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EU come to impossible middle deposit

morfoc said:
...
What a game if you do not even have fun in the morning to tell you I want to try some monsters for fun...
Click to expand...

you dont "play" this game for fun.
It's a way of life. It's an addiction.

If you want fun games, get an Xbox.
If you're bored about your real life and got to much time (and money) on your hands, play entropia. :wise:
 
morfoc said:
without amp in bad period.
Click to expand...
Realy? :eyecrazy:

morfoc said:
ur125L (lvl34para) or ek2600
Click to expand...
ur125L (10HP/Pec) :eyecrazy:
ek2600 (4,76HP/Pec) I asume you have the regular old one :eyecrazy:

morfoc said:
i use viceroy set M with 5b or not all time
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I would reconsider this also if I were you.

Will you get only +90% returns after changing some things. (No Ofc Not)
You can stil hit a a few runs with like 50% or even less returns.

But you realy need to look into this part.
 
Jan Universe said:
Realy? :eyecrazy:


ur125L (10HP/Pec) :eyecrazy:
ek2600 (4,76HP/Pec) I asume you have the regular old one :eyecrazy:


I would reconsider this also if I were you.

Will you get only +90% returns after changing some things. (No Ofc Not)
You can stil hit a a few runs with like 50% or even less returns.

But you realy need to look into this part.
Click to expand...

Yes, he needs a restoration chip.
That wil greatly reduces his healing/armour costs!
 
I understand quite well that my equipment is not at the top but seriously how do you want me to level up if I have to do it in deposit for maybe have a chance of nothing having behind?
Think seriously of the evolution, there is a problem why have created a panel of monsters as big if it is to have the choice only on 2/3 to be successful to hold a minimum? EU has gone from everything is possible (possible gain) to everything is possible (lose everything). How would you seriously be serene when you go with 3kped ammo for a hunt and that 2 days after you arrive at 400peds with your gun repaired and can be MA will give you a small ubb has 1kped with the remaining 400peds .... ( if you are luck)
I speak for middle players like me, why have created lands if it is for the sees that emptied of all the players for cruel lack of return?
 
morfoc said:
I understand quite well that my equipment is not at the top but seriously how do you want me to level up if I have to do it in deposit for maybe have a chance of nothing having behind?
Think seriously of the evolution, there is a problem why have created a panel of monsters as big if it is to have the choice only on 2/3 to be successful to hold a minimum? EU has gone from everything is possible (possible gain) to everything is possible (lose everything). How would you seriously be serene when you go with 3kped ammo for a hunt and that 2 days after you arrive at 400peds with your gun repaired and can be MA will give you a small ubb has 1kped with the remaining 400peds ....
I speak for middle players like me, why have created lands if it is for the sees that emptied of all the players for cruel lack of return?
Click to expand...

leveling up can be done a lot cheaper than with your setup. Ask Mark Rufen.
Sure, hunting small mobs is boring in the sense that you wont have the thrills of potentially hit the big ATH.
But it does level you up with minimal costs.

And yes, if you want to win big, you have to pay big and be willing to lose big.

If it's just skills your after, get that resto chip, get a small gun, hunt naked and shoot forever!
If it's the ATH your after, depo big and pray to lootius that he rewards you big.
 
morfoc said:
I understand quite well that my equipment is not at the top but seriously how do you want me to level up if I have to do it in deposit for maybe have a chance of nothing having behind?
Think seriously of the evolution, there is a problem why have created a panel of monsters as big if it is to have the choice only on 2/3 to be successful to hold a minimum? EU has gone from everything is possible (possible gain) to everything is possible (lose everything). How would you seriously be serene when you go with 3kped ammo for a hunt and that 2 days after you arrive at 400peds with your gun repaired and can be MA will give you a small ubb has 1kped with the remaining 400peds ....
I speak for middle players like me, why have created lands if it is for the sees that emptied of all the players for cruel lack of return?
Click to expand...

Returns are same for everyone, if you know how to get it.
And ofc you can gamble, and lose shitloads of Peds.

It's just what path you wanna be on.

And you don't need top gear, even the fap-90 would be better then this stupid ek2600 (Old one)
I never understood why people prefered the ek2600 over the fap-90 :)
 
wizz said:
leveling up can be done a lot cheaper than with your setup. Ask Mark Rufen.
Sure, hunting small mobs is boring in the sense that you wont have the thrills of potentially hit the big ATH.
But it does level you up with minimal costs.

