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Planet Calypso Content Release 2017.1

Me Really Never said:
...or MA forced him to change it due to caly losing hunters.
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This ... why doesn't MA just ban all the other planets instead of crying when they lose player loyalty to them. Why do they even sell other planets if only to limit player functionality and experience and try to compete with them.

Like Gold Rush on Arkadia...not that I'm even in it. But why is it so klunked. Nubees can't even get in and not for lack of trying. The mission was so screwed up that many people couldn't get in at all. How is that even close to acceptable to the Ark owners?
 
Aloisius said:
This ... why doesn't MA just ban all the other planets instead of crying when they lose player loyalty to them. Why do they even sell other planets if only to limit player functionality and experience and try to compete with them.

Like Gold Rush on Arkadia...not that I'm even in it. But why is it so klunked. Nubees can't even get in and not for lack of trying. The mission was so screwed up that many people couldn't get in at all. How is that even close to acceptable to the Ark owners?
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You only needed to choose the gold rush and then the category. People forget the last part. It's not intuitive but it's not complicated either.
 
bigdaddy trim said:
Was that meant to be a insult? How mature of you Aio that you had to resort to name calling. I bet neither of you even came to ROCK to hunt them I am sure you are well aware just because you globel don't mean your in profit. As far as I know ESI did not drop, it was mainly genetic loot with low MU. Of course you know everything about this game and how things work so you must be right.
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I dont think any one would really care if the crabs existed if 1) they were not est fodder and 2) dropped something specific for loot and not the variety generic wools and oils that will mean these wools and oils are forever near TT. Also #2 applies to gold rush as well.

@me really never, Caly will lose hunters just because of its shit loot. If it weren't for them having the advantage of item upgrades, I really don't know if many would be left there.
 
Aio said:
One is an RT fanboy and the other has 25% of his globals on the crabs. You couldn't get more biased players :laugh:

They were broken (mainly due to the item spam of ESI / OA) and needed to be fixed. ND does this shit all the time, it's a wonder MA keep him on.
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spam of ESI? are you fucking kidding me? i got 2 tiny ESI in roughly 150k peds cycled, so in around 7000 kills. i dont see any kind of spam there... i get more ESIs from ambus or allos...
 
Me Really Never said:
is there a reason why the RT crabs now have 650 hp instead of 6500? is it a bug now or was it a bug before?
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I never actually hunted the RT crabs so correct me if im wrong here but i assume they were high hp and relatively low dmg, right? Entropia used to have a selection of these mobs a few years ago (Old version Leviathan comes to mind) but pretty much all of them were heavily rebalanced to have more damage compared to their hp around 2012-2013.

I cant remember if MA put out a statement or not on why but the conversations in the community at the time was that bulletspongey mobs which were essentially EP crafting for hunters were all but removed to favour less "gambly" mobs. Basically to reduce new players from coming in and losing all they had on a mob they could kill only because of the relatively low dmg of the mob.

My assumption would be that MA still follows that line of thinking they had back then and the crab mob, regardless if it was a mistake on implementation day or discussions afterwards, would be that it didn't fit the bill.

Cheers
Zweshi
 
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melander said:
I never actually hunted the RT crabs so correct me if im wrong here but i assume they were high hp and relatively low dmg, right? Entropia used to have a selection of these mobs a few years ago (Old version Leviathan comes to mind) but pretty much all of them were heavily rebalanced to have more damage compared to their hp around 2012-2013.

I cant remember if MA put out a statement or not on why but the conversations in the community at the time was that bulletspongey mobs which were essentially EP crafting for hunters were all but removed to favour less "gambly" mobs. Basically to reduce new players from coming in and losing all they had on a mob they could kill only because of the relatively low dmg of the mob.

My assumption would be that MA still follows that line of thinking they had back then and the crab mob, regardless if it was a mistake on implementation day or discussions afterwards, would be that it did fit the bill.

Cheers
Zweshi
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if they think like that they would have never implemented ep4 bp. because it is essentially exactly the same. so everything that speaks against low dmg high hp mobs also is an argument against ep4. if they remove one they need to remove the other too.
and they would also need to remove lvl 13 amps. because they do the same.
 
