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The most expensive loot and the biggest loot detached from the game

Meg

Meg

Prowler
Joined
Dec 4, 2005
Posts
1,233
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Sweden
Society
GloryHound Irregulars, ex Dirty Dozen, ex...ehhh beta
Avatar Name
Megan Meg Arlington
The most sellable or at least the most expensive loot is from strongboxes and the most frequent big hits of loot in the game is from crafting explosive projectiles.

Hunting requires you to step out into the world and the same goes for mining, makes the place feel populated.
Crafting no longer requires you to interact with anyone or spin the wheels of the player economy by shopping mats or be anywhere in the game except walk between storage, tt and craft facility.

It's not like the days of yore when you'd see a soc killing and looting big on spiders for hours and you thought Those are some badass gamers!. There is nothing badass about opening 500 strongboxes, talk about the most tedious twitch tv ever! Yet here's where the most expensive loot originates.

It's as if the game expands and spreads and opens new places and has frequent updates...all the while it's in maintenance mode, dropping all pretenses that it's about player interaction.

I guess it makes me a bit sad.
 
Ok...but if you spend money on strongboxes just for the rings your gonna be in huuuge debt lol.


The problem is these explosive projectiles. It has turned into this huge slot machine that everyone is doing and it's really fucking the whole EU population over.
 
AFAIK the highest current ring from strongboxes (not saved up easter or xmas ones) is a Perf Ares, which is around 15k (give or take).

L4, Spirit MK1, 2x Adj ML35 (both made from purely hunting loot) have been found in the last 30 or so days. Plus plenty of mid-level loot (optac X2, EP41, etc).

So there's plenty of reason to still hunt.

Secondly, why are people still moaning about explosives? They're not part of the game. They are a nice money spinner for MA, where idiots gamble for longterm TT-loss. That's fine - just forget about them. They have absolutely zero bearing on the rest of the game and its economy, from both a MU and TT perspective.
 
What Ajo said already :)

Explo is not a problem for EU, beside that, if you want to see different than Explo crafting HoFs, buy materials for several k clicks on Amps, Sights or whatever costs 20+ PED / click, and you will see other crafting HoFs.

You complain about something, you easy can change yourself, if you have as big bankroll as the Explo VI gamblers have.
 
I'm think there are some societies that do some uber stuff together, they just don't tell anyone, so you don't know about it unless they do something that provides a global notification. I assume they don't even like that and would prefer to not even let anyone else know what they are doing. Super secret agent high value stuff, the other game in the game, not for general population to know anything about, nothing to see here, move along.
 
Aio said:
AFAIK the highest current ring from strongboxes (not saved up easter or xmas ones) is a Perf Ares, which is around 15k (give or take).

L4, Spirit MK1, 2x Adj ML35 (both made from purely hunting loot) have been found in the last 30 or so days. Plus plenty of mid-level loot (optac X2, EP41, etc).

So there's plenty of reason to still hunt.

Secondly, why are people still moaning about explosives? They're not part of the game. They are a nice money spinner for MA, where idiots gamble for longterm TT-loss. That's fine - just forget about them. They have absolutely zero bearing on the rest of the game and its economy, from both a MU and TT perspective.
Click to expand...

I see where you're coming from and that's just my beef with TT mats: no interaction needed. No bearing on the rest of the game other than having less people buy mats from hunters and miners. Why would they, except when they actually need a manufactured item such as a pair of boots or an L amp. The countless hours that went into crafting filters and other items, all that craft tiering skilling grind must to some extent have been replaced by tt mats. Last I had a longer return here, after the TT mats, no loot I got was above MU 101-103% unless the TT value was extremely low.
The only reason I can think of to justify that change is if hunting and mining population was too low to generate mats enough for crafting.

Removing a player economy might not affect you but I miss the sense of progress in watching a little bit of extra gain rather than TTing all loot.

Moaning indeed.

I think the best buff rings sell at way more than 15k, no? And they are solely attainable from lotto boxes. You can feel it's OK but it does impact player economy. You can't loot an item that cost as much from just playing the game.

What the strongboxes do right is it lets every unskilled gamer have the same tiny chance to get a big sellable - but again it's entirely detached from the game. Noone needs to see you, you never needed to hunt or mine or craft. No interaction, less sense of a community.

As a friend said last I was on and said hallo, he sent me a message saying sorry he wasn't around to say hi, he was afk clicking explosives.
 
op i get u, + all the nice fat noob hofs + cnd un/low amped aths
those were some real motivators to put some spare moneys in here
grab few beverages an have fun whit friends.

