Notice regarding inquiries referring to selling of avatars:

all I'm reading is that ESI prices are too damn high right now.

All this bullshit about it being an RCE therefore you can sell your avatar.

You can't sell your actual life in the real world (no, I don't want some pithy comment about how we all sell our lives to corporations LOLOLOLOL).

Tangibles are able to be sold in EU (skills, items, time). Intangibles (names, accounts, reputations) are not.

It's really fucking simple.

And no, girts, I don't want you to shut up nor do I care if you pay people to be you, it's weird for sure, but then there's plenty of weirdos around. I just recommend that you don't bring more spotlights on your position as someone who 75% of the time (you do pay 3 people, right?) isn't... you.

Because I'm massively for banning accounts for illegal behaviour (defined by MA's ToU); as are your socmates and many other EU contemporaries. Walking on eggshells is probably the right phrase, depending on how MA decide to proceed going forward

Darkaruki said:

all I'm reading is that ESI prices are too damn high right now.

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Yep, 100% what I've been saying. If people want the skills from another avatar, they are able to chip it over. Problem is ESI are too goddamn rare atm and people are skipping that step, cutting everyone else out of the equation and taking over the reputation of the avatar they bought. I want to know WHO I am dealing with in game and people selling avatars is 100% against that.

It should be pretty easy to figure out who sold their avatars because most of the time the method they use to deposit would change . I guess they could could deny it but seems like their banking account information would change. Maybe I am wrong but selling your whole account seems very risky

atomicstorm said:

Avatars are a bank account. You cannot give your bank account to someone else.

There are already mechanisms to remove your skills to sell. There is nothing more needing done.

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As you can even remove your bank account from your Entropia Account.

And using esi ? For what ? To get +100% on the price of skill ? Paying 950 % for esi and gettin 1050 % for skill ? - the tax from Auc? Hahaha you must be fucking joking , yes Selling avatars should be an option , and I will fight for it. As the fact MA don't keep they rules being rules for everyfuckingbody, I can assume that MA is corrupted.or what ? They should think that selling avatars could make them a better advertising, think about " An avatar in EU was sold with 250k dollars " people will be like Omgf ! I wanna try it .

livius said:

And using esi ? For what ? To get +100% on the price of skill ? Paying 950 % for esi and gettin 1050 % for skill ? - the tax from Auc? Hahaha you must be fucking joking , yes Selling avatars should be an option , and I will fight for it. As the fact MA don't keep they rules being rules for everyfuckingbody, I can assume that MA is corrupted.or what ? They should think that selling avatars could make them a better advertising, think about " An avatar in EU was sold with 250k dollars " people will be like Omgf ! I wanna try it .

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with lower ESI prices the money you would get for your skills wouldnt change but the chance of selling it might be higher as the total amount needed to invest would be lower.
but when ESIs would be 200% the skills would be 300% as well. supply and demand.

Darkaruki said:

all I'm reading is that ESI prices are too damn high right now.

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I remember times when ESI was 1500% and people bought it to chip out.

Its cheap to buy ESI today compared to 8-9 years ago.

Well skill is less valuable as there is much more skills available these days and its much easyer to skill (hint: iron missions, skill pills aso)

I am totally against account selling and even account sharing should not be allowed.
I know there is a lot shit like that going on and MA does nothing against it, but that does not mean it is ok.

So better don´t be surprised if your accounts get perma banned anytime in future if you try to share/sell your avatars. Its on your own risk!

Mac said:

Its better off done open and transparently, because the way it works now it just creates a black market.

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exactly, +rep

atomicstorm said:

If you mean, Mr. calling people rednecks and other pejoratives, my forum signature, would you like to call out everyone else who has a forum signature? Including yourself and your LAs when you had them? Grow up.

