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This war is a pretense

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moondog said:
I just don't understand any of this. What is the OP's problem. You admit to being a pirate, you admit to shooting anyone (except your friends) down in space - you loot them.

You have no right to take the moral high ground on any player or group of players who do exactly the same as you. Now if you were a repair / skiller on the M/S and you were hunted down and killed by the so called "pirate hunter" then you would have a case to argue.

As it is you are just banging on about someone else's behaviour (which I might add is identical to yours) because you find it morally objectionable. Now that is Hypocrisy !!!

The only thing that matters here is this :

IT IS PVP

Thats it - case dismissed - next.
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absolutely correct. but as xane's sole purpose of this thread is trying to defame the other side of this war. like in every single other fucking thread of them as well. and its getting really tiring that they cry so much lately. last week was nice as they were banned and couldnt cry so much but seems the ban wore off and its starting over again.

maybe though xane has a serious case of gods complex that makes him stand out and above of others for whatever reason. he seems to think that he is morally superior to all others and thus can judge everyones motives.
otherwise i dont get why he cares so much about what others label themselves. they call themselves pirates because they kill anyone and this person this thread seems to be about labels himself pirate hunter as he kills everyone connected with pirates in any way. i dont see any problem here. everyone can call himself what he wants and act accordingly. people need to know that when they get involved with known pirates that they will be labeled pirates as well.
if you accompany with isis people will call you a terrorist as well. even if you just help em repair their weapons. which is technically what people repairing varyag are doing.
 
Varyag services are recommended by NVE
NVE pirates are picking sides with Varyag 'after' they have 'officially' left Varyag
Varyag team is advertising a 'free channel' every day everywhere which is used mainly by pirates and varyag crew to slander other services
Varyag owner created this whole mixed up mess by allowing pirates onboard mixed in with the 'crew' and allowing said pirates/crew to attack other ships
Varyag is at war with ToS and KISS
In this war the use of many alt accounts has been detected for the purpose of intel and propaganda in which Varyag and pirates attempt to create a false impression of what actually happened
In this conflict some individuals take actions outside of the game, as has been the case with the infiltration of KISS webchat to make false announcement


Anyone who thinks that after the mess described above anyone can 'crew' / 'travel' Varyag and there will be no consequences whatsoever from it is disillusional - pirates and varyag 'wanted' a messed up / blurry 'line' when they decided to mix piracy with offering a service (skilling/transports) - now they got it...
 
I have never looted anyone and Morgoth who claims not to be a pirate has shot me up several times and checked my pockets and has shot and looted Varyag crew and passengers who have nothing to do with this economic war that rowan and john black knight have dressed up as a moral one. rowan and jbk keep trumpeting about Varyag declaring itself a pirate ship and declaring war it is very funny. rowan and john black knight have been telling lies and slandering Varyag and crew and myself. They need to pretend Varyag started this war to cover up their lies and hypocrisy.

Get over yourselves rowan and jbk. You have strong need to look good and not look bad. You care about ped more then people and dont want the community to know that central truth about yourselves.

Now on to what this post is about as I understand it.
Xane has pointed out he knows he is a pirate. Xane also pointed out Morgoth shoots and loots unarmed civilians that he determines as being in any way associated with Varyag. Xane noted Morgoth does this by camping Varyag. Morgoth also follows Varyag around and shoots and loots civilian travellers as they leave Varyag.

Now everyone understands about space pvp and consenting to it when they enter space. Xane is simply saying that Morgoth pretends he is some moral upright citizen fighting for some worthy cause when the reality is Morgoth is a pirate same as Xane who will shoot armed or unarmed civilians to make ped as does any other pirate.

As for the idea to bring back planetary teleports YES YES YES YES
Lets do it!!!
The game would be SO MUCH HEALTHIER without the toxic politics now being played out.
Let players themselves decide if they are in mood to tangle with pirates and pretend we not pirates or if they prefer to use planetary teleports.

I as a mothership owner know full well the possible risk to my investment advocating for planetary teleports but space has descended to such a sorry state of politics and vitriol it would be best for game and community for players to have option to avoid this drama.
 
