes for the other issues you mentioned as well.

It might seem like a easy solution to just drop the monolith described as "the engine" but thats not how it works, any games company making unique games like Entropia eventually end up heavily changing whatever engine they are using. Dunia engine(the engine used by all Far cry games) is a great example of this, Dunia is a heavily modified version of CryEngine 1, not 2 or 3, CryEngine 1, that Ubisoft changed to fit there own development.

Hope that answers some questions.

Cheers
Zweshi
 
A game engine isent a pre-built package that just runs the things you bolt on to it. The "engine" is simply the word used to describe the code layer as opposed to the scripting layer, which is where most gameplay functions reside. Everytime you download a update and entropia.exe gets replaced it is probably because a update was made to the "engine" by Mindark.

The issues you described are not native issues to CE2, boot up crysis1 or crysis warhead(CE2 games) and tell me if your having hit detection issues(falling through things).... spoiler: you wont find any no matter how hard you try, Same goes for the other issues you mentioned as well.

It might seem like a easy solution to just drop the monolith described as "the engine" but thats not how it works, any games company making unique games like Entropia eventually end up heavily changing whatever engine they are using. Dunia engine(the engine used by all Far cry games) is a great example of this, Dunia is a heavily modified version of CryEngine 1, not 2 or 3, CryEngine 1, that Ubisoft changed to fit there own development.

Hope that answers some questions.

Cheers
Zweshi

Exactly this! (good to see old T3D friends)
 
"MA should drop the engine they've been with for several years and switch to a new engine....AGAIN!"

Me:

 
"MA should drop the engine they've been with for several years and switch to a new engine....AGAIN!"

Me:


Never !!!!

But please tell us about why they should do. Do you think we then get a better game.. I don't think so.
Just remember the pain, as we got cry2.
 
Switch the engine and then wait again for 2-4 years to get back the basic systems, only to discover they aren't what they used to be? Thanks, but no thanks.
 
I'm hoping to promote change - I don't really care how they do it. I think they must though. Thanks for the answers and yes I realize how hard it would be - but in this request I'm subliming for a proper programming attempt at repair - from scratch if they have to. With the right team and lead "we could make EU great again" :). But it needs to be driven home. Can't let them lollygag by apologizing for them.

We are not going to get many opportunities to ask them to change and one is coming right up. But after looking at the things posted here about how they treat existing big buyer players - like the bink thing and the LA destruction - and formally owning a store myself at sakura city where they removed item placement outside - maybe MA really is a lost cause. That would be sad to face even if (especially if) I have been in denial all this time.
 
Unless they should manage without any interruptions, they could not switch platforms without ruining all the money spent on new players and the momentum they have now.

They SHOULD have put themselves in a good position to upgrade platforms or to be flexible enough to become current but it looks like they have put themselves in quite the hole.
 
Unless they should manage without any interruptions, they could not switch platforms without ruining all the money spent on new players and the momentum they have now.

They SHOULD have put themselves in a good position to upgrade platforms or to be flexible enough to become current but it looks like they have put themselves in quite the hole.

The problem is not the engine. Is more the problem of a good and solide developing and testing.
 
Imo if they ever do a graphics engine change again (and at some point they will have to), they better make sure to have put alot of funding aside to get a big team of experts running a smooth transition.
If they try the change with their small standard team it will be utter failure, cause it will take to long, frustrate to many players and cause intense los of income.

In regards to space, i dont know why it shouldnt be possible to run space with a different graphics engine then the planets - there would be not much risk and only minor adaptations needed - the inside of big spaceships could still run on the cry2 since its located on planetside servers anyways - just the outside would need an engine that allows real 3d action.
 
The problem is not the engine. Is more the problem of a good and solide developing and testing.

While I understand that, using an old system means you're going to run into OS/hardware compatibility issues at some point.
 
Imo if they ever do a graphics engine change again (and at some point they will have to), they better make sure to have put alot of funding aside to get a big team of experts running a smooth transition.
If they try the change with their small standard team it will be utter failure, cause it will take to long, frustrate to many players and cause intense los of income.

