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Entropia Universe 15.14.0 Release Notes

Just sayin...

Any chance that this "extended" revive timer was implemented to remove that "PVP drama" whereby people try to "wear down" their enemies' PED wallets instead of fighting them?

Just sayin... of course.:confused:
 
duncis said:
You clearly have no idea how bad the botting actually is. I wont go into details on this thread because everything is always removed but feel free to check my blog post about botting (link below in my sig).

I think this is welcoming attempt to combat the issue. It can be frustrating of-course. And I myself hate that I have to click revive after 10sec timer (loved the first version where there was no timer at all) but in general it is a nice attempt. Hopefully it can be improved to keep the function, but minimise impact on fair players.

/Soko
Click to expand...

No one minds clicking revive after 10 seconds. Everyone minds clicking revive after 20, 40, 80 and 160 seconds. Having a click to revive feature is more then enough and is a nice implementation if that is actually to stop some botters. However there doesn't need to be an extending penalty that makes the game worse and strangles new growth.

These changes have nothing to do with Botters though. Death penalty is a player restriction not a botter restriction. Bot's don't care about waiting. Players do
:laugh:
 
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sawachika said:
Any chance that this "extended" revive timer was implemented to remove that "PVP drama" whereby people try to "wear down" their enemies' PED wallets instead of fighting them?

Just sayin... of course.:confused:
Click to expand...


MA has no focus on PvP or desire to save PED of people that do engage in PvP.
 
The Abomb said:
Bot's don't care about waiting. Players do
Click to expand...
There you have a point indeed. If bots can simply get adapted to detecting the need for an additional click, then the whole measure achieves nothing.
 
The Abomb said:
Everyone minds clicking revive after 20, 40, 80 and 160 seconds.
Click to expand...

Don't die that often then. Fight something your own size. This is what the devs had in mind, I think, but also with an eye on the botters. This one is a good change.
 
the-unknown said:
Sure, new players will not know the difference. They will just wonder why this game got this weird "extended timer" compared to other games they play. And maybe since there does not seem to be any good rational for such a timer, maybe this game just has other weirdness as well and may as well decide it's not worth trying it out for an extended time.

Can you imagine a newbie, logs in, gets some newbie gear, runs around, trying out stuff by going around shooting stuff. Very very soon the newbie will notice that he/she is waiting for alot of time to revive, compared to the amount of time actually spent shooting stuff, exploring stuff. And guess what, if he msgs in global chat asking about why this is the case, most people will see OooOoOo and will not know what is he asking. And the newbie may decide people dont want to answer simple questions .....

You see how it can go?




So assuming the rational for extended timer is bots, lets make normal players pay for more gear so that they can play like "normal"? What does a bot care if it takes 10 secs or 10 minutes to revive? All that the bot coder has to do is set the timer for revive (depending on how often / soon death happens) and do actions after that. I don't see the revive timer as a hinderance for any half decent cod


Yeap, again, pay more to get more gear to get the same level of game play.

Anyway, they will have to fix one other thing.

I was hunting huons, at Storm's Keep, in Arkadia. Was killed, run out of the revive, and got killed instantly again. The turrets only start to shoot mobs if there is a green dot in radar range. Sometimes the TP can be surrounded by 5-10 mobs and you running out gets you instakilled. While waiting for the 20 secs timer (got killed 2nd time within secs after all), I saw the turret killing the mobs in the revive outpost area.

So, ended up spending 30 secs for revive (10 secs for first revive), run out, instant death (20 secs for 2nd revive) while the mob was regenerating.
:mad:

Clear the area around revives from mobs - either have turrets always active, or have revive / TP area set as a no spawn zone / no mob for a range of 20m (or more, if mobs in that area have ranged attacks) or something.

On another note, I recall some shared mob events where the mob is actually at the revive area (at twin peaks for example), and people get killed, revive, and die instantly within secs of reviving. So, next time, such events, if you die, revive, and die again, after a couple of this revives happening, you are going to end up waiting a loooong time to revive.

Those events will be great in the future. NOT.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine MA sponsored events like "The Core" or MM, both with limited time for each instance. Think about time wasted reviving due to death for several reasons in there, like group of mob spawning at same time, or trying to kill "Boss Mob" (which tend to regen quickly) and running back to it through spawns that my kill you again (it happens), or the boss crits you a few times. If ppl think only the top ubers dominate these events now, they will surly have a lock on them going forward if this feature isn't removed.

