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Info: Leeloo's Mining Guide

Ok. Thanks for the imput.

Hi all. Thanks for the info. Leeloo, you may have started this thread for the new person but honestly, things keep changing so much over the course of 1-2 years that alot of things are "new"..lol..but I appreciate you responding despite the fact I wouldn't be considered a "new" player at lvl 31..lol. With the preamped finders, there is very little information about them except that they use more probes to work like an amp. I couldn't find anything else out about them so I thought I would toss the question out there to see if anyone knew more from their own experience. Thanks also the Haruto and BigDaddy Trim for your help as well. :)
 
Princess Zarnia said:
Hi all. Thanks for the info. Leeloo, you may have started this thread for the new person but honestly, things keep changing so much over the course of 1-2 years that alot of things are "new"..lol..but I appreciate you responding despite the fact I wouldn't be considered a "new" player at lvl 31..lol. With the preamped finders, there is very little information about them except that they use more probes to work like an amp. I couldn't find anything else out about them so I thought I would toss the question out there to see if anyone knew more from their own experience. Thanks also the Haruto and BigDaddy Trim for your help as well. :)
Click to expand...

Just wanted to confirm so there's no doubts. I've used pre-amped finders extensively, particularly the L30.

Pre-amped finders are no different than normal amps, stack them however you please. The statistic that affects your loot window is "TT cost per drop" or "decay per drop".

There is still not a consensus on whether Finder decay is included in this calculation. This is the only caveat still up for debate. I tend to believe it's included, but I've never bothered to do extensive testing.
 
Princess Zarnia said:
Like if you mine with the ore setting on a P-85, you are using 170 probes per drop for an ore. That would be about the equivalent of a lvl 5 amp on an f-105.
Click to expand...

No. 170 from wiki means 17 ped (I don't realize right now why they use this equivalence. Check out DSEC L30, is written "20" for ores, but literally mining probes, it uses 40). F-105 with lvl5 amps uses 3 ped.

As for amping, I never used the ones from boxes, but haven't heard of any limitation. Amplification works per ped.

So, unamped F105 = 1x
F-105+lvl3=2x
DSEC L30 unamped=2x
DSEC L30+lvl3=3x
 
Still working on a list of weight/transport prices but this is what I have so far up to :

60 kg = 2 ped
73,80 kg = 2,43 ped
79,80 kg = 2,63 ped
100 kg = 3,30 ped
120 kg = 3,96 ped
137,50 kg = 4,53 ped
145,20 kg = 4,79 ped
159,90 kg = 5,27 ped
180 kg = 5,94 ped
200 kg = 6,60 ped
240 kg = 7,92 ped
300 kg = 9,90 ped
320 kg = 10,56 ped
333,40 kg = 11 ped

If any 1 has more or specific prices please let us know.
 
Kerham said:
No. 170 from wiki means 17 ped (I don't realize right now why they use this equivalence. Check out DSEC L30, is written "20" for ores, but literally mining probes, it uses 40). F-105 with lvl5 amps uses 3 ped.

As for amping, I never used the ones from boxes, but haven't heard of any limitation. Amplification works per ped.

So, unamped F105 = 1x
F-105+lvl3=2x
DSEC L30 unamped=2x
DSEC L30+lvl3=3x
Click to expand...

You all forget this about amping:
if you dont get a claim it cost a lot more as unamped.
So, it ofc have a influence of the mining stile. Unamped, i risk a lot more drops as if i use a amp. More drops = bigger chance to hit a claim or getting mining boxes.

If i use a amp, i don't drop like unamped, about if you don't hit a claim, you loose much more. I can't say, how many runs i had amped on foma and just got 0-1 claim per 100 drops. If i changed to unamped, i find more claims, and at end it was better as unamped getting only one claim.

Using amps, is near the same as using full condition on crafting (call it casino play). The risk to loose is much higher. Ok, visa versa, if you hit a bigger claim amped, then it pay out, but im not sure it make it all better in long range mining.

I also did testing amped mining outdoor. I always was thinking, if i use amps, my hitrate going down. I get a lot more claims unamped. This let me think, that amps generaly slow down the hit rate.

Ok, thats my opinion about amped mining.
 
trance said:
You all forget this about amping:
if you dont get a claim it cost a lot more as unamped.
So, it ofc have a influence of the mining stile. Unamped, i risk a lot more drops as if i use a amp. More drops = bigger chance to hit a claim or getting mining boxes.

