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why use anything else?

Zorander said:
EST (Earth Shock Trooper) armor gives a 60% bonus to crit damage when wearing the full set. But it's (L) and expensive... hence the desire for zero defense decay.
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yep exactly what he is using. although u could use mod viceroy as well nowadays, which has close to the same impact, depending on gun with the advantage of being usable on nearly any mob as its UL. negative sides are the price and that its acc bound
 
Zorander said:
EST (Earth Shock Trooper) armor gives a 60% bonus to crit damage when wearing the full set. But it's (L) and expensive... hence the desire for zero defense decay.
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Ahh I see. So the idea is that the extra crit damage is basically free damage that the loot algorithm does not compensate for. The key being to drop the mobs before they hit you so you aren't wasting ped decaying your expensive armor set.

While it all makes sense, it still could be causation by correlation. Recall that Black Ceasar was in TT profit on his massive Kerb quest (intuition log) using no armor and a MF chip, which with an imp Ares (and eventually mod) was far below the alleged "eco threshold" needed for TT profit.

All of these types of threads are really interesting, but for me they typically create more questions than they answer.
 
Detritus said:
While it all makes sense, it still could be causation by correlation. Recall that Black Ceasar was in TT profit on his massive Kerb quest (intuition log) using no armor and a MF chip, which with an imp Ares (and eventually mod) was far below the alleged "eco threshold" needed for TT profit.
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Eco is certainly not the only way to profit in this game, or especially in hunting. It is one way though and perhaps the easiest to understand.

As mentioned before, being eco is a relative term. My guess is that Black Ceasar is above the average eco on kerbs and his cost per kill is a lot lower than others hunting the same mob. This combined with long runs that helps him collect multipliers that he has contributed to is most likely his key to success.
 
Detritus said:
While it all makes sense, it still could be causation by correlation. Recall that Black Ceasar was in TT profit on his massive Kerb quest (intuition log) using no armor and a MF chip, which with an imp Ares (and eventually mod) was far below the alleged "eco threshold" needed for TT profit.

All of these types of threads are really interesting, but for me they typically create more questions than they answer.
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Eco threshold isn't what it seems.. EU is competitive. There are noobs running around on kerbs with 2.8dpp or less. He's simply winning ped from having higher eco than the majority of other players on kerbs. Further, caly mobs build loot, many players do not have the patience to grind one mob and keep shooting so they don't lose the ped they've already pumped into hunting that mob. So 2-3 people lose 100 ped and leave, then he hofs for 500 ped and gets their ped lost to the pool (something like that). Messi isn't wrong when he recites "you only lose when you stop shooting."

But maybe this is all speculation. Regardless, I would never leave a caly mob while I was down and go shoot something else. Same reason I'll never stop mining when I'm in a deficit.
 
Harmony. said:
Because laser weapons are for girls, real men use BLP weapons (or so i keep hearing).
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I thought it was girls use laser, yuppies(is it hipsters now?) use blp, and men use blades?
 
Rocket192 said:
Further, caly mobs build loot, many players do not have the patience to grind one mob and keep shooting so they don't lose the ped they've already pumped into hunting that mob. So 2-3 people lose 100 ped and leave, then he hofs for 500 ped and gets their ped lost to the pool (something like that). Messi isn't wrong when he recites "you only lose when you stop shooting."

But maybe this is all speculation. Regardless, I would never leave a caly mob while I was down and go shoot something else. Same reason I'll never stop mining when I'm in a deficit.
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Nice theory, but I dont believe in it.
What you suggest is that each mob has it's own private loot pool. Otherwise a mob couldnt build its own loot.

I think that's nonsense.

Whenever I'm down I rub my budha's belly which sits on my desk. And then I always global after that. Works like a charm!
Btw, that budha figurine is for sale. For just 25k ped it's yours! So buy your luck now!

.....or is that also superstition?
 
narfi said:
I thought it was girls use laser, yuppies(is it hipsters now?) use blp, and men use blades?
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Real men use their fists. blades are for ninja wussies!
 
wizz said:
Nice theory, but I dont believe in it.
What you suggest is that each mob has it's own private loot pool. Otherwise a mob couldnt build its own loot.

I think that's nonsense.

Whenever I'm down I rub my budha's belly which sits on my desk. And then I always global after that. Works like a charm!
Btw, that budha figurine is for sale. For just 25k ped it's yours! So buy your luck now!