10k-20k ped loots were a months salary in low end eu countries
these days maybe prot an some others drop that 3-5k but at what cost
sure there is kerbies, armax, traske etc. that drops the 3-6k
but the frequency is toned down alot. when comparing to drone argo days

it has gone so serious, too many resellers / business mens/womens after cld
/ modified/adjusted/imropewed loots "uppgrade" some1 pays them, how much
thats up to average joes to decide. can stop feeding cld income making new ava
on another planet, bit drastic but this is pvp in economics some might
go bankrupt MA wont, if it doesnt want to.

some positive side notes tough there is still nice chances here to have fun atleast
ministry soc looks wery nice how they advertise they team hunt (usually share items)
helps whit average returns. + can tag those dasps and mod fapper isnt in group too expensive
a soc that truly cant team hunt an share aint a soc worth being in for an mmo like this.

+arkadia seems to have gotten some nice attention that modified viceroy
is in high demand (crit% / evade buff) and accessible quite easily,
nanites sells for 200p+ an seems to drop from all ug mobs (maybe not dromia)
treasure mining drops bismuth thats over 400% quite much have been "given" to arkadia lately

that 5dollars an starkillers event is nice + gold rush every month

wonder why neverdie havent sold anything nice in the past years.. (arkadian equus auction going on)

bring them rocktropia deeds :D
 
Meg said:
I see where you're coming from and that's just my beef with TT mats: no interaction needed. No bearing on the rest of the game other than having less people buy mats from hunters and miners. Why would they, except when they actually need a manufactured item such as a pair of boots or an L amp. The countless hours that went into crafting filters and other items, all that craft tiering skilling grind must to some extent have been replaced by tt mats. Last I had a longer return here, after the TT mats, no loot I got was above MU 101-103% unless the TT value was extremely low.
The only reason I can think of to justify that change is if hunting and mining population was too low to generate mats enough for crafting.

Removing a player economy might not affect you but I miss the sense of progress in watching a little bit of extra gain rather than TTing all loot.
Click to expand...

But all this was fake economy. Gamblers buying mats to click Alekz, Beret, Amp BPs. They never needed the items, they were just TTd (maybe sold at 105% until they ran out of auc slots).

Ironically now that people complain that crafting got a TT input => Output; identical to all other professions, that people complain.

Meg said:
Moaning indeed.

I think the best buff rings sell at way more than 15k, no? And they are solely attainable from lotto boxes. You can feel it's OK but it does impact player economy. You can't loot an item that cost as much from just playing the game.

What the strongboxes do right is it lets every unskilled gamer have the same tiny chance to get a big sellable - but again it's entirely detached from the game. Noone needs to see you, you never needed to hunt or mine or craft. No interaction, less sense of a community.

As a friend said last I was on and said hallo, he sent me a message saying sorry he wasn't around to say hi, he was afk clicking explosives.
Click to expand...

So whats the difference? I can definitely loot an item which costs as much as a ring. I personally looted a full TT ESI this year (sold for 11500 ped). Star looted a mod hedoc. Perf Tegretov in migration? Lots of other examples.

What is your issue with strongboxes? They follow the same EU pattern as everything else - 90% return for the slim chance of a high value loot- that high value being set exactly by the drop rate & cost (both of which controlled by MA).

And the fact your friend was AFK crafting explo - well shit. Lets roll back 10 years so he could be afk crafting filters, and all would be good in the EU world?
 
20 somethings a decade ago are now 30 something. .. as eu ages tastes change.
 
Aio said:
But all this was fake economy. Gamblers buying mats to click Alekz, Beret, Amp BPs. They never needed the items, they were just TTd (maybe sold at 105% until they ran out of auc slots).

Ironically now that people complain that crafting got a TT input => Output; identical to all other professions, that people complain.



So whats the difference? I can definitely loot an item which costs as much as a ring. I personally looted a full TT ESI this year (sold for 11500 ped). Star looted a mod hedoc. Perf Tegretov in migration? Lots of other examples.

What is your issue with strongboxes? They follow the same EU pattern as everything else - 90% return for the slim chance of a high value loot- that high value being set exactly by the drop rate & cost (both of which controlled by MA).

And the fact your friend was AFK crafting explo - well shit. Lets roll back 10 years so he could be afk crafting filters, and all would be good in the EU world?
Click to expand...

Yes because at least when he afk's filters he'd be contributing to the economy. Instead of buying from TT and selling to TT...
 
