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Enhancer break rate according to turnover and shot rate changes

girtsn

girtsn

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Girts Smilgs Niedra
Hello.

There are 2 things really wrong with fast weapons (yes biased as I own and use one). But I think these are quite objective and based on stats not imagination.

1. Enhancer break rate seems to be largely based on uses per minute. this really makes no sense, I agree that dpp/range other things could be a factor but 2 guns with the same kind of turnover per time should break then enhancers at the same rate approximately, currently the gap uses per minute wise is huge and makes no sense at all.

2. The weapons that can go over 100 shots per minute with introduced buffs go into some dark area as soon as they do - where no theoretical dpp calculations can be done as the decay & ammo consumption is changed dynamically on the amp and on the gun, the weapon stats don't reflect it and the formula used for these calculations is in the category of black magic, meaning also it can change any time like it already did while trying to fix it couple of times during some Mayhem events.
Please either fix the issue to go over 100 shots per minute (preferred though maybe technically impossible) or reduce their uses per minute so that no weapon in game goes over 100 with buffs, keeping all other stats in line. I for one have no trust for black magic...
 
I think the break rate is balanced well considering that the lower attack speed weapons get this as an advantage since they have other downsides (getting less effect from amp is one thing++). I can however understand that you want to remove one of the only bad things about the modmerc since you own one :D Remove the enhancer breakrate and the 100speed thing and it really doesn't have any bad sides anymore.
 
As said biased but I think there is a better way of handling it...
Would rather suggest considering changing the "getting less effect from amp" part... If what some say is true (that MA prefers enhancer users) then some of us are double screwed since it is already balanced as you say. Imho breakage should mainly be based on turnover just like many other things. Same goes for enhancer consumption on some faps, it is just crazy how they get eaten. Same goes for armor decay. And I guess many other things. The end result, most not using enhancers - is this best for the game?
The 100+ thing could be advantageous as well by messing with the dpp, the problem is that that calculation is in the area of black magic due to introduction of buffs. Not really the fault of anyone owning a fast weapon right?
minim said:
I think the break rate is balanced well considering that the lower attack speed weapons get this as an advantage since they have other downsides (getting less effect from amp is one thing++). I can however understand that you want to remove one of the only bad things about the modmerc since you own one :D Remove the enhancer breakrate and the 100speed thing and it really doesn't have any bad sides anymore.
Click to expand...
 
I have to agree with Girts, MM enhancer breakage is out of control
 
I don't really see a huge problem with break rates.. obviously everyone would want them lowered.

I don't own a MM, but break rate on a 70/min weapon i used was very very fast. Enhancers aren't really worth it, but especially so at that breakage rate.

I don't really know how else MA could balance decay rates without royally fucking something up and giving a huge boost to some weapons while ruining others.
 
Using 1.000 Dmg Enhancer per 40 hours of Mayhem if using ModMerc is to much!
I count more Enhancer drops during a Hunt than Critical Hits :laugh:

It should be based on dmg you doing and not on uses.
Never used Dmg Enhancer on a Mann Mph, should be worth a try :lolup::lolup::lolup:
 
pretty much every weapon ive used so far has a break rate depending on dpp. every single weapon used breaks enhancers on average which makes their break even point at roughly 700% enhancer cost. using only accu enhancers though
 
Per the data I have collected, enhancer break rates are APM dependent. If we say that normal break rates are 1 in 2100 shots, you can compare to low APM rates of m83 which is 1 in about 2750. Then we also know that imk2 and MM eat enhancers like a fat kid eats candy.

I have to agree with minim, except for the bogus claim of conflict of interest. There is a balance to all things.

Would it really matter much if enhancer prices/hoarding weren't out of control and were back to 250%? Probably not. Could MA have screwed something off with their 100+APM calculations? Well, yes.. because it has happened already.
 
