Question: Effect of upcoming changes on guns

GeorgeSkywalker

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With the recent revelation in developer notes on loot. See here:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?298019-Developer-Notes-11-Loot-2-0


I'm wondering how this is going to affect guns. Could their stats alter? If guns are going to be given a rating in percentage 0%-100% what range will most guns fall in? e.g. 60-70?

Will some guns/weapons get a rating if 1%?


Can't quite fathom how they are going to achieve this because most new guns that were being released all had good ratings (in the way that we calculate ratings now). Now if many guns are rated good how are they going to be differentiated so that some are good and others not so good under the new rating system?
I suppose it's this last bit that puzzles me...


What questions or answers does it raise for you?
 
Potentially MA don't know yet, as it appears Loot 2.0 could be subject to change.

MindArk looks forward to incorporating valuable feedback from our wonderful and passionate community leading up to the release of Loot 2.0!
 
[*]A new Economy rating parameter will be introduced, on a scale of 1-100, that indicates the efficiency of a tool and which influences loot calculations. This change from the once dominant damage/pec model will provide the design team with more freedom to release exciting and interesting items with a wider range of damage output and special effects. For example, our team will have the ability to create powerful new items that provide access to challenging and exciting content without dramatically increasing cost to play. Existing items will be assigned Economy values that reflect their relative efficiency to one another and to the entire array of items in the universe.

Not sure how they will combine the economy rating and the dpp rating of weapons.
Will high eco weapons get a high economy factor while retaining their old stats?
If so eco would be doubled. You would shoot eco with high chance in loot.
While low eco weapons will get a low eco rating, resulting in un-eco hunting with low loot.
Or will it be the other way around? I.e. low dpp weapons will be compensated by a high economy factor?

Or will all weapons get a fixed dpp value which is compensated by the economy factor which provides higher loot?

Will the economy factor become the new variable that will decide markup?

Armor Changes

[*]Armor now decays significantly less per point of damage absorbed.
[*]Armor no longer has a minimum decay based on total protection, it will now always decay proportionally to the amount of damage absorbed.
[*]Armor can now absorb all incoming damage down to a minimum of 0.1 point of damage taken, instead of the previous 1.0 points of damage.
[*]Armor and armor platings now decay independently based on the amount of damage they each actually absorb, rather than both decaying as if absorbing the full amount of received damage.
[*]Armor decay is now linear per point of damage absorbed, rather than increasing in cost per damage absorbed.
[*]A profession level requirement will be introduced for non-(L) armors. Meeting the required level results in the armor offering full protection at all condition values. If the profession requirement is not met, armor works as before, with protection decreasing relative to condition.

will my adjusted resto become obsolete as soon as armour decay drops significantly?

[*]Avatar skills will play a role in loot calculations and this role will be expanded in future Version Updates. Imagine new professions that offer hunting specialization opportunities and a way to incrementally increase net loot returns for dedicated and active hunters.

If skills will influence loot, how will this help low/mid level players?
Will this not just increase the gap between uber and noob?


[
[*]Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors. This system is intended to reward game knowledge, which has traditionally been an important and unique aspect of success in Entropia Universe, and to provide opportunities for participants to improve their loot returns via experimentation, optimization and specialization.

Does this mean that players with high end items will loot more high end items while players with normal guns loot just normal stuff?

So many uncertainties that my first impressions are not overly enthusiastic.
 
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With the recent revelation in developer notes on loot. See here:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?298019-Developer-Notes-11-Loot-2-0


I'm wondering how this is going to affect guns. Could their stats alter? If guns are going to be given a rating in percentage 0%-100% what range will most guns fall in? e.g. 60-70?

Will some guns/weapons get a rating if 1%?


Can't quite fathom how they are going to achieve this because most new guns that were being released all had good ratings (in the way that we calculate ratings now). Now if many guns are rated good how are they going to be differentiated so that some are good and others not so good under the new rating system?
I suppose it's this last bit that puzzles me...


What questions or answers does it raise for you?
1. Current weapons won't be altered in their stats except that they'll get an economy rating based on how well they are compared to other weapons, most likely dpp will still be part of that equation, but probably things like DPS, damage output, attacks per min, overkill potential etc. They want people to use finishers to be efficient and lower people's overkill.

My guess is that guns with high damage output but low attacks per min will get lower ER (Economy rating) compared to lower damage output guns but with equal or more dps because of the new equation "overkill".

What raises my left eyebrow though, is will the economy rating of a gun be changed in real time if you have buffs and rings on you? That makes your gun temporarily or permanently whilst equipped more economical/efficient. So you should technically get more "interesting" loot that way.
 
also you could use the kinetic TEN chip to kill kerbs and you need 2 shot and a small finisher, depending on maturity. this should be very eco and kinda fast but does it get punished for being a slow, but very eco weapon? that would really suck for mindforce.
 
