This war is a pretense

A few key definitions first.

integrity
noun
1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.

principles
noun
1. a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning.

fundamental
adjective
1. forming a necessary base or core; of central importance.

hypocrisy
adjective
1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.


I am a space pvp'er or Pirate, which ever you prefer, I do not claim to be anything else and I will shoot you down and attempt to loot you given the opportunity. I don't have to lie or scam anyone to achieve this and I have no ethical or moral problems with space pvp. I kill everyone not on my friends list, if you turn and fight me you will still lose but if somehow you manage to beat me will probably have a nice payday as I don't bother putting my loot in storage anymore.

That being said I want to talk about the "pirate hunter" for a minute. I won't name him but you know who he is and that he works for the Kronan. I have had the many chats with him about space piracy and he has always told me the reason he would not participate in piracy was:

• Doesn't want to shoot unarmed travelers or those that don't have the ability or desire to fight back.

That's fine if that how he feels, nothing wrong with that. But....ever since the Varyag used the pirates to shoot down the Kronan the pirate hunter has decided to label every member of the Varyag crew a pirate and THEREFORE camps them and loots them in space. The Varyag crew list is probably over 400 and when NVE was on it maybe 5 in total ever participated in the space fights against Kronan. 99% of the people on that ship use it to skill, have never attempted space pvp, don't possess the ability to shoot back and don't want to participate in the space politics.

If he sees a person flying out of planet RT going to caly in a sleipner that has crewed on the Varyag, hes shooting them and looting them. He often will camp the Varyag and wait for repair skillers to fly to planet so he can loot them. He even spam kills specific people from the Varyag at times.

Imagine the Varyag and the Kronan are two nations at war....this guy isn't fighting solders hes going house to house pillaging the defenseless while claiming moral superiority. Remeber 99% of the Varyag crew have nothing to do with the issues with Kronan and Normandie, they just want to skill in space and have no other place to go. Kronan has said they wont take anyone from the Varyag but they will try and make them leave the Varyag??? and go where????

I don't have a problem with what he is doing as far as the looting and the game mechanics go, what I have a problem with is him claiming to somehow be above pirating when it's basically what he's doing.

You cannot hold on to a principle to prop yourself up above others and then discard it when it benefits you. You cannot chastise pirates for shooting unarmed travelers and then do the same without facing the same reprimand.

Please save the personal attacks for page 10....let people that want to address what I've said speak first

Ok....

So what your saying is, even though I have never shot down another ship (I have shot back at Pirates on occasion) this person in question believes I am a Justifiable Target because I occasionally repair skill on the Varyag?

StarDrifter said:

Ok....

So what your saying is, even though I have never shot down another ship (I have shot back at Pirates on occasion) this person in question believes I am a Justifiable Target because I occasionally repair skill on the Varyag?

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yes....you are considered a pirate and will be shot down and looted by this guy.

Its funny that pirates allways talking bout hypocrisy as you and your friends are a good example of this.
I remember when you were laying stuff on the ground (despite the warning that EVERYONE can pick it up) on RT for your gf or whatever and juicy fruit (iirc) picked it up and you were ranching about how stealing is wrong. while you steal from people in space and you say that it is okay because there is a warning and people know what they are doing.
That was seriously VERY funny and made a good laugh for the whole RT chat.
Next example is you are saying that everyone who goes into space is inside pvp and EVERYTHING is allowed there but still you guys are complaining since weeks now that other people kill other people in space pvp. aint it funny.

You post very eruditely for a pirate Xane, but you're still a pirate - and these 'space drama's' dont always get to Page 10.

The owner of the Varyag openly declared her ship had gone pirate, and specifically declared war on Kronan and Normandie.
In a war all personnel on a warship are deemed enemy.
Simple

Our crew will therefore treat all crew of the Varyag as KOS until peace is agreed.

Granny Rowan said:

The owner of the Varyag openly declared her ship had gone pirate, and specifically declared war on Kronan and Normandie.
In a war all personnel on a warship are deemed enemy.
Simple

Our crew will therefore treat all crew of the Varyag as KOS until peace is agreed.

