Info: Leeloo's Mining Guide

trance said:

A bit of topic: I just wondering, what exactly hapen, if you use a enhancer for, lets say 100 drops, then you remove it and sell it on auc to next person. Break this enhancer faster, since it was used for 100 drops before the selling?

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enhancer break rate is random and there is no counter on a "used" enhancer. even self crafted enhancer which have never been used before can and will break on first use.

trance said:

A bit of topic: I just wondering, what exactly hapen, if you use a enhancer for, lets say 100 drops, then you remove it and sell it on auc to next person. Break this enhancer faster, since it was used for 100 drops before the selling?

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They break cause you use them, not because you had them on your finder and sell them now.

Why they break depends what you find, that's why they break a lot less on enmatters only and more on ores (higher TT value) and even more when mining for treasures. Did the tests for several K drops

Average cost for enhancers breaking ped / drop when using 8 enhancers bought @ 210%:

Enmatter only : 0,0093333 ped /drop
Ores only : 0,0520563 ped / drop
Treasure : 0,0642039 ped/drop
Enmatter + ores : 0,0594462 ped / drop

For this month so far when using 9 enhancers it costs 0,0678809 ped / drop when enhancers bought @ 200% (including the 0,01799 ped decay of the F-106) so 0,660819 for the enhancers only

So when mining for enm or ores only its a lot cheaper than with an L finder at such a depth.

What I do like is that you break less enhancers when TT return is less than usual and when breaking a lot, I'm now like ... wow this gonna be a great run lol.

LeelooM said:

They break cause you use them, not because you had them on your finder and sell them now.

Why they break depends what you find, that's why they break a lot less on enmatters only and more on ores (higher TT value) and even more when mining for treasures. Did the tests for several K drops

Average cost for enhancers breaking ped / drop when using 8 enhancers bought @ 210%:

Enmatter only : 0,0093333 ped /drop
Ores only : 0,0520563 ped / drop
Treasure : 0,0642039 ped/drop
Enmatter + ores : 0,0594462 ped / drop

For this month so far when using 9 enhancers it costs 0,0678809 ped / drop when enhancers bought @ 200% (including the 0,01799 ped decay of the F-106) so 0,660819 for the enhancers only

So when mining for enm or ores only its a lot cheaper than with an L finder at such a depth.

What I do like is that you break less enhancers when TT return is less than usual and when breaking a lot, I'm now like ... wow this gonna be a great run lol.

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Ha, so you use it as indicator, to see if run is nice or bad need to watch this too.

This going to be "THE" mining guide as I can see!
A question:
I'm curious if you guys noticed any change at Indoor claims lately.
Did a couple runs unamped at Foma and Hell (about 200+ PED each) and noticed some difference to the better myself. More claims less big ones. I used to have awfull runs with 100 - 120 drops and zero claims there before i hit something (for one kind ofc ore or enmatter). Now I was way better, basically above 11%-12% success and that's unusual for me at least.
Maybe I'm getting at uber zone dunno

count this a bump for a great thread (can't rep Leeloo frequently lol)

Billy Jean Ruby said:

This going to be "THE" mining guide as I can see!
A question:
I'm curious if you guys noticed any change at Indoor claims lately.
Did a couple runs unamped at Foma and Hell (about 200+ PED each) and noticed some difference to the better myself. More claims less big ones. I used to have awfull runs with 100 - 120 drops and zero claims there before i hit something (for one kind ofc ore or enmatter). Now I was way better, basically above 11%-12% success and that's unusual for me at least.
Maybe I'm getting at uber zone dunno

count this a bump for a great thread (can't rep Leeloo frequently lol)

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This is very interesting even when I hardly do indoor mining.

I have noticed that the Hitrating on caly now is very low since hmm almost a week for me now

If you check auction you see many most common resources are getting up in % cause they seem harder to be mined for now, so I'm less mining now and sell most of my stock (cause % are going up nicely)

But I do see people making very nice hofs mostly on indoor mining (amped or not) so I'm pretty sure something is going on

Can't seem to give you rep neither Billy Jean lol

LeelooM said:

Here are (probably) the final results when using the F-106 + 8 depth enhancers

2044 dual drops = 87 broken enhancers (@ 210%) = 0,0715068 ped / drop

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This is interesting because it basically shows that you basically have better eco with L finders until a rough break-even point below 700m when you factor in finder MU (eMINE FS and Ziplex TK120 Seeker ballpark). You're spending less per unit of depth when you're going deeper than those ~700m finders by going with the F106 + enhancer route unless you can snag one of the really efficient L deep finders that pop up on auction on occasion for decent MU. That seems to hold even if break rates are different for ore, enmatter, etc. as you're usually not going to need to increase depth for enmatter like you do for some ores.

