An idea about how to make Explosive crafting benefit the EU economy

Erastothenes

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Crafting Explosives gives MA direct revenue - Nanocubes comes from the TT.

How about if Explosives where made of, say, 3 different ingredients. 40% Nanocubes, and then 30% of something found mining, 30% of something found hunting.

MA would still have some direct revenue. But also indirect revenue, and importantly this model could revitalize things for us all.

There would be something in hunting and mining loot that A.) needed be common and B.) there would be a market for.
If this made the crafting more expensive, crafting returns could (should) be adjusted to balance it.

More trading/hunting/mining also makes revenue for MA (decay, auction fees).

I see Explosive crafting as it is boring. A ingame game that is a kind of slot machine... there's no need for the amount of Explosive ammo made, so ouput is effectively just PED. And the ingredient is effectively just PED as well.

By adding a mix of looted stuff into the recipe, circulation would result. Never a bad thing in any economy, really...

.
 
Unfortunately people need to keep cycling, and often these kinds of materials end up going the 101% route and get tt'd rather than spend time and ped listing them.

Part of the reason I think we have Exp BP to be honest, the economy in-game is not supporting the loot dropped.

Good idea, just not practical at the current state, economy needs to pick up a lot more to warrant something like that. Look at oils, they too had the premise to add more depth, and more often they get tt'd by hunters in order to game on. If anything a lot of the blueprints that use them are being clicked less.
 
Why not 34% Nanocubes, 33% Crapnel, 33% Lyst?
 
Remove this explosive crafting from the game

(Msg too short)
 
Remove this explosive crafting from the game

(Msg too short)

agreed. The current EP crafting is absolutely useless and adds nothing to the game.
It's just a very cheap and short term way of MA to make money.
 
More ingredients = fewer crafters so uh no... unless u balance it with other professions. .. perhaps all laser or blp guns will start needing equal parts explosives and other ammo to work, or remove ammo from tt and 2 explosives refine to one ua or something.

If they do change the system based on this or some other suggestions, hopefully they only make the change in L versions of the BPs going forward. Far too many things get changed after they are already in the hands of participants.

agreed. The current EP crafting is absolutely useless and adds nothing to the game.
It's just a very cheap and short term way of MA to make money.

It's actually somewhat useful if you focus on grenades as a weapon of choice.. not found much use for em other than tagging or instances, but in solo instances they come in mighty handy.
 
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It's actually somewhat useful if you focus on grenades as a weapon of choice.. not found much use for em other than tagging or instances, but in solo instances they come in mighty handy.

I wasnt refering to the exposive projectiles ammo, I was refering to the EP crafting process.
The EP BP does not add anything to the game.
 
Instead of changing the EP crafting I would prefer to see a new ammo that gives a buff like crit damage 1% and uses materials from hunting and possibly 1 sweat each.

Also there could be mining probes that give a buff for depth or something useful to miners.
 
The EP BP does not add anything to the game.

Actually the low level EP I and EP II adds the ability for low level avatars to skill up crafting with a limited budget.
Although it ends up costing them in the end more than if they saved up and clicked a higher level BP, due to the higher failures they will get.

EP I is like hunting punies or using the tt finder. Low cost to skill. The other professions had this ability so cant see why crafting shouldn't either.

EP III and EP IV i agree they went too far with and does not really need to be around, however it is a good source of income for MA as even with the big hofs, majority are losing. If MA loses too much money then this game goes under and any investments you have made will be worthless, need to keep that in mind.
 
agreed. The current EP crafting is absolutely useless and adds nothing to the game.
It's just a very cheap and short term way of MA to make money.

It is near the same as a slot machine, if you ask me. Buy coins, insert coins, maybe win.
 
The reason why Explo BPs exist is:
Crafters can play with TT input only, same as hunters/miners can do it.

Beside that Explo does not inpact EU economy in a negative way.

And here again:

What it needs to fix economy is useful crafting.

Useful crafting means:

Crafted weapons that are competitive to looted ones, and lower drop rates for weapons from hunting (actually L weapons are raining in hunting, f.e. when I did healing on BB lately in a 3 hours hunt the team I did support looted 10 weapons (actually TT food, as this amount of weapon drops is way above what could be used up in that time by a similar team)

Crafted healing tools that are competitve to looted/upgraded and free (S10) healing tools.

Crafted armors that are competitve to looted ones, noone buy crafted armors that have worse durability than the regularly dropping looted counterparts.

