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How the hell is eco calculated?

B

Blink

Old
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Posts
85
Ok does amount of shots weapon is capable of is not included in this calculation? I have noticed a CONSIDERABLE difference in numbers between a TT weapon and a beginner looted one.

According to entropedia:
Herman CAP-TT: 2.891 dmg/pec 14551 shots! (possible to use 1,717,018 weapon cells before it breaks) (It costs 3 ped)
Piron PBR-0: 2.867 dmg/pec 1519 shots?!(possible to use 126,077 blp ammo before it breaks) (with a max tt value of 2.16 ped)

The difference in dmg/pec is not that incredibly large YET the TT pistol clearly is way way WAAAAAY more durable and in such more economical than looted puny gun(you don't even have to do math, the difference in switching the guns while hunting is very noticable). I'm actualy quite convinced, that if someone did proper math the tt weapon would outperform the piron even if you didn't meet the requirements for it.

Noob guns tend to always be some kind of trap (remember when 9 pec rubious cost 2 ped with markup? Good times) but this is just ridiculous. Explain this eco calculation thing to me please...

Edit:Ok found out how eco works, still quite convinced that looted noob guns are not worth your time.
Edit nr2: Ok amount of max shots doesn't matter its just convenient.
 
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Don't be angry! MA has a specific business model that is dependent on you being happy.
 
Blink said:
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googled it, found loads of pages explaining it. don't have google in your country? use ping or whaver that microsoft crappy tool is.

your math is lacking. there are more variables in play
 
Some guns take more ammo and decay less. Others decay more and take less ammo. You need to look at both weapon decay and ammo consumption to calculate eco. And that is what entropia does. An extremely low decay and higher ammo consumption doesn't make a gun better. Neither does an extremely low ammo consumption and larger decay.
 
Eco is dmg/pec, the cost per shot, it has nothing to do with amount of shots the gun is capable of, which doesn't matter at all.
 
Blink said:
But it doesn't paint the full picture I swear.
Click to expand...

It does. If you compare 2 unlimited weapons with same dmg/pec one of which lasts, say, for 2000 shots and other for 4000, the only difference would be that you have to repair the latter 2 times less often. It's convenient but it doesn't cost you more (at least in repairs; because this convenience is the reason why, for example, high tt repairable melee weapons are valued higher on the market).

If you compare L guns which you bought for markup, that markup is calculated into eco - you need to enter it into the "Weapon decay, %" field in the Weapon Compare tool.
 
There is one aspect that entropedia does not cover.. the poor man's choice.

Say the poor player is at the end of his deposit and still has100 ped to spend.


He has an oldschool level 100 karma killer in his position which sits in his inventory, but is fully decayed and needs repairs. Mr poor player is a level 33 pistoleer, so he is nowhere near the 2.871 eco the karma killer offers at level 100. he actually has an eco of 2.432 on it. Bad choice to use it.

He also sees a cheap (102% markup) Isis LLp25(L) , 2.871 eco and he is maxed on it. It's basically the same gun, also 44 dmg, a bit faster reload and he gets full damage on it.. the gun is max tt at 90 ped.


The choice of the poor player is to repair the karma killer for 10 ped and buy 90 ped ammo, so he can play the game, instead of buying the better eco choice for 92 ped and buy 8 ped ammo.
 
Ok my math sucks, but here, I will try it.(with explanations).

Herman CAP-TT: 2.891 dmg/pec 14,551 shots! (possible to use 1,717,018 weapon cells before it breaks) (It costs 3 ped)
vs
Piron PBR-0: 2.867 dmg/pec 1,519 shots?!(possible to use 126,077 blp ammo before it breaks) (with a max tt value of 2.16 ped)

We should also count crits but I dont know how, so lets just assume our guns will never crit.
How much dmg can we squeeze out of Herman before it breaks? (effective dmg x ammount of shots)
3.48 x 14,551= 50,637
How much will it cost us? (Shots x weapon cells per shot :10000(100 weapon cells=1 pec 10k=1ped) + weapon cost)
14,551 x 118 : 10,000 +3=174.7 ped

How much dmg can we squeeze out of Piron PBR-0?
2.78 x 1,519 = 4,222
How many pirons do we need to get same dmg as herman would?(herman dmg : piron dmg)
50,637 : 4,222 = 11.99
How much ammo will it use up?
11.99 x 126,077 = 1,511,663
How much will it cost us to get same dmg as herman?
(1,511,663 : 10000) + (11.99 x 2.16)= 151.16 + 25.89 = 177.05

Not much difference right? But wait, there is more! Pirons have markup!