Of course, for that depth addition to pay off, however you get it, you need to be finding resources at those depths to bump up your average MU suffciently. In a lot of higher MU areas I mine, averaging 700 is more than sufficient to give you access to the occasional Redulite, Vesperdite, etc. but the added MU from hitting those slightly more often with a deeper finder didn't pay off for me in the bit of testing I've done so far. That's going to be highly location/resource composition/MU dependent though.

kingofaces said:

This is interesting because it basically shows that you basically have better eco with L finders until a rough break-even point below 700m when you factor in finder MU (eMINE FS and Ziplex TK120 Seeker ballpark). You're spending less per unit of depth when you're going deeper than those ~700m finders by going with the F106 + enhancer route unless you can snag one of the really efficient L deep finders that pop up on auction on occasion for decent MU. That seems to hold even if break rates are different for ore, enmatter, etc. as you're usually not going to need to increase depth for enmatter like you do for some ores.

Of course, for that depth addition to pay off however, you get it, you need to be finding resources at those depths to bump up your average MU suffciently. In a lot of higher MU areas I mine, averaging 700 is more than sufficient to give you access to the occasional Redulite, Vesperdite, etc. but the added MU from hitting those slightly more often with a deeper finder didn't pay off for me in the bit of testing I've done so far. That's going to be highly location/resource composition/MU dependent though.

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Thank you for reply

For the moment I'm only doing dual to know the average with 9 enhancers.

After spending 2220 ped my average dropcost is 0,0531351 so + decay F-106 0.01799 the totall /drop is 0,0711251 ped.

I don't know how others are doing for the moment off course with many enhancers (only a very good friend miner with the GR3 and he has about similar returns), for me at this moment the HR is low at this depth, but every 100 drops I'm getting 2-3-4 multipliers that make up more than enough to pay the costs without getting any swirls so far.
Almost every zone (blame MA) has some resources that have better MU so I'm having a hard time mining with less enhancers, also because of the fact I finally started finding ruga and also because redu is getting very common since using 9 enhancers.

Also taking into account that return/swirls are based on repair/costs/cycling I wonder if I can get even more than the unamped 1 and 2 K hof's I got last month.

For this month I'll keep using dual all the time, from next month I'll split enm/ores from time to time to know costs also and try to mine more eco

Edit : with 9 enhancers I'm mostly mining between 650-1350 depth so the "bubble" is getting bigger

LeelooM said:

Thank you for reply

For the moment I'm only doing dual to know the average with 9 enhancers.

After spending 2220 ped my average dropcost is 0,0531351 so + decay F-106 0.01799 the totall /drop is 0,0711251 ped.

I don't know how others are doing for the moment off course with many enhancers (only a very good friend miner with the GR3 and he has about similar returns), for me at this moment the HR is low at this depth, but every 100 drops I'm getting 2-3-4 multipliers that make up more than enough to pay the costs without getting any swirls so far.
Almost every zone (blame MA) has some resources that have better MU so I'm having a hard time mining with less enhancers, also because of the fact I finally started finding ruga and also because redu is getting very common since using 9 enhancers.

Also taking into account that return/swirls are based on repair/costs/cycling I wonder if I can get even more than the unamped 1 and 2 K hof's I got last month.

For this month I'll keep using dual all the time, from next month I'll split enm/ores from time to time to know costs also and try to mine more eco

Edit : with 9 enhancers I'm mostly mining between 650-1350 depth so the "bubble" is getting bigger

Click to expand...

The hitrate is horrible in general, so I am saving my peds for better days...

What I would also suggest players to do is to test the hitrate waters so to speak by using md1 finders before any others, let alone amping.

For the moment I'm stalking the auctioneer mostly since mining is a lot less than usual and it's a good time to sell my stock.
Lots of very nice mu's now

Since mining is down for some time now, I mined a lot less (mostly stopped after 50 drops) so here are some results for dual mining with 9 depth enhancers all the time.