Aio said:
But all this was fake economy. Gamblers buying mats to click Alekz, Beret, Amp BPs. They never needed the items, they were just TTd (maybe sold at 105% until they ran out of auc slots).

Ironically now that people complain that crafting got a TT input => Output; identical to all other professions, that people complain.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but what is it that you are debating? Are you siding with the idea that EU should stop as a RCE and become a subscription based game? You do understand you are debating the basis of what this game was built on right?
 
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OZtwo said:
I'm sorry but what is it that you are debating? Are you siding with the idea that EU should stop as a RCE and become a subscription based game? You do understand you are debating the basis of what this game was built on right?
Click to expand...

Well that's more than putting words in my mouth...

Hunters buy ammo from TT, and (have the option to) sell to the TT.

Miners buy probes from TT, and (have the option to) sell to the TT.

Crafters have only had this option when EP BPs were introduced. If anything, explosives fixed the economy for crafters. Yes hunters/miners also have ancillary costs (equipment decay, enhancers) but for example, I use a unL gun, armour, fap, and at the moment do not use enhancers - so all my ancillary costs go to MA (repair terminal).

I do have an idea / ideas of adding ancillary costs to crafting; but it's not the right time nor place to discuss it.

So simply, there is nothing wrong with explosives. All it did, if anything, was expose the softness of crafting and the fact that 90% of crafting is done with no use whatsoever - this hasn't changed, it's just shifted from attachments to explosives. If you think the fake-markup generated by attachment crafters resembled anything like "an economy", you're mad.

I post this in most threads, but here it is again: if people want to "fix" the economy (i.e. cause inflation), you should stop complaining about explosives and start pushing for new uses to crafting which use both mining & hunting loot, creating a product which is a) consumable and b) demanded by the end users - one example would be buffs. This generates both input and output MU, therefore inflation (you can't have it without both I&O for all professions).
 
Meg said:
Hunting requires you to step out into the world and the same goes for mining, makes the place feel populated.
Crafting no longer requires you to interact with anyone or spin the wheels of the player economy by shopping mats or be anywhere in the game except walk between storage, tt and craft facility.

.
Click to expand...

1. Hunting small feffoids was same as afk crafting for me (no talking, no thinking, just clicking)
2. Mining on FOMA was same as afk crafting for me (no talking, no thinking, just clicking)
3. Crafting before EXP bps was same as afk crafting for me (no talking, no thinking, just clicking)

You can play the game as you want, no one forces you to just click click click click 24/7..

1. Hunting - events, loot cycles + many more factors - DO some thinking before clicking

2. Mining - big markup ores (pyrite etc) + taxes on land areas - DO some thinking before clicking

3. Crafting - Nice markup blueprint drops, nice markup items (yes there are still items that have cheap L bps, but can be sold for profit), crafting only limited boosted blueprints - DO some thinking before clicking.
 
Aio said:
So simply, there is nothing wrong with explosives. All it did, if anything, was expose the softness of crafting and the fact that 90% of crafting is done with no use whatsoever - this hasn't changed, it's just shifted from attachments to explosives. If you think the fake-markup generated by attachment crafters resembled anything like "an economy", you're mad.
Click to expand...

Well, it was always a known fact. But if you want to bring out the truth of why MA did this, it was due to the player base getting so low that the crafters were running of stuff to buy and were complaining to MA about it. So to fix this MA added the EPs.

The funny fact as well, is that MA would make a hell of a lot more money if they switched the game to a true Casino - which it looks like they are. We just need to switch with them and hope that this new system can work out.
 
OZtwo said:
Well, it was always a known fact. But if you want to bring out the truth of why MA did this, it was due to the player base getting so low that the crafters were running of stuff to buy and were complaining to MA about it. So to fix this MA added the EPs.

The funny fact as well, is that MA would make a hell of a lot more money if they switched the game to a true Casino - which it looks like they are. We just need to switch with them and hope that this new system can work out.
Click to expand...

What...?!?

You really are just making things up.
 
Aio said:
What...?!?

You really are just making things up.
Click to expand...

Yes you are right I guess. Just months before the EPs were release top crafting in my soc were always complaining that they couldn't find anything. Asking if other soc mates had the mats needed. But yes, all in my head I guess.
 
OZtwo said:
Yes you are right I guess. Just months before the EPs were release top crafting in my soc were always complaining that they couldn't find anything. Asking if other soc mates had the mats needed. But yes, all in my head I guess.
Click to expand...