And yes, if you want to win big, you have to pay big and be willing to lose big.

If it's just skills your after, get that resto chip, get a small gun, hunt naked and shoot forever!
If it's the ATH your after, depo big and pray to lootius that he rewards you big.
Click to expand...

Yes i am looking for my ath in the category hunt and mining :tongue2: but before all i would like to play a game originally very simpathic, or you could do any professions without limit, be able to hunt monsters nice and may have great objects a Inside or find a mining tower . All in the "good mood" but the ca becomes really complicated, I do not want to become rich or otherwise. But I will at least get back a minimum of my money deposit I find it normal not? So why do not I find him on my return?

To this day I can even take pleasure to have a faper behind for fun otherwise it is the ruin assured, here is one of the other fun moments disappeared

I know that everyone is equal "so called" for that I ask if I am the only one to have trouble =)
 
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morfoc said:
But I will at least get back a minimum of my money deposit I find it normal not? So why do not I find him on my return?
Click to expand...

Because you approach the game wrong.
MA is not obligated to guarantee you a minimum return (sort of)
If that was the case everyone could run around like an idiot and kill what they want.

You seem to want to gamble, so be prepared to lose.
 
Jan Universe said:
Because you approach the game wrong.
MA is not obligated to guarantee you a minimum return (sort of)
If that was the case everyone could run around like an idiot and kill what they want.

You seem to want to gamble, so be prepared to lose.
Click to expand...


Everything is pretext to say that it is gamble now? I hunt monsters on a planet and from time to time I want to make a big for pleasure is gamble? Ba then we are more in a virtual world we are in a virtual casino.
I specify that 50% of my sum has had to be largely lost in bad choices craft or purchase. But the rest I use it well on the monsters I use my money well to be able to hunt no? I just wonder why in 2017 I have a hard time surviving. Is money deposited past or?

I would prefer to give it to a lander that has a completely stupid dinamyc pool
 
morfoc said:
Everything is pretext to say that it is gamble now? I hunt monsters on a planet and from time to time I want to make a big for pleasure is gamble? Ba then we are more in a virtual world we are in a virtual casino.
I specify that 50% of my sum has had to be largely lost in bad choices craft or purchase. But the rest I use it well on the monsters I use my money well to be able to hunt no? I just wonder why in 2017 I have a hard time surviving. Is money deposited past or?
Click to expand...

well, it IS a virtual casino.
Hunting is the blackjack table.
Mining is the slotmachine
and crafting the roulette table.

It is now and always has been a gamble.

You have a hard time surviving because you're still in old school modus.

*edit* sure it's not all casino.
There are some professions that arent a gamble.
Think about professions like trader or invester. imho the only real money makers (apart from hutning/mining with rare uber uber gear)
 
morfoc said:
we are in a virtual casino.
Click to expand...

This game is not a casino.
If it was the odds would be very different then they are here.
MA has to prove the return % to those that maintain the law.
Else it would be banned from alot of countries probably.

It's just the lack of knowledge of people that keep saying this is a casino.
 
wizz said:
well, it IS a virtual casino.
Hunting is the blackjack table.
Mining is the slotmachine
and crafting the roulette table.

It is now and always has been a gamble.

You have a hard time surviving because you're still in old school modus.
Click to expand...


I'm 30 years old but I'm getting too old for this game :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
Jan Universe said:
This game is not a casino.
If it was the odds would be very different then they are here.
MA has to prove the return % to those that maintain the law.
Else it would be banned from alot of countries probably.

It's just the lack of knowledge of people that keep saying this is a casino.
Click to expand...

well, lets agree to disagree on this point then ;)

The roulette has the O and 00. MA has the 90/95%
In the end most things you do are just a gamble.
You can win or lose (or break even) but it still remains a gamble.

Entropia is a gambling house.
Casino's are a gambling house.

Maybe entropia might not be a casino, but they do have a lot in common!
 
I have the same results.


Last 3 days has costed me about 1k ped each day,
My setup: Naked, hunting feffox(young-provider E of Isslye) with my dear friend healing me with my mod 2350. I eat pills like they were skittles, X, X2, Y2 and all others I get from my massive amount of lootboxes.