If i use a amp, i don't drop like unamped, about if you don't hit a claim, you loose much more. I can't say, how many runs i had amped on foma and just got 0-1 claim per 100 drops. If i changed to unamped, i find more claims, and at end it was better as unamped getting only one claim.

Using amps, is near the same as using full condition on crafting (call it casino play). The risk to loose is much higher. Ok, visa versa, if you hit a bigger claim amped, then it pay out, but im not sure it make it all better in long range mining.

I also did testing amped mining outdoor. I always was thinking, if i use amps, my hitrate going down. I get a lot more claims unamped. This let me think, that amps generaly slow down the hit rate.

Ok, thats my opinion about amped mining.
Click to expand...

Great to see some count that way also :) Thank you Trance

This is the reason I do not use amps ..... or only if I get a hit rating of 33.33% or higher or when the MU is great on most findings.
But even with a hitrating that is a bit lower and MU is great, it's very easy to loose your profits on the NRF.

I compare using amps with EP crafting also, from quantity to condition, depends how much you want to gamble

And as for cycling .... I found out that if I drop XXX ped on probes (in same area's) I always get a glob ..... ending with an over +100% TT return and it makes no differents if I use a F-101 or up to F-106

Testing this now on dif zones also.

Here I used a amp lol

screenshot_-_20-feb-18_4_52_19_am.jpg


​

This is what i posted before on page 11 and I'll stick to it :p

Some have been asking me why I do not use amps (or rarely use them), so this is why

If I do use them its mostly the D-class or lvl 8 so let's calculate with that 1 but you can use the same calculation with any other amps off course.

Each drop (ores only) will cost you 4 ped so + 1 ped drop from probes gives us a drop of 5 ped
On a hit you will get (mostly) an ample, this is between 12-18 ped (TT value) so an average of 15 ped ^^
This means you need a Hit Rate of 33,33% to break even (again TT value)

33,33% Hit Rating is not very rare but also not very common and i call it the magic number, again it's all about the zone you are in and how HR is. Knowing the zone very good gives you a high advantage.
So you need a hit every 3th drop (average), if not you are loosing (hard)

Using this in a zone where there are mostly high MU ores (and I mean over 150%) will give you more certainty of your return and yes those zones exist but are very rare
 
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trance said:
You all forget this about amping:
if you dont get a claim it cost a lot more as unamped.
So, it ofc have a influence of the mining stile. Unamped, i risk a lot more drops as if i use a amp. More drops = bigger chance to hit a claim or getting mining boxes.

If i use a amp, i don't drop like unamped, about if you don't hit a claim, you loose much more. I can't say, how many runs i had amped on foma and just got 0-1 claim per 100 drops. If i changed to unamped, i find more claims, and at end it was better as unamped getting only one claim.

Using amps, is near the same as using full condition on crafting (call it casino play). The risk to loose is much higher. Ok, visa versa, if you hit a bigger claim amped, then it pay out, but im not sure it make it all better in long range mining.

I also did testing amped mining outdoor. I always was thinking, if i use amps, my hitrate going down. I get a lot more claims unamped. This let me think, that amps generaly slow down the hit rate.

Ok, thats my opinion about amped mining.
Click to expand...

I have never noticed a difference in hit rate between amped and unamped. the only diffrence i have seen is size of claims or type of mats.
 
bigdaddy trim said:
I have never noticed a difference in hit rate between amped and unamped. the only diffrence i have seen is size of claims or type of mats.
Click to expand...

If I'm in a terru zone I get terru 1/3 - 2/3 - 3/3 drops ... if I'm amped I'm getting 3/3 drops lyst with D-class :p
So I fully agree on that statement.
But don't think HR is different neither.
 
bigdaddy trim said:
I have never noticed a difference in hit rate between amped and unamped. the only diffrence i have seen is size of claims or type of mats.
Click to expand...

Seems it is different for everyone.
How ever, i have my reason, why i mine 98% unamped. I most lost my ass, if i used amps, also i did a lot tests about unamped and amped hit rate on my mining. I mined a lot amped, before i changed my mind. Always i lost very fast my peds on my card. This never hapen unamped. With a few peds, i mine very long unamped. But ok, I don't want change others mining experiances, i just was talking, how my experiances are with amp and without.
At least, for me work unamped mining much better. Also i got 2 unamped towers.
 
Refining your resources added to the mining help

Before selling your resources you best refine them.

There are many different refiners on the market so what to choose?