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're talking about TAU, Fluid Mem, etc. which were removed from the game as the items they manufactured were superseded by newer, more eco counterparts.
 
Through out the years I have kept all my logs and did a little research into the crafting history. Below shows how Explosive Projectiles has effected the overall crafting profession.

attachment.php
 
OZtwo said:
Through out the years I have kept all my logs and did a little research into the crafting history. Below shows how Explosive Projectiles has effected the overall crafting profession.

attachment.php
Click to expand...

And? So if you summarize explo and other items you will see that the amount of globals are significant higher than before explo was introduced. This mean thats people are crafting a lot more than before, they cycle a lot more and mainly because they dont pay MU on minerals required to craft particular item. MA is earning a lot miners not anymore.
 
OZtwo said:
Well, it was always a known fact. But if you want to bring out the truth of why MA did this, it was due to the player base getting so low that the crafters were running of stuff to buy and were complaining to MA about it. So to fix this MA added the EPs.

The funny fact as well, is that MA would make a hell of a lot more money if they switched the game to a true Casino - which it looks like they are. We just need to switch with them and hope that this new system can work out.
Click to expand...

LOL

I never have seen a single day when there was not enough material available at auction to do a 10k+ clicks on several BPs.

It could happen, that you didn´t get material for your favorite BP, but then there was still enough for the No2 in your book.

Another thing was, are you willing to pay the MU the auction sellers wanted, to skill vs TT.

Its a very moneysink to buy materials for average 140%, and only buyer of your product will be the TT.

MA introduced Explo because many crafters wanted a BP that could be crafted from TT only for the fairness, as miners and hunters could play from TT/repair only, so why should crafters be forced to pay MU just to skill vs TT.

Explo solved exactly that problem of unfairness of the system, and I am very happy MA did it for the crafters.

Sidenote:
I am not Explo crafter!
 
Aio said:
What...?!?

You really are just making things up.
Click to expand...

It really happened.. Even low level crafters ran out of materials to craft Jester d1 (some material was 110% then after 20k clicks the markup of this material went up to 135% already).. It was even worse with Cold Ir crafting (Azzurdite). Azzurdite was pretty much tt junk, but as soon as you did some serious crafting you ran out of materials and had to stop.
 
whiteknut said:
It really happened.. Even low level crafters ran out of materials to craft Jester d1 (some material was 110% then after 20k clicks the markup of this material went up to 135% already).. It was even worse with Cold Ir crafting (Azzurdite). Azzurdite was pretty much tt junk, but as soon as you did some serious crafting you ran out of materials and had to stop.
Click to expand...

As said, it happend on the favorite BPs, but there always was the option to click Simple I Conductors/Springs/Ruds, or just something that used only Oil/Lyst, never seen a day, this materials was short in auction!
 
OZtwo said:
Well, it was always a known fact. But if you want to bring out the truth of why MA did this, it was due to the player base getting so low that the crafters were running of stuff to buy and were complaining to MA about it. So to fix this MA added the EPs.

The funny fact as well, is that MA would make a hell of a lot more money if they switched the game to a true Casino - which it looks like they are. We just need to switch with them and hope that this new system can work out.
Click to expand...

MA introduced Explosives bps, because people wanted explosives from TT and also reduce the cost of L crafted items so residue was more easy to get your hands on. Their idea is to make the game cheaper to play for all and not some. It is not to become a casino, but it harder to play for free and profit.
 
whiteknut said:
It really happened.. Even low level crafters ran out of materials to craft Jester d1 (some material was 110% then after 20k clicks the markup of this material went up to 135% already).. It was even worse with Cold Ir crafting (Azzurdite). Azzurdite was pretty much tt junk, but as soon as you did some serious crafting you ran out of materials and had to stop.
Click to expand...

That's not running out of materials, that's creating the fake-markup (demand) I was talking about.

As GoNi says - there was always enough material to craft, but the input markup vs. output markup (100%) meant not only did you lose to MA for skilling, you lost to other players.

OZtwo said:
Through out the years I have kept all my logs and did a little research into the crafting history. Below shows how Explosive Projectiles has effected the overall crafting profession.

attachment.php
Click to expand...

You've posted a graph which supports my argument 100%.

There was steady crafting globals between 7,500 & 15,000 pre-explosives (doesn't seem like any material shortage here). When explosives were introduced, the crafting items globals went to around 2,500-3,000 - more than I expected to be honest - but the overall average moved >20,000.

MA makes more money, game is cheaper for the masses.
 