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Don't mind your signature one bit. Just you trying to say how great Arkadia is compared to Caly in every possible conversation is really really questionable knowing how personally interested you are. Will see after I have spent a bit of time in Arkadia on how justified the push to this promised land is, maybe there is merit to it.
Hmm I never called anyone specific redneck, just made a reference with this word to the group of idiotic Trump supporters (had no idea even it is offensive, guess all my knowledge on subject comes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck_Rampage and some comedies) taking stand against stricter gun control policies
And you are sill off-topic'ing the shit out of my suggestion. Which was that complete skill transfers OVERWRITING the skills of recipient should be allowed and there would be nothing bad in it, MA could take a fee and even reduce the number of skills in transfer.

atomicstorm said:

What people seem to miss with these accounts in an RCE is that the game is vulnerable to money laundering. Rules and such must be put in place so that it is not easy to participate in such activities that puts the game in serious jeopardy.

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It could be done officially signing a contract in MA's office, so no money laundering / fraud / other mentioned problems could arise, in fact the current situation is encouraging that kind of issues way more.

Aio said:

All this bullshit about it being an RCE therefore you can sell your avatar.
Tangibles are able to be sold in EU (skills, items, time).
And no, girts, I don't want you to shut up nor do I care if you pay people to be you, it's weird for sure, but then there's plenty of weirdos around. I just recommend that you don't bring more spotlights on your position as someone who 75% of the time (you do pay 3 people, right?) isn't... you.
Because I'm massively for banning accounts for illegal behaviour (defined by MA's ToU); as are your socmates and many other EU contemporaries. Walking on eggshells is probably the right phrase, depending on how MA decide to proceed going forward

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First, I don't pay people to be me. They cannot be me. They don't do the social aspect of the game just the mechanics. And seems like you do indeed care a lot. I don't believe in being silent on selective subjects or ignoring their existence. Imho if you cannot prevent something from happening (typically demand being there) and the subject not being completely unacceptable to society, legalize and control it. Not leave it in the gray area. This goes for many subjects in Entropia, including but not limited to:
* avatar sales
* playing for others
* "relative" healers
* the way tax system works
* weird workings of rare drops (waves, returning avatars getting good stuff, random walk by's getting good stuff)
* item hidden stats (enhancer break rate)
MA have stated before quite explicitly that playing for others won't be banned, but anyone doing it is responsible for their actions.
Second, the suggestion I made is not about transferring names/avatars. Just allowing to transfer all the skills (not including the attributes) from one name to another overwriting the recipient and taking decay. It would even not go against the quoted rule.

@ girtsn: out of MAs entry statement i would suggest that paying people to play your account is a worth a permanent ban...

Locked in

quite:
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Paying 950 % for esi and gettin 1050 % for skill ? - the tax from Auc?
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So for NVP comment, do some math! - AVA selling skill anyway is getting same 100% on skill both
ESI ~ 950% Skill @ 1050% but actually sell for less as AH fees are higher (5% of MU))
ESI 200 % Skill 300%

Most diff is for AVA buying paying less (losing ~ 1k% MU as next extraction is additional 10% loss )... = skill availability

Then ESI should be @ TT

Citation MA: "Investing in Your AVA" = reading as any RL equivalent should be able to Harvest under NORMAL same process , @ the moment there is 10% charge already+ also for withdrawing there are additional charge - what it was 4% (Never withdraw so far)

Why TT, as 10 PED min ESI rule also should be revoked or ESI lootable also for small mobs

This is the most hypocrital statment ever made by Mindark.

They are perfectly aware of all the avatars illegaly bought by some cybercoffe owner that lives next door of the office and his socmates, they are even allowed to compete event with more than one avatar and win multiple prizes for years, and still i dont see them locked or banned by any kind?

I wish MA made it easier to sell skills or ewen my whole avatar if i liked to. I not looking to do it anytime soon but if i had to do it for some reasson its not a good way as it is now.

MA would be correct to not allow and ban sales of avatars but that would be in the past.

Now we have account BOUND items. in a RCE (where everything should be sellable and tradable)

So how do u sell account bound items? =)

Skills still retain any value only because it's hard to sell them, most quitters don't bother selling them. Simplify it, drop more ESI, add them to TT - the market will become flooded with skills.

helena said:

This is the most hypocrital statment ever made by Mindark.

