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Why are 'renting', 'loaning', and selling a % of something in game type threads allowed here?

mastermesh

mastermesh

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Auction room somewhere...
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Maria Mesh
5.6 - Misleading/Inaccurate Sales Threads
Information provided in Trading threads should be kept factual, verifiable and reasonable. This includes information regarding the statistics, qualities or characteristics of an item, past sales, and/or market history. The use of intentionally misleading information or highly debatable, exaggerated or inaccurate claims in Trading threads is NOT permitted, as such claims and comments invite off-topic discussion and violations of Rule 5.5 and will be deleted without notice.
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Threads about 'renting' items, 'loaning items' or 'sharing' a % of some big estates seem to occur a lot in this forum... Why is that allowed since such trades are not considered 'official' by Mindark?

Clarification about Entropia Banking Operations
Since we released news about the virtual banking licenses, several questions regarding loan services and banking affairs within Entropia Universe have been raised. The main concern has been the lending of items for interest. We feel that we need to clarify our policy about this.
Recently MindArk PE AB issued official virtual banking licenses. These licenses comprise a secured bank system for processing loans and securities in the form of items. All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.
By contrast, loan services offered outside this official bank system cannot be guaranteed by MindArk. If an item is exchanged between avatars, this transaction will be logged as a regular TRADE. And as all trades are final, MindArk will not investigate claims if a loan giving avatar refuses to return items or money.Many people do not fully understand the true value of their virtual items until they are lost. They will then contact MindArk PE AB for assistance and will realize that we cannot help them; this can cause a lot of unnecessary grief and frustration.
We do not wish to discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe, but based on experiences from community feedback and support case history, unfortunately not all entrepreneurs offering loaning services are trustworthy members of the Entropia Universe and therefore we need to be strict in our policies in order to protect the community from scams and cheating.
Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.
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As noted above, according to Mindark:
...If an item is exchanged between avatars, this transaction will be logged as a regular TRADE. And as all trades are final, MindArk will not investigate claims if a loan giving avatar refuses to return items or money.
...any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.
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so ALL 'funds' where one avatar holds stuff that other avatars are claiming they have ownership of should be considered a potential scam in process...

so uh, why are these 'potential scams' allowed here in the forums, over and over and over again?

Below are just a few links to Funds that have been mentioned in forums (some did turn out to be major scams already, some haven't yet... but that doesn't mean they won't eventually...

Mods, why are these allowed to exist here in the forum? They are not officially sanctioned by Mindark, so why are these types threads allowed here at all? Shouldn't they be deleted as soon as found by mods? If not, why not? Since you keep letting them exist, it seems to almost be encouraging folks to start up trust scams imho...

H&R
*fund*
LA Collaboration Fund
Chiee's EU-FUND - Investment Opportunity
My Money Mint add PEDS to your account value every month!!!
R&R Fund
Thread Related to R&R Fund
Pirate's Investment Fund
Entropia Investment Fund
Sell 1% of Twin Peaks Bank Fund
Hardwrath's payback post

Related thread over on ef, since ef is run by some of the same folks as pcf, etc. (so same question applies there - why is it allowed there?):
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...0915-Beware-of-trust-scams-Investment-schemes
 
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Because sometimes people like to collaborate as we are social creatures. If they turn out to be scams MA will not help.
 
Hijacker27 said:
Because sometimes people like to collaborate as we are social creatures. If they turn out to be scams MA will not help.
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I think if the scam was big enough they will probably help, behind the scenes. Officially they don't help with such matters. But they are known to bend things when something big(big $$$$$) screws up.
 
If I rent out something, I demand a colateral?

If I don´t get my item back, I don´t need MA, I just buy another one :)

What MA policy is saying, they will not help to recover your items, thats all.

Nowhere is stated that it is not allowed, its just on your own risk.
 