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Who shoots is: PIRATE

No matter what they call themselves!
 
Yoshii Lem said:
I have never looted anyone and Morgoth who claims not to be a pirate has shot me up several times and checked my pockets and has shot and looted Varyag crew who have nothing to do with this economic war that rowan and john black knight have dressed up as a moral one. They keep trumpeting about Varyag declaring itself a pirate ship and declaring war it is very funny. rowan and john black knight have been telling lies and slandering Varyag and crew and myself. They need to pretend Varyag started this war to cover up their lies and hypocrisy.

Get over yourselves rowan and jbk. You have strong need to look good and not look bad. You care about ped more then people and dont want the community to know that central truth about yourselves.
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didnt the varyag summon random people into space to kill and loot them? didnt varyag cooperate with NVE? i wonder why you claim you have nothing to do with this war...
 
GoNi said:
Who shoots is: PIRATE

No matter what they call themselves!
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counterquestion:
when you kill kim jong un, would that make you a murderer and should you get the death sentence for it? or would it make you a hero and you would get a medal? the world is not black and white.
 
So if I understand this right XAne is not happy a so called pirate hunter is shooting people who have servered on yoshi ms. Because Granny and jbk has labeled her a pirate. So I don't see the difference with xane and the so called pirate hunter.
 
Yoshii Lem said:
You care about ped more then people and dont want the community to know that central truth about yourselves.
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That comming from a 'selfdeclared' pirate is kinda laughable - if there is one thing to be sure about pirates who avoid fights when they cant loot , dont carry loot but do loot others regardless who they are then its what you just said above.

In case you forgot where you 'declared' yourself - feel free to read up in tos kos list thread, of course we also have plenty of chatlogs for reference - but actions speak better then words and the youtube video of varyag attacking normandie and bragging about it back in november is still out there.
We killed Varyag 16 times since then, i guess it starts to hurt hence why all these threads keep popping up trying new levers of propaganda.
 
Yoshii Lem said:
I have never looted anyone and Morgoth who claims not to be a pirate has shot me up several times and checked my pockets and has shot and looted Varyag crew who have nothing to do with this economic war that rowan and john black knight have dressed up as a moral one. They keep trumpeting about Varyag declaring itself a pirate ship and declaring war it is very funny. rowan and john black knight have been telling lies and slandering Varyag and crew and myself. They need to pretend Varyag started this war to cover up their lies and hypocrisy.

Get over yourselves rowan and jbk. You have strong need to look good and not look bad. You care about ped more then people and dont want the community to know that central truth about yourselves.
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You may not have looted anyone but you have allowed others to use your ship to do so. You also announced to your crew in your open channel that you were now a pirate ship.

No lies in what is being told, unless you are talking about yourself.

StarDrifter said:
Ok....

So what your saying is, even though I have never shot down another ship (I have shot back at Pirates on occasion) this person in question believes I am a Justifiable Target because I occasionally repair skill on the Varyag?
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Yoshii stated in her declaration of War on Kronan and Normandie that she will not be able to sort out who is crew and who is innocent so all would be looted. Seems kind of hypocritical to criticize others for doing this too.

She also warns her crew that she runs a fighting ship and they need to be ok with that. If you are not, I suggest you find a new home for repair skilling.
 
In all the time I have owned Varyag and in all the time the owner previous to me owned Varyag there have NEVER been any people summoned up to Varyag to be looted or to be harmed or tricked in any manner whatsoever.
 
bigdaddy trim said:
So if I understand this right XAne is not happy a so called pirate hunter is shooting people who have servered on yoshi ms. Because Granny and jbk has labeled her a pirate. So I don't see the difference with xane and the so called pirate hunter.
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I think that's the point, this "Pirate Hunter" has labelled everyone entering/leaving Varyag as a Pirate so that he/she has an excuse to target them.

Sionkiewicz said:
She also warns her crew that she runs a fighting ship and they need to be ok with that. If you are not, I suggest you find a new home for repair skilling.
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I must of missed that warning - as did the scheduled warp passengers when I was last on the Varyag.
 
