Estates - Account Liquidations? New Shops Places promised 9+ (soon to be 10) years ago...

mastermesh

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Maria Mesh
What causes items and deeds to go to the MindArk Official Liquidator for sales like the one that happened a few years back?

http://www.entropiauniverse.com/bulletin/buzz/2013/12/16/Account-Liquidation-Auctions.xml

I'd assume that avatars that don't log in any more get their items going to the Liquidator?.. but what's the timeline on that happening before the auctions hit?

Over in The Crazy Estates Thread I noticed that some names on some estate terminals appear to be avatars that haven't been in game a long time for various reasons... 2 examples that come to my mind were a couple of apartments that had Island Girl's name on the estate terminal... There's some others out there too but those are the 2 most somewhat concrete examples of this I have right now...

while the estate terminal does not necessarily tell us who actually holds the deed for the place at the moment, it got me thinking about what criteria Mindark is going to use/start using/is already using to get those deeds in to the Liquidator's hands?

Also, along a similar line, when will the shops in the basements of the apartments be sold off that haven't been sold off yet?... some of the terminals don't even show up when you operate them, so that seems to be an indication that the deeds for em never left the Estate Broker Avatar's hands yet? - Is that a correct assumption?

10 years is a long time to wait so far for those to go on the market so far..

(we finally got the farming and 2 handed weapons promised all those years back, how much longer do we have to wait for the additional shops, etc.)
 
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You can't have more shops when the ones that are available aren't active.
 
You can't have more shops when the ones that are available aren't active.
Some are active. Others are not... Some are not because the folks holding the deeds left the game a long time ago and never returned...

More may become active if all of the neighboring properties actually were owned (ok held) by avatars... Not releasing all of the estates in game that are already in game just leads to ghost town looks to the place... Ghost towns are nice for Westerns but not so much for sci-fi themed mmos.
 
put any shop deeds that are untouched for a year into the auction ! investors just devalue shops with keeping em empty !!!
 
I'd assume that avatars that don't log in any more get their items going to the Liquidator?.. but what's the timeline on that happening before the auctions hit?

... snip ...

while the estate terminal does not necessarily tell us who actually holds the deed for the place at the moment, it got me thinking about what criteria Mindark is going to use/start using/is already using to get those deeds in to the Liquidator's hands?

The answer is in the ToU you agree to with every log in!

5. Account Inactivity, Account Ban and Account Termination

5.1. Definitions

The following terms referred to in this paragraph will have the following meaning:

Terminated Account (or “Account Termination”) means that the Account is purged and that You will no longer be able to retrieve its contents or to re-activate it to access Entropia Universe. Purging the Account means that, when applicable, all skills will be deleted, any estate deeds will be transferred back to MindArk and/or MindArk's Partner and the virtual objects on the Account will be exchanged for their Trade Terminal (TT) value. The aggregated value will be added to the balance on the PED Card connected to Your Account for You to withdraw if exceeding the minimal withdrawal limit of 1 000 PED. Any pending transactions involving a Terminated Account will be revoked.

... snip ...

5.3. Inactivated Account
You acknowledge and agree that Your Entropia Universe Account will be deemed inactive if it has not been logged into for a period of ninety (90) consecutive days.


5.4. Terminated Account
You acknowledge and agree that your Entropia Universe Account will be deemed to have been abandoned by You and consequently automatically Terminated if it has not been accessed for a period of three hundred and sixty-five (365) consecutive days (i.e. 275 days after an account becomes inactive as described in section 5.3 above).

You also agree to assign MindArk and/or MindArk's Partners all rights in Your Terminated Entropia Universe Account according to the procedures established in this paragraph 5. You hereby discharge MindArk, any of MindArk's Partners and their respective officers, directors and employees, from and against any and all claims, demands, liabilities, costs, and expenses to You arising out of, or relating to, Your Terminated Entropia Universe Account.

In the event that Your Account is Terminated and if applicable, no refund will be granted except for the balance on Your PED Card and the TT value of the objects on the Account, as set out above. Any delinquent or unresolved issues relating to former participation in the Entropia Universe must be resolved before MindArk will permit You to register a new Account.

After 365 days not log in, the deeds on that account go back to MA/PP.

Estate deeds only go back to MA if the deed holder is inactive.

An active player may hold a deed, he never claimed at the estate terminal, still showing a name from an account deleted long ago at the terminal. As long he does not become inactive and terminated himself, the deed will not go back to MA/PP.
 
