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  1. #1
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    Help when mining

    Started in 2003 as a miner and I still love it.
    Off course I had some breaks, did other things, but mining has also completely changed over the years and is very stable.
    So if you want to contact me and I'm DND (Do Not Disturb) I'm dropping bombs and must say I still find mining very relaxing and fun.
    Mining has become very technical now (at least if you want to do profit mining)

    Hope all is clear, if not, just ask
    GL mining all.

    WHAT FINDER to use?
    Always only use a finder that you have maxed.
    When is a finder maxed?
    If the average depth numbers are equal so that means for a F-105 it should say 522,4/522,4 on ores if you go for ores.
    While mining your skills will go up and you can use higher lvl finders that can go deeper.
    This doesn't mean you will make more profit ^^

    If you didn't maxed out the finder, you can use it and find things, but you will find less. (not smaller claim sizes)

    The average depth means you will find most stuff -200 and +200 on that depth.

    Let's take the finder B35. Average depth is 502,50

    In the pic you see I didn't maxed it so it says 444,5/502,50 not much of a difference but still.
    Now let's count the -200 and +200 on this finder when you have it maxed, this means you will find stuff between 302,50 and 702,50
    Now let's count the -200 and +200 on this finder when you did not maxed it, this means you will find stuff between 302,50 and 644,5, so now your loosing (702,5 minus 644,50 depth) a difference of 58 depth. Claims in this 58 difference you will not find so your loosing peds
    Agree it isn't much but doing this over and over again...



    SIB means getting more skills so that is positive, but I would go for a better return first, not for skills.
    Skills you will need to use higher finders.
    But then I ask you again? Why use a higher finder? What are you going to mine?
    Look at the economics and MU's first, then go mining

    3 different mining types
    The cheapest to mine is enmatter : you will get most skills with surveyor and costs 0,50 ped for 10 probes/drop/unamped
    The second in line is ores : you will get most skills with prospecting costs 1 ped for 20 probes/drop/unamped
    And last but not least : treasures will give you most skills in treasure hunter costs 1.50 ped for 30 probes/drop/unamped

    Finders that use more probes exist but we will talk about that later, same about amps.

    HOW to mine
    Honeycomb methode leaves the least open spots so prefer to mine like this
    .
    Thanks to Avrelivs for this pic


    HOW NOT to mine
    When just running around (chicken run) and dropping bombs you will loose a lot if your not lucky

    WHERE to find what you want to mine?
    First thing to do is download and install Little Big Mining Blog.http://www.mininglog.com/
    While mining it will register all your findings, even at what time you found them and the depth. This if very handy for future use.
    If you zoom into the map of this tool you will notice squares equal to the maps http://www.mininglog.com/maps.php
    If the maps says you will find XX for a certain %, this doesn't mean you will find it in the whole square, you still need to find where.
    But while mining there and using LBMB you will make your own map that register it all for you.

    Mining for enm/ore/trea at the same time?
    No, I never do that.
    Here is why.

    Let's have a look at an area where I go mine for typo and kanerium.

    What kind of enmatters do I find there? (average depth)
    Cave sap (672) - Garcen (689) - Magerian (687) - Typo (681)
    With typo being the best to mine here cause % is the highest I would use my F-106 + 2 enhancers that would let me mine on a depth of 668,7 or 3 enhanders for 711,2

    What kind of ores doe I find here? (average depth)
    Belkar (840) - Durulium (760) - Gazzurdite (710) - Kanerium (771)
    With kanerium being the best to mine here cause % is the highest I would use mu F-106 with 3 enhancers that would let me mine on a depth of 755,20 or 4 enhancers for 798,5 depth

    Off course you will not only get the typo nor the kanerium but also the others, but now your best shot is for typo and kanerium when you do seperate runs.
    In this case I can also go with my F-106 + 3 enhancers, but this isn't the case everywhere you go mining, so plan a head.

    As I go mining for a certain (example) enmatter I do not need ores nor treasure. It will only make my run a lot more costly, but I'll also get what I do not want.
    You will also need to keep a close look on the costs and return, so lets say you are doing a 100 ped run for enmatters, then I check every 25 ped (so every 50 drops) what the return is. Using a portable TT unit is very handy.
    When mining for enm/ore/trea at the same time, will make it harder to track what is going good or bad.