Wen i have chose my gun I have especially buy a slow reload gun to try saving on enhancer

like mention in the second post it seem well balanced

fast reload have amp advantage
slow reload have enhancer advantage
 
well the choice of the gun could have been made before introduction of the tiers and the buffs
also, it is everything but well balanced
the "amp advantage" has no dpp advantage
the "enhancer advantage" has a huge dpp advantage
Shady said:
Wen i have chose my gun I have especially buy a slow reload gun to try saving on enhancer

like mention in the second post it seem well balanced

fast reload have amp advantage
slow reload have enhancer advantage
Click to expand...
 
last time i checked, for modmerc it is 1 in 1000 shots per tier
atomicstorm said:
normal break rates are 1 in 2100 shots, you can compare to low APM rates of m83 which is 1 in about 2750. Then we also know that imk2 and MM eat enhancers like a fat kid eats candy.
Click to expand...
 
girtsn said:
last time i checked, for modmerc it is 1 in 1000 shots per tier
Click to expand...

offtopic : i tested for mod trv i got like 2800 avg in ~200k shoots
 
Its not really this simple.......I know about a lesser dmg high apm gun that breaks one enhancer/5400 shots......

I do think they set breakrates individually per gun and not a general per shot thingy.


//Linz
 
Thread starter could simply buy 4 sets of 50 enhancers for Each tier, when some break and you have a moment of time you slap on the second fresh set etc etc. After the Hunt you sell the enhancers on auction and get fresh ones from a crafter.

Problem solved.

(Unless enhancers break as Mindark says they break)
 
i would assume its a formula, i really cannot imagine MA spending the effort to manually enter each gun by hand - then by error there could be some real freak guns out there.
guess quite some item stats are in it (range, dpp, spm, dps, lwt/blp, level to max, considered oldschool supergun, whatnot ...)
but i think the point is pretty clear, if 1/2000 is considered normal, 1/1000 break rate enters some other territory
krogfan said:
Its not really this simple.......I know about a lesser dmg high apm gun that breaks one enhancer/5400 shots......
I do think they set breakrates individually per gun and not a general per shot thingy.
Click to expand...
 
*Mod Merc users dont need crit hit sound... they just go by enhancer break sound.

*Mod merc users count crit hits inflicted after hunt when they check how many enhancers are burned.

*Mod Merc is actually slowest gun ingame (when you add time u spend applying enhancers).

*Mod Merc breakes more enhancers on evaded shots than M83 per succesful hits

*Since i bought MM t10 my girlfriend now measure all in enhancers instead of minutes - apparently it takes exactly 4 enhacers for soft boiled egg and 10 for hard boiled.

*What would happen if i would dump all my broken enhancers from MM on the moon? - Lunar Eclipse

*What is the difference between enhanced mod merc and a needy wife? - wife is cheaper to run!

*Enhanceism is a new organisation that you can join after you buy a mod merc. It is a non-profit organisation!
 
dmg enh prices too high in general right now, not just for modmerc
 
Shady said:
Wen i have chose my gun I have especially buy a slow reload gun to try saving on enhancer

like mention in the second post it seem well balanced

fast reload have amp advantage
slow reload have enhancer advantage
Click to expand...

Fast weapon also has less overkill advantage, and get to your fap faster advantage.
 
girtsn said:
i would assume its a formula, i really cannot imagine MA spending the effort to manually enter each gun by hand - then by error there could be some real freak guns out there.
guess quite some item stats are in it (range, dpp, spm, dps, lwt/blp, level to max, considered oldschool supergun, whatnot ...)
but i think the point is pretty clear, if 1/2000 is considered normal, 1/1000 break rate enters some other territory
Click to expand...


It is possible that by default there is a set 1/1k or some other number, or some base formula which calculate based on eco / dpp / etc. They can tweak it for specific "special" weapons.
 