Me Really Never said:
if they think like that they would have never implemented ep4 bp. because it is essentially exactly the same. so everything that speaks against low dmg high hp mobs also is an argument against ep4. if they remove one they need to remove the other too.
and they would also need to remove lvl 13 amps. because they do the same.
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I dont think you can equate the different professions like that though, using lvl13 amps requires you to be of a certain mining level, same with crafting them or EP4. A high HP mob with low dmg you can just grab a Karma killer or any other old school weapon and a gremlin armor set at lvl1 and go hunt, its much more accessible in hunting.

But regardless of how we want to rationalize it here its obvious that mobs with high hp and low dmg were at one point "discontinued" for one reason or another. Given that i dont think its a stretch to suggest that the first mob being introduced in 4+ years with those characteristics would be changed to adhere to the same policy as the rest of the universes mob pool, regardless if its seen as a good or bad change.
 
Me Really Never said:
is there a reason why the RT crabs now have 650 hp instead of 6500? is it a bug now or was it a bug before?
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Very unfortunate. RT was finally getting an influx of traffic and activity, and I feel the crabs were in large responsible for this.

But I agree with what others are saying. High HP low regen low dmg mobs seem like an anomaly. I guess I just wasn't as surprised as I should have been, since it's Neverdie after all :laugh:

But from a purely economic perspective, it's easy to see how the crabs are unbalanced. Why would anyone ever hunt a proteron-sort of mob when you can stand still and auto shoot these crabs for essentially the same loot (TT trash + small chance at ESIs)?

Also it's kind of strange that a pesky little crab had over twice the HP of a proteron young, when you consider the size difference :laugh:
 
ZPF said:
Very unfortunate. RT was finally getting an influx of traffic and activity, and I feel the crabs were in large responsible for this.

But I agree with what others are saying. High HP low regen low dmg mobs seem like an anomaly. I guess I just wasn't as surprised as I should have been, since it's Neverdie after all :laugh:
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I don't blame him for trying but I did wonder how he got it past the gatekeepers in the first place. Usually everything a PP releases must pass vetting and gets denied by MA if it's "too good".
 
bigdaddy trim said:
Was that meant to be a insult? How mature of you Aio that you had to resort to name calling. I bet neither of you even came to ROCK to hunt them I am sure you are well aware just because you globel don't mean your in profit. As far as I know ESI did not drop, it was mainly genetic loot with low MU. Of course you know everything about this game and how things work so you must be right.
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AFAIK being a fanboy isn't an insult, I'm just pointing out your bias in this situation.

Absolutely did not come to hunt them, and yes I'm well aware that globalling doesn't mean profit. Dropping MU items on them (could) profit, but in the very least makes it certain that those items will dump their markup, as everyone and their dog can hunt a mob which hits 1.0 through pixie.

Me Really Never said:
spam of ESI? are you fucking kidding me? i got 2 tiny ESI in roughly 150k peds cycled, so in around 7000 kills. i dont see any kind of spam there... i get more ESIs from ambus or allos...
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Everyone knows high HP = higher chance of ESI. The fact that you pay literally zero defense costs too = bad.

MU should pay for ancillary costs (fap, armour, enhancers, buffs) which are required for hunting hard hitting, big mobs. Dropping ESI on this noob fodder is a joke.
 
Aio said:
AFAIK being a fanboy isn't an insult, I'm just pointing out your bias in this situation.

Absolutely did not come to hunt them, and yes I'm well aware that globalling doesn't mean profit. Dropping MU items on them (could) profit, but in the very least makes it certain that those items will dump their markup, as everyone and their dog can hunt a mob which hits 1.0 through pixie.



Everyone knows high HP = higher chance of ESI. The fact that you pay literally zero defense costs too = bad.

MU should pay for ancillary costs (fap, armour, enhancers, buffs) which are required for hunting hard hitting, big mobs. Dropping ESI on this noob fodder is a joke.
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to be fair i think you have no idea what you are talking about. they did not drop more or less ESIs than any other mob. ive gotten nearly the same amoutn of ESIs on nearly the same amount of kills on 500 hp cultists.
ive people seen getting ESIs on 150 hp mobs too.
so explain to me why 2 tins ESIs on 150k peds cycled is too much?
on ambus on the same amount of peds cycled i would get 3 to 5 ESIs and they have a lot less hp.
 
melander said:
I dont think you can equate the different professions like that though, using lvl13 amps requires you to be of a certain mining level, same with crafting them or EP4. A high HP mob with low dmg you can just grab a Karma killer or any other old school weapon and a gremlin armor set at lvl1 and go hunt, its much more accessible in hunting.