The community is free to listen to the tapes where rowan and her buddies in their own words condemn themselves likewise same for john black knight in the forum he himself prove he is criminal with his attempt at extortion why do i care what criminals say? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
Yoshii Lem said:
The community is free to listen to the tapes where rowan and her buddies in their own words condemn themselves likewise same for john black knight in the forum he himself prove he is criminal with his attempt at extortion why do i care what criminals say? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
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cos u obviously care bout what NVE says? yoshii.exe stopped working. please reboot.
 
StarDrifter said:
I must of missed that warning - as did the scheduled warp passengers when I was last on the Varyag.
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That is sad to hear, since she should warn passengers that they are onboard of a pirate ship and therefor a valid target to be shot down for several other stronger ships out there knowing that there have already been multiple kills of the ship right at the start of its first schedule.
But then considering that you are on varyag and likely in her chatchannels, im sure she has given you plenty of false information of why ToS and KISS are bad so you should be pretty aware of the risks you take when onboard ;)
 
Can we be accurate please?
I do say that Varyag is frequently attacked and that passengers with loot must log off and use space station teleport to keep their loot. Do not know why people are pretending I do not warn passengers.

Maybe I am confused about something.

Are Kronan and Normandie formally declaring that they are at war with civilian passengers? When Morgoth shot me and checked my pockets I did warn passengers that kronan crew Morgoth pirate was around shooting and looting.

Really is this why I am now bad person? Because before my last scheduled run I was ignorant that Kronan and Normandie are at war against civiilian passengers? Please declare your intentions so I can properly warn passengers that they are at risk from Kronan and Normandie. Or should I err on side of safety and warn all passengers this is now the case?
 
you cant be serious yoshii... did you think that "pirate hunter" differentiate between the crew and passengers? how should they know who is who? also it must have consequences when you are cooperating with self-declared pirates and thats what you get. i dont know what you were expecting when suddenly openign a scheduled warp service while being knowingly at war. you put your customers at risk. you should have known this as you have been shot down multiple times. such a poor try at defaming others. you just grab some innocent customers as some kind of meat shield in front of you and hope for all this to wear off. shame on you.
 
omfg arent you all tired of those threads soon.......


If you shoot and loot peoples thats what you actually do, the morals are the same no matter what the underlying reason is.


Nobodys a Saint as long as you do more then just protecting your flights, now get on with it and get stronger and shoot eachother some more and chat some less!
 
That is interesting speculation... that I grab customers for meat shield? Why? I do not transport loot. I am providing free warping to help the community. You have never heard me whine about being shot in pvp. Of course when I got shot by kronan pirate I am going to warn passengers that is what a responsible transport provider does.

Thank you for clearing up that yes indeed civilian travellers are indeed at risk to be shot and looted by kronan and normandie pirates. I appreciate your honesty in this.

I assure all of community warnings that anyone associated with Varyag including passengers will be emphasized and made clear so that all passengers using MIDNIGHT EXPRESS FREE WARPING are fully aware of risk.

AGAIN I WILL STATE THE TRUTH OF MY ALWAYS HAVING WARNED PASSENGERS THAT VARYAG IS FREQUENTLY ATTACKED. I INVITE ANYONE TO CHECK THEIR OWN INGAME LOGS TO PROVE THIS IS TRUE.

Thank you again Kronan and Normandie for stepping forward and admitting you are at war with any civilian traveller as well as your usual war against Varyag crew.
 
Yoshii Lem said:
That is interesting speculation... that I grab customers for meat shield? Why? I do not transport loot. I am providing free warping to help the community. You have never heard me whine about being shot in pvp. Of course when I got shot by kronan pirate I am going to warn passengers that is what a responsible transport provider does.

Thank you for clearing up that yes indeed civilian travellers are indeed at risk to be shot and looted by kronan and normandie pirates. I appreciate your honesty in this.

I assure all of community warnings about Varyag, crew, and passengers will be emphasized and made clear so that all passengers using MIDNIGHT EXPRESS FREE WARPING are fully aware of risk.