I would strongly advice to go for the Transformer T-105 (hard to get and high TT value of 75 ped) OR

the Imperium Resource Refiner B1 with only a TT value of 6 ped

Both are cheapest to refine resources ingame.
There are more economic refiners but those will cost you a few K peds so up to you if they are worth it.

When refining Nutrio's and ME you should try to wait till you can get K of each since you get 1001 per 1K refined.
 
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LeelooM said:
UNL finders or L finders?
There are pro's and contra's on both.
Unlimited finders are hard to get (and I mean starting from F-105 and higher).
They do cost more when you want to buy them and you will need to Tier them up if not already done and this costs a lot.
Advantage you have here is, when you Tiered the finder up, you can go mine at any depth you like cause they stay unlocked. You only need to put enhancers in it to change your average depth.
Limited finders are much more available and easy to get.
On the other hand you do pay MU every time you buy 1 and and you can only use enhancers on them when you unlocked the slots.
Enhancers will break a lot faster on L finders.

Also decay on UNL finders is a lot less.
For example let's go try to find gold with the average depth of 822
Each drop with the F-106 (without enhancers) will cost you 1,799 Pec
Assuming you pay 200% for 1 depth enhancer, it will cost 0,80 *200% = 1,60 ped / 100 drops (estimated 1 break after 100 drops) = 0,016 ped/drop * 4 = 0,064 ped
So using the F-106 with 4 enhancers costs a totall of 1,863 pec / drop in decay
Each drop with the Terramaster 5 (without enhancers) will cost you 4,125 Pec
Click to expand...

I love this guide. Last night I decided to read it again for 5th time maybe.
But I think there is miscalculation here.
In the given example 100 drops X 1,863 pec = 1,863 ped.
Hows that we break 4 enhancers that will cost us 6,4 ped?!?!?. Check the underlined red words in the quote.
I think the correct calculation should be this:
F-106 decay is 0,01799 ped and then we add the 0,064 ped of the example with 4 enhancers and that means 0,08199 and the actual cost is 8,199 ped per 100 drops.
 
Philip Mercer said:
I love this guide. Last night I decided to read it again for 5th time maybe.
But I think there is miscalculation here.
In the given example 100 drops X 1,863 pec = 1,863 ped.
Hows that we break 4 enhancers that will cost us 6,4 ped?!?!?. Check the underlined red words in the quote.
I think the correct calculation should be this:
F-106 decay is 0,01799 ped and then we add the 0,064 ped of the example with 4 enhancers and that means 0,08199 and the actual cost is 8,199 ped per 100 drops.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, I changed it and hope its cleared up now.

Average break on depth enhancers is calculated with 1 break / 100 ped, no matter how many you putted on. I tested it over almost 18K ped probes now

I also love the fact it helps you that much, hope you are doing better with mining?
 
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Phillip is correct, there is a miscalculation.

The mistake used is 0.064 PED = 0.064 PEC, which is clearly not true.

F106 decay cost per drop is 1.799 PEC.

Enhancer cost per drop is 0.016 PED per ehancer slot(according to OP's break rate and MU), therefore 0.064 PED if 4 I-IV slots are used.

Then total cost per drop is 1.799 PEC + 0.064 PED = 1.799 PEC + 6.4 PEC = 8.399 PEC per drop. And not 1.863 PEC.


Using enhancers if fairly uneco which is why I'm a huge advocate of L finders. It's almost always better to use a deep L finder instead of UL with enhancers provided you have the skills to use deeper L finders.
 
1 enhancer breaks about every 100 ped but not in all slots, they break in 1 random slot, so if you are using 4 enhancers and do 100 drops only 1 breaks and not 4 during those drops

This is why using enhancers is much more eco than L finders, also cause the decay on UNL is way lower than on L finders.

Using depth enhancers on L finders is more un-eco cause they break very fast. Compare the dam enh on UNL/L weapons.
 
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Hope this clears it all out :

Also decay on UNL finders is a lot less.
For example let's go try to find gold with the average depth of 822
Each drop with the F-106 (without enhancers) will cost you 0,01799 ped
Assuming you pay 200% for 1 depth enhancer, it will cost 0,80 *200% = 0,016 ped / drop (estimated 1 break after 100 drops), they will break random in any slot even when using 10 depth enhancers in 10 different slots
So using the F-106 (with enhancers) costs a totall of 0,03399 Ped / drop in decay
So using the Terramaster 5 (without enhancers) will cost you 0,04125 Ped / drop in decay

Keep in mind that enhancers can break grouped .... so you can do runs of a few hundred peds without breaking 1, then suddenly 1-2-3 break fast, so work with huge averages to count those.

