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Question: Where all ESI?

R

Romulluss

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Antonius Romulluss Martins
I only see 1 ESI for sale at Auction, whats happen?
 
ppl bought them.... ? :cool:
 
In grinders storage like always :)
 
Maybe someone bought up everything available and is hoarding.

Or someone needs alot to sell skills (one uber selling skills is pretty much enough to drain the market of all the ESI for a while), lol.
 
Maybe MA is noticing the ever more popular sell out threads.
So it only makes sense to make it a bit harder to do so by lowering the esi threshold? :rolleyes:
 
Dmatrix said:
Maybe MA is noticing the ever more popular sell out threads.
So it only makes sense to make it a bit harder to do so by lowering the esi threshold? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this seems to be the case, what a lame business model...
 
combo22 said:
Unfortunately this seems to be the case, what a lame business model...
Click to expand...

There is nothing abnormal with ESI right now. Like always, several people are selling out skills, and someone foolishly bought up every ESI, including the overpriced ones, except for one.

If MindArk didn't limit the amount of ESI that dropped, they would eventually have almost no value, which would mean that they would be nearly worthless when you loot them.

Because this topic frequently sparks "sky is falling" theories... If you actually think the whole thing through, people selling skills actually results in a net positive for MA, creating more deposits than it does withdraws.

For example: Lets say a hunter loots a 50 PED TT ESI valued at 1000%, he will then sell it for 500 PED and probably pay an auction fee. That PED he just got for the sale of the ESI will generally be cycled back into the game economy in some way. Meanwhile, I come along and buy that ESI for 500 PED and load it up with a skill that's worth 1500%, this will result in a 45 PED skill chip that's worth 675 PED. I then pay an auction fee and sell it. The 500 PED that I used to buy the ESI already was part of other funds that were going to be withdrawn anyway. By buying an ESI and then using it to make a skill chip, in this example only increased the amount I can withdraw by 175 PED. Meanwhile, someone else will have to deposit 675 PED to buy it. This math doesn't even account for all of the auction fees generated.

MindArk makes money when you earn skills and MindArk makes money when you sell skills.

So, in summary, the sky is not falling today and the business model, with the way that it is, ensures long-term survival of the Entropia Universe.
 
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People bought all ESI... Not chiping skills and holding ESI :D You guys before posting like that go and see sales of ESI and how that decreased during last 10 years. sales went down 10 times, while price went up... I got thread about that - https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?291354-ESI-drop-rates here yo ucan see graph of sales and price... I bet its MA, not players doing that...
 
HardWrath said:
There is nothing abnormal with ESI right now. Like always, several people are selling out skills, and someone foolishly bought up every ESI, including the overpriced ones, except for one.

If MindArk didn't limit the amount of ESI that dropped, they would eventually have almost no value, which would mean that they would be nearly worthless when you loot them.

Because this topic frequently sparks "sky is falling" theories, if you actually think the whole thing through, people selling skills actually results in a net positive for MA, creating more deposits than it does withdraws.

For example: Lets say a hunter loots a 50 PED TT ESI valued at 1000%, he will then sell it for 500 PED and probably pay an auction fee. That PED he just got for the sale of the ESI will generally be cycled back into the game economy in some way. Meanwhile, I come along and buy that ESI for 500 PED and load it up with a skill that's worth 1500%, this will result in a 45 PED skill chip that's worth 675 PED. I then pay an auction fee and sell it. The 500 PED that I used to buy the ESI already was part of other funds that were going to be withdrawn anyway. By buying an ESI and then using it to make a skill chip, in this example only increased the amount I can withdraw by 175 PED. Meanwhile, someone else will have to deposit 675 PED to buy it. This math doesn't even account for all of the auction fees generated.

MindArk makes money when you earn skills and MindArk makes money when you sell skills.

So, in summary, the sky is not falling today and the business model, with the way that it is, ensures long-term survival of the Entropia Universe.
Click to expand...

I understand and I agree, mostly with you, but it seems MA don't think the same.
ESI at 1000% or over is just to much, ESI market price used to be in 600-800% rage for years and it was just fine, there were more looted and more people could sell skills, now at 1000% some skills are just not worth chipping out.
It's better for everybody to have ESI at 600% and have 2X as many looted than as having them at 1000% and hard to find.

What MA don't understand is that is someone is leaving and want to sell skills, needs to find another one to take his place, we can't just sell skills to TT and create a pressure on MA.
 