AGAIN I WILL STATE THE TRUTH OF MY ALWAYS HAVING WARNED PASSENGERS THAT VARYAG IS FREQUENTLY ATTACKED. I INVITE ANYONE TO CHECK THEIR OWN INGAME LOGS TO PROVE THIS IS TRUE.

Thank you again Kronan and Normandie for stepping forward and admitting you are at war with any civilian traveller as well as your usual war against Varyag crew.
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how you put the words around is just lol...
anyone using varyag is at risk. anyone using another one of the many warp services are not.
and i meant mean shield on a more psychological level rather than physical. you use your customers and put them at risk so you try to get a moral advantage in your personal vendetta. thats all. your customers are just a tool you use and nothing more. and i kinda feel sad for everyone using your service without knowing what he gets into beforehand.
you guys are just ridicolous. if you would put your customers first before everyone else you would try to do your part to end this vendetta. instead you just gather casualties around you. such a poor behaviour.
and just to clear this up: im not talking for kronan or normandie or anyone else. im neutral in this but im just tired of this psychological bullshit every side pulls up. and lately the pirates try a lot harder in this, as you can see regarding all those cry posts from pirates.
 
Yoshii Lem said:
Thank you again Kronan and Normandie for stepping forward and admitting you are at war with any civilian traveller as well as your usual war against Varyag crew.
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Were any of your passengers looted by Kronan crew last night?

Hmm, no..

Were you the only one that got shot down and looted?

Hmm, yes..

Are you now crying about it?

Hmm, yes..
 
krogfan said:
omfg arent you all tired of those threads soon.......


If you shoot and loot peoples thats what you actually do, the morals are the same no matter what the underlying reason is.


Nobodys a Saint as long as you do more then just protecting your flights, now get on with it and get stronger and shoot eachother some more and chat some less!
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Linz remember that these people have been PK'ing for less time than us on Land, and thus still cannot grasp the rules of engagement..... ie "Hey your not in my Soc/Alliance, Your DEAD"


and as for Morgoth, By his own definition, he is a pirate. case opened and closed in once sentence.

oh btw, I'm a Pirate and a Pk'er and I also know I am a trusted member of Entropia.

If in doubt kill. you can always offer a refund if you were wrong :)
 
Xane said:
A few key definitions first.

integrity
noun
1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.

principles
noun
1. a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning.

fundamental
adjective
1. forming a necessary base or core; of central importance.

hypocrisy
adjective
1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.


I am a space pvp'er or Pirate, which ever you prefer, I do not claim to be anything else and I will shoot you down and attempt to loot you given the opportunity. I don't have to lie or scam anyone to achieve this and I have no ethical or moral problems with space pvp. I kill everyone not on my friends list, if you turn and fight me you will still lose but if somehow you manage to beat me will probably have a nice payday as I don't bother putting my loot in storage anymore.

That being said I want to talk about the "pirate hunter" for a minute. I won't name him but you know who he is and that he works for the Kronan. I have had the many chats with him about space piracy and he has always told me the reason he would not participate in piracy was:

  • Doesn't want to shoot unarmed travelers or those that don't have the ability or desire to fight back.

That's fine if that how he feels, nothing wrong with that. But....ever since the Varyag used the pirates to shoot down the Kronan the pirate hunter has decided to label every member of the Varyag crew a pirate and THEREFORE camps them and loots them in space. The Varyag crew list is probably over 400 and when NVE was on it maybe 5 in total ever participated in the space fights against Kronan. 99% of the people on that ship use it to skill, have never attempted space pvp, don't possess the ability to shoot back and don't want to participate in the space politics.

If he sees a person flying out of planet RT going to caly in a sleipner that has crewed on the Varyag, hes shooting them and looting them. He often will camp the Varyag and wait for repair skillers to fly to planet so he can loot them. He even spam kills specific people from the Varyag at times.