I've forwarded this to the dev team and linked the relevant threads, so we are currently considering what to do with the estates.
 
I've forwarded this to the dev team and linked the relevant threads, so we are currently considering what to do with the estates.

Thanks for the communication Ludvig, it's awesome.

Cheers
 
Let me see if I understand this:

You're promoting taking people's assets that they purchased by 'policing' the TOU and game environment yourselves, to then instruct MA to take back other players property on the basis that "you" think those assets could be better utilised.

What a bunch of c***'s

Rick
 
The issue I see with the unused estates is, that if not claimed, we can´t see who holds the deed, so we can´t make an offer to buy it.

If info at estates terminals would update automatically, without the need of claiming at the estate terminal, then everybody could see, who holds the deeds. In that case everybody interested in an estate, could just check estate terminal info, and make an offer to buy that estate.

With actual mechanics it really sucks a little.

Taking off assets from inaktive accounts is no issue for me, as it is mentioned in ToU that this will happen after 365 days inactivity (not logged in).

Another thing is the speculants that have bought estates, never claimed at terminal and only waiting for a raise in value, to sell for profit. This estates surely should be untouched by MA.
Improvement of the mechanics, so that everybody would know who is the real owner, is something I really would like to see.
 
Thank you for the official communications.

This is certainly a problem and it is very sad to see so many shops/apartments abandoned particularly those locked in inactive accounts.

Maybe MA need to be strict with the 365 day inactivity policy and get those items back out on the open market. This could raise some nice funds for the company during the year as well.

If we get a nice lending system people who don't want to use their apartment could rent it out to someone who does want it :).
 
Let me see if I understand this:

You're promoting taking people's assets that they purchased by 'policing' the TOU and game environment yourselves, to then instruct MA to take back other players property on the basis that "you" think those assets could be better utilised.

What a bunch of c***'s

Rick

It is called a CPO (compulsory purchase order) in real-life, and is used very regularly, especially in run-down areas where derelict shops are left to rot as the landowner only cares about the land value (see: London).
 
It is called a CPO (compulsory purchase order) in real-life, and is used very regularly, especially in run-down areas where derelict shops are left to rot as the landowner only cares about the land value (see: London).

If asset owners will be compensated with the value of the sale, that's a slightly different prospective, assuming the owner is given adequate warning.

Although players policing other players to get their hands on items they want, still feels somewhat 'dirty'.

If players go down the road of saying I've checked Jon Does tracker, I don't think he's logged on for a year, so MA take his shop because I want it. Then Ma say his account is now closed and he lost everything.......then that kind of stinks. I think in the spirit of our "community" that's a very low blow.

Please lets not police each other, that's what the SS got people to do in Germany that they felt "didn't quite fit-in" with everyone else, and those community citizens Jewish or not were carted off to be gassed as well.

Cheers

Rick
 
Please lets not police each other, that's what the SS got people to do in Germany that they felt "didn't quite fit-in" with everyone else, and those community citizens Jewish or not were carted off to be gassed as well.
Yes, you are right, policing is not something good, but on the other hand, empty estates are indeed a blight that Mindark should do something about... I guess folks can do what the please when they own the deeds, but it still is a bit silly, and a shame, to have a deed and just let the place sit there empty, unused, like a big blighted eyesore in real life. (still wonder why top floor of Emerald Lakes never was sold off yet, etc.)

Honestly, the issue with the estates that are already in the hands of avatars isn't as big of a problem in my eyes as the problem of the places in game that no one has ever owned... There's a lot of space in Calypso that no one has ever had a chance to own.... There's A LOT of estates with Estate Broker's name still on em. That's a problem since it causes very, very fake supply and demand markup all over the place.
 
All estates that haven't been claimed in greater than a year should be revoked.
This is not real life. Property values have not shifted much in 10 years

Cape Corinth Market Place is a case and point to the situation with over half the booths unclaimed, sitting idol.
Whole floors of shopping malls unused??? WTF
 
Utterly ridiculous to attempt to link any of this to Nazi Germany.

Back on actual topic. MA should decide an enforceable policy, publicise it more widely than just in TOU, and then enforce it.
 
werent some shop not usable from but for years if so the problem is on ma side how long there going to be here trying to do something whit them when you cant fix them for years
 
Even if the estates were claimed and sold off, there's no guarantees that the person buying isn't another speculator (EU has plenty) and will do exactly the same thing - sit on the deed and leave it empty.