1. Item is important.
2. Item is high in demand.
3. Item is a rare drop.
4. Many middle-end game players leaving game.

This is just business.

Probably some group of sellers working together to get this done.
 
Nunoko said:
1. Item is important.
2. Item is high in demand.
3. Item is a rare drop.
4. Many middle-end game players leaving game.

This is just business.

Probably some group of sellers working together to get this done.
Click to expand...

A bit off topic but.... Why middle-end game players are leaving ?
 
combo22 said:
I understand and I agree, mostly with you, but it seems MA don't think the same.
ESI at 1000% or over is just to much, ESI market price used to be in 600-800% rage for years and it was just fine, there were more looted and more people could sell skills, now at 1000% some skills are just not worth chipping out.
It's better for everybody to have ESI at 600% and have 2X as many looted than as having them at 1000% and hard to find.

What MA don't understand is that is someone is leaving and want to sell skills, needs to find another one to take his place, we can't just sell skills to TT and create a pressure on MA.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that if MA were to allow enough ESI to drop in order to bring the market values of them down to 600-800% then the prices of skills would also drop. To the end user there would be almost no advantage. In fact, in that scenario, other people (hunters) would create threads complaining about the low value of ESI.

ESI at 1100% and Rifle at 1500% is the same to someone selling out as ESI at 800% and Rifle at 1200%... in both examples, the difference between the ESI and the skill is 400% and that difference is the true value of your skills. However with low value ESI, the ESI looters (hunters) are hurt the most.

The real problem comes in when the value of your skills are too close to the value of ESI. The amount of people buying skills versus the amount of people selling skills almost never matches up. Its simple supply and demand and both are never constant. In order to create market stability in pricing, MindArk has to control the supply of skills. The ONLY way to do that is to constrict the supply of ESI, which in turn limits the amount of available skills, which then forces the value of skills to go up.

Thankfully most skills now have a market value that exceeds ESI value enough to be worth chipping out and selling. This has not always been the case.
 
limit the drop = more profit for the poeple that hord them

ah there always the poeple that can sell there account that is ma favorites a good thing the big unber they let the sale go true the exi price would be 10k mu
 
madnar said:
A bit off topic but.... Why middle-end game players are leaving ?
Click to expand...

Damn middle-end game players been leaving for last 10 years!
 
Karmic said:
Damn middle-end game players been leaving for last 10 years!
Click to expand...

And coming back like boomerangs, either as their old ava, or new one(s) to try and reset their avatar luck :laugh:
 
Nunoko said:
1. Item is important.
2. Item is high in demand.
3. Item is a rare drop.
4. Many middle-end game players leaving game.

This is just business.

Probably some group of sellers working together to get this done.
Click to expand...

Item is important, thats why it become rare? :D
Item is high in demand - very low supply
Item is a rare drop - drop rate decreased by a lot during last years. I did talk with friends who where looting 5-10 ESI each day, now they are lucky if looting that in a month.
Many middle-end game players leaving game - so there is no people to loot ESI? Or how to understand that? :D Because if you trying to say that lot of people leaving, so buying ESI and using them, then where are all skills for sale? :D

madnar said:
A bit off topic but.... Why middle-end game players are leaving ?
Click to expand...

Low/mediu/high level people leaving. New coming. Old coming back. People are changing. Its normal.

Nunoko said:
I mostly think because the annual reports show no promise of Entropia Universe ever going to be better.
Click to expand...

Or maybe because global warming? :D
 
Buying and holding (L) items for the long term is foolish and more often than not will generate big PED losses. The ESI values will soon go down. If you are holding, better sell fast.

esi.jpg
 
HardWrath said:
Buying and holding (L) items for the long term is foolish and more often than not will generate big PED losses. The ESI values will soon go down. If you are holding, better sell fast.

esi.jpg
Click to expand...

when hoarding gets out of control MA steps in... just like with pyrite before core.

i suspect the same will happen with ESI
 
Rocket192 said:
when hoarding gets out of control MA steps in... just like with pyrite before core.

i suspect the same will happen with ESI
Click to expand...

I really don't think there is any reason to believe that someone is hoarding ESI. There is zero evidence to support that theory. Hoarding things like ESI is a recipe for massive PED losses. It carries tremendous risk, the reward is minimal and doesn't match the risk. The correct way to resell ESI in a profitable way is to buy low and immediately sell for full market value. There are no shortage of times when hunters need PED right now and cant wait for auctions.