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I guess what I'm getting at here is that it's gone bad more than a few times around here... so perhaps the mods should start looking at it as a potential scam in progress when these types of threads crop up. It is 'at your own risk', and the forum rules don't want folks accusing one another of scams, etc., so why allow these types of threads to stick around as they area all 'potential scams in progress' and the finger pointing all starts up as soon as it doesn't go as planned... so all the accusations will happen, just a matter of time as to how long...

perhaps if mods don't start stopping these type of threads we should all start posting in them dates that we predict when the fund will fail and turn in to a scam 'officially'... but I guess we can't do that since betting isn't allowed in game, right, lol.
 
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You really do have far too much time on your hands don't you. You should take up a hobby. Have you ever considered playing a game called Entropia Universe?
 
I usually don't take your words as jokes but the last two words made me laugh. Thanks. :popcorn:

Oleg said:
You really do have far too much time on your hands don't you. You should take up a hobby. Have you ever considered playing a game called Entropia Universe?
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One concern I have, is the "investment" schemes.

If an unknown player offers to sell shares in something, for instance a "fund" or a bigger estate, there is pretty much no way to tell if it's serious or if it's a pure scam. Just remember a deal with a "soc shared" mothership some year ago. And, Another problem is if the fund owner drops out of game for one reason or Another (pressing IRL, or avatar lock) what will happen then.

A part of the problem is also that you really can't tell if it's the manager of the fun that can log in as that avatar or if the login credentials are shared - I mean what could happen if a login is shared between gf and bf, and they split up and the "other party" decides to liquidate the assets just to get revenge on the ex. Or if one of the people who use the account gets tricked to "lend out" the estate deed to a former disciple "I trust him fully (even though he showed up in his underwear)".
 
aia said:
One concern I have, is the "investment" schemes.

If an unknown player offers to sell shares in something, for instance a "fund" or a bigger estate, there is pretty much no way to tell if it's serious or if it's a pure scam. Just remember a deal with a "soc shared" mothership some year ago. And, Another problem is if the fund owner drops out of game for one reason or Another (pressing IRL, or avatar lock) what will happen then.

A part of the problem is also that you really can't tell if it's the manager of the fun that can log in as that avatar or if the login credentials are shared - I mean what could happen if a login is shared between gf and bf, and they split up and the "other party" decides to liquidate the assets just to get revenge on the ex. Or if one of the people who use the account gets tricked to "lend out" the estate deed to a former disciple "I trust him fully (even though he showed up in his underwear)".
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Agree here, with the investment shemes its very risky.
Made some bad experience here, myself some years ago and lost some PED, glad it was not to much.
Its high risk investment, if you can trust this fund ? Well only future can tell.

Thats a different story than renting items or taking loans on items.
 
You Just had to post the hardwrath link.. didn't you. (2011)

For the other links, yes all trades are final, I agree. If you don't actually receive a deed, then you could be scammed in the long run.
I Just bought a shop next to Jenny Skycorp. On the wall at her shop are all these paintings which are supposed to be deeds of ownership. The shop itself was scammed from Avalon.
 
Becourse there is demnad on market for such things and no law can sucesfully forbid it. As RL shows where is need there are ppl who are making bussines out of it. Even if they have to preform it "underground".

As for forum it works same. People need to comunicate in this matters. Forum main goal is provide form of comunication. Therefore You have such topics.

Only I see it so simple ?
 
I borrow, rent, and lend items all the time. It helps make my game experience more versatile. I always provide collateral when borrowing, and always demand collateral when lending. If the other person chooses to take off it's not a big deal to me since I set my collateral levels high enough where I'll be satisfied with the price paid.

I invest in specific funds that I have significant reason to believe will succeed and have minimal chance of failure/scamming. That being said, I don't stake the farm on it. I don't invest more than I can lose. Do I want to lose it? Of course not! But that's the risk I take to make significantly better returns than CLD/AUD.
 
If MA said :

"Any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account."

Why ppl keep doing it like there was nothing said?

There's any real risk of ban?

Can someone report players who rent items out of bank system?

Thanks.
 
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If someone was running a loan thread it would probably be closed.

Personally I don't see my fund and others as loan services.

For example, if I borrow money from a bank to buy some land, this is a loan. If two or more people buy some land together then this isn't a loan (imo).

Universe mechanics haven't caught up with the real world yet.
 
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