One way to keep the shops active would be to leave them in Calypso's hands and turn them into rental / leased properties. Provided they turn over a certain amount or have a certain number of unique avatar trades the player loses the lease. Active shops wouldn't have a problem but the ones abandoned get taken back and someone else can try.

Safe guards would have to be in place to stop someone setting it up so that one trade could fulfil the lease and sitting on it.
 
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Utterly ridiculous to attempt to link any of this to Nazi Germany.

Back on actual topic. MA should decide an enforceable policy, publicise it more widely than just in TOU, and then enforce it.

Agree, not going to comment further on that.

I think the best policy forward would be as such:

A. Insert a clause into all deeds (estate, landarea, shop, CLD, AUD, etc) which states that in the situation of account liquidation (i.e. when the account is locked and purged as per the new TOU rules) the deed will be reimbursed in PED for the current market value of that item[SUP]1[/SUP].

B. Create a new "Property" terminal (independent of auction) which lists all current property locations, owners, and allows for the trade of these deeds. This would include CLD, AUD (though I would exclude naming the owners & quantities held of these items). It should just be a database of what can already be learned through estate terminals.

C. Once this is done, exclude deeds from being traded on the general auction. Each deed becomes a unique item (excluding AUD/CLD), with its own independent market history which is all logged through the estate terminal[SUP]2[/SUP]. Introduce a new deed listing and trading interface which uses a multiplier system for stacked deeds (AUD/CLD) to stop mis-listing.

D. Mindark should periodically release seized estates onto the estate terminal; could be done either regular (SB:0) or dutch (SB:MV) auction. When I say periodically, I mean, MA should not be sat on multiple unclaimed deeds.

The only thing then is to discuss deed hoarding, which while is an issue I think this system allows a good free market approach - why not see how it goes and alter it later (i.e. ownership restrictions on multiple estates).

[SUP]1.[/SUP]Market value is obtained through [SUP]2.[/SUP]
 
Deed hoarding will always be a problem, limiting the number of deeds an account can hold won't work - it's too easy to setup an alt or get a friend / relative to hold them.

The only real way to fix hoarding and non-use of shop estates by the owners is to make their use and the sales part of the requirements to hold the deed.

The deed becomes a license to sell stuff within it that can be removed if you don't / won't make enough effort.
 
Even if the estates were claimed and sold off, there's no guarantees that the person buying isn't another speculator (EU has plenty) and will do exactly the same thing - sit on the deed and leave it empty.

One way to keep the shops active would be to leave them in Calypso's hands and turn them into rental / leased properties. Provided they turn over a certain amount or have a certain number of unique avatar trades the player loses the lease. Active shops wouldn't have a problem but the ones abandoned get taken back and someone else can try.

Safe guards would have to be in place to stop someone setting it up so that one trade could fulfil the lease and sitting on it.
I think some of the planet partners are trying that set up in the near future... not sure it's a workable solution since it harkens back to the days of old when there were monthly rental fees on all estates. A 'shop directory' that tied in to the auction would help, but it's not something on Mindark's priority list, although it probably should be since there's been a lot of wishlist threads from multiple folks asking for it in the past....

Shop Directory
shop directory
Shop directory


Something else that might help, although in a slightly indirect way, would be to allow a weekly or monthly freebie (or extremely cheap - perhaps same cost as planetary entry fee from space) "tp to home planet'" or planet of choice... wouldn't have to allow stackables to travel in this unless it's a paid trip... maybe make it free if no stacks, and cost the same as auction transport fee would be + planet entry fee if you did carry stacks? Reason being, I suspect some folks that hold deeds on multiple planets don't planet hop as much as they really want to to manage their estates on multiple planets...since space keeps em from it due to time limitations, possibility of being looted, possibilty of being harassed by multiple kills from same avatar pirate, etc.... so they let the estate on the planet that they are not on go unused or abandoned while they are on 'an extended vacation elsewhere' (funny to see some signs in some shops that have wordings similar to that as an explanation to why the shop isn't regularly stocked), etc.
 
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There could be different rates - 10ped if you're expecting 1000 sales / month or 1000ped for only 10 sales / month.

Or do it afterwards - pay a deposit, pay the sales charge at the end of the month or choose to let it go and get the deposit back. The issue would be the charge rate as shops in out of the way areas would have to have a different rate to those nearer the TP's.

Or move the local tp's nearer shops.
 
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There could be different rates - 10ped if you're expecting 1000 sales / month or 1000ped for only 10 sales / month.