This is exactly what I am trying to say.

Failing to plan = planning to fail!

With the player base and their money - there is no reason in the world that this is impossible. Most of us would be willing to donate, invest or even help make it work. And it doesn't have to be the same as the disaster of the last engine update. Just has to be well thought out, slowly implemented and gradually applied.
 
The big issue with EU, no matter what engine they use, is that they try to develop every
feature with a minimum of code.
They also try to fit as many features as possible using shared code.
Reason for this is to keep total amount of code to a minimum, EU could have been
way better in many ways if they had done unique code for every feature, but that
also means total amount of code would become so large so its not realistic.

Imo, they sadly restrict max amount of development per feature too hard, ending
up with a s***load of features working in a mediocre way.
If we look at development in diagram, where we use "time for development" vs
level of development", at some point level flattens out a lot while time increase,
at that point it isn't worth the time spent. Sadly, MA don't seem to go to that
point and instead cuts off development way too soon.
 
While I understand that, using an old system means you're going to run into OS/hardware compatibility issues at some point.

Exactly about this, i do update my Unreal Engine stuff / development and projects every time Unreal give out a new version. But this only work for small projects. A Game like EU is, more hard to update, every time the engine update.
Especial, if they are using modified engine verions, like they did for EU, and the cry 2 sandbox.

Quote: ***In regards to space, i dont know why it shouldnt be possible to run space with a different graphics engine then the planets***

The idea do use a 2. engine for Space and instances is not bad, and how i know, MA is thinking about such things.
 
Time to Bail on the Cryengine. Now, is the time to make the change. No one else is staying with it. Even that casino rumor is gone with the wind and I'm sure it's because of the engine.

There's a lot of reasons to leave it too. There's so many ugly interfaces, player limitations and immersion breaking ideas. So many bugs and memory leaks and just sad programming caused crashes. Space was not included in the original concept so it was patched together to make it work. It doesn't even resemble real space. The mission system is obviously a problem, example the Gold Rush missions on Arkadia. Falling through the floors, getting stuck in walls, forever rezzing in of stores items and buildings with too much detail, lag caused by downloading too much detail that could be stored locally, getting hit by mobs that spawn below the surface, feet that sink into the ground. All these problems and more are BECAUSE of the difficulty working with the cry engine.

There is a lot of great things about this game. But all the little things add up and now i cant think of any.

Please dont put any more stupid ideas in their heads, there is enough there already. That would require a lot of money and they already sold everything but their pants in form of deeds. Even now I think they are charging more then this game is worth, a reason im not around anymore. If I were to lose more playing for some stupid idea as another change of engine I would leave in instant.
 
If it's not broken, dont fix it.
 
The way forward is to have the game online and played over the internet that way it would be more future proof and would work on more platforms including smartphones/tablets. Anything that can use the internet.

PC's on the other hand are prone to a short life expectancy compared to the internet e.g. new hardware and software upgrades and older ones becoming obsolete.
 
The way forward is to have the game online and played over the internet that way it would be more future proof and would work on more platforms including smartphones/tablets. Anything that can use the internet.

PC's on the other hand are prone to a short life expectancy compared to the internet e.g. new hardware and software upgrades and older ones becoming obsolete.

thats a troll post isnt it?
Ken M is that you?
 
Most of the problem identified are more to do with the speed at which the servers can process data not the graphics engine.
 
The way forward is to have the game online and played over the internet that way it would be more future proof and would work on more platforms including smartphones/tablets. .

Ehm... since when EU dont run over the internet? Do they have an other internet?

You just need to buy a win tablet, and it run also at tablets... ok with a very poor grafic.
Some games, are just not good for Smarth phones. do you think a smarthphon tech is better as a pc with high end grafic card? May pokemon is good for tablets and phones, if you like this tech.
oh, and also Compet :)
 
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The way forward is to have the game online and played over the internet that way it would be more future proof and would work on more platforms including smartphones/tablets. Anything that can use the internet.