This:
So assuming the rational for extended timer is bots, lets make normal players pay for more gear so that they can play like "normal"? What does a bot care if it takes 10 secs or 10 minutes to revive? All that the bot coder has to do is set the timer for revive (depending on how often / soon death happens) and do actions after that. I don't see the revive timer as a hindrance for any half decent cod

There has to be some other rational for this new feature that MA hasn't shared with us yet because this makes no sense. Not only will new participants find it strange and penalizing, but many ppl with low to mid skills trying to grow their avatars with limited budgets designed for game play and not the burden of maybe now having to modify their equipment.

The practice of team hunting on bigger mob with mixed skill lvl's will probably also suffer. No one wants to spend more time reviving than killing. Like it or not, this will be the result for the lessor skilled team members.

IMO, this new feature is unwarranted if it's purpose was to eradicate bot's. This will definitely have an impact on the gap between the upper class and the lower class and may result in EU skewed more toward the advantaged ubers than ever before.
 
San said:
There you have a point indeed. If bots can simply get adapted to detecting the need for an additional click, then the whole measure achieves nothing.
Click to expand...

sighlentz said:
So assuming the rational for extended timer is bots, lets make normal players pay for more gear so that they can play like "normal"? What does a bot care if it takes 10 secs or 10 minutes to revive? All that the bot coder has to do is set the timer for revive (depending on how often / soon death happens) and do actions after that. I don't see the revive timer as a hindrance for any half decent cod
Click to expand...

Whereas, I can see a difference between a bot program running endlessly respawning and it having to wait over 3 minutes after each death.

It would make it an economic waste of time for the botter (IMO)

Previously
1 min run, 1 min run, 1 min run, 1 min run, 1 min run, 1 min run etc (60 dodge/evade gains per hour)

Now
1 min run, 3 min wait, 1 min run, 3 min wait, 1 min run, 3 min wait etc (15 dodge/evade gains per hour)



It might go up to 5 min+ waits for obvious & persistent macros, has anyone tested beyond 3 minutes?
 
Evey said:
Fight something your own size. This is what the devs had in mind, I think
Click to expand...

If this is the case what is actually not that strange.
But imo it's just to stupid that MA has to try to protect those people :eyecrazy:
And ofc the probabilty to do something about bot's. (Not that it would help this way)

But also I just find it plain stupid that MA needs to do so secretly about this tweak.
Just give the reason in the release notes I would say.
Pfff how hard can it be to give that info, and avoid all those speculations that will end again in negative responds in the end.
 
Mega said:
Whereas, I can see a difference between a bot program running endlessly respawning and it having to wait over 3 minutes after each death.

It would make it an economic waste of time for the botter (IMO)
Click to expand...

LOL

For a botte it doesn´t relly matter, as very likely there will run different bots for different reasons the same time, while the botter himself does something more fun.

Speak as the PC runs anyways, it has no impact to the eco of the botting programm.

Only if the PC runs only for this one bot in EU, well then its economical fail, but very unlikely to be that way.

You can run WoW gold farm bot, Eve Online Miner bot, EU sweater or death revive bot, all the same time, while playing whatever you actually have fun to play.

So where is the economical loss for the botter ?
 
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remove the timer and instead code it so that the OK box to do the revive gets moved to random screen coordinates... that would stop bots more than this thing as it is now.

While at it, lower the counter for when you hit t and are still alive down from 60 to 30 seconds... or make it just 10 if you are in a city. Apartment owners like to hit t to get to the terminals instead of having to run down the televator, down a long corridor, around a building or 3, etc. just to get to the auction... or alternatively do as Rocktropia did with Calypso and put terminals and auctioneer on every floor of every apartment building. :)
 
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mastermesh said:
remove the timer and instead code it so that the OK box to do the revive gets moved to random screen coordinates... that would stop bots more than this thing as it is now.
Click to expand...

That also will not help.

Let's see if Ludvig can shed a light for the reason for this tweak ;)
 
Jan Universe said:
That also will not help.

Let's see if Ludvig can shed a light for the reason for this tweak ;)
Click to expand...

I suspect if he was allowed to, he would have done so already, without waiting for so many people to vent and let this negativity go on for so long.

I will not be surprised if they looking for a facesaving excuse to state / facesaving way of reversing this / just ignore this whole thing and not mention it at all, like it never happened (thats been the MO for alot of things they done anyway).
 
We are monitoring the feedback regarding the new revival changes closely, and adjustments may be made in future patches. Some more information about the changes will come soon.
 