Gun: Calytrek spirit mk III(never purchased for above 108%) with Dante amp attached, imp ares and enough skills to dodge the majority of hits resulting in 13 ped decay on the fap after 1k ped ammo used. (factoring weapon decay or dante decay here, but that brings the cost of the hunt towards 1.5k peds)

Each hunt slowly drives my ped card backwards, I've been trying changing setup, tried gambling (warlocks, osseo, which is WAY out of my league.... which seems to result in way better returns and more stable.. check my EL profile)

So my conclusion what works for me:
Do not try to eco hunt, that kills my ped card rapidly.

Go way out of your league, and hunt mobs you are not meant to be able to solo.


I'm so confused now days, I still love the game and have been depoing. But recently I really started to wonder why.. My iron missions are impossible to finish with my bankroll,

"So why don't you go down more levels and hunt where your bankroll allows you?"

might be because if I am meant to hunt Kerberos all day every day after spending a total of 12 years in game, hunting mid level since 2009, I might as well just say my time has come to stop playing at all and sell out completely.


I see no reason why I should try to hunt efficiently any more. Game is becoming more of a "deposit, go out mobs too big for my level and bankroll, profit(im talking 50 peds TT+ here or there) or break even."

Then when I return back to mobs that I can solo, in eco armor, and in my eyes a very eco fap )mod 2350 hello...) with my current iron missions (Feffox next on the list) the TT returns are ridiculous! 1.5k ~ ped per run and TT returns of 900 is not rare AT ALL! It has been this way all year for me..

Can some one around my level 57 Sniper hit, 53 Dmg, 206k total skill - please teach me how to survive with mod 2350 and dante amp, on a monthly limit of 5k peds, where i usually play 1-3 times a week?

My 5k peds used to last ("It's dynamic!") for much longer periods of time than compared to today.

I'm sad, not angry.

I know I am doing something wrong - because the game isn't supposed to be like this. So I beg some one to help me rethink the way I hunt and help me see straight.

(I rarely use TT, everything with MU I sell on auction or direct trade)

:(:(
 
Jan Universe said:
For some yes
Click to expand...

PLease explain how dropping a probe is not always a gamble.
Each drop is a spin at the slotmachine.

Is there a garuanteed return?
Sure, there are some factors which can be controlled like location and equipment, but it still is a gamble with each drop because you NEVER know for sure what will drop.
At the casino you can also chose location and equipment to use.
So I still fail to see the difference.
 
wizz said:
PLease explain how dropping a probe is not always a gamble.
Each drop is a spin at the slotmachine.

Is there a garuanteed return?
Sure, there are some factors which can be controlled like location and equipment, but it still is a gamble with each drop because you NEVER know for sure what will drop.
At the casino you can also chose location and equipment to use.
So I still fail to see the difference.
Click to expand...
It is a gamble, and more or less a casino, but the gambling authority in the country that Mindark is in will never claim it is such because they are too lazy to investigate it (luckily since us Americans then would not be able to play probably, lol)
The Swedish Gambling Authority has investigated the “Loot” system in Entropia Universe in journal number 13Li3786. The investigation was closed on the 30 of October 2013.

The Swedish gambling market is regulated by The Swedish lottery act (1994:1000). The general rule is that lotteries must not be arranged except by permit (Section 9, Lotteries Act). Permits may in principle only be granted to non-profit making associations whose activities are for the public benefit (Section 15, Lotteries Act), it is thus not sufficient for a permit to be granted that the proceeds of the lottery are applied for charitable purposes.

There are two possibilities for The Swedish Gambling Authority to act in cases of suspicion of crime, one is to submit to the suspect with a penalty (Vite) the second one is to notify the police. To submit the suspect with penalty it is required to that the offense has been committed within Swedish jurisdiction, this means a server is located in Sweden or the person or company that offers the lottery lives in Sweden.
It also requires an exact moment when the crime has been committed. It is, therefore, necessary to secure documentation of a Swedish player who lives in Sweden when he or her wins “Loots” in order to prove that the location of the criminal act is within the Swedish jurisdiction and that the legal person responsible for lottery is Swedish. The Swedish Gambling Authority would likely need to dedicate an employee on full-time to play in Entropia Universe before the possibility of gaining loots in Entropia Universe. It has to been proved that the actual legal person which is responsible for lottery is Swedish, in this case, MindArk and that it is not arranged by a foreign subsidiary to MindArk. This would require a thorough investigation concerning MindArks corporate structures.