PC's on the other hand are prone to a short life expectancy compared to the internet e.g. new hardware and software upgrades and older ones becoming obsolete.

I like to believe that I'm usually pretty fair handed and reasonable.
But I'm gonna have to call that a troll post by someone with a vested interest in the smartphone/tablet industry.
Or, OR! Just written by someone without a clue, or has extremely low expectations of games and graphics.
 
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Ehm... since when EU dont run over the internet? Do they have an other internet?

You just need to buy a win tablet, and it run also at tablets... ok with a very poor grafic.
Some games, are just not good for Smarth phones. do you think a smarthphon tech is better as a pc with high end grafic card? May pokemon is good for tablets and phones, if you like this tech.
oh, and also Compet :)
I think he means this type of service:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/cloud-gaming.html

Now with revolutionary NVIDIA GRID cloud gaming technology, you'll soon be able to stream video games from the web just like any other streaming media. GRID renders 3D games in cloud servers, encodes each frame instantly and streams the result to any device with a wired or wireless broadband connection.


That's if I am interpreting his post correctly. And, if so - while I haven't done extensive research on it - it sure sounds expensive to run. Almost certainly far more expensive than MindArk would be willing to handle. And the problem with these services is the cost is likely to outweigh the benefit for the provider.
 
I think he means this type of service:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/cloud-gaming.html



That's if I am interpreting his post correctly. And, if so - while I haven't done extensive research on it - it sure sounds expensive to run. Almost certainly far more expensive than MindArk would be willing to handle. And the problem with these services is the cost is likely to outweigh the benefit for the provider.

Oh man..
Cloud gaming is not made for games like EU. Maybe in 5 years we can talk about this theme, if smartphones really have a powerfull grafic acceleretor.
Phones and most tablets just don't have the same grafic shader technology as it is done for PC. if i will make a game, running on smarthphones and pc. then i have to use the lowest shader sheme of the engine, so it work at every platform.

Cloud gaming for a game like EU, would also need that you have a powerfull internet connection... way more power, as most ppl have by play EU on PC.

You also would get delayd interaction, and may rubberband moving. All pvp players would hate the cloud gaming. this is the main reason, why not use cloud gaming for EU. Games like EU are not ideal for cloud gaming!
 
Oh man..
Cloud gaming is not made for games like EU. Maybe in 5 years we can talk about this theme, if smartphones really have a powerfull grafic acceleretor.
Phones and most tablets just don't have the same grafic shader technology as it is done for PC. if i will make a game, running on smarthphones and pc. then i have to use the lowest shader sheme of the engine, so it work at every platform.

Cloud gaming for a game like EU, would also need that you have a powerfull internet connection... way more power, as most ppl have by play EU on PC.

You also would get delayd interaction, and may rubberband moving. All pvp players would hate the cloud gaming. this is the main reason, why not use cloud gaming for EU. Games like EU are not ideal for cloud gaming!
I would say MindArk is more of a limiting factor than the game itself, but let's not be nit-picky. I agree with this. :)
 
No MA is not the limiting factor when it comes to using gaming on demand services. :laugh:
And I really-really doubt another 5 years will make any difference in the internet infrastructure.
I've heard 'maybe another 5 years' since at least 2000 for gaming on demand services and yet when the net gets faster, it seems people fill it with stuff to slow it down.
But even if the net's backbone gets faster games/graphics expectations also increase and this means bandwidth.

And let's put this all into context here.
People said PC's and PC games were dead around 2000 and consoles-only games made the top 5 sales lists.
Yet in the last few years it's games released on both PC and console that now take most top 5 sales.
ie.
2015: The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, Rocket League, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, Bloodborne, Super Mario Maker - Nintendo
2010: Call of Duty: Black Ops, FIFA 11, Just Dance, Red Dead Redemption, Wii Fit Plus
2005: Madden NFL 06, Pokemon Emerald, Gran Turismo 4, Madden NFL 06, NCAA Football 06
2000: Pokémon Stadium, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Gran Turismo 2

PS. Still nothing comes close to beating # (legal) copies sold of simple old Tetris circa 1984.
 
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