    Re-bombing or not
    Let's assume you drop a probe and got a hit and the claims spawns right next to you.
    When using LBML is will even say how much % of where you are standing is left to find another claim... Now you have to choose move on or re-bomb the same spot.
    I tried it many times and I don't think that I did find another claim at that same spot for more than 5%. Never took notes of it, but in my opinion it's not worth it.

    Indoor mining
    Indoor mining can be done on Monria, FOMA and Hell
    Here are links for FOMA and HELL mining
    REMEMBER that in those area's you only have 1/2 finder range, so if you want to do honeycomb best use 40 x 40
    Indoor mining has a very low SR (mostly around 5%) but if you find a claim it will be bigger.
    FOMA : http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/fo...ing-Chart-VU10
    Hell : http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/fo...l-Mining-Chart
    Monria : http://www.monria.com/forum/threads/...ribution.3567/

    WHAT to mine with a bit of skills.
    If your a beginner there are not much choices yet and you will hit mostly lyst, belk, oil, etc.... depending in what area you are mining.
    So here again its very important that you go to an area where you can find a lot to get skills faster.
    Check area's / depths / no mob area's and start the run to get skills.

    While mining and building up skills, dont forget to take the mining missions for free skills
    http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?chart=Mission

    You can also get daily mining missions that give you daily tokens when finished. With those daily tokens you can get finders (L) I didn't get/used them yet, but when I do I'll let you know
    For 100 daily tokens you can get the CDF Finder z10(L)
    For 200 daily tokens you can get the CDF Finder z25(L)
    For 400 daily tokens you can get the CDF Finder z40(L)


    WHAT to mine with more skills.
    By now you already should have a nice map and know where most ores/enm/trea can be found.
    So what I do is check MU's on ores/enm/trea and average sales / month, check the depth, check where to find them, equip a finder (with a number of enh to reach that average depth if needed) and go mine for those.

    Expert mining
    Your LBMB map is getting pretty full now, so you can start very precise mining now.
    Let's say you need FN (Force Nexus), put your filter in LBMB that way so you only see where you found FN before.
    If you have mined there over and over you should see lot's of FN claims. Did you write down what finder you used? with enhancers? Go there and only drop bombs where you have found FN before. You should get others stuff also but a lot less now.

    FN map on LBMB


    Superior mining
    This is the last stage (as far as I know)
    Now you know :
    Where to find what you want, the depth to find it, time to find it.
    But do you know the respawn times?
    Try it out while your going to an area where you want to know the respawn time.
    Drop probes in a small area, let's say 20-30 drops (use the precise mining) and try again after 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours and so on ....
    You will notice that for some easy to get the respawn time is very short (like for oil) For other things (read deeper) it takes longer, even for very rare things it can take up to a week.
    Try this out only in zones where your return is always very nice (above 80-90% TT return), cause this means nobody else is mining there.

    Go with the flow
    Another way of mining but you will need a bigger bankroll to stock up.
    As already mentioned MA does changes economics from time to time so also what will be more or less available when mining.
    You can see that in auction or when your mining yourself since that recourse you will get more. You might get some swirls also ^^
    Since not only you are finding more but other miners also, there will be more available on auction, more pages, more undercutting.....
    So keep it stocked up, in a few days/weeks MA will alter it again, wait till % is up again, then start selling.
    Still keep an eye out on return, cause the opposite of finding less of other resources it there also.

    WHEN to mine
    Try to mine the same area over and over again at different day's, at different times.
    When taking notes, you will see that at different times you well get different outcomes, compare it with loot waves.
    So you didn't get lot's of typo in the morning? nor in the evening? what about in the afternoon?
    Try and see
    Do not forget that MA makes changes from time to time when suddenly you are not finding as much of what you used to at a spot at that time, call it a change in economics.

    Your weight (problem)
    When mining you will see your weight is building up to yellow ... then red so you cant run anymore.
    Make sure you have a few cars in your inventory, spawn 1, fill the cars inventory with enm/ores/trea and leave it there
    Keep on doing this untill you end your run, then, once at storage, press the recall all cars button from library (make shortcut) and look in your storage.