And a lot more

Fix crafting then markup can grow.
Explo does nothing to it, just making residue cheap, what actually would be good for the economy if crafted things would be used.

2 days ago I TTed over 20 crafted armor parts, after those came back from auction unsold at a +1 buyout (Orca, Serum, Sema, Rascal)
Why should I pay markup for materials to make new ones, why should I pay markup for residue to craft it full TT, if it is impossible to recover even 1 PED from the much higher MU I have to pay to craft it ?

And you non crafters without a idea about crafting complaining about Explo, LOL

Shut up, and start crafting !
 
The reason why Explo BPs exist is:
Crafters can play with TT input only, same as hunters/miners can do it.

Beside that Explo does not inpact EU economy in a negative way.

And here again:

What it needs to fix economy is useful crafting.

Useful crafting means:

Crafted weapons that are competitive to looted ones, and lower drop rates for weapons from hunting (actually L weapons are raining in hunting, f.e. when I did healing on BB lately in a 3 hours hunt the team I did support looted 10 weapons (actually TT food, as this amount of weapon drops is way above what could be used up in that time by a similar team)

Crafted healing tools that are competitve to looted/upgraded and free (S10) healing tools.

Crafted armors that are competitve to looted ones, noone buy crafted armors that have worse durability than the regularly dropping looted counterparts.

And a lot more

Fix crafting then markup can grow.
Explo does nothing to it, just making residue cheap, what actually would be good for the economy if crafted things would be used.

2 days ago I TTed over 20 crafted armor parts, after those came back from auction unsold at a +1 buyout (Orca, Serum, Sema, Rascal)
Why should I pay markup for materials to make new ones, why should I pay markup for residue to craft it full TT, if it is impossible to recover even 1 PED from the much higher MU I have to pay to craft it ?

And you non crafters without a idea about crafting complaining about Explo, LOL

Shut up, and start crafting !

+1 rep well said
 
actually its not really the same. only the bp is needed and it gets more valuable as you use it (QR rising). guns dont have that and finders either. yes, tiers, but you pay for those as well and a crafter doesnt. also you dont need to repair it. and please, show me an UL gun with which im able to kill 20 ped per kill creatures fast for the money that an ep4 bp costs. it is not the same and it will never be.
ep 1 and 2 are fine as that translates a little into the early hunting and mining stages but ep3 is already kinda hard at the edge and ep4 is just pure bs.
 
actually its not really the same. only the bp is needed and it gets more valuable as you use it (QR rising). guns dont have that and finders either. yes, tiers, but you pay for those as well and a crafter doesnt. also you dont need to repair it. and please, show me an UL gun with which im able to kill 20 ped per kill creatures fast for the money that an ep4 bp costs. it is not the same and it will never be.
ep 1 and 2 are fine as that translates a little into the early hunting and mining stages but ep3 is already kinda hard at the edge and ep4 is just pure bs.

Only the UL gun is need
Ammo = TT
Decay on gun = TT
Repairs = TT

Only the UL finder is need:
Probes = TT
Repairs = TT

And your other argument about 20 PED / click is also invalid !!!

The 20 PED + / click BPs existed long time befor Explo IV already
High end amps
Several weapon BPs
Sights and Scoops

There is a lot that cost way more than 20 PED / click, cycling PED in crafting was always a lot faster than by hunting/mining, since I started over 10 years ago!


No hunter is forced to buy anything L with MU
No miner is forced to buy anything L with MU

Why should crafter be forced to buy stackables with MU ?

I know why you want it.
From your point of view and many others aswell, the crafters should pay for the hunters/miners freeplay.

Why ???
 

Because that's how it was for 10 years, and people still crafted, and back then things like hunting loot actually had markup, because there was demand for the loot, when crafters couldn't just get click mats from TT.
 
Because that's how it was for 10 years, and people still crafted, and back then things like hunting loot actually had markup, because there was demand for the loot, when crafters couldn't just get click mats from TT.
Nope. Was no demand for crafting 10 years ago either. Crafters just paid markup to access the slot machine handle back then... real pain back then doing stuff like filters that were just fed to the TT... Now crafters do the same thing but are using TT ingredients for the same result.

Markup levels back then were artificially inflated.

Using the 'way back 10 year ago' philosophy, you should be complaining about sweat markup prices more than about crafting markup prices. There is more uses for sweat today than back then, so in theory the demand and subsequently markup should be higher now, right? See, it's flawed logic.