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Right...so.....your not refuting anything I have said....

Your not at war with 400 people....its like 8 LOL....enjoy your pirating loop whole.


EDIT: Also KOS means kill on sight.....not loot on sight.

Actually I think you need reading lessons. I did not mention NVE, the pirate presence in the war/dispute/ongoing issues with Varyag were but a temporary intrusion and distraction. The owner has harassed us and shot at us off and on for over 2 years. Now we dare to shoot back at her crew, and you say we are wrong.

In your own words this is pvp...get over it !

It seems to me that there are more threads from Pirates crying than from people getting looted

Granny Rowan said:

Actually I think you need reading lessons. I did not mention NVE, the pirate presence in the war/dispute/ongoing issues with Varyag were but a temporary intrusion and distraction. The owner has harassed us and shot at us off and on for over 2 years. Now we dare to shoot back at her crew, and you say we are wrong.

In your own words this is pvp...get over it !

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I'm good on the reading lessons thanks, you cant give them to your grandson instead. When I mentioned the 8 people you are at war with I was referring to Varyag crew not NVE. That leaves 392 people that have never shot at or participated in any space PVP conflict with the Kronan that you are insisting on harassing and pirating.

When are you going to address anything I have said and offer a comprehensive explanation other that "get over it"?

Granny Rowan said:

The owner of the Varyag openly declared her ship had gone pirate, and specifically declared war on Kronan and Normandie.
In a war all personnel on a warship are deemed enemy.
Simple

Our crew will therefore treat all crew of the Varyag as KOS until peace is agreed.

Click to expand...

So, those who join the crew who are unaware of this "War" - innocents IMO - will be shot at also?

And how are you determining who is/isn't crew? - watching who enters/exits? Does that mean if one was to hire the ship for a warp, and is seen exiting the hanger, they become KoS also?

Would of been nice if I'd been notified I was on someones kill list simply because I was temporarily placed on a ship guestlist.

you -negrep me xane for being offtopic? i was fucking referrign to ur own fucking first post in this thread.
that right there is what im talkign about. and like i say it again. nobody. gives. a. fucking. damn. about. forum. reputation. points.
mods should instaclose all of these circlejerk threads to keep the people calm.

StarDrifter said:

Would of been nice if I'd been notified I was on someones kill list simply because I was temporarily placed on a ship guestlist.

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That's not how it works. You're supposed to be unsure of that, so that you'd talk less (chilling effect). That's why the list is not public.

I've allegedly been on Kronan's KoS list for almost two years now (haven't ever been shot because of a handy timezone difference) but pretty sure they're going to deny that until they catch me.

I'm not going to reply to anyone off topic, the issue I brought up is about innocent people, that didn't start the war and have no ability to stop it, being bullied.

Me Really Never and others like him can attack me personal and try to derail the thread or get it closed but hopefully the mods will just remove them from this thread and let people that actually care to have a serious discussion continue.

Xane said:

Imagine the Varyag and the Kronan are two nations at war....

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You have a big imagination.

Xane said:

When are you going to address anything I have said and offer a comprehensive explanation other that "get over it"?

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Always mandatory to post this any time someone puts a that line in the forum just because it's one of the best damn songs ever... (as well as great life advice in general)

and again this giant hypocrisy is amazing xane. you are talking bout innocent people being killed is a bad thing but that is the only fucking thing you do all day. ALL of the people YOU kill are innocent. so either stop killing people and own the right to brag about this unfairness or simply stop this defaming circlejerk bullshit.

Xane said:

That being said I want to talk about the "pirate hunter" for a minute. I won't name him but you know who he is and that he works for the Kronan. I have had the many chats with him about space piracy and he has always told me the reason he would not participate in piracy was:

• Doesn't want to shoot unarmed travelers or those that don't have the ability or desire to fight back.