Totall peds spend : 3420
Totall drops : 2280
Cost / drop : 0,0546082 ped
Decay F-106 : 0,01799
Cost + drop + decay : 0,0725982 ped

When mining returns are back to normal, I'll start split mining, so I'll be doing enm/ore/trea separated also to have a better overview (depending what I need off course)

This morning I thought ... maybe its me because of the bad HR so I adjusted some things, tested out ore and enm separated and it helped ^^

The deeper you go the lower the HR gets (cause of high MU ores) now in combination of some ores/enm that are harder to find now, losses where inevitable

So I decided to downgrade to T7 instead of T9 (for a certain area) and it helped

LeelooM said:

This morning I thought ... maybe its me because of the bad HR so I adjusted some things, tested out ore and enm separated and it helped ^^

The deeper you go the lower the HR gets (cause of high MU ores) now in combination of some ores/enm that are harder to find now, losses where inevitable

So I decided to downgrade to T7 instead of T9 (for a certain area) and it helped

Click to expand...

Mining is still pathetically bad, I am loosing interest in this game.....

LeelooM said:

The deeper you go the lower the HR gets (cause of high MU ores)

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I did some formal testing on whether finder decay affected TT returns (it didn't), but I've been meaning to add this to the list too. Basically, same finder specs except depth and see if there's a statistical difference if you are switching between "normal" and deep depth each drop to account for things like TT just happening to be low the time you use the deep finder, etc. Hopefully this one doesn't take as long to test

I'm curious though, what makes you think the hit rate is going to be different because of high MU? Everything I've seen so far seems to indicate depth only affects resource composition, not the hit rate. That being said, I haven't seen really good data yet either way that has a good experimental design to sussing that all out, hence formally trying it out.

kingofaces said:

I did some formal testing on whether finder decay affected TT returns (it didn't), but I've been meaning to add this to the list too. Basically, same finder specs except depth and see if there's a statistical difference if you are switching between "normal" and deep depth each drop to account for things like TT just happening to be low the time you use the deep finder, etc. Hopefully this one doesn't take as long to test

I'm curious though, what makes you think the hit rate is going to be different because of high MU? Everything I've seen so far seems to indicate depth only affects resource composition, not the hit rate. That being said, I haven't seen really good data yet either way that has a good experimental design to sussing that all out, hence formally trying it out.

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Personally I think all is very well balanced out depending depth and this is what I think about that, I don't have any prove to back this up.

My returns are all based on the same area's with the same amount of enhancers, doing them over and over again.

Resource composition is indeed different depending depth, so when I'm in a zone with high MU ores, my HR is mostly lower compared to a zone where there are less or none or when using less enhancers
Maybe I should write that down also but there is no way to prove this I think.

This let's me think that there is a minimum/maximum of TT return /drop you can get (depending gear) and off course this can be different every time (not counting globals/hofs, I count those as an extra) since MA controls this by changing the economics of what can/cannot be found.

Gear also affects what you get, in my case it depends what amount of enhancers I'm using.

Going deeper and deeper gives you also a bigger chance of getting more rare/high MU ores.
This gives me a lower HR cause I'm getting more higher TT resources. MA doesn't care about MU, only about TT. So spending xx in drops, will give you ... in TT return depending the zone and the finder/enhancers you are mining with.

According depth, it is also strange that I only found ruga when using 9 enhancers on my finder and not sooner even when I did that same zone over and over before with up to 8 enhancers and going deep enough to find it.
Minimum depth for ruga is 843 so I should have found it with a lot less enhancers.
There is also the fact that like ruga, some ores are capped.

For instance, redulite I'm finding only with minimum 6 enhancers (and finding more when using 7-8-9 enhancers), I did the test again yesterday in a zone where I mostly find lots and lots of it. I used 4 enhancers and ..... got no redulite..... and my deepest finding was 1048 so more than enough to get some redulite.

So I'll be writing it down next time, just to see the outcomes, could be interesting ^^

If you have any suggestions on how to test all this, I'm listening

Nice info here. Been mining myself lately and doing very well with f-106, ul level 2 SGA, and mining ring.
Ring is nearly +2k so far after a little over month, mining maybe an hour a day if that on average.

For those interested I made a web based log for every mining run I do.(free to use or look around) The only public info is mine, yours would be private and viewed separately when logged in.

Just click the entropia utilities link in my signature, and look for the green mining button on the main page. Or under the mining section on the sidebar.

Shows a bunch of data like where stuff is found, and a breakdown of every run's decay, enhancer break rates, tier gains and total return - with markups. More to be added, constant tweaks to it, eventually will be automated wit ha client but stability first).

You can also search overall results for any finder I use, see overall totals for any amp I use, x-mas ring(mining) totals and you can also search ores/enmatters/Treasures to see where I find them (and will even show what bps use found materials). (treasure data is missing on LBML, mainly why I mention this, another tool for people to use when looking for where materials there are)

Awesome info Leeloo Good stuff for sure.