To all the hunters and miners out there that keep posting stupid threads like this asking Mindark to do away with it since there's nothing equivalent in hunting and mining in cost per click, stop asking Mindark to do away with EP and start asking them to add more stuff that you can buy from the TT or somewhere low cost (since ep bp itself isn't in the tt) that will allow you to up your cost per click for similar returns in mining and hunting... Maybe have Mindark adjust stats on old school guns or whatever... Bring on the 'adjusted jester d5' or whatever that will do massive amounts of damage but cost you a pretty penny in how much you pay for the ammo in using it.
 
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sure you just need an UL gun and you pay the markup once. the problem is, what does a gun cost that comes anywhere near the cycle speed of ep4? 50k? 100k? sure the ep1 and 2 are fine, even though a gun in comparison to ep2 still costs like 3k but what does the ep4 bp cost in comparison to gun? it costs like 400 or 500 peds. thats a joke. and a finder alone doesnt let you cycle that huge amounts. thats comparable to a lvl 13 amp from tt for miner. and thats not the case. for that kind of gamble a miner needs to pay 120%+ MU. and a decent hunter at top tier cycle speed needs to spend maybe 300k peds on his equipment to be able to hunt at that speed. compare that to the 500 ped for the bp. its a fucking joke.
and what about the explosive hunter? they need to pay MU for ammo.
 
what does the ep4 bp cost in comparison to gun? it costs like 400 or 500 peds.

Well the problem with the cost of purchasing the BP is from the fact that there is a higher cap limit on that BP then on weapons/finders/amp at the same level. I guess MA do have control over that, as soon as they stop dropping it the BP would go up in price. Alternatively MA could just increase the cap limit on all those comparable items and see their value drop and many loose thousands of PEDs, but it would level the playing field a bit.

I hope they don't do that as would not want anyone to lose a ton of PED's on value of items, but it is one way to solve at least some of the complaints against EP4.
 
And your other argument about 20 PED / click is also invalid !!!

Whoa. When I was gambling on amps a few years ago among other things there were ways to push my cost to click higher while avoiding markup?!

Sarcasm aside I was always under the impression people didn't give a shit about lower grade explosive bps. Simply that you can get a 20 ped/click while avoiding mu.

Posted on mobile. Expect typos.
 
love that peeps get on the issue

love that you good people get on the issue, even - as it's said - it's been debated before. My basic thought is simple: Cycling is good for the EU economy, let the PED take some turns before it ends in the coffers of MA (and let us have some of it back).

Now... how to do... ye, complicated. But at least build from the basic idea that it is better to let PED go a few "rounds" before they wanish into the system and are gone into the spreadsheets :)

Thanks all for reading and taking your time to type back!

eras
 
sure you just need an UL gun and you pay the markup once. the problem is, what does a gun cost that comes anywhere near the cycle speed of ep4? 50k? 100k?

There is none!
A little math, a gun that cycles 20 PED as fast as the EP IV BP, would be a gun shooting 10 PED ammo/shot or a sword with 10 PED decay/strike at 60 Atts/min.
At a comon dps of 2.5-3.0 dpp, that would be 2500-3000 DMG / shot, have fun in PvP when this ever exist LOL


sure the ep1 and 2 are fine, even though a gun in comparison to ep2 still costs like 3k

Another BS

EP1 = 2 pec / click = such a gun can be bought at TT
EP2 = 20 pec / click = mid level guns with fairly usable on most mobs, that are artifically TT food for the most high end hunters, when looting it from hunting (yes, not crafted, those are looted).
A UL one, is roughly about +500 to 1k -- well I have a UL one, and I didn´t pay a lot for it. If you can´t afford to buy it, you can´t afford to shoot it (hint!)


but what does the ep4 bp cost in comparison to gun? it costs like 400 or 500 peds.
thats a joke. and a finder alone doesnt let you cycle that huge amounts. thats comparable to a lvl 13 amp from tt for miner. and thats not the case. for that kind of gamble a miner needs to pay 120%+ MU. and a decent hunter at top tier cycle speed needs to spend maybe 300k peds on his equipment to be able to hunt at that speed. compare that to the 500 ped for the bp. its a fucking joke.
and what about the explosive hunter? they need to pay MU for ammo.

And why you complain now, that crafters can cycle 20 PED / click, and miners/hunters can´t, when it was the same over 10 years ago.
Nobody complained about Dynera Sights and other expencive click BPs 10 years ago.
Those always cycled 20 PED / click, but hunters/miners have had nothing compareable, ok, miners could use big amps to get to that speed, but standing at one point and dropping probe after probe, not recomandable, so miners still had to run between drops, what lowered the cycle ratio.