Anyone may make a police report at suspicion of a criminal offense. It is likely to assume that the circumstance needs to be proven up to the level which is mentioned above in order for the Swedish court to decide on a punishment on a suspected crime. The Swedish Gambling Authority has come to the conclusion that current circumstances isn´t sufficient evidence to make a police report, if you wish to make a police report, please notice attached contact details below

Circumstances of the case Entropia Universe has been put forward for head of department in the case of how the matter should be handled. Head of operational department which is responsible for the prioritization and allocation of resources, has decided that The Swedish Gambling Authority currently does not have the opportunity to further investigate the matter with reference to the extensive resource case would take.

Polismyndigheten i Västra Götaland
Box 429
401 26 Göteborg
Sweden

Kind Regards
Josefin Jansson

LOTTERIINSPEKTIONEN
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LangeTobias said:
I have the same results.


Last 3 days has costed me about 1k ped each day,
My setup: Naked, hunting feffox(young-provider E of Isslye) with my dear friend healing me with my mod 2350. I eat pills like they were skittles, X, X2, Y2 and all others I get from my massive amount of lootboxes.

Gun: Calytrek spirit mk III(never purchased for above 108%) with Dante amp attached, imp ares and enough skills to dodge the majority of hits resulting in 13 ped decay on the fap after 1k ped ammo used. (factoring weapon decay or dante decay here, but that brings the cost of the hunt towards 1.5k peds)

Each hunt slowly drives my ped card backwards, I've been trying changing setup, tried gambling (warlocks, osseo, which is WAY out of my league.... which seems to result in way better returns and more stable.. check my EL profile)

So my conclusion what works for me:
Do not try to eco hunt, that kills my ped card rapidly.

Go way out of your league, and hunt mobs you are not meant to be able to solo.


I'm so confused now days, I still love the game and have been depoing. But recently I really started to wonder why.. My iron missions are impossible to finish with my bankroll,

"So why don't you go down more levels and hunt where your bankroll allows you?"

might be because if I am meant to hunt Kerberos all day every day after spending a total of 12 years in game, hunting mid level since 2009, I might as well just say my time has come to stop playing at all and sell out completely.


I see no reason why I should try to hunt efficiently any more. Game is becoming more of a "deposit, go out mobs too big for my level and bankroll, profit(im talking 50 peds TT+ here or there) or break even."

Then when I return back to mobs that I can solo, in eco armor, and in my eyes a very eco fap )mod 2350 hello...) with my current iron missions (Feffox next on the list) the TT returns are ridiculous! 1.5k ~ ped per run and TT returns of 900 is not rare AT ALL! It has been this way all year for me..

Can some one around my level 57 Sniper hit, 53 Dmg, 206k total skill - please teach me how to survive with mod 2350 and dante amp, on a monthly limit of 5k peds, where i usually play 1-3 times a week?

My 5k peds used to last ("It's dynamic!") for much longer periods of time than compared to today.

I'm sad, not angry.

I know I am doing something wrong - because the game isn't supposed to be like this. So I beg some one to help me rethink the way I hunt and help me see straight.

(I rarely use TT, everything with MU I sell on auction or direct trade)

:(:(
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lvl 57 Knifefighter & 58 Laser Sniper, my dps is a little higher on the knife than yours. i tend to play 2-3 hours most nights and since Feb 2015 my overall losses is 7k ped over 400k cycled, i assume its less than you turnover. I found Feffox a mob that seems to run poorly with zero MU items but has the chance to hit big, much like the Atrox. Try leaving Caly and going to Ark or Cyrene where mobs can drop items with better MU as the loot change on caly ruined alot of mobs
 
The Jetman said:
lvl 57 Knifefighter & 58 Laser Sniper, my dps is a little higher on the knife than yours. i tend to play 2-3 hours most nights and since Feb 2015 my overall losses is 7k ped over 400k cycled, i assume its less than you turnover. I found Feffox a mob that seems to run poorly with zero MU items but has the chance to hit big, much like the Atrox. Try leaving Caly and going to Ark or Cyrene where mobs can drop items with better MU as the loot change on caly ruined alot of mobs
Click to expand...