But regardless of how we want to rationalize it here its obvious that mobs with high hp and low dmg were at one point "discontinued" for one reason or another. Given that i dont think its a stretch to suggest that the first mob being introduced in 4+ years with those characteristics would be changed to adhere to the same policy as the rest of the universes mob pool, regardless if its seen as a good or bad change.
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of course a noob can grab a highly uneco weapon and hunt them for a lot of lose. but you can also just buy the ep4 bp without skills and click it with a 15% success chance. thats about the same. so i dont see any difference there. and yes, for lvl 13 amps you need to be lvl 20 in the regarding profession. thats not really a high requirement and you could just buy skills and do that without investing too much as well.
 
Me Really Never said:
to be fair i think you have no idea what you are talking about. they did not drop more or less ESIs than any other mob. ive gotten nearly the same amoutn of ESIs on nearly the same amount of kills on 500 hp cultists.
ive people seen getting ESIs on 150 hp mobs too.
so explain to me why 2 tins ESIs on 150k peds cycled is too much?
on ambus on the same amount of peds cycled i would get 3 to 5 ESIs and they have a lot less hp.
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Okidoki.

We'll stick with the much more logical and sensible idea that MA intentionally sabotage PPs to keep players on Caly :rolleyes:
 
Aio said:
Okidoki.

We'll stick with the much more logical and sensible idea that MA intentionally sabotage PPs to keep players on Caly :rolleyes:
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I could see it.

Why else would we still not have planet-specific market information?!

They're trying to sabotage the development of independent functioning economies on other planets!

:wise:
 
Aio said:
Okidoki.

We'll stick with the much more logical and sensible idea that MA intentionally sabotage PPs to keep players on Caly :rolleyes:
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Yep im done too, clearly there is no rational argument or precedent dating back half a decade to explain this HP update, must be a MA conspiracy instead! ;)
 
melander said:
Yep im done too, clearly there is no rational argument or precedent dating back half a decade to explain this HP update, must be a MA conspiracy instead! ;)
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you dont get it? im not arguing about them changing it. im asking WHY (!!!!!!!!) they woudl change it. i hope it is clear enough now or should i say it again? WHY DO THEY CHANGE IT? THERE IS NO LOGICAL REASON FOR IT. why allow EP4 and forbid the equivalent on hunting?
clear enough now?
 
Me Really Never said:
you dont get it? im not arguing about them changing it. im asking WHY (!!!!!!!!) they woudl change it. i hope it is clear enough now or should i say it again? WHY DO THEY CHANGE IT? THERE IS NO LOGICAL REASON FOR IT. why allow EP4 and forbid the equivalent on hunting?
clear enough now?
Click to expand...

Ok lets try again then, MA has never balanced the different professions in terms of spending against each other, They just havent gone that route, to suggest that they should change that now is illogical not the other way around. Mining has always had its own twist on cost same with crafting.

The specific reason for this one instance is again obvious, they simply removed these kinds of mobs from the game half a decade ago because they for what ever reason found that this kind of mob was antithetical to what the hunting experience should be like in Entropia.
That is a design decision they made, you may not agree with that but its certainly not illogical to balance professions independently of each other.

To use EP4 as a argument why we should have these kinds of mobs is, again, irrelevant not just because crafting is balanced in a completely different way in regards to cost but also because its balanced independently from hunting. This is evident if you look up cost of the 100+ most expensive blueprints in the game and what level they require VS the same levels for hunting and the cost of that level.

This is not a new thing that just popped out from nowhere its been part of the games DNA for a very long time, almost half of its lifespan at this point.
 
melander said:
Ok lets try again then, MA has never balanced the different professions in terms of spending against each other, They just havent gone that route, to suggest that they should change that now is illogical not the other way around. Mining has always had its own twist on cost same with crafting.

The specific reason for this one instance is again obvious, they simply removed these kinds of mobs from the game half a decade ago because they for what ever reason found that this kind of mob was antithetical to what the hunting experience should be like in Entropia.
That is a design decision they made, you may not agree with that but its certainly not illogical to balance professions independently of each other.

To use EP4 as a argument why we should have these kinds of mobs is, again, irrelevant not just because crafting is balanced in a completely different way in regards to cost but also because its balanced independently from hunting. This is evident if you look up cost of the 100+ most expensive blueprints in the game and what level they require VS the same levels for hunting and the cost of that level.