The 20 PED / click BPs are much older than the Explo BPs, those are even older than UL SIB weapons, and older than most L gear that exist today.

I still see only one reason for all this complaining.
You don´t get MU from crafting gamblers anymore :D

And what does it to the comunity?
I can tell you what Explo IV does for the comunity, it keeps EU alive - making MA some $ to pay the bills.

I still don´t get why you want to cycle PED that fast in hunting or mining.
If you really want to cycle PED that fast, damn start crafting !

There is even options to cycle PED faster than with Explo 4, but for that you need to pay MU.
Still an option for real gamblers, as MU is a lot less than 10 years ago, so your loss will not be as high as it would have been 10 years ago :D
And additional effect for the ingame economy, if you start to use of the looted/mined resources, maybe MU start to raise again.
Actually I wouldn´t bet on it, as the oversupply of materials from hunting and mining is huge!
 
I still believe that along with a previous thread on mining that 'shrapnel' equivalent should be added to mining which would limit the vast quantities of the lower end tt food ores/enmatters/treasures.

This way you could have say 40% Nanocubes, 30% Shrapnel (Hunting) and 30% Shrapnel (Mining).

Or alternatively another option would be 50/50 hunting/mining shrapnel.

This type of material makeup would stimulate the number of hunters/miners as the shrapnel would have a larger demand and thus promote more cycling by both professions. If EP crafting burns up too much shrapnel and the markups raise they would then move onto other blueprints which would cause the MU of shrapnel to fall while the new material would rise.
 
Just add ep bp V (200 P/click) and VI (2000 P/click).

Once all the ep gamblers go broke there will be no more ep super hofs and ma gets rich everybody wins
 
Just add ep bp V (200 P/click) and VI (2000 P/click).

Once all the ep gamblers go broke there will be no more ep super hofs and ma gets rich everybody wins

They could also make a big window, you can trow the peds trought it, directly to MA's pocket. There is a big screen also, above the window, show you : "Thanks for the spend".
 
agreed. The current EP crafting is absolutely useless and adds nothing to the game.
It's just a very cheap and short term way of MA to make money.

This - is MA's biggest problem. Our biggest problem is how to ask them to change without being or sounding insulting. Can't help it though, if they are incapable of seeing it themselves.

Sadly, I think they have figured out lag makes them money and are now trying to exploit it for all its worth. They need to know the bulk of their value is long term players - not fresh nubes, not salami-slicing, not repossessing lost avatars. These players are investors. And as far as I ever knew, they are the main kingpin holding the entire thing together.
 
I still believe that along with a previous thread on mining that 'shrapnel' equivalent should be added to mining which would limit the vast quantities of the lower end tt food ores/enmatters/treasures.

This way you could have say 40% Nanocubes, 30% Shrapnel (Hunting) and 30% Shrapnel (Mining).

Or alternatively another option would be 50/50 hunting/mining shrapnel.

This type of material makeup would stimulate the number of hunters/miners as the shrapnel would have a larger demand and thus promote more cycling by both professions. If EP crafting burns up too much shrapnel and the markups raise they would then move onto other blueprints which would cause the MU of shrapnel to fall while the new material would rise.

This might work
:yup:
 
Only the UL gun is need
Ammo = TT
Decay on gun = TT
Repairs = TT

Only the UL finder is need:
Probes = TT
Repairs = TT

And your other argument about 20 PED / click is also invalid !!!

The 20 PED + / click BPs existed long time befor Explo IV already
High end amps
Several weapon BPs
Sights and Scoops

There is a lot that cost way more than 20 PED / click, cycling PED in crafting was always a lot faster than by hunting/mining, since I started over 10 years ago!


No hunter is forced to buy anything L with MU
No miner is forced to buy anything L with MU

Why should crafter be forced to buy stackables with MU ?

I know why you want it.
From your point of view and many others aswell, the crafters should pay for the hunters/miners freeplay.

Why ???

Well said! + rep.
May also add that MA should do away with EP globals!Gets on my nerves..please STOP!
 
Well said! + rep.
May also add that MA should do away with EP globals!Gets on my nerves..please STOP!


:scratch2:

First you give +rep for a post that promotes EP crafting, but in the next line you say the globals that it gives get on your nerves.
Isnt that a bit contradictionary?
 
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