25.89 x 212%(Current markup if you check in game)= 54.88

So with the markup the actual cost is:
151.16 + 54.88 = 206.04

Difference between tt gun and bought pirons:
206.04 - 174.7 = 31.34

Extreme case of course. I guess that if you buy these face to face the markup will be lower than AH( I have only looted mine). But my point stands. Dmg/pec is not the whole eco story. Not only that, but its extremely annoying to run out of guns 24/7. TT guns are just straight up better option to hunting puny mobs than noob guns found in arkadia puny mobs(They max out around the same lvl too. Fun.)
 
Blink said:
Ok my math sucks, but here, I will try it.(with explanations).

Herman CAP-TT: 2.891 dmg/pec 14,551 shots! (possible to use 1,717,018 weapon cells before it breaks) (It costs 3 ped)
vs
Piron PBR-0: 2.867 dmg/pec 1,519 shots?!(possible to use 126,077 blp ammo before it breaks) (with a max tt value of 2.16 ped)

We should also count crits but I dont know how, so lets just assume our guns will never crit.
How much dmg can we squeeze out of Herman before it breaks? (effective dmg x ammount of shots)
3.48 x 14,551= 50,637
How much will it cost us? (Shots x weapon cells per shot :10000(100 weapon cells=1 pec 10k=1ped) + weapon cost)
14,551 x 118 : 10,000 +3=174.7 ped

How much dmg can we squeeze out of Piron PBR-0?
2.78 x 1,519 = 4,222
How many pirons do we need to get same dmg as herman would?(herman dmg : piron dmg)
50,637 : 4,222 = 11.99
How much ammo will it use up?
11.99 x 126,077 = 1,511,663
How much will it cost us to get same dmg as herman?
(1,511,663 : 10000) + (11.99 x 2.16)= 151.16 + 25.89 = 177.05

Not much difference right? But wait, there is more! Pirons have markup!

25.89 x 212%(Current markup if you check in game)= 54.88

So with the markup the actual cost is:
151.16 + 54.88 = 206.04

Difference between tt gun and bought pirons:
206.04 - 174.7 = 31.34

Extreme case of course. I guess that if you buy these face to face the markup will be lower than AH( I have only looted mine). But my point stands. Dmg/pec is not the whole eco story. Not only that, but its extremely annoying to run out of guns 24/7. TT guns are just straight up better option to hunting puny mobs than noob guns found in arkadia puny mobs(They max out around the same lvl too. Fun.)
Click to expand...

why does the durability of the gun mean so much to you? if the piron had a 2.9 dmg/pec and 100% markup i would have it over the tt pistol even if it breaks more often... dmg/pec is calculated with decay in question if you didnt know..
 
Blink said:
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you almost got it.

that's why there is no point buying some of the guns, because DPP will suck with the markup.

there are tons of weapons on market that have too high markup, but people still buy it. they check entropedia and see weapon DPP 2.8+, but with markup it drops to 2.4-2.5, but they dont calculate it and cry about bad returns.

unlimited guns have fixed cost, so DPP is easy to calculate, if let's say, you can sell it later for same price, markup = 0

That's why some low level UL guns are great, if you can get same price for it later. HK110, awesome gun. I got ~200 ped profit finishing my puny iron with it back in the day. Gun used to cost +10 ped or something, now it's going for +80
 
Entropedia is your friend. For any weapon whose stats have been entered you can calculate the effective dpp and dps taking into account:

Your skills in the relevant professions
MU of the gun
MU of amp
MU of ammo (relevant for explosives or for UA created from shrapnel)

You can also see effect of enhancers on dps but the reported dpp is misleading as it doesn't take into account enhancer TT cost, mu or break rate.
 
Blink said:
Ok I figured it out. We can close this.
Click to expand...

Ah so you are ready for your next level of enlightenment.

Stage two of EU enlightenment is to realize that MA needs you to be angry as well to support their business model.
 
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