They are perfectly aware of all the avatars illegaly bought by some cybercoffe owner that lives next door of the office and his socmates, they are even allowed to compete event with more than one avatar and win multiple prizes for years, and still i dont see them locked or banned by any kind?

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If this is true, it should be campaigned for a boycott of all high-profile events unless and until they change their ways. Even if it means only those undeserving get prizes in the meantime, the company's reputation will take significant damage. If it's not true... outrageous as it sounds, we better be damn sure. The bashing routine is just as tempting.

San said:

If this is true, it should be campaigned for a boycott of all high-profile events unless and until they change their ways. Even if it means only those undeserving get prizes in the meantime, the company's reputation will take significant damage. If it's not true... outrageous as it sounds, we better be damn sure. The bashing routine is just as tempting.

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If u knew the truth. Some of them are using multiple uber avatars on same events to win multiple prizes on same event.. I really think Ma is perfectly aware of it, but in case they are not i sent them a reminder, since they did that statment

Oh look, another aftermath of the "We have rules but we don't enforce them" philosophy.

The biggest problem EU has by far, that is slowly corroding away everything that is (or was) nice.

@ girtsn: dont worry new uber wannabies will flame all and spread bs just because:
1. They dont agree with you gaming policy
2. You are better (haters gonna hate)

Resnis said:

quite:
---------
Paying 950 % for esi and gettin 1050 % for skill ? - the tax from Auc?
----------

So for NVP comment, do some math! - AVA selling skill anyway is getting same 100% on skill both
ESI ~ 950% Skill @ 1050% but actually sell for less as AH fees are higher (5% of MU))
ESI 200 % Skill 300%

Most diff is for AVA buying paying less (losing ~ 1k% MU as next extraction is additional 10% loss )... = skill availability

Then ESI should be @ TT

Citation MA: "Investing in Your AVA" = reading as any RL equivalent should be able to Harvest under NORMAL same process , @ the moment there is 10% charge already+ also for withdrawing there are additional charge - what it was 4% (Never withdraw so far)

Why TT, as 10 PED min ESI rule also should be revoked or ESI lootable also for small mobs

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So you want to crash both a good income source for hunters (esi) for the relative benefit of making it pointless to sell skills because they are now so cheap. 250 ped of skill being worth 275 ped (110%) is not useful to anyone.

Additionally, the added benefit of skills being expensive is it creates a pay barrier to the game. I know a lot of people are for making everything as cheap as possible, but if skills are so cheap that you can get to level 100 for a couple hundred dollars, that means a day 1 noob can use weapons with 40pec/second cost rates.. They won't be prepared for this level of expenditure and it would create a negative rep for the game.

If buying skills to level 100 is as expensive as now, it filters out to only those who can afford that level of cost.

The esi system works well. People forget there have been other similar systems before this. People saying it's too expensive to chip out and the returns are low - how much do you think your avatars are actually worth? Unlike most items they are in unlimited supply and everyone can gain skills.

Aio said:

They won't be prepared for this level of expenditure and it would create a negative rep for the game.

If buying skills to level 100 is as expensive as now, it filters out to only those who can afford that level of cost.

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Using that same flawed logic, if it was cheaper to chip out, (i.e. if esis were in the TT in addition to the nanocubes or perhaps as something that could be traded in in exchange for all those explosives being created these days), it'd be cheaper for those n00bs that became uber through chipping up to chip out again without bleeding massive amounts of peds in the process... so that neg rep wouldn't be so bad...

Aio said:

So you want to crash both a good income source for hunters (esi) for the relative benefit of making it pointless to sell skills because they are now so cheap. 250 ped of skill being worth 275 ped (110%) is not useful to anyone.