If he sees a person flying out of planet RT going to caly in a sleipner that has crewed on the Varyag, hes shooting them and looting them. He often will camp the Varyag and wait for repair skillers to fly to planet so he can loot them. He even spam kills specific people from the Varyag at times.

Click to expand...

I guess "space politics" have made it hard to just label everyone as PVPers, so it usually goes wrong when someone tries to justify his/her actions by calling others pirates. This "pirate hunter" is a "pirate" by his own definition and are just trying to find a way to save his rep and continue to loot others. Must be a really arrogant individual and probably have a weird moral compass. Call him what he is by his own set of view: Pirate.

Anyway, it would be a lot simpler if everyone just PVP in space as they like, but I guess "space politics" is too complicated for that. Although, this is not true because what it really seem to be is that:

Space is filled with BS drama involving a lot of unstable narcissistic individuals that insult and troll eachother instead of just playing the game and have reasonable human behaviour.

Why should we care about pirates' KoS lists if u pirates are gonna kill space travelers anyways.
Well, actually: Why should we care about KoS lists in lootable pvp anyways

Xane said:

I'm not going to reply to anyone off topic, the issue I brought up is about innocent people, that didn't start the war and have no ability to stop it, being bullied.

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As far as bullying goes, etc. It's PVP. If you don't like it like that perhaps you should stop asking others to conform to how you wish for them to act there, and start asking Mindark to change space in some way to make it not be PvP any longer, or re-implement the interplanetary tp system that once existed before it got removed, setting us back quite a few years technology-wise as far as the story line goes in game.

Me Really Never said:

and again this giant hypocrisy is amazing xane. you are talking bout innocent people being killed is a bad thing but that is the only fucking thing you do all day. ALL of the people YOU kill are innocent. so either stop killing people and own the right to brag about this unfairness or simply stop this defaming circlejerk bullshit.

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Your comprehension skills are truly amazing...

I never said I had a problem with people getting killed in space in fact I said the exact opposite(reading and remembering is hard I know). The issue I have is killing people and looting them and saying your not pirating....the issue I have is telling people that your targeting that they are pirates and that why they are being killed when they have never pirated....the issue I have is harassing people for being a part of a ship and giving them no where else to go if they decide they don't want to be harassed anymore.

Please try to put your hard on for me personally aside for a minute MRN and focus on the topic.

stc44 said:

Why should we care about pirates' KoS lists if u pirates are gonna kill space travelers anyways.
Well, actually: Why should we care about KoS lists in lootable pvp anyways

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I wasn't talking about a pirate's KOS list, you would be correct not to care because we kill everyone, I was talking about the Kronan's KOS. Unless you were cleverly insinuating that the Kronan is a pirate ship in that case +1 for you.

mastermesh said:

As far as bullying goes, etc. It's PVP. If you don't like it like that perhaps you should stop asking others to conform to how you wish for them to act there, and start asking Mindark to change space in some way to make it not be PvP any longer, or re-implement the interplanetary tp system that once existed before it got removed, setting us back quite a few years technology-wise as far as the story line goes in game.

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Again read what I said.....I don't have a problem with PVP(obviously). Not going to rewrite the issue read it again if you don't understand it.

Xane said:

Your comprehension skills are truly amazing...

I never said I had a problem with people getting killed in space in fact I said the exact opposite(reading and remembering is hard I know). The issue I have is killing people and looting them and saying your not pirating....the issue I have is telling people that your targeting that they are pirates and that why they are being killed when they have never pirated....the issue I have is harassing people for being a part of a ship and giving them no where else to go if they decide they don't want to be harassed anymore.

Please try to put your hard on for me personally aside for a minute MRN and focus on the topic.