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You can do like this - The Avatar who has the fap can only fap him/her self no one can fap other avatar. :wise:
 
Evey said:
Don't die that often then. Fight something your own size. This is what the devs had in mind, I think, but also with an eye on the botters. This one is a good change.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt you are serious with this comment at least hope you aren't. This won't stop Botters however it will stop player from playing. How is stopping growth of the game "A Good Change" ? I could see this increasing Botting so this argument on Botter protection is silly and a poor assumption that the reason they made this change is because of that.

Your recommendation is don't die that often? Is that a serious suggestion or you don't care? Bad game design is bad game design. This is the type of game that doesn't need any more penalties and has the highest turnover rate of any game.

I will make sure to take your suggestion to new players in Rookie chat who are trying to ask questions and all we see is. OOOoooooOOOOOoooOOOOo... If they manage to get a real question off before quitting your suggestion will be to them. Don't die so much? Ok. :eyecrazy:

This change is nothing more then a joke. How it was implemented was even more of one and won't be surprised if this summer we have all time low numbers of players coming back and new players joining. I started the game last year right before migration. No chance I would of kept playing this game with such a ridiculous death timer. Give a new player a chance. They are supposed to die a lot. Now they die a lot and decide to log off and say wow that Entropia game is terrible.

Don't think that is the good word of mouth we want as this game already carries some other bad word of mouth sayings.
 
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Ludvig|MindArk said:
We are monitoring the feedback regarding the new revival changes closely, and adjustments may be made in future patches. Some more information about the changes will come soon.
Click to expand...

Please also consider the vast majority of players who are happy with the change and haven't come to the forum to whine about it, not just the very small number of people who have made dozens of complaining posts.
 
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Ludvig|MindArk said:
Some more information about the changes will come soon.
Click to expand...

I know you can't help it Ludvig ;)
But please try to convince them that they sometimes could do alot better in release notes.
Do we wanna know about new features that bring cash to MA like new instances and events? (Yes ofc)
But just give some critical info about those stupid changes also, and keep the players who bring in the cash also happy.
We don't need info like Mob x drops this or that ofc ;)
It keeps amazing me why MA always let it come this far.

And ofc I personaly haven't died so far, most of the times that I die it's intentionally.
But I can imagine that I would hate it that I would be disabled for 3 minutes, or whatever how long it is.
 
Going in there now, and going to die several times to see for myself about this silly timer thing.
So don't accuse me for botting if you see me running into a spawn and die time after time :laugh:
It's called testing imo.
 
The Abomb said:
I highly doubt you are serious with this comment at least hope you aren't.
Click to expand...

I am very serious. Hunting the wrong creature is the main reason for people's frustration in the game, even if hunters with experience and even MA officials said it A GAZILLION times in the past - DON'T hunt big because you will loose. Always adapt your skills, gear and ped card to your activity in the game.

Another important reason for people leaving the game is bad advise... If you could please refrain from advising others in rookie channel, it would be amazing for the future of the game, thank you.

The Abomb said:
I will make sure to take your suggestion to new players in Rookie chat who are trying to ask questions ...
Click to expand...

A player that started 7-8 months ago, like yourself, should shoot more and debate the game less... IMO. We're all playing with the same rules. Rules are changing, mostly for the better - that's what everyone wants, for the game to be successful. I'm still not very sure how this is affecting you, personally. Your favorite mob is Kerberos - followed by berry, merp, stuff like that - which is perfectly normal, but, how is the revival thing affecting you so much that you feel so strong about it? I'm a hunter 99.9%, I like to kill stuff and I try to get better at it every day. From my experience, you're pretty much wrong in all your points, regarding this. There should always be good reasons to improve yourself - more skills, better gear and be careful what you do here. Doing mistakes over and over, even if you were better advised, then asking others to pay for your mistakes, is not cool at all. Give it a year or two and you will see things pretty much the same way.
 
The logic of saying that people who are happy with the new revive timer will likely stay silent can only boost those who aren't to say so here, surely? Otherwise the argument is that they are silently happy about the change.

Therefore, in disagreement with that I guess I have to complain as well...

It does seem crazy to implement ANY measures which 'punish' the many (especially low-level players) just because of the few.
There must be a better way of dealing with botters, surely? (if that is the intention here)

I have long felt that time should be considered a commodity here, that much is true, but my feeling tends towards having higher-skilled ways of saving time, not 'wasting more playing time' as a baseline adjustment as is the case here.

Maybe you can pass that on Ludvig ... thanks :)
 
There are games with way more serious DPs (death penalties) out there, and they work fine. (The rules of this forum won't let me discuss specific examples)

The problem however is the level of griefing which is somewhat high in EU; all this is going to achieve is giving griefers more motivation and making mobtraining great again.