Imagine the Varyag and the Kronan are two nations at war....this guy isn't fighting solders hes going house to house pillaging the defenseless while claiming moral superiority. Remeber 99% of the Varyag crew have nothing to do with the issues with Kronan and Normandie, they just want to skill in space and have no other place to go. Kronan has said they wont take anyone from the Varyag but they will try and make them leave the Varyag??? and go where????

I don't have a problem with what he is doing as far as the looting and the game mechanics go, what I have a problem with is him claiming to somehow be above pirating when it's basically what he's doing.

You cannot hold on to a principle to prop yourself up above others and then discard it when it benefits you. You cannot chastise pirates for shooting unarmed travelers and then do the same without facing the same reprimand.

Please save the personal attacks for page 10....let people that want to address what I've said speak first ;)
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So...he said he was not a pirate but he is? so whats ur solution?
 
It was not me who started any war. I may make comments tongue in cheek that people take way too serious :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: but any comments I made is after Kronan and Normandie made their economic war on Varyag.

john black knight why do you drag the #space_flight channel used by more then 2500 players into your little drama?
It has been noticed you and friends have often visited to spam your channel and trash Varyag.
And that is fine it is free speech and freedom of association channel for players to conduct space business and arrange space travel. If players do not like your libel, slander and your criminal extortion attempts they are free to put you on their personal ignore list.
 
It was not me who started any war. I may make comments tongue in cheek that people take way too serious :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: but any comments I made is after Kronan and Normandie made their economic war on Varyag.

john black knight why do you drag the #space_flight channel used by more then 2500 players into your little drama?
It has been noticed you and friends have often visited to spam your channel and trash Varyag.
And that is fine it is free speech and freedom of association channel for players to conduct space business and arrange space travel. If players do not like your libel, slander and your criminal extortion attempts they are free to put you on their personal ignore list.


rowan you make some noise about peace. got great intel that you to are into criminal activity of attempting to extort money from Varyag. you and john black knight are acting same. i dont make peace terms with criminals.
 
krogfan said:
omfg arent you all tired of those threads soon.......


If you shoot and loot peoples thats what you actually do, the morals are the same no matter what the underlying reason is.


Nobodys a Saint as long as you do more then just protecting your flights, now get on with it and get stronger and shoot eachother some more and chat some less!
Click to expand...

Sadly that isnt true for space, when you have players traveling onboard of ships whose owners are either alt accounts of pirates or close friends with them. Players join ships to move their loot safe, but they will never know if they got 'tricked' by a pirate if those who are active in space wouldnt care to point out the flaws of integrity and the conflicts of interest when such cooperations are discovered.
Especially since this all has happened before and been done by the same players who are involved in orchestrating the recent pirate activities.

If pirate would just do their job in attacking others for loot, all of this wouldnt be necessary, but they have been trying to tax transport services as far back as 2011 and when they were not successfull with this they continued their strategie of heating up conflicts between transport services to get more passengers to fly with those services 'preferred' by pirates (the reasons can be low si, easy to kill or that the owner shares income, etc. - many stories/rumors have been created over time and quite some of them by pirates themselfs).

Those of us who have worked for many years with the prime goal of keeping our passengers safe, go further then just looking at the present, we look at past and possible futures and what it could mean to not intervene when pirates affiliate themselfs with a mothership - the havoc, distrust and danger to all transport services which it can create and as many of you see already does even though the influence is still weak.
 
Yoshii Lem said:
It was not me who started any war. I may make comments tongue in cheek that people take way too serious :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: but any comments I made is after Kronan and Normandie made their economic war on Varyag.

john black knight why do you drag the #space_flight channel used by more then 2500 players into your little drama?
It has been noticed you and friends have often visited to spam your channel and trash Varyag.
And that is fine it is free speech and freedom of association channel for players to conduct space business and arrange space travel. If players do not like your libel, slander and your criminal extortion attempts they are free to put you on their personal ignore list.


rowan you make some noise about peace. got great intel that you to are into criminal activity of attempting to extort money from Varyag. you and john black knight are acting same. i dont make peace terms with criminals.
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dont you have peace terms with NVE who are criminals, even stated by themselves?
 
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