This is not a new thing that just popped out from nowhere its been part of the games DNA for a very long time, almost half of its lifespan at this point.
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on the contrary to that point it was my understanding that crafters have been crying a long time that its unfair that hunters can buy ammo in tt and miners can buy probes in tt and thus ep bps were introduced so that crafters have the same as the others, stuff from tt to cycle. so they pretty much did the opposite of what you said.
 
Me Really Never said:
on the contrary to that point it was my understanding that crafters have been crying a long time that its unfair that hunters can buy ammo in tt and miners can buy probes in tt and thus ep bps were introduced so that crafters have the same as the others, stuff from tt to cycle. so they pretty much did the opposite of what you said.
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And what has that to do with cost balancing?
 
Me Really Never said:
they have added 4 different bps for different costs so everyone can cycle tt stuff at their own speed, just like in hunting or mining
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Your just trolling now right? yes, crafting have different levels, always have always will that has nothing to do with level to cost ratio + the other points i made.
 
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ZPF said:
I could see it.

Why else would we still not have planet-specific market information?!

They're trying to sabotage the development of independent functioning economies on other planets!

:wise:
Click to expand...

OR the more logical reason is that it was always this way. You could only make argument if we had it as planet specific and then they consolidated it.

Come on folks, knock it off.
 
Why balancing the crabs, is obvious for me.

There exist a lot of mobs that cost 10-20 PED to kill at each of the planets.

The only differnce that crabs offer, is: artificaly no DMG, no regen
This set Rock into a unfair advantage vs ALL other planets.
Why hunt big mobs at Ark, Toulan, Cyrene, where you need fair skills to do it, when you can do it at RT with artifically no defence skills, at lower costs for FAPing and Armor decay ?

Personally I wouldn´t care that much, but obviously other PP and MA cares, so the crabs have been adjusted.

That is just speculation, it could also be simply a bug, who knows.
Maybe some other reason for the adjustment, only MA or involved PP can know that.

Beside that comparing a 20 PED to kill mob with EP IV is completely fail.

If you want something similar to EP IV in hunting, then you would need a weapon that shoots/decay 10 PED / shot,strike with 30 attacks/min.
At a dpp of 2.5 that would be 5000 dps, at eco 3.0 dpp it would be 6000 dps.
In fact that would mean 2 shots to kill Big Bulk, Eomons or Dasps.
With such weapon, you really could cycle PED as fast as with Explo, at same speed of loot events.
Guess what, it would be even for TT if its the ammo blown at very low weapon decay.

Thats what ND originally wanted with the introduction of crabs, but to have something similar to EP IV in hunting, it does not need new mob, it needs new weapon :D

In mining it would be:
Finder decay + Amp decay + probes = 20 PED / drop
VRX3000 + D Class = 9 PED decay - don´t know how many probes that needs, but comes close.
Do search for ore+enmatter voila - met the Explo IV turnover
Be on ark, search for ore+enmatter+artefacts - well that even beats Explo IV turnover.

So damn stop complaining about Explo IV, it is not any issue for EU.

Only problem that really exist in crafting, that there is artifically no market for crafted Guns/Armors, and that is why crafters prefer clicking Explo vs TT instead paying MU to craft Items vs TT.
If there would be option to sell items for MU in crafting, this items would be crafted.
Actually some crafters still do crafting to sell to players instead selling to TT, but that is a small niche covered by a handful of crafters. Most crafters are forced to gamble vs TT while skilling, so they do it with explo.
 
GoNi said:
Why balancing the crabs, is obvious for me.

There exist a lot of mobs that cost 10-20 PED to kill at each of the planets.

The only differnce that crabs offer, is: artificaly no DMG, no regen
This set Rock into a unfair advantage vs ALL other planets.
Why hunt big mobs at Ark, Toulan, Cyrene, where you need fair skills to do it, when you can do it at RT with artifically no defence skills, at lower costs for FAPing and Armor decay ?

Personally I wouldn´t care that much, but obviously other PP and MA cares, so the crabs have been adjusted.

That is just speculation, it could also be simply a bug, who knows.
Maybe some other reason for the adjustment, only MA or involved PP can know that.

Beside that comparing a 20 PED to kill mob with EP IV is completely fail.