I rest my case concerning redulite

Today I found redulite with the F-106 + only 4 depth enhancers at 971 deep ^^

LeelooM said:

If you have any suggestions on how to test all this, I'm listening

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The main thing when testing is to try to remove the confounding effect of time (mining one day can be different than the next). Ideally, that means alternating between finders each drop rather than a run of one and a run of the other. It would be really inconvenient if you have just one finder and are adding/removing enhancers each drop though, so that's why I'm looking at using two finders to switch between.

What I'm planning to do with the above is to record whether each drop was a hit or miss, and maybe the TT of each claim. The latter requires having excel open and adding values in as you extract, but that's what I did for finder decay testing. I'm a little more interested in hit rate primarily, so all you would need to do with that data is do something like logistic regression to determine the hit rate and compare whether hit rate statistically varied by depth as opposed to variation by chance. It all boils down to having good data to put into the analysis. I'm a research scientist, so while I probably shouldn't be getting too much in setting up experiments on the game when not at work, it's actually kind of fun to set up proper experimental designs like I do for work when testing things here.

kingofaces said:

The main thing when testing is to try to remove the confounding effect of time (mining one day can be different than the next). Ideally, that means alternating between finders each drop rather than a run of one and a run of the other. It would be really inconvenient if you have just one finder and are adding/removing enhancers each drop though, so that's why I'm looking at using two finders to switch between.

What I'm planning to do with the above is to record whether each drop was a hit or miss, and maybe the TT of each claim. The latter requires having excel open and adding values in as you extract, but that's what I did for finder decay testing. I'm a little more interested in hit rate primarily, so all you would need to do with that data is do something like logistic regression to determine the hit rate and compare whether hit rate statistically varied by depth as opposed to variation by chance. It all boils down to having good data to put into the analysis. I'm a research scientist, so while I probably shouldn't be getting too much in setting up experiments on the game when not at work, it's actually kind of fun to set up proper experimental designs like I do for work when testing things here.

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Next to EU and LBML I always have excel open also (I cant l live without it lol)

So you need to know hit or miss of every drop + TT return if I understand this correctly?
For TT of the claim is size enough or you need to know the exact amount? If so I extract and put what I got in a car (mostly have 10 MK1 explorers with me)
I should switch between finders each drop? I can use F-101 up to F-106
I also will note how many enh I used and between what depths all was?

Maybe you can make a new thread for everybody that wants to help (in a correct way) and you can process all with an example of how the data should look like?

Switching between each drop will give a great different on what you find I think, this is so interesting

I'm sure this is gonna be a lot of fun
Can't wait to see the results

Correct. Basically, I would want to see two columns. One for finder 1, one for finder 2 (deeper depth). Each row should be for a drop from each finder within a short period of time. Between each drop, you would switch to the other finder. Ideally, the finders should have the same search radius in case that confounds the hit rate, TT return, etc.

For now, I'm setting things up for when I get more active after summer's over, but I might post a thread after my initial testing to see where to go from there. Claim size is a lower resolution, so if there is a difference, I'd need a much higher sample size. It gets kind of complicated to analyze that kind of data, and it's more prone to false negatives, especially since these types of tests more suited towards demonstrating if there is a difference associated with depth. They're not as good at saying there is no difference (type 1 and type 2 error).

I'll probably post an update in a month or two along with my finder decay testing when work settles down.

Perfect

Can't wait to see those results and if you need more data, just let me know. I do not mind switching from 1 to another finder like F-106 to F-105 or something lower or even with a terra.

For myself I was planning to test 2 finders but then do it on the same spot like F-101 and F-106 (with some enh)
But first I'm trying to see how undeep/deep 2 finders go so I have almost no overlapping in depth. This might be different from zone to zone also.

For now I'm also checking the dropcost with enh more and more, after that I might try the double dual drop with 2 different finders.

This is so much fun

LeelooM said:

Next to EU and LBML I always have excel open also (I cant l live without it lol)

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or do it like me....old fashion way.....with pencil and paper/notepad you aint loss any data that way

2018 July

F-106 + 4 enhancers (755,2 depth)

Found resources between 516 - 1091 deep

What are the costs?