That's my plan later on today, just gotta bring my irl buddy with me so we can explore Arkadia fully. :)

Also want to finish the feffox mission as I am only 9k killpoints away from it... The closer I get, the bigger the losses get.. :(
 
I’ve often said in forum that in a players hour of need, responses can be ruthlessly aggressive or brutally honest, at a time when that player just need a cuddle and some empathy.

I myself used to be stuck in that mindset that hunting only had value “if hunting big”, so pursued that activity “all the time”.
But like the OP I could no longer afford it. I had to make huge changes or be forced to leave.

I now do taming with a 210 ped whip that take around 2 hours to burn.
The worst case is 70 ped loss (or 35 ped a hour), I’ve not had worse than that.
Although generally most whip turns are pretty reasonable, now I’ve gained a decent amount of skill doing it.

I’ve been doing that for about 2 years I guess now, and as most pets offer taming skill gain bonus it seemed like a good idea.
I’d love to go on big hunts (like before) but the reality for me is I can’t afford it with family, children to feed and one income.
After 10 years I no longer chase the ATH, it was sad I never got that big hit…..but hey ho that’s life.

I’m happier now. Over that 2 years I found a few nice pets, (I miss most of the good ones btw, for the fanboys).

So what’s more important to you, being online or your choice of activity?
For me I liked being logged into EU, so I had to find a solution.

So I’d say this as your number one priority.
Forget about equipment for a minute, and ask yourself one question?

What amount of input peds can you afford to sustain over say a two hour period, multiple times?
$10 ammo, $20 ammo, $50 ammo, $100 ammo
Seriously think about it.

Those hunters that do $500 ammo runs, who cares. Why are you trying to compete with that?

For me that 210 ped whip is both weapon decay and ammo included. I can live with that, for multiple turns.
Maybe taking a big step back is the answer, I remember tons of fun on feffs back in the day (Fort Fury was packed), but Prots became the new normal.

Forget all that prot or other big mob hunting, get your mind into a new habit, refreshing your brain to accept your own “new” normal.

If all else fails there’s always competgame.com You can have a good laugh for free in there.


Good luck


Rick

Ps: Players aren’t going to tell you their secrets, their little niche,…… harsh but true.
They will simply say, you’re doing it wrong. Stop; take your foot off the gas, reflect and think about your next move.
 
In the end we have 10/10 weapons or not, and Mindark says that everyone is equals.
There is an error in logic. Either it means that the weapon etc., does not matter in the loot, or we are not all equal. So in this case the why my weapon KingKong u60 that I just maxp in blp will not be profitable? But it is not even a matter of weapon I think or armor, it's just that the return on deposit has become seriously low since early 2017.
A personal I completely play and lost my ATH 57kpeds then where did they happen? I completely assume this loss I wanted to try loads of stuff =) while I still deposit I still can not why why? You talk to me about returns etc. but I do not see how succeeding has gone from 60k to 0 in 2years while I put at least 45kpeds more lol
How do you want that MA brings back the world in this logic or rather keeps players more than a few 400/500 $.

and If EU is not a game for why it goes to E3?
 
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RickEngland said:
So I’d say this as your number one priority.
Forget about equipment for a minute, and ask yourself one question?

What amount of input peds can you afford to sustain over say a two hour period, multiple times?
$10 ammo, $20 ammo, $50 ammo, $100 ammo
Seriously think about it.

Those hunters that do $500 ammo runs, who cares. Why are you trying to compete with that?
Click to expand...
Good tips. I read that the ai hunter mission bots are now on Rocktropia. I may need to go there but if the hunting ground is as crowded as I've read I may wait a bit for it to die down a little....

Read on Neverdie's forum that that little mission cost a player 1.5 hours to do the daily on it... Hunting for 1.5 hours on Neverdie's Money since you aren't paying for the ammo or gun sounds like it may be something to waste some time in game without actually spending your own peds. :)

As for the other advice, whipping is pretty fun... For a while I was just crafting explosives and doing the Billy bar instance on RT with the n00b grenade launcher... That's a major boring thing to do but is another way to blow some time without spending a ton of peds and skill up at the same time... and it's 'something different' than regular hunting. Some are doing likewise down around studio gate, but wish they'd do it in the instance instead since it's annoying to other hunters in the area when you just sit there hogging em all that are in the range of your grenade launcher.