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i quote every pirate ever: "its space. its pvp. you agree to it being pvp as there is even a warning about it. and in pvp everything is allowed."
sounds familiar?
so why do you complain?
and the thing you were complaining about is hypocrisy. check ur first post and you will find it. not too hard right? the thing is you and ur friends are the biggest hypocrits ever. you simply dont have the right to complain about anything that happens in space as you and ur friends all have done the same, still do the same, and will allways do the same. in regard to your own statements. just shut the fuck up and leave it as pvp, what it is. which means everyone, for whatever reason, will get killed eventually and should be prepared for that.
my daily dose of bullshit from idiots is reached now..

Me Really Never said:

i quote every pirate ever: "its space. its pvp. you agree to it being pvp as there is even a warning about it. and in pvp everything is allowed."
sounds familiar?
so why do you complain?
and the thing you were complaining about is hypocrisy. check ur first post and you will find it. not too hard right? the thing is you and ur friends are the biggest hypocrits ever. you simply dont have the right to complain about anything that happens in space as you and ur friends all have done the same, still do the same, and will allways do the same. in regard to your own statements. just shut the fuck up and leave it as pvp, what it is. which means everyone, for whatever reason, will get killed eventually and should be prepared for that.
my daily dose of bullshit from idiots is reached now..

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Yeah I'm kinda done with you too, there is something wrong with your brain or some language barrier or something. You never seem to understand things I say, but always manage to insult me. Not sure if this is a form of flirting? I do have a GF fyi.....

Xane said:

Again read what I said.....I don't have a problem with PVP(obviously). Not going to rewrite the issue read it again if you don't understand it.

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I completely understand what you are saying... 'moral codes' go by the way side for many any time pvp (or sometimes non-pvp occassions such as mob trains, etc.) come up...

As far as the Kronan goes, well, lets just say that while the current leadership may have higher moral code than some of the previous folks running the mother ship/society/group of societies (long history of morally doing/saying one thing and behind the scenes doing something completely the opposite, sometimes in secret, other times not so much so), every one of the folks behind any avatar in game is human...

Honestly, if folks are getting pissy about sieps getting shot down, they should really re-evaluate how they travel. Those slow moving things are click bait for anyone in space. Quads are a bit more pricey, but there's a reason for that... Also, folks should really consider when they travel... There's certain hours of certain days of the weeks when no one's online, or at least not online sitting there waiting to kill you in space. Just like irl, timing a flight for the best price is a tricky maneuver.

Xane said:

Yeah I'm kinda done with you too, there is something wrong with your brain or some language barrier or something. You never seem to understand things I say, but always manage to insult me. Not sure if this is a form of flirting? I do have a GF fyi.....

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thing is: i point out what you said in your own post while u say it is offtopic. maybe you should reread your own post.
and as you fail to comment on any of my arguments, which make em look valid, the biggest question of all is:
why does a pirate with basically no moral standard complain about the motives of others when he said that everything is allowed in pvp?
and sorry to burst ur bubble but im not gay. and believe me. nobody (!) would flirt with a moronic egocentric dickhead hypocritical dickhead like you.

To me every player that shot down other player and loot him is a pirate (in space) and a bandit (on the ground).

So now you're using the innocents as a tool to put pressure on your opponent in this war which you are a firm and committed part of. Sure, every war is fought on the propaganda front as well. Place a dead child on a beach and send the picture around the world...? It works every time, even after being debunked.

Every decent ship captain instructs his or her crew, especially new repairers, to avoid any risk and leave all lootables behind. So theoretically, there should be no risk to them at all regardless the circumstances. Short of people being outright reckless or even doing it on purpose to create certain situations, there should be no leverage that could be used with the non-combattants.

I just don't understand any of this. What is the OP's problem. You admit to being a pirate, you admit to shooting anyone (except your friends) down in space - you loot them.

You have no right to take the moral high ground on any player or group of players who do exactly the same as you. Now if you were a repair / skiller on the M/S and you were hunted down and killed by the so called "pirate hunter" then you would have a case to argue.

As it is you are just banging on about someone else's behaviour (which I might add is identical to yours) because you find it morally objectionable. Now that is Hypocrisy !!!

The only thing that matters here is this :

IT IS PVP

Thats it - case dismissed - next.