.....or is that also superstition?
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No not individual mobs, but servers and the pool as a whole do appear to build. But I did say it was speculation. But to ignore it otherwise would infer that mob choice is irrelevant in terms of TT returns. I do know that resource choice in mining absolutely affects long term TT return, but that is through a different mechanism than hunting.

However, kerbs drop high TT weapons when they hof despite having such low hp... it could just be related to the type of mob loot. All speculation of course.
 
Detritus said:
Ahh I see. So the idea is that the extra crit damage is basically free damage that the loot algorithm does not compensate for. The key being to drop the mobs before they hit you so you aren't wasting ped decaying your expensive armor set.

While it all makes sense, it still could be causation by correlation. Recall that Black Ceasar was in TT profit on his massive Kerb quest (intuition log) using no armor and a MF chip, which with an imp Ares (and eventually mod) was far below the alleged "eco threshold" needed for TT profit.

All of these types of threads are really interesting, but for me they typically create more questions than they answer.
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Because he grinds for hours on end :).

Hatten said:
Eco is certainly not the only way to profit in this game, or especially in hunting. It is one way though and perhaps the easiest to understand.

As mentioned before, being eco is a relative term. My guess is that Black Ceasar is above the average eco on kerbs and his cost per kill is a lot lower than others hunting the same mob. This combined with long runs that helps him collect multipliers that he has contributed to is most likely his key to success.
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All correct assumptions, he has high dpp and decent dps for that mobs health without much overkill generated. Keep in mind that high DPP does not mean squat if the guy next to you has a comparable setup with more dps. If so you will definitely not be winning out, unless you are lucky or grind for longer than he does you may have a chance, but is not guaranteed.

Rocket192 said:
Eco threshold isn't what it seems.. EU is competitive. There are noobs running around on kerbs with 2.8dpp or less. He's simply winning ped from having higher eco than the majority of other players on kerbs. Further, caly mobs build loot, many players do not have the patience to grind one mob and keep shooting so they don't lose the ped they've already pumped into hunting that mob. So 2-3 people lose 100 ped and leave, then he hofs for 500 ped and gets their ped lost to the pool (something like that). Messi isn't wrong when he recites "you only lose when you stop shooting."

But maybe this is all speculation. Regardless, I would never leave a caly mob while I was down and go shoot something else. Same reason I'll never stop mining when I'm in a deficit.
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What Rocket is trying to say where I have highlighted is very simple.

Every mob regardless of where they are spawned on the same planet, can keep a small record of the amount cycled. This in turn allows the game to know and trigger when a large drop can potentially drop.

Keep in mind that, high activity may not equal to high turnover, but in the case of high turnover, it can tell the system to allow for a larger multiplier to drop at random, such as 10k Argo Young etc.

I know personally that Black Caesar has only hit 1 such multiplier at the very start of his conquest and has since missed several larger than avg drops while grinding kerbs to his disappointment.

But just remember that those drops are outside of the normal loot pool, so even if missed can still maintain his TT returns through sheer grinding and consistency.
 
M Rufen Power said:
What Rocket is trying to say where I have highlighted is very simple.

Every mob regardless of where they are spawned on the same planet, can keep a small record of the amount cycled. This in turn allows the game to know and trigger when a large drop can potentially drop.
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Again I have to ask. is this your theory or is this a written fact?

Lots of people write their theories down as plain facts.
I want to separate the facts from theory but it's quite hard this way.
 
wizz said:
Again I have to ask. is this your theory or is this a written fact?

Lots of people write their theories down as plain facts.
I want to separate the facts from theory but it's quite hard this way.
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Facts are impossible to produce without MA stating something is the way it is... We can only observe, speculate and record.
 
wizz said:
Again I have to ask. is this your theory or is this a written fact?

Lots of people write their theories down as plain facts.
I want to separate the facts from theory but it's quite hard this way.
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You are completely right that this is perception bias and his own guessings :)


In this thread Ive seen so many "alternative facts" and everybody seems to KNOW how it all works :D
 
Rocket192 said:
Further, caly mobs build loot,
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Implying that each planet has a different loot system? It seems unlikely to me, since the loot system is controlled by Planet Partners and not the individual planets. IIRC, PP has even officially stated that the planets have no control over the loot system. Not saying that you're wrong about mobs building loot, just seems like it must be universal or not at all.

wizz said:
Again I have to ask. is this your theory or is this a written fact?
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We're talking about loot mechanics, the "facts" of which are only known by MA. Everything in this thread is theory.
 
wizz said:
Again I have to ask. is this your theory or is this a written fact?