Grave Digger said:
Using 1.000 Dmg Enhancer per 40 hours of Mayhem if using ModMerc is to much!
I count more Enhancer drops during a Hunt than Critical Hits :laugh:

It should be based on dmg you doing and not on uses.
Never used Dmg Enhancer on a Mann Mph, should be worth a try :lolup::lolup::lolup:
Click to expand...

so you say more apm = more enhancer broken per amount of shots?
for example when i was usin the adj mk2 (with imp a105) i had a break rate of roughly one in 5200 shots.
on the kinetic TEN it was around one in 3700 (+- 200 iirc). the kinetic TEN has nearly have the apm but a faster break rate so that statement alone cant be true.
also people should factor in that if it is a forumula (which it certainly is) then the break rate should also be different depending on if i use an amp or what amp i use as it increases / decreases the damage. rings might even have an effect on break rate too, when they increase the crit chance and damage.
the 1 in 1k shots break rate of mod merc is one per 1k shots per slot i suppose, right? that seems far too high so maybe its bugged. or it is to make up for its good base eco. also using dmg enhancers... i dont know why people do that... many do it and then complain about their bad returns.
a friend of mine exlusively uses accu enhancers on his spirit TEN gun T10 and makes 110% tt return on anything he hunts.
 
Grave Digger said:
Using 1.000 Dmg Enhancer per 40 hours of Mayhem if using ModMerc is to much!
I count more Enhancer drops during a Hunt than Critical Hits :laugh:

It should be based on dmg you doing and not on uses.
Never used Dmg Enhancer on a Mann Mph, should be worth a try :lolup::lolup::lolup:
Click to expand...

?? That is the standard break rate for most guns, 1/2000
I used the X1000 at mm, half mm speed and used 500 dmg enh.
1000/10(slots)/40(hours) =2.5
2.5*2000=5000
5000/100 (apm) = 50 min constant shooting
Imk2 also lands at this rate.
If smilgs have 1/1000 over a serious volyme and grave have 1/2000 he should contact support
 
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ok i will correct myself its insignificant compared to the difference of enhancer breakage difference especially considering MU :)
Xen said:
Of course it does, a204 on a MM has more eco effect than on a MBGH.
Click to expand...
 
Just thought I would jump in and state that Enhancer break rate is not tied to speed, but to damage.

Example
Old gun: Assassin R150 53/min
new gun: Doa Slugstorm 54/min

The slugstorm breaks enhancers at greater than twice the rate of the old gun. Its a very clear distinction.

The ammo used is 2200 vs 4400, so either its based on damage or ammo used per shot, not speed of weapon. I tend to think its ammo used as the damage isnt x2, the ammo used is.
 
forgo said:
Just thought I would jump in and state that Enhancer break rate is not tied to speed, but to damage.

Example
Old gun: Assassin R150 53/min
new gun: Doa Slugstorm 54/min

The slugstorm breaks enhancers at greater than twice the rate of the old gun. Its a very clear distinction.

The ammo used is 2200 vs 4400, so either its based on damage or ammo used per shot, not speed of weapon. I tend to think its ammo used as the damage isnt x2, the ammo used is.
Click to expand...

2.94 vs 2.78 eco is probably a large part of the reason.
 
Xen said:
2.94 vs 2.78 eco is probably a large part of the reason.
Click to expand...

not sure if u saw my post above , mod trv test eco 3,027 with dante the break rate was 2800 (had decent sample 180k+ shoots, u think its enough ?)
 
MA seems to have moved the game to a situation where the buffs you can apply are more important than the base dpp.
i think enhancer break rates are not adapted this brave new world. same as the fast weapons going into the 100 dark realm :)
Xen said:
2.94 vs 2.78 eco is probably a large part of the reason.
Click to expand...
 
Alina said:
not sure if u saw my post above , mod trv test eco 3,027 with dante the break rate was 2800 (had decent sample 180k+ shoots, u think its enough ?)
Click to expand...

So we need something to compare that to, forgo didn't say what his break rate was. And is that dmg or acc?
 
Xen said:
So we need something to compare that to, forgo didn't say what his break rate was. And is that dmg or acc?
Click to expand...

No difference between dmg and accu in my experience (m83 and imk2)
 
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