As for bots... these days, bots are better than humans at captcha and other routine tasks. :yup:
 
Ok, testing done.

1: 10 sec
2: 20 sec
3: 40 sec
4: 80 sec
5: 160 sec
6: 160 sec


No animals were harmed during the test :)


So looks like 160 Sec is the max.


After testing this.
I actually have a feeling atm why this is implemented.
But I don't like spreading rumors, so I just keep silent.
But let's see if MA is going to give some info about why.

But if I'm right. (seriously MindArk again?)
 
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Not sure if this has already been suggested or not, but how about if for every X number of mobs you kill in a row without dying, you get a certain amount of time credited/shaved off your revival time wait. For example, for every 5 or 10 (or how ever many would be a good number) of mobs killed in a row you kill, 2 seconds of revival wait time gets taken off with 10 seconds being the minimum wait time no matter how many mobs you kill.

If you kill enough mobs, you will never have to worry about longer/extended revival wait times and you can grind on/decay away. Evade/dodge botters will not get any of the time bonuses since they aren't killing anything and therefore will be subject to the time penalties - unless they start killing/decaying of course.

As far as PvP, idk, since I don't have any experience in it.
 
Optimator said:
Evade/dodge botters will not get any of the time bonuses since they aren't killing anything and therefore will be subject to the time penalties - unless they start killing/decaying of course.
Click to expand...

The way I see it atm has nothing to do with those silly botters.
Because a real botter would not realy care, yes it would take some extra time for it to get what they are after.
Do they realy believe that they can get rich with revive skilling?
Well I don't, just do the math.
I would gain faster PED even with Sweating and ofc they still get defensive skills while sweating.

So I would prefer sweating, just look at Boreas how many people park their arses there, and the noobs or alt ava's keep dragging new mobs toward those that are standing there stationary. They don't even need a macro orso for it :laugh:
 
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Buying 10 second forever revive deed @ boxes.

N.d. couldn't sell us on paid t.p. system so this is a replacement for that?

Guess I won't be going after the steampunks out the front door of my apartment up in Rocktropia much after this change... (usually was reviving 3x per mob with gremlin + 5b) Shame that was a perfectly good spawn to waste a lot of Katsuichi determination decay on... oh well... Guess Mindark doesn't want my decay money so much any more? I burned through something like 3 full katsuichi determination repairs one day in an extended hunting session a few months back (back when the crab meat was all the rage)... (was thinking about camping em now that there's a mission for em, but with this timer thing, nu-uh, not gonna happen.)
 
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Jan Universe said:
The way I see it atm has nothing to do with those silly botters.
Because a real botter would not realy care, yes it would take some extra time for it to get what they are after.
Do you realy believe that you can get rich with revive skilling?
Well I don't, just do the math.
I would gain faster PED even with Sweating.
Click to expand...

Where did I ever claim or say that I believed that one could get rich with revive skilling? I personally couldn't give a shit about revive skilling tbqh. Don't get me wrong, I do love the smell of snowflakes melting in the morning. Just offering a suggestion to maybe quell some of the hysteria. And it may not be about making peds either. Just could be someone who wants to skill up for free with minimal effort. I couldn't care less about that either, btw.
 
Optimator said:
Where did I ever claim or say that I believed that one could get rich with revive skilling? I personally couldn't give a shit about revive skilling tbqh. Don't get me wrong, I do love the smell of snowflakes melting in the morning. Just offering a suggestion to maybe quell some of the hysteria. And it may not be about making peds either. Just could be someone who wants to skill up for free with minimal effort. I couldn't care less about that either, btw.
Click to expand...

I did not say that you said that they get rich, I was just trying to figure out why they would make this silly feature.
And you reffered to the botters, in turn I react to that part.
And I don't care about them either.

I did change "You" into '''They'
Sorry for my stupid english, not native english here :)

Time to move on, I leave it to the specialist out here :rolleyes:.
 
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I imagine the people that like this change are the same people that want more stop signs and stop lights on their commute so they have more time to text.

If I want to fight a big mob to test my abilities, and I die a few times in the process, that is my business, I don't need big brothers help to discourage me from doing something to save me from myself with a stupid death timer. GTFO of my business and let me play the way I want to play and quit adding more and more restrictions and controls!

The beauty of PE was the wide open spaces of virtual reality sandbox where I could do what I want when I want to do it. Every time I turn around someone is requesting more controls and restrictions limiting me from doing what I want to do "for my own good" or whatever the stupid excuse is. FFS leave me alone and let me play! :mad:
 
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