For the moment I'm also testing others depths with (mini) finders like F-101 - F-102 etc ....

I believe any resource can be found in let's say any layer. WHAT you find depends on the finder

For some this is really very different and can be mined very cheap in decay with even finders like F-103 - F-104 .... (without depth enhancers) cause i dont see the point for going that deep anymore (and spend more decay) except for some ores that have a deep minimum depth.
Compare it with shooting a chirpy with a big gun :p

I'm really mining as eco as possible and still getting globals (cycling), no matter how much decay was spend.
This way my average TT return for this year is 117,44% with an average of dropping 18K ped probes / month (not using amps)
 
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LeelooM said:
I'm really mining as eco as possible and still getting globals (cycling), no matter how much decay was spend.
This way my average TT return for this year is 117,44% with an average of dropping 18K ped probes / month (not using amps)
Click to expand...

So, this is where all my mining peds went!

Joke aside, let's see if I understand this correctly. Enhancers break at the same rate, no matter how many tiers you fill with them? 1 enhancer will break per 100 peds spent on average even if you use all 10 tiers? I never used much enhancers in mining, but always believed the more tiers you use the faster enhancers break. That was also the case when I used enhancers in hunting.

About the finders, one of my favorite finders is TK120. It has 1.803 pec decay and MU around 150% which makes it's decay around 2.7 pec per drop for 701.5m depth, I think it's hard to beat that with UL. And I always advised my disciples to use F211/F212 while skilling up. They have only around 1.3 pec per drop decay and 120-150% MU depending how big tt you buy.

At higher levels, I would also recommend DSEC L30 and ROCTEC M1-LF which indeed have high decay and MU, but they compensate for that with higher probe usage and awesome depth.

As for terramaster, I agree with you, I never liked those myself.

P.S.: Tried to +rep for the effort put into teaching people how to mine well, but have to spread some rep before I can do that. Keep it up.
 
Yes, 1 breaks / 100 ped dropped on ores average
They break very irregular, that's the reason I counted on high amounts of drops

I loved using the TK series and used those a lot years ago indeed for skilling and low decay.

The roctec I used a few times, but since its like UNL finder + amp 2 (uses 30 probes) I mostly loose. That's the reason I do not use amps ^^ Using amps is like crafting on condition in general (gambling in my opinion), they drain your profit/MU if not very lucky

Eco mining + selling in smaller stacks is the perfect combi in my opinion
 
Asqius said:
Phillip is correct, there is a miscalculation.

The mistake used is 0.064 PED = 0.064 PEC, which is clearly not true.

F106 decay cost per drop is 1.799 PEC.

Enhancer cost per drop is 0.016 PED per ehancer slot(according to OP's break rate and MU), therefore 0.064 PED if 4 I-IV slots are used.

Then total cost per drop is 1.799 PEC + 0.064 PED = 1.799 PEC + 6.4 PEC = 8.399 PEC per drop. And not 1.863 PEC.


Using enhancers if fairly uneco which is why I'm a huge advocate of L finders. It's almost always better to use a deep L finder instead of UL with enhancers provided you have the skills to use deeper L finders.
Click to expand...

When i use my Terramaster 3 GR with 5 enhancers for 100 drops, (average depth : 866.9m ) it costs :
Finder decay TT : 3.225 ped
Enhancer (5 slots) : 0 to 4 then average of 2 ==> 1.6 ped

Final cost TT : 4.825 ped and 6.585 ped with enhancer MU (210%)

for equal depth i can olso use Terramaster 6 (L) with 885m depth.
it costs for 100 drops :4.372 ped TT and 5.028 ped with 115% MU

then yes, L finder are most eco than a low unl finder for equal depth use all the time
BUT :
not very easy to find TM6/7/8 at good price each day. today, only 2 TM6 in auction : around 30 ped TT at 125% ... need to wait for crafter...
when you need to go at 1000 depth you need to add 2/3 enhancers on it and they break quicky. the drop cost is enormous
when you do both search you do decay and MU x 2 on (L) finder but in UnL, you don't do enhancers x2.

then with my TM3GR, if i need to mine at 600 / 700 / 800 / 900 / 1000 depth, just adjust the good quantity of enhancer. and go. no pb to find finder, can change depth at any time. it is very flexible and real cost is less

this is 2 differents ways for mining


(sorry for my french english ... :) =
 
Well the break rate for the enhancers on the L finders is killing me if I use a lot of them. But if I use only 1 tier it is somehow not that harmful. Also I had the feeling that they break more when my run is bad and less when the run is good.
Never tried the enhancer on UL finders though, but I am starting now :)
 
LeelooM said:
This morning it finally happend .... I broke 1 depth enhancer on drop 977 :yay: on a F106 Tier 5 using lvl 1 and lvl 2
Click to expand...