Or do it afterwards - pay a deposit, pay the sales charge at the end of the month or choose to let it go and get the deposit back. The issue would be the charge rate as shops in out of the way areas would have to have a different rate to those nearer the TP's.

Or move the local tp's nearer shops.

Careful what you are asking for... or Mindark might go back to the monthly fees which would be a major back peddle, and may cause more shops to actually close rather than get more open and active

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...be-abolished&p=2622656&viewfull=1#post2622656

Remember how much it used to cost on rent?
pricecheck1_211019.jpg
 
Is MA going to do anything about FOMA which has allowed cronoanterion to dwindle to almost extinct levels?
 
there are a lot of items *confiscated* from avatars that were inactive for years or permaban or other reasons , shops , estates , faps , guns , armours etc , they should comeback in game , MA should resell them or put it on LOOT , maybe in a system like the one they did with the Land deeds. its not about taking people proprieties with force just because they are not using them , its about the items that are from people that are not anymore in this game.People would be happy if some old school items , or something else could be finded in loot again or biding for them , items that are rare and players need them.
 
there are a lot of items *confiscated* from avatars that were inactive for years or permaban or other reasons , shops , estates , faps , guns , armours etc , they should comeback in game , MA should resell them or put it on LOOT , maybe in a system like the one they did with the Land deeds. its not about taking people proprieties with force just because they are not using them , its about the items that are from people that are not anymore in this game.People would be happy if some old school items , or something else could be finded in loot again or biding for them , items that are rare and players need them.

yes indeed.

If you've left the game, why the hell care what happened to your stuff?
If you care just dont leave. Simple as that.
The rules are fixed and clear. I dont see it as being confiscated. You volantarily leave this game and therefor give your assets back to Entropia/MA as stated in the rules.

But, what about people who are forced to leave for over a year or cant log in for over a year (for whatever reason)? Can execptions be made?


Yes, putting it back into the loot pool would be nice.
I wouldnt mind looting a shop :yup:
 
yes indeed.

If you've left the game, why the hell care what happened to your stuff?
If you care just dont leave. Simple as that.
The rules are fixed and clear. I dont see it as being confiscated. You volantarily leave this game and therefor give your assets back to Entropia/MA as stated in the rules.

But, what about people who are forced to leave for over a year or cant log in for over a year (for whatever reason)? Can execptions be made?


Yes, putting it back into the loot pool would be nice.
I wouldnt mind looting a shop :yup:

Yes i agree , and I didnt mean realy confiscated , it`s just a way to say it , the items that were taken back from inactive players or banned players should come back in game`s economy , everybody want`s to pay&hunt or mine or i dont know for a new MM or a supremacy piece , to have the chance to loot it , they wont take it and `` lets hold it in storage to stay there `` ]
that items ill go into the EU economy and make decay and bankroll.
but in this case~if tey will be putted on lootpool~ they should not be putted only on daspletors , vanguards , warloks , and i dont know what elite , where again only ubers can loot everything , no I want to see a Supremacy UL looted on a argonaut or , a MM looted even on a lvl 40 mob , that is dynamic , not only on things where 15 people in game have access
(because atm there are 20 /30 players that have the ultimate top gear in game , that they will never sell it , and if a new uber item its putted ingame , as loot or prize in a Event , they will win it , and if its better than actualy gear they will keep it , if not they will sell it to others but never cant equalize them as gear , because you will never have access )
 
but in this case~if tey will be putted on lootpool~ they should not be putted only on daspletors , vanguards , warloks , and i dont know what elite , where again only ubers can loot everything , no I want to see a Supremacy UL looted on a argonaut or , a MM looted even on a lvl 40 mob , that is dynamic , not only on things where 15 people in game have access

Yes, this would be my biggest fear.
If it goes to the loot pool, normal people wont loot it anyways :scratch2:
 
Careful what you are asking for... or Mindark might go back to the monthly fees which would be a major back peddle, and may cause more shops to actually close rather than get more open and active

Agree, the high fee was the reason why I sold my PA Mall shop years ago, didn´t manage to have enough sales to cover the maintain fee on the shop.
Did a lot better with my old Sakura City shop.
Well sold that too, because I got a nice shop at New Oxfort, that bugged a few days later, and had to wait some years to get a New Oxfort Mall shop as compensation, that I still operate today.

With maintain fee on it, I would give up on that shop too, as there is simply not enough sales per month.
 
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