What questions or answers does it raise for you?
Why I always notice a surge in speculation threads at such moments. Wait until they release hard facts anyone?
 
Most likely the economy rating will be dynamic based on a players skills.

A new player who looks at the Economy of a Mod Merc will probably see a 1. A high level player will probably see something in the 90s.
 
Maybe the stats of weapons wont change and the system will simply start tracking your actual economy in real time. I don't know. I think none of us do but I would encourage people to not speculate.
 
Only thing i can advice atm: if you're looking to buy high eco guns, wait till after this update.
 
I'm beginning to think they aren't necessarily making any "big" changes.. other than removal of ammo and loot waves.

What I think they're doing is simplifying the game to create more transparency. They're also reducing armor decay generally, which will increase overall returns. So in my opinion:


1) guns will not be altered, but given an economy scale number rather than dpp.. if 90% of guns fall between 85-95, that gives MA a way to introduce new guns at lower eco ratings. As we know, dpp is a condition slider.

2) removal of loot waves will reduce a large amount of volatility.. allowing hunters to use lower eco guns and hunt for shorter periods of time, and not lose their ass.
 
My guess is the efficiency rating of weapons will be some calculation based on dpp, dps and range.

Fast reload, lower damage weapons vs slow reload high damage weapons shouldn't be a factor as it shouldn't be assumed the higher damage weapon would be used for the kill shot.
 
Im thinking that the eco ranking will remain in proportion to what it is now... obviously until something better drops etc... in addition I hope that the vast number of now irrelevant weapons find a place in the system again (maybe identify all of them and make upgrade missions for all)

So best will still be best and worst will still be worst..its like when they added attack speed as a visible stat on the weapons.

Now we will finally be able to have a standard visual stat on weapons for eco as calculated by MA to better guide you in your choice of weapon.
 
Thanks to everyone sharing their opinion.


I'm now thinking the changes may be an opportunity for MA to change the system not just from our perspective but also from their perspective. That is to generate more income for themselves by encouraging more use of enhancements/additions/buffs etc.


Perhaps better explained by an example. My gun that I have up for sale:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?292797-Modified-Fire-Forge-BGH-4400M-tier-3

Currently this is basically a long range, high damage, slow reload weapon. So most likely under the new system will probably have same stats. This weapon can be used to kill certain mobs before they reach you hence you don't need any armour or incur any other defense costs e.g. in form of buffs. Now under the new system it may be that the system may encourage you to hunt bigger mobs that this weapon can't kill without using additional perks i.e. armour,pills,pets,rings etc

The fact that this is an old school weapon not sure how that's gonna go down under the new system i.e. someone with low skills may not be allowed to use it or it may state a low efficiency for them since they won't have the skills to have it maxed. To max this weapon you'd need pretty high skills i.e. lvl 100. So it may mean not many can use it efficiently or may not be able to use it at all. All this of course will affect it's value/price.
 
for me it will be interesting to see in which eco rating ma values the high end weapons into.

like if an imk2 is on ma's view rated at 95% eco we know where ma sets its value of how effective a gun can be from their perspective until it reaches a econess where ma doesnt want a gun to be at.

like a gun or item combo reaching 100% is at a level where ma has set its border to profit from usage of the player.

so community will need to communicate alooooooot after the change to see where they drive us into.

btw. just because ma shows us a eco rating of 95% or so doesnt mean the item combo is indeed good...
 
This change from the once dominant damage/pec model will provide the design team with more freedom to release exciting and interesting items with a wider range of damage output and special effects. For example, our team will have the ability to create powerful new items that provide access to challenging and exciting content without dramatically increasing cost to play.

In relation to your gun GeorgeSkywalker that is the part of the dev note that would concern me the most.
 
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uber with LOW LVL SIB weapon

Just for use case ...

1. Consider Uber (regardless of circumstances why he/she) using a lvl 5 SIB weapon - Would that uber be penalized hunting Foul Youngs...

2. Constant hunting "under" levels - I am mostly doing upto max 2 PED mobs (most ~ 1 PED/kill) ... Maxed LC-100 + A106 ... @ LVL 52 ... + Finishers .... Would I get pushed go after to Higher mobs ...sadly .. I would just stop... as I am playing on fixed budget/month....