Explosives and lootboxes, it's incentive to not interact with others. I really don't care how you wish to justify it. If strongboxes were crafted, sure, bring it on! If crafting them required some sort of in-game interaction, go ahead! As is, it's the most tedious game twitches, some sad buggers talking and sweating, opening box after box while spouting "It's not a casino! It's a space MMORPG!".

TT material is not the same as ammo.
Ammo would be the same if you paid at TT terminal to have a game bot report a kill for you and instantly bringing back loot or report no loot.
 
Meg said:
Explosives and lootboxes, it's incentive to not interact with others. I really don't care how you wish to justify it. If strongboxes were crafted, sure, bring it on! If crafting them required some sort of in-game interaction, go ahead! As is, it's the most tedious game twitches, some sad buggers talking and sweating, opening box after box while spouting "It's not a casino! It's a space MMORPG!".

TT material is not the same as ammo.
Ammo would be the same if you paid at TT terminal to have a game bot report a kill for you and instantly bringing back loot or report no loot.
Click to expand...

Can you please outline the exact interaction pre-explosives and strongboxes which you are missing?

AFAIK auction orders for materials isn't social interaction, and you are aware that boxes drop between 80-90% value in UA, which requires mining/hunting to return the value of it?
 
Aio said:
You've posted a graph which supports my argument 100%.

There was steady crafting globals between 7,500 & 15,000 pre-explosives (doesn't seem like any material shortage here). When explosives were introduced, the crafting items globals went to around 2,500-3,000 - more than I expected to be honest - but the overall average moved >20,000.

MA makes more money, game is cheaper for the masses.
Click to expand...

Yes EP are here to stay. What is odd about this graph is you can see when I go to Calypso. Yes most of all this was when I was here on Arkadia.

But you need to remember that basis of this game was to supply the crafters with supplies. Yes it was very unfair to them, but well it was the idea of the game.

Also EPs were given to crafters due to the limited supply and demand issues. With that removed you can see how crafting shot up and most likely will grow while other crafting most likely will become history with MA replacing more and more of the items in loot as limited item drops.
 
OZtwo said:
Yes EP are here to stay. What is odd about this graph is you can see when I go to Calypso. Yes most of all this was when I was here on Arkadia.

But you need to remember that basis of this game was to supply the crafters with supplies. Yes it was very unfair to them, but well it was the idea of the game.

Also EPs were given to crafters due to the limited supply and demand issues. With that removed you can see how crafting shot up and most likely will grow while other crafting most likely will become history with MA replacing more and more of the items in loot as limited item drops.
Click to expand...

I'm really starting to struggle now.

Crafting didn't even exist when Project Entropia first started; then the first implementation of the crafting system was completely different to the second implementation (and more familiar implementation) which again, differs in the streamlining to the current implementation.

Apart from a very few select items, items looted by hunting have always been better than their crafted counterparts.

Finally, you're getting confused with your supply and demand. It's actually a case of inelastic demand.

If my budget is set to 10,000 ped per crafting run, then with materials at 135% (old system), I can craft 7,400 ped TT. With explosives, I can craft 10,000 ped TT. The differences in crafting globals is massively hinged on budget rather than demand.

A more appropriate way to analyse your graph would be to take the explo / pre-explo average, which would give you a close figure to the average mineral markup paid by crafters...
 
Aio said:
I'm really starting to struggle now.

Crafting didn't even exist when Project Entropia first started; then the first implementation of the crafting system was completely different to the second implementation (and more familiar implementation) which again, differs in the streamlining to the current implementation.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, a lot has been added since the game was first released since MA is very slow at doing their job due to the man power behind the project but most of all we see today was on the planning list.

But hell if you want to bring PE up again, then remember it was released as a full casino yet had to be scaled back a lot to be allowed to stay as it is today. To fix this hole the SGA give them, MA then worked out a new crafting plan that we see today with the SGA fully supporting it due to the simply fact that this game is based on skills which we can trade between each other.

FYI: Straight from the SGA itself.
 
OZtwo said:
Well yeah, a lot has been added since the game was first released since MA is very slow at doing their job due to the man power behind the project but most of all we see today was on the planning list.

But hell if you want to bring PE up again, then remember it was released as a full casino yet had to be scaled back a lot to be allowed to stay as it is today. To fix this hole the SGA give them, MA then worked out a new crafting plan that we see today with the SGA fully supporting it due to the simply fact that this game is based on skills which we can trade between each other.

FYI: Straight from the SGA itself.
Click to expand...

What?

Do you literally just make up stuff for fun or? :laugh:
 
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