13 months ago I wrote this

I have the feeling MA changed the breaking rate a bit in the last year, but that is just my toughts (feelings)

BTW, for extraction I use the RE-101 (eco, cheap and easy to get ) :ahh: with speed enhancers (on T1) and I broke 1 enhancer in about 14 months, but Tiering this 1 up is a real challenge :p
 
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Have anyone performed a test something like
  1. drop a probe using good depth finder (f-105 or deeper)
  2. if NRF - drop same type on the exact same location using TT finder
and compared hit rates in that case.
Will 2nd hitrate be 0%, lowered or normal?
 
stc44 said:
Have anyone performed a test something like
  1. drop a probe using good depth finder (f-105 or deeper)
  2. if NRF - drop same type on the exact same location using TT finder
and compared hit rates in that case.
Will 2nd hitrate be 0%, lowered or normal?
Click to expand...

In most cases, if you do so, you will get a NRF again, except the system give you a tiny one, what can happen too.

I only drop more, if i got at minimum one claim. Also miss dropping can be nice, got that way some globals, in all my mining history, but that was outsite my plan then :)
 
Philip Mercer said:
Well the break rate for the enhancers on the L finders is killing me if I use a lot of them. But if I use only 1 tier it is somehow not that harmful. Also I had the feeling that they break more when my run is bad and less when the run is good.
Never tried the enhancer on UL finders though, but I am starting now :)
Click to expand...

Enhancers on L break at least 2 times faster than on UL. They are not meaningless, but very tricky to use. For UL, my personal experience is 40 enhancers broke per 6k ped (counting only probes, but I was amping up). I will deffinitely put my claws on a tier 6+ F106 sometime. As stated, what I enjoy the most is flexibility. 600ish to 1kish avg depth just by switching some enhancers which cost, imo, nothing.
 
For the moment I'm testing out different finders (UNL) in some area's to know what finder is best to use when I want to mine some specific resources.

Megan can be found between 190 depth and 1581 depth with an average of 907 depth (according to LBML)

Some results for megan in a zone I use :

When using the F-101 (depth 20-592) I get 11,98% megan
When using the F-102 I get 16,56% megan
When using the F-103 (depth 153-597) I get 17,32% megan
When using the F-104 (depth 233-801) I get 18,40 % megan
When using the F-105 I get 19,38% megan
When using the F-106 (depth 312-935) I get 20,70% megan

Offcourse I find less megan (with lower finders) here but if you compare the costs ..... do some maths :p

From here on I can start using depth enhancers over and over again also and check outcomes/costs.

You can also do that for resources with a lower MU, like Iron sells very fast .... and with a F-103 I'm getting (in a specific zone) 97% so you dont always have to get that very deep.
 
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Kerham said:
Enhancers on L break at least 2 times faster than on UL. They are not meaningless, but very tricky to use. For UL, my personal experience is 40 enhancers broke per 6k ped (counting only probes, but I was amping up). I will deffinitely put my claws on a tier 6+ F106 sometime. As stated, what I enjoy the most is flexibility. 600ish to 1kish avg depth just by switching some enhancers which cost, imo, nothing.
Click to expand...

Would love to see results on UL finders + depth enhancers + amps :)
 
Did any 1 else noticed also that finding a claim is getting very predictable?

I see them a lot more grouped or in vains ^^

Outdoor only
 
When the run is good, grouped or in veins or whatever pattern we think we will find it/see it. When hit rate start dropping or bad run from the start no shape/pattern/grouped claims will save us.
We see what we want to see.
For me it is only good/bad hit rate and nothing more.
 
Hate to admit it :laugh:

But it works slowly, which me & Leeloo have been arguing for a few years now :rolleyes:
 
LBML just crashed, no idea if it will be up again or when​


It's up again​
 
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LeelooM said:
Did any 1 else noticed also that finding a claim is getting very predictable?

I see them a lot more grouped or in vains ^^

Outdoor only
Click to expand...

It's more likely that the set hitrate in the area you are in is higher than average.
 
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