Enhancers counted @200%

Drop price finders are without MU

​

If you are mining dual : 0,0179698 / drop + decay F-106 = 0,0359598

If you are mining ores : 0,016 / drop + decay F-106 = 0,03399

If you are mining enmatters : 0,0104348 / drop + decay F-106 = 0,0284248​

Compare this with :

Terramaster 4 (depth 741,3): 0,0372 / drop * ... MU you payed

Ziplex TK220 (depth 776,1) : 0,0396 / drop * ... MU you payed
​

LeelooM said:

2018 July

F-106 + 4 enhancers (755,2 depth)

Found resources between 516 - 1091 deep

What are the costs?

Enhancers counted @200%

Drop price finders are without MU

​

If you are mining dual : 0,0179698 / drop + decay F-106 = 0,0359598

If you are mining ores : 0,016 / drop + decay F-106 = 0,03399

If you are mining enmatters : 0,0104348 / drop + decay F-106 = 0,0284248​

Compare this with :

Terramaster 4 (depth 741,3): 0,0372 / drop * ... MU you payed

Ziplex TK220 (depth 776,1) : 0,0396 / drop * ... MU you payed
​

Click to expand...

What breakage rate have you experienced on the enhancers? For ore only it seems about 1 enhancer per slot every 400 drops?

What breakage rate are you experiencing? Seems to be 1 enhancer per slot, every 400 drops (ore only)

twm said:

What breakage rate are you experiencing? Seems to be 1 enhancer per slot, every 400 drops (ore only)

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Depends what you are mining. I used 4 enh the whole month, sometimes dual, then enmatters and ores only and this is the result after about 8K drops

As mentioned before they break faster on L finders than on UL finders.

If you use less slots off course then the breakrate is lower, for ores it is most clear that they break after 100 drops with 4 slots in use, so if you use only 1 slot this "might be" (not yet tested) be 1 every 400 drops indeed on an UL finder.

Just wondering if more people are getting Kirtz on Caly for the moment?

I used to find it more on FOMA, but since a few weeks I'm getting this regulary on Caly and that is a bit "unknown"

Maybe new BP's dropping soon?

LeelooM said:

Just wondering if more people are getting Kirtz on Caly for the moment?

I used to find it more on FOMA, but since a few weeks I'm getting this regulary on Caly and that is a bit "unknown"

Maybe new BP's dropping soon?

Click to expand...

I get only at one place Kirtz, with 2 enhancer at F106. It is the place i showed you. Sorry, i don't want tell everyone where this is

Send a PM back Trance

I'm finding it with the F-106 and Roctec M1-LF at places I do several times a week and never got them before.

RE-101 + Speed enhancers​

After years and years of drilling I finally reached Tier 1,9 and could upgrade the RE-101.

I also updated it to entropiawiki

Why I use this extractor? It's 1 of the cheapest in game (for a cheap price and available for every 1) and cost only 0,6 PEC / drill. Here you can check all excavators ingame

This excavation eff brings us in the range of the
Gold rush rock ripper 3 (very expensive) with a decay of 0,833 PEC
OR
RE-103 with a decay of 1,5 PEC

I'll be writing down now also when the enhancers start breaking (TT drilled/totall drills)

If you want to be super efficient get a Demonic Excavator MK-I (L) it's actually more efficient than the numbers say. Due to the fact that excavators have a 5 stone minimum pull the demonic can be the most efficient excavator in some circumstances.

If you have a small claim with <=10 stones then the demonic is better than anything else (although it is slow). If you're pulling high tt stones then the demonic will also be better than your standard excavator, it all depends which excavator you normally use and how high the stone tt is.

I carry a 105 SGA and a demonic, for low tt and speed I use the SGA but for higher tt (assuming I can handle the waiting time) I use the demonic.

tip: for 1 pull claims click extract then start running, you don't need to wait for the cooldown, it will still complete the extraction.

slither said:

If you want to be super efficient get a Demonic Excavator MK-I (L) it's actually more efficient than the numbers say. Due to the fact that excavators have a 5 stone minimum pull the demonic can be the most efficient excavator in some circumstances.

If you have a small claim with <=10 stones then the demonic is better than anything else (although it is slow). If you're pulling high tt stones then the demonic will also be better than your standard excavator, it all depends which excavator you normally use and how high the stone tt is.

I carry a 105 SGA and a demonic, for low tt and speed I use the SGA but for higher tt (assuming I can handle the waiting time) I use the demonic.

tip: for 1 pull claims click extract then start running, you don't need to wait for the cooldown, it will still complete the extraction.

Click to expand...

Nice 1 Slither, gonna try this for sure THANK YOU VERY MUCH

Says 0,1 PEC decay and around 180% so will test it and post the outcome