    UNL finders or L finders?
    Imo it is worth to use UNL finders, since you dont want to keep paying MU over and over again, but some are hard to find and tiering them up can cost a lot.
    Also decay on UNL finders is a lot less.
    For example let's go try to find gold with the average depth of 822
    Each drop with the F-106 (without enhancers) will cost you 1,799 Pec
    Assuming you pay 200% for 1 depth enhancer, it will cost 0,80 *200% = 1,60 ped / 100 drops (estimated 1 break after 100 drops) = 0,016 ped/drop * 4 = 0,064 ped
    So using the F-106 with 4 enhancers costs a totall of 1,863 pec / drop in decay
    Each drop with the Terramaster 5 (without enhancers) will cost you 4,125 Pec

    Most finders will tell you that they need 10 probes/enmatter - 20 probes/ores - 30 probes/treasure
    CHECK this before you buy another finder.
    Some finders use a lot more.
    Have a look at this Ziplex C50 (L)



    But why? Will it give you more return? How big is the decay?
    Since you are spending 3 x as much as when dropping only 20 probes, it should triple your claims, or claim sizes?
    Will test it out when I have it maxed, but .... since its only 283,6 depth I think its only good if you need a lot of lyst, belkar, oil, ... etc.
    If any 1 ever tested this, please let us know.

    Talked to Haruto : those finders are called "pre-amped" because of the higher amount of probes used. Using them should give you bigger claims

    PRE-amped finders
    Cause I was curious I tested a pre-amped out yesterday, and must admit it was fun
    Let's have a look at this ROCTEC M1-LF



    This finder is using 30 probes / drop, so when going for ore only, you are paying 20 probes/drop (so 1 ped) + a extra 10 probes (so 0,50 ped) + decay of the finder.
    That brings us back to most finders that uses 20 probes + level 2 amp that also costs 1,50 ped / drop BUT you are looking much deeper to find something without depth enhancers.
    Most findings I got where all modest, so bigger claims indeed.


    Depth Enhancers
    Adding enhancers to your finder(s) will let you find deeper stuff.
    Every level you unlocked on your finder will allow you to go 7,43% deeper, so this is different on every finder
    For the F-105, with a average depth of 522,4 putting a enhancer into (any slot) will give you another 38,2 depth, enhancers in any 2 different slots will give you 38,2 * 2 = 74,4 depth more
    For the F-106, with a average depth of 582,1 putting a enhancer into (any slot) will give you another 43,3 depth, enhancers in any 2 different slots will give you 43,3 * 2 = 86,6 depth more

    You can check the depth of all enm/ores/trea at LBMB but when checking this with your own statistics it might be different.
    This is because you might be mining on a different planet and/or different server.
    Remember the squares on the LMBM map? Those are the different servers you are mining on.

    Enhancers do play a big role in your return.
    Example :
    When I go mining for zinc in "my" spot ... my best return for zinc and average is F-106 + lvl 1+2 enhancers.
    A friend, also equipped with the F-106 on "his" spot for zinc, but on another server, is having a better return and average with lvl 1+2+3 enhancers.

    Speed enhancers
    Speed enhancers will help you get a claim faster (think pvp) where it can be dangerous ^^
    If you get a claim in pvp, use them, put bits and pieces in cars and jump out regular (NOT to the closest TP). Even if you left pvp you still can get shot + looted in the next 5 min and some just wait till you jump to TP. Your cars cant be looted when you left them there. So jump out of pvp, wait till those 5 min are over, jump to TP (and laugh when they try to shoot you), go to storage and recall all cars.

    Range enhancers
    When your mining with UNL finders, you will prefer to use depth enhancers
    If you prefer using all kinds of different (L) finders (for all kinds of different depths) you might be looking for range enhancers cause they will give you 1% range more.
    So let's have a look at the Ziplex TK320 Seeker that can be used to find petonium (average depth 850)



    As most finders the range here is 55 m (indoor 27,5 m)
    So every range enhancer you use on it will give you 1% range more so 0,55 m (indoor 0,275 m)
    Because you are using enhancers on a (L) finder they are breaking faster also.
    Some might like this way of mining some dont, imo its very expensive this way.

    SELLING your enm / ores / treasure
    I know this can be a pain, but with patience you will get there.
    My first rule is, NEVER TT ANYTHING (and no I do not have 100k peds to stock up).
    I NEVER sell under 110% MU, this only doesn't count for oil.
    Even when you mostly find low MU ores/enm/trea you can sell them.
    The good part is that many need small amounts for tiering up or daily crafting, so its worth putting stacks on auc like 100 lysterium ingots.
    Do I hear you say and pay fee every time? Yes ^^
    Assuming you have 300 ped lyst and usuall you TT it ... so you can go mining again .... to TT more since the market is already flooded.... and loose peds, then go mining again ... TT more .... loose more
    Put 100 lyst on auction = 3 ped @ 133,33% = 4 ped, you pay 0,54 ped fee so after sales (and it will sell) you get 3,44. You made 0,44 ped profit.
    Not really much you think now?
    True BUT 300 ped lyst = 100 times 0,44 ped = 44 ped profit in total, so that is what you'll loose every time you TT 300 ped lyst.
    Don't start putting up 10 x 100 lyst on auction, then the risk of not selling and paying fee is high, just try to sell 1 or 2 stacks of 100.