Items like this are a big reason why I stand in Twin Peaks with PED ready. Its why a lot of people do. Believe me, there are far more financially attractive opportunities in EU than attempting to hoard ESI.

As someone who is selling skills myself and checking the ESI markets daily, buying ESI nearly daily, and after having been a reseller/trader for 11+ years in EU, I see zero evidence that someone is hoarding ESI. None.

Several people along with myself have been buying a lot of ESI. I have very recently gone through a few thousand PED TT of ESI and have 7,000 PED to go. To put this into perspective, only 15K PED TT of ESI have sold on auction in the last month. Some people with higher skills than me also are selling skills.
 
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How many is hording?
 
HardWrath said:
Keep in mind that if MA were to allow enough ESI to drop in order to bring the market values of them down to 600-800% then the prices of skills would also drop. To the end user there would be almost no advantage. In fact, in that scenario, other people (hunters) would create threads complaining about the low value of ESI.

ESI at 1100% and Rifle at 1500% is the same to someone selling out as ESI at 800% and Rifle at 1200%... in both examples, the difference between the ESI and the skill is 400% and that difference is the true value of your skills. However with low value ESI, the ESI looters (hunters) are hurt the most.

The real problem comes in when the value of your skills are too close to the value of ESI. The amount of people buying skills versus the amount of people selling skills almost never matches up. Its simple supply and demand and both are never constant. In order to create market stability in pricing, MindArk has to control the supply of skills. The ONLY way to do that is to constrict the supply of ESI, which in turn limits the amount of available skills, which then forces the value of skills to go up.

Thankfully most skills now have a market value that exceeds ESI value enough to be worth chipping out and selling. This has not always been the case.
Click to expand...


I don't agree, I'm ready to bet that if ESI price will go down to 600-800% range, most of the skills will follow, the profit margins will remain the mostly the same, maybe for some skills will be a bit better but mostly it will be the same.
Hunters would not complain because it's more fun to loot more ESIs and get at least same market value than looting just one now and then.
Also if the drop rate on ESI would double the price would not be just half as it is, it's just to much demand for them and price will still be high, maybe around 800-900% if droop rate would be double.
Cheaper ESI would attract/allow more, new, people to use this feature.
 
combo22 said:
I don't agree, I'm ready to bet that if ESI price will go down to 600-800% range, most of the skills will follow, the profit margins will remain the mostly the same, maybe for some skills will be a bit better but mostly it will be the same.
Hunters would not complain because it's more fun to loot more ESIs and get at least same market value than looting just one now and then.
Also if the drop rate on ESI would double the price would not be just half as it is, it's just to much demand for them and price will still be high, maybe around 800-900% if droop rate would be double.
Cheaper ESI would attract/allow more, new, people to use this feature.
Click to expand...

I can see 900% in the near future but not much less. Auction history for the last couple of years doesn't really support anything under 900% for any length of time.

As long as I'm buying ESI anyway, which will be a couple of months at least, i can guarantee you that ESI prices will not fall under 900%. The is because Ill buy everything under 1000%. There are plenty of others who will do the same. The market would have to get completely flooded and that wont happen.

By that time, we will be getting into Migration which is always a surge of market activity.
 
HardWrath said:
I can see 900% in the near future but not much less. Auction history for the last couple of years doesn't really support anything under 900% for any length of time.

As long as I'm buying ESI anyway, which will be a couple of months at least, i can guarantee you that ESI prices will not fall under 900%. The is because Ill buy everything under 1000%. There are plenty of others who will do the same. The market would have to get completely flooded and that wont happen.

By that time, we will be getting into Migration which is always a surge of market activity.
Click to expand...

That's my view also, even if there will be as many as ten times the ESIs there are now in the market I don't think price will fall under 600%.
 
HardWrath said:
I can see 900% in the near future but not much less. Auction history for the last couple of years doesn't really support anything under 900% for any length of time.

As long as I'm buying ESI anyway, which will be a couple of months at least, i can guarantee you that ESI prices will not fall under 900%. The is because Ill buy everything under 1000%. There are plenty of others who will do the same. The market would have to get completely flooded and that wont happen.

By that time, we will be getting into Migration which is always a surge of market activity.
Click to expand...

The price of ESI will go wherever MA wants it to, if they feel like moving it there. This is not the real world.
 
Xen said:
The price of ESI will go wherever MA wants it to, if they feel like moving it there. This is not the real world.
Click to expand...

You are right but I think you would agree that MA probably doesn't want the price of ESI to fall dramatically.
 
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