3. Bancroll, would MA push to have "Longer runs ... " (usueally I do 1 repair and that enough 4 me (~ 380 PED Offence cost /run in good spawn ~ 50 min time) Would I be pushed to waste mor RL time as MA just want .... sorry nope ...I am much less active than I was .... (Now Often have 50% ... 70% TT runs and Yes same mobs .... same spots) - do not see reason to increase

4. nonSIB + Finisher (for like lvl 50 and below)

5. SIB +Melee + MF + Finisher ....

6. Team... Factoring (I really Liked teamhunting what are almost not happening anymore,.. :( )

7. MA Promise on 98% ... Be carefull ... I have run Maxed L BPs what are indicating "95% success".... with no success for 27 click in for full Quantity, also time 2 time 20+ no success .. while MA indicating 95% Success rate. PS what is clear breack of EU consumer rights (misleading)

Sooo indication of 98%... I would like 2 see in numbers after logged 10 + runs

*** Note that 98% are not TT ..... Should have read more carefully 9% of player base would have impacted .... but that does not change my statements/Usecases are to be considered :)
PS....
 
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Just for use case ...

1. Consider Uber (regardless of circumstances why he/she) using a lvl 5 SIB weapon - Would that uber be penalized hunting Foul Youngs...

2. Constant hunting "under" levels - I am mostly doing upto max 2 PED mobs (most ~ 1 PED/kill) ... Maxed LC-100 + A106 ... @ LVL 52 ... + Finishers .... Would I get pushed go after to Higher mobs ...sadly .. I would just stop... as I am playing on fixed budget/month....

3. Bancroll, would MA push to have "Longer runs ... " (usueally I do 1 repair and that enough 4 me (~ 380 PED Offence cost /run in good spawn ~ 50 min time) Would I be pushed to waste mor RL time as MA just want .... sorry nope ...I am much less active than I was .... (Now Often have 50% ... 70% TT runs and Yes same mobs .... same spots) - do not see reason to increase

4. nonSIB + Finisher (for like lvl 50 and below)

5. SIB +Melee + MF + Finisher ....

6. Team... Factoring (I really Liked teamhunting what are almost not happening anymore,.. :( )

7. MA Promise on 98% ... Be carefull ... I have run Maxed L BPs what are indicating "95% success".... with no success for 27 click in for full Quantity, also time 2 time 20+ no success .. while MA indicating 95% Success rate. PS what is clear breack of EU consumer rights (misleading)

Sooo indication of 98%... I would like 2 see in numbers after logged 10 + runs

they dont say everyone gets 98% return. they didnt even say something close to that.

what they did say is that the return for 98% of the player base should improve. to what degree is uncertain.
 
they dont say everyone gets 98% return. they didnt even say something close to that.

what they did say is that the return for 98% of the player base should improve. to what degree is uncertain.


My BAD .... :) Added note 2 my post ... 98 % of player base ... and still my points are valid for consideration :)
 
I think it's a penalty, mainly for those who are not level 100 and use unmaxed non-sib weapons. Their loot simply decrease if they use it. (which sucks for me)
 
My guess is the efficiency rating of weapons will be some calculation based on dpp, dps and range.

Fast reload, lower damage weapons vs slow reload high damage weapons shouldn't be a factor as it shouldn't be assumed the higher damage weapon would be used for the kill shot.

Or it could also be completely random like tiering rates.

I'm inclined to think along the lines of too small or too big a weapon and you get penalised, so it might be the best option is to keep a mid range weapon as the finisher rather than eco or low damage.
 
I don't understand why it's needed?

If you hunt with an "inefficent" weapon it cost you more to get the loot, so why do we need an extra bonus so you both have a lower cost and higher loot? Do I miss something? :scratch2:
 
I don't understand why it's needed?

If you hunt with an "inefficent" weapon it cost you more to get the loot, so why do we need an extra bonus so you both have a lower cost and higher loot? Do I miss something? :scratch2:


The impression I'm getting is MA are going to change the actual loot formula. Weapon efficiency rating in a way gives us a clue on how this new loot formula will work i.e. indirectly they will be revealing the loot formula.

Showing the weapon efficiency rating will not only show the efficiency of the weapon but consequently your loot. So the lower cost of using a weapon is an assumption on your part it may not be lower cost i.e. may have to use enhancers, scopes/sights and other buffs etc to get the higher efficiency hence more expensive to get better loot.

Transparency on what a weapons efficiency is and relationship to loot is overall for the better.
 
It's possible that they may be like the tier rates - randomly generated for every weapon, instead of all adj mkii having a fixed rate, all MM having another fixed rate, etc.
 
It's possible that they may be like the tier rates - randomly generated for every weapon, instead of all adj mkii having a fixed rate, all MM having another fixed rate, etc.

That would screw with the "market values" much more than TIRs already do.
 
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