    If MU is to low to sell, keep it in storage and DO NOT SELL.
    The only thing a miner needs is a finder and bombs, look at the gear a hunter needs.... so you should be able to stock up and have patience, MU will go up again at some point.

    Extractors
    For extractors its important that decay is as less as possible off course to keep your costs down.
    Check here for Efficiency/pec and what is affordable for you. http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?chart=Excavator

    Using amps or not
    That is completely up to you and your peds.
    Using amps will let you find more on a hit so you safe time using them.
    When you go mining in the same area on a regular basis (and I know this sounds crazy) you will get a feeling how the run is going to be.... So if at the start my HR (HitRating) is great, I might put an amp on and see how it goes

    Amps efficiency can be check at the following page :
    http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/fo...ing-Amplifiers
    Efficiency will help you find bigger claims.

    What does a drop cost with a certain amp?
    http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.as...inderAmplifier
    So on each drop you need to add the decay of the amp to know the exact price of drop. If you are looking for enm/ores/trea at the same time, you need to multiply 1 drop cost by 3

    I love to play with numbers in excell also so I can find every run in it, if you do so you will see that some area's will mostly give you a nice return. Use your amps wisely ^^

    Amps on Monria,FOMA or HELL ?
    Those places have a HR under 5% so count yourself .... would you gamble on it?
    Here a list where you can check decay/drop http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.as...inderAmplifier

    Mining on other planets and transporting all recourses

    Transporting your resources in a quad or sleipnir is dangerous so do not do that.
    Transporting them in equus or privateer is also dangerous, so best do not do that neither.
    Only transport them in a privateer or MS that use a website so you can log off on warp and follow on the website when they arrived safely in the space station.
    Here are the links so you can talk to the captain on warp or arrival
    http://www.efa.ms/ and / or http://kronan-ms.info/webchat/

    We all know that warping like this costs money so how can you minimize the costs to get all your resources safely to caly cause economics are best there cause you will also have to pay 7 ped to TP from Caly SS to the planet it self.

    There are 3 options :
    1 : You take a VIP warp that will cost you 25 ped (if the MS is already stationed at the planet your on) and then pay 7 ped for the TP to get on the planet caly.
    2 : You try to get more passengers on the warp by shouting so you can split the 25 ped warp, then pay the 7 ped TP to get on the planet caly.
    3 : Put your resources on auction on the planet you have been mining for 24 hours, dont forget to write down the fee. Jump into your quad, fly to caly (this costs about 2 ped landing fee + 0,10 ped decay on truster and about 1 ped oil). After arriving on caly, and after 24 hours the resources you placed on auc will be in your won items if they didn't sell. So check your won items, click on them and now you can let MA deliver them for 2 ped to caly

    So here again count count count.

    And finally Profits or Losses

    My mining runs are about 100 ped each, if amped 125/150 ped, depends on how the area was in the past. Do a few runs on different hours on the same spot at least 5-10 times to get a feeling with that area.
    When getting a average TT return of 80+% I start using amps 1 or 2 and 80+% TT return isn't hard to get if you use the honeycomb method.
    Watch out if your HR is much lower as usual, some 1 might have mined there just before you came so best leave.

    You do not need high skills to make profit when you count and have patience
    You will not get rich fast (unless you are extremely lucky)
    Never see 1 run as profit/loss, count and make averages, you will get lucky from time to time
    Getting globals/hof's doesn't mean your making profit
    But first off all COUNT and use your brains when mining

    Please feel free to write down how you experienced the tips in here.
    Last edited by LeelooM; Today at 09:03. Reason: Added more info about why not to mine for enm/ore the same time.
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  2. #2
    Stalker wizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeelooM View Post
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    ....