If you want something similar to EP IV in hunting, then you would need a weapon that shoots/decay 10 PED / shot,strike with 30 attacks/min.
At a dpp of 2.5 that would be 5000 dps, at eco 3.0 dpp it would be 6000 dps.
In fact that would mean 2 shots to kill Big Bulk, Eomons or Dasps.
With such weapon, you really could cycle PED as fast as with Explo, at same speed of loot events.
Guess what, it would be even for TT if its the ammo blown at very low weapon decay.

Thats what ND originally wanted with the introduction of crabs, but to have something similar to EP IV in hunting, it does not need new mob, it needs new weapon :D

In mining it would be:
Finder decay + Amp decay + probes = 20 PED / drop
VRX3000 + D Class = 9 PED decay - don´t know how many probes that needs, but comes close.
Do search for ore+enmatter voila - met the Explo IV turnover
Be on ark, search for ore+enmatter+artefacts - well that even beats Explo IV turnover.

So damn stop complaining about Explo IV, it is not any issue for EU.

Only problem that really exist in crafting, that there is artifically no market for crafted Guns/Armors, and that is why crafters prefer clicking Explo vs TT instead paying MU to craft Items vs TT.
If there would be option to sell items for MU in crafting, this items would be crafted.
Actually some crafters still do crafting to sell to players instead selling to TT, but that is a small niche covered by a handful of crafters. Most crafters are forced to gamble vs TT while skilling, so they do it with explo.
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the comparison to EP4 was made because it is about 20 ped per looting event. and not because of turnover. crafting allways had and allways will have the highest turnover speed but each looting event has 20 ped used up and thus the maximum possible loot is calculated. in that part the crabs and ep4 are basically identically, as well as lvl 13 amps in mining, which are also 20 ped per "click".
next thing is: dasps or other huge ass mobs you refer to have significantly higher markup stuff as well as ultra high value UL guns and armors in their loottable. crabs have nothing like that. they have the basic tt loot that any low level mob drops. so where is the unfair advantage of a mob that has 6500 hp vs one that has 650 hp in regards of loot when they both drop the same stuff? the dps is the same and the eco is about the same. only difference is the higher gamble due to less looting events per turnover.
 
atomicstorm said:
OR the more logical reason is that it was always this way. You could only make argument if we had it as planet specific and then they consolidated it.

Come on folks, knock it off.
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Fair enough, but you'd think upon/since the conception of the planet partner system this would have crossed their minds at least once.
 
San said:
I don't blame him for trying but I did wonder how he got it past the gatekeepers in the first place. Usually everything a PP releases must pass vetting and gets denied by MA if it's "too good".
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For me, this is the most interesting question. I suppose the question why they were removed/nerfed Melander already answered--we indeed haven't had any mobs with such HP/Dmg ratio since 2012-2013 when Levi was nerfed.
So, what actually happened? How did it get into the game in the 1st place?

- A mistake, the guy in the MA office misread the HP. "6500 HP on this little harmless crab? Can't be, I must have misread it." :laugh:

- Or maybe they did notice but decided to make things interesting, for a while. A Rock Crab campaign like temporary entertainment.

I'm kinda inclined towards the latter... but who knows ofc
 
Entropedia lists some incorrect stats for Bukin's Spare Rifle
Class: Carbine < shouldn't this be rifle?
Weight: 0.4 kg < This should be 2.4 kg
Attached screenshots.



Here's the adjusted Bukin's just for easy comparison.
 
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Max Hec said:
Entropedia lists some incorrect stats for Bukin's Spare Rifle
Class: Carbine < shouldn't this be rifle?
Weight: 0.4 kg < This should be 2.4 kg
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There is no ingame separation "carbine/rifle". Not sure why they were separated on entropedia, but it looks like slow long range guns were classified as rifles. Lately, I notice, people who do edits not always follow this rule, and in any case Bukin is more a carbine in that system.

The 0.4kg is probably a typo, I fixed it now. You know you could have fixed it too? :) It's a wiki after all.
 
We all know Captain Atreida is at fort syphilis but did you notice Paula at camp phoenix is also Captain Atreida???
Ludvig please let the devs know about this mistake, good thing the mission waypoints work.
 
Svarog said:
There is no ingame separation "carbine/rifle". Not sure why they were separated on entropedia, but it looks like slow long range guns were classified as rifles. Lately, I notice, people who do edits not always follow this rule, and in any case Bukin is more a carbine in that system.

The 0.4kg is probably a typo, I fixed it now. You know you could have fixed it too? :) It's a wiki after all.
Click to expand...

Thanks Svarog. :)
 
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