Additionally, the added benefit of skills being expensive is it creates a pay barrier to the game. I know a lot of people are for making everything as cheap as possible, but if skills are so cheap that you can get to level 100 for a couple hundred dollars, that means a day 1 noob can use weapons with 40pec/second cost rates.. They won't be prepared for this level of expenditure and it would create a negative rep for the game.

If buying skills to level 100 is as expensive as now, it filters out to only those who can afford that level of cost.

The esi system works well. People forget there have been other similar systems before this. People saying it's too expensive to chip out and the returns are low - how much do you think your avatars are actually worth? Unlike most items they are in unlimited supply and everyone can gain skills.

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It goes further then that..

Back in the good old days.. there was another use to skills then dps, it was called DPP
It was much more important then then dps couse there where no L weapons.
Mobs had less regen etc so the trick was to hunt on your level..
Nowadays, you don't need to chip to lvl 100, lvl 45 is enough to use decent L guns, sure the higher the lvl the more options & chance to get more dpp but in general you'd have to chip in less then b4.

if it ma want to make money make a fee 500 dollars to change to another person and give a new name to the accounts all paid by the person buying paid to ma and then tranfer to the person selling making them wait 50 days to get paid like withdraw now

or like other said drop more esi or put them in the tt machine if crafter can craft from the tt machine whit not buy esi there also why would we need to pay markup on chipping out

i know if i could chip it cheap i would my 200k plus skills i wouldnt have to hang around here

AIO..... READ the message before commenting

I posted in sample that actual Skill worth in this sample is just +100% of ESI (simplified this time) not 110%
not 1.1k % MU buyer is paying....

and Yes... also small amounts should be extractable w/o loss of ESI

Resnis said:

AIO..... READ the message before commenting

I posted in sample that actual Skill worth in this sample is just +100% of ESI (simplified this time) not 110%
not 1.1k % MU buyer is paying....

and Yes... also small amounts should be extractable w/o loss of ESI

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I read and fully understood.

If esi has no markup value (esi at tt as bolded in your first post) then skills will not have +100% markup they will have much less. As the availability of skills will be more

Making esi cheap makes skills (relatively) even cheaper.

Aio said:

I read and fully understood.

If esi has no markup value (esi at tt as bolded in your first post) then skills will not have +100% markup they will have much less. As the availability of skills will be more

Making esi cheap makes skills (relatively) even cheaper.

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I don't get why this is difficult to understand. They must not teach economics anymore.

If left to many people on this forum, this game would have no more markup.. ever.

They should never ban anyone for buying/selling an avatar because obviously it has been done and they have done nothing about it, it would be unequal/selective enforcement of the rules.

Xen said:

They should never ban anyone for buying/selling an avatar because obviously it has been done and they have done nothing about it, it would be unequal/selective enforcement of the rules.

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History tells us unequal selective dev pals or whatever u call it goes on a lot not just in setting up mule or shared accouns, etc. ... so it's the same here as anywhere

.

Has anyone considered the effect if they did openly allow accounts to be sold?

They would legally be assigning value to accounts. The EULA was recently changed to only guarantee 6 months of deposits in the event of shutting down. The liability of having all of these accounts valuated, for MA would be pretty immense, and legally likely put them into quick debt if they ever had to pay back whatever was valued in total.

As well, everyone, including MA would now have tax nightmares, if the accounts have a value, you better believe the tax man will want you to declare it, and valuate it all. As it stands, accounts are not actual assets, we have no legal authority over them except by use. There is no value until it is returned in cash.

A lot of issues regarding account sales behind the scenes, frankly I think its easier to keep it as is, because I fear that any sort of change like that would regulate the game for taxes and thus kill the game and value of everyone.

its the same as the mm gun that was worth 300k a few year back now 50k to 100k whit the cost to ma tt value the other cost is the players

ma is only dept is the tt value that it that all

you can have 1millon skills tt value may be worth 100 dollars in tt

if skill now are worth 1100% whit 1000% esi that 100 % to the seller if the esi were to go to the tt machine baught from it the esi would sell for more that 100% garentied ppoeple could get rpobly 5 time what they get now in selling skills