    Selling your enm / ores / treasure
    I know this can be a pain, but with patience you will get there.
    My first rule is, never TT anything (and no I do not have 100k peds to stock up).
    Even when you mostly find low MU ores/enm/trea you can sell them.
    The good part is that many need small amounts for tiering up, so its worth putting stacks on auc like 100 lysterium ingots.
    Do I hear you say and pay fee every time? Yes ^^
    Assuming you have 300 ped lyst and usuall you TT it ... so you can go mining again .... to TT more since the market is already flooded....
    Put 100 lyst on auction = 3 ped @ 133,33% = 4 ped, you pay 0,54 ped fee so after sales (and it will sell) you get 3,44. You made 0,44 ped profit.
    Not really much you think now?
    True BUT 300 ped lyst = 100 times 0,44 ped = 44 ped profit in total, so that is what you'll loose every time you TT 300 ped lyst.

    .
    Thanks for this handout.

    But in regards of selling the stuff on auction, you write it down nicely, but is it also true in practise?

    to place a 3 ped stack of lyst for 4 ped is nice, but do they ALWAYS sell?
    If not, it costs you 0,50 ped per unsold stack.
    So if you get 300 ped worth of lyst, you have 100 stack's that costs 50 ped total to place on auction.
    I consider not selling a stack a considerable risk of 0,50 ped per 3 ped stack.
    wi

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizz View Post
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    Thanks for this handout.

    But in regards of selling the stuff on auction, you write it down nicely, but is it also true in practise?

    to place a 3 ped stack of lyst for 4 ped is nice, but do they ALWAYS sell?
    If not, it costs you 0,50 ped per unsold stack.
    So if you get 300 ped worth of lyst, you have 100 stack's that costs 50 ped total to place on auction.
    I consider not selling a stack a considerable risk of 0,50 ped per 3 ped stack.
    Hiya

    For me so far it has sold all the time, mining again for a few months now. It might change now if many read this and do it also lol, but it's really worth the try imo.
    Even for melchi I put stacks of 100 and 300 on auc and they sell also and many others.
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    Stalker wizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeelooM View Post
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    Hiya

    For me so far it has sold all the time, mining again for a few months now. It might change now if many read this and do it also lol, but it's really worth the try imo.
    Even for melchi I put stacks of 100 and 300 on auc and they sell also and many others.
    lol, yes, you just dug your own (auction) grave as now we are all going to do that!

    The potential not selling the small stacks has always prevented me to do so.
    But yes indeed, if they do sell, then it's absolutely worth the effort.
    wi

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    Since when did enhancers get an average of 1000 drops? In my experience you're lucky to get 50; biggest waste of peds ever.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by slither View Post
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    Since when did enhancers get an average of 1000 drops? In my experience you're lucky to get 50; biggest waste of peds ever.
    I use them all the time on the F-106 and they hardly break. I rarely need to craft them.

    But let's assume they break every 50 drops, it still would only cost 2,927 pec / drop compared to the 4,125 pec decay of the Terramaster 5
    Last edited by LeelooM; 05-31-2017 at 10:25.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeelooM View Post
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    I use them all the rime on the F-106 and they hardly break. I rarely need to craft them.

    But let's assume they break every 50 drops, it still would only cost 2,927 pec / drop compared to the 4,125 pec decay of the Terramaster 5
    Maybe they've changed, or maybe they do better on U finders, I think I only tried them on L.

    However, I believe there is evidence to show that the tt decay of the finder is calculated into the claim size, so this could change things.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by slither View Post
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    Maybe they've changed, or maybe they do better on U finders, I think I only tried them on L.

    However, I believe there is evidence to show that the tt decay of the finder is calculated into the claim size, so this could change things.
    For sure I'm gonna count the breaks from now on.

    I only used (L) finders a few times, so cant say if it makes a difference.

    I'm still tiering up my F-106 (so far only T4) and use the Terramaster 5 when mining for gold now, since I need T6 on the F-106 first to get at a descend depth
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    They break much faster on (L) Finders.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by slither View Post
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    Maybe they've changed, or maybe they do better on U finders, I think I only tried them on L.

    However, I believe there is evidence to show that the tt decay of the finder is calculated into the claim size, so this could change things.
    TT of decay is included.

    This was shown when trying to find II's ( or might have been I's), very rare with a high decay finder, common with the tt finder.


    Rgds

    Ace
    My published novel: 'The Eyes of the Devil'
    Book 1 "The Shadow Grounds" first draft - 100%, first edit - 100%, second edit - 0%
    Neverleave - 5% first draft
    Meeting of worlds - 5% first draft

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