I'd suggest you give crafting a try. One of the reasons I started my little 1 of everything project is that I have a theory that Mindark's going to start balancing the explosives that people keep griping about here with some good looting crafting stuff... If old school bps can get me something someday, why not give it a whirl. :) (in the worst case scenario you've just got more little toys to play with... It's kinda fun seeing how nice some of these little guns are even if I do miss a lot on em since I'm at somewhere like 4.6/10 HA... That little mann mph just goes to town on these foul young lately... it's like the old days before I could not deposit a few years (the era when taming was not in game) and was just using viper whip on puny... that was boring as heck, at least the dps is higher on this junk than that slow loader)
 
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entropia_2017-04-14_19.36.28.jpg



I asked for explanations if there are no shared loots etc because when I managed to take a picture during the GR event, they closed me the support without answer while I lost a lot in this event
 
morfoc said:
entropia_2017-04-14_19.36.28.jpg



I asked for explanations if there are no shared loots etc because when I managed to take a picture during the GR event, they closed me the support without answer while I lost a lot in this event
Click to expand...

There was a bug in the GR where you could enter other people instances, but any kills should have been solo looted, not shared in anyway. if you were aiming to compete in the 20 hours, it worked your time correctly but would look wrong at first.

Events like this have an high competition in loot, imo the more players hunting one type the bigger the swings in return

i did the 20hr in GR 6/7 & 7/7.
6/7 i killed 3459 Breeder 2 return was .-811.08
7/7 i killed 3577 Breeder 2 return was +450.69

same gear, but a swing from 93% to 105%

Gear was,
Corrosive Dagger + Melee Amp VI
Fire Dagger + Melee Amp IV (used when mobs health was below 20% to avoid too much overkill)
LC55 CDF + A103 (Pulled with Rifle before switching to melee)
Piron PLR27 + A103(was looted in instance and was useful when the LC55 died)

Wore Adj Pixie and healed with Refurbish Fap
 
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LOL... I see the same ppl with the same complaints over and over again. There is in the game a crafter which accumulated more then 13,000,000 PED - yep 13 millions PED just from the globals. Add few millions to it for the lesser then 50 PED yelds. And from what I was told the guy is in heavy losses.
So big gamble = big chance for possible losses + lesser chance for big profit. So in a long turn you will lose if you don't stop when/if going to green (this is the real life casino effect).
It seems to me every new player goes through this - thinking he just have to shoot few lvl 50 mobs and the $$$ will start raining. Or buying lvl 7-8 amps and going to the Underground. Myself included.
It is not stupid to follow the wishful thinking and to get bad results, it is stupid to make the same over and over again and to expect different results.
 
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The Jetman said:
There was a bug in the GR where you could enter other people instances, but any kills should have been solo looted, not shared in anyway. if you were aiming to compete in the 20 hours, it worked your time correctly but would look wrong at first.

Events like this have an high competition in loot, imo the more players hunting one type the bigger the swings in return

i did the 20hr in GR 6/7 & 7/7.
6/7 i killed 3459 Breeder 2 return was .-811.08
7/7 i killed 3577 Breeder 2 return was +450.69

same gear, but a swing from 93% to 105%

Gear was,
Corrosive Dagger + Melee Amp VI
Fire Dagger + Melee Amp IV (used when mobs health was below 20% to avoid too much overkill)
LC55 CDF + A103 (Pulled with Rifle before switching to melee)
Piron PLR27 + A103(was looted in instance and was useful when the LC55 died)

Wore Adj Pixie and healed with Refurbish Fap
Click to expand...


i complete 4/7 and 5/7 and middle 6/7 and just 5session 7/7
but in all case my pedcard go to 0:confused::confused:
As well as my equipment makes me lose so much money ep53 elm + ghost (I never calculate the armor in my expenses)
 
morfoc said:
i complete 4/7 and 5/7 and middle 6/7 and just 5session 7/7
but in all case my pedcard go to 0:confused::confused:
As well as my equipment makes me lose so much money ep53 elm + ghost (I never calculate the armor in my expenses)
Click to expand...

Ghost on Breeder 2 may have been a little over protected, they don't hit that hard or often. i myself don't like the elm guns, because they can't really been tested for eco due to the way they are you could be running with lower dpp than a 110% normal version
 
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