Lots of people write their theories down as plain facts.
I want to separate the facts from theory but it's quite hard this way.
Click to expand...

Has anyone here ever heard of a spreadsheet before or even know how to use one perhaps?

Data entry and observation are your best tools, as MA will not say how loot system operates.
 
Rocket192 said:
Facts are impossible to produce without MA stating something is the way it is... We can only observe, speculate and record.
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Aha! Someone who has brains and knows how to apply it in-game!
 
Detritus said:
We're talking about loot mechanics, the "facts" of which are only known by MA. Everything in this thread is theory.
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Yes, that's what I think as well.
The problem I have with this is that many people write things like it is a fact and that they base their advises on these pseudo facts.

Sure, advises are given with the best intentions, but if they're based on speculations, then what are they actually worth?

I think I'll just stick with rubbing the budha's belly.:wtg:

...that works just as bad as any other advice I've read :laugh:
 
wizz said:
Yes, that's what I think as well.
The problem I have with this is that many people write things like it is a fact and that they base their advises on these pseudo facts.

Sure, advises are given with the best intentions, but if they're based on speculations, then what are they actually worth?

I think I'll just stick with rubbing the budha's belly.:wtg:

...that works just as bad as any other advice I've read :laugh:
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U can create facts by proving theory...

for someone who has been on this forum since 2005 you sound very new
 
silentkill234 said:
U can create facts by proving theory...

for someone who has been on this forum since 2005 you sound very new
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yes, but the problem is that everybody seems to have a proven theory :scratch2:

And for someone who has been here since 2005 I might sound new, but maybe that's because I hear something different each year. So each time it sounds new.

So I'll keep rubbing the budha instead.
 
wizz said:
Yes, that's what I think as well.
The problem I have with this is that many people write things like it is a fact and that they base their advises on these pseudo facts.

Sure, advises are given with the best intentions, but if they're based on speculations, then what are they actually worth?
Click to expand...


Just because a theory remains unproven does not mean it isn't useful. The Higgs Boson was an important part of the Standard Model for 40 years before it was actually proven to exist.

Some of the speculations given here are from people who have made controlled and measured calculations over long periods of time. The results may be open to interpretation, but the data is still valuable on its own.
 
Detritus said:
Some of the speculations given here are from people who have made controlled and measured calculations over long periods of time.
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yes, "some" are definitely!
And "some" are not. How can we see which "some" are good and which not?
 
narfi said:
I thought it was girls use laser, yuppies(is it hipsters now?) use blp, and men use blades?
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and real players use whips, clubs, and whatever the hell else you can grab that will cause some damage.
 
Rocket192 said:
When you're done with that game can you get the 60 euros back out?

my guess is no.

different rules apply here.. you said it yourself.. it's an "investment" not a purchase.
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Uh I think there was some kind of withdrawal fee..I don't remember how much.
 
Me Really Never said:
i guess thats a trick question. because you can just try to redo the tests he made and compare results...
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well, even if you would try and redo, results will be different because luck still is a factor in this game.
...at least according to my loot theories.
 
wizz said:
well, even if you would try and redo, results will be different because luck still is a factor in this game.
...at least according to my loot theories.
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Luck is a factor yes but during a long test that factor will be minimized, Rufen, Black Caesar and 5$ logs proves eco as contributing towards good longterm results.
 
Hatten said:
Luck is a factor yes but during a long test that factor will be minimized, Rufen, Black Caesar and 5$ logs proves eco as contributing towards good longterm results.
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Someone else who uses their brain :wise: +rep.

This is my 5300 post!!!
 
Hatten said:
Luck is a factor yes but during a long test that factor will be minimized, Rufen, Black Caesar and 5$ logs proves eco as contributing towards good longterm results.
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And even MA themselves have stated before that eco means a lot..

But guys you are just rubbing the buddha's belly! Give him a fact..:laugh::laugh:
 
Blink said:
Uh I think there was some kind of withdrawal fee..I don't remember how much.
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Yeah... $10.

The withdrawal fee is a whopping $10.


Another note, eco makes a big difference according to numbers. But it doesn't mean it's necessary to be successful and have fun.

These arguments and theories are all spun around a misconception that everyone has the same goals when playing this game.
 


Looted this with PBR-20. not sure i would of even looted a small ESI with a high economy weapon. MU will cover many losses!
 
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