NEWS: Cryptocurrency. It's coming faster than you think.

Did you read any of the above...? Nothing about our so-called "real" currencies is real, as in tangible. It's all but idea, contract, and belief. Maybe backed by a gun to your forehead in some places, as mentioned. We're not tought in school how money really works, and some suspect there's a reason for it. Bitcoin and derivatives at least are trying to make some amends by simulating a limited supply like with precious metal.

Yes I know it's "not real" as you say, but it a lot more real than bitcoin because I can go to my grocery store and buy food, I can't do that with bitcoin :silly2: Yes, a currency is a "belief" that it has a value that can be exchanged for something. Not many normal people know what Bitcoin is and how to use it, so let's say the avarage belief and thrust in Bitcoin is so low it can't be called a currency right now.
 
san pointed it out already but your assumption is still wrong nevertheless.
the total value of USD in circulation was 2008 around 4 trillion.
If you want to go back to 2008 then we have to change the value of the gold also. It's been growing steadily last 10 years. I think it was ~$1.8 trillion USD @ 2005. 3 years later prolly somewhere around $2+ trillion. Few trillion short still. Besides, it's not like all the gold in the world belongs to US federal gvt. anyway...

Suppose there's major "run on the bank" (the only situation where the question about gold can come up), wouldn't the question about the federal debt also come up? Or maybe Chinese would say Oh you guys are in trouble right now, throw us $1 trillion, keep the change! Wouldn't that be kind of em... :)

This whole math is moot ofc. Since ~1970 USD is officially not backed up by gold. Like: not at all...

If I imagine my govt would have bigger debt than the whole GDP would I think like: Oh my money is good in the grocery store down the street. No need to worry, I'm good.

I don't think so... Well, it's a question of taste I suppose. :dunno:
 
I dont know.. putincoin, neverdie handjob coin, and potcoin seems legit.

:D

Some of these coins remind me of the days of 12 daily pro and egold. Lol.
Well... 12 daily pro was a ponzi scam and there was plenty of click ad types like it before.
And egold was backed by the founder's gold, and new accounts required precious metal. Use by money launderers and account hacking lead to it being shut down as I recall, anyways it was the first e-currency.

Yes agree its way to easy to anonymously start a new digital coin currency now.


Nothing. It is all fiat.
+Rep

As much as I am inclined to agree, however...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_dollar#Fiat_standard

There is an important difference between certain countries. E.g. in Germany, "legal tender" is backed by force to accept it. In the US, to my knowledge, there is the (theoretical) freedom to refuse it. So it really depends only on the trust that it will retain its value until you need it for the next exchange. If Bitcoin and its successors are at least no worse than that...

True, most countries no longer back their currency with precious metal reserves.
For example Canada really took to dumping all their useless worthless unwanted gold starting in 2012
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gold-canada-reserves-1.3475818

And as per their website the old coins were sold to collectors which (SURPRISE!) absolutely killed the MU of the few coins that were out in the public before 2012 when they were worth many thousands of dollars each.
http://www.mint.ca/store/news/a-nat...oins-crafted-with-pridefrom-19121914-17400003
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-11/bitcoin-hack-upends-world-of-700-yields

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...th-korean-bitcoin-exchange-loses-5-5-million/

http://www.coindesk.com/bitfinex-bitcoin-hack-know-dont-know/

and last, but not least:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/18/history-of-bitcoin-hacks-alternative-currency

And then there are the "wallets" that have mysteriously shut down and taken all the "money" with them.

Cryptocurrency is NOT a day-to-day system for actual commerce. It is an investment you can use, and then get the hell out before it takes a dump in value or gets stolen.

The Corporate Governments, IMF, World Banks ALL want us on the "electronic exchange" and to do away with cash.

Think a minute about that: what would happen if everyone used a debit card ONLY: no cash, coins, etc. Then, the prevailing political party decided you were "a possible domestic threat" and locked your account? Without cash, you starve, or (at least) have to come crawling to Big Brother, begging for food.

If it ain't in your hand, YOU DON'T HAVE IT. Period. Only an ignorant fool would trust any monetary system that wasn't based in tangible substance.
 
OP, I'm with you on cryptocurrency, namely Bitcoin. But you may as well be talking Martian to these people. They're not ready for it yet... As far as cryptocurrency is concerned, from what I can tell, most here are still in the mindset similar to those who poo-poo'ed the internet in it's early times: "What do I need the internet for, when I have a perfectly good fax machine that takes care of my every possible need."

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

I am not all that into crypto currency. But your comparison confuses me. I don't see how comparing the internet to a fax machine is anything like comparing crypto currency to "normal currency". The internet does a billion times more than a fax machine could ever hope to accomplish.

In what way is crypto currency any better than ordinary currency? :confused:
 
I am not all that into crypto currency. But your comparison confuses me. I don't see how comparing the internet to a fax machine is anything like comparing crypto currency to "normal currency". The internet does a billion times more than a fax machine could ever hope to accomplish.

In what way is crypto currency any better than ordinary currency? :confused:

allows you to hide your savings from people who might want to tax you, buy stuff without a trace and let someone with no regulations hold your cash.

its a bit like giving savings to the guy on the other street who you've never spoken to in the past, to store in his garage.

yeah the inflation is amazing at the moment, but ill repeat at the moment, what goes up comes down twice as fast, you may be safe with Bitcoin as its established now, but the others i couldn't imagine trusting with a reasonable amount of cash
 
In what way is crypto currency any better than ordinary currency? :confused:
The financial services take up 8-12% of the economy in US. Cryptocurrency bypasses this overhead, reverts it back to the economy... At least in theory. Parts of it are already functioning today, parts still missing, developing, improving.

It'll take some time but it's potential is way bigger than most people think.

 
The financial services take up 8-12% of the economy in US. Cryptocurrency bypasses this overhead, reverts it back to the economy... At least in theory. Parts of it are already functioning today, parts still missing, developing, improving.

There are plenty of financial services companies built around cryptocurrency as well as plenty of fees.
 
If it ain't in your hand, YOU DON'T HAVE IT. Period. Only an ignorant fool would trust any monetary system that wasn't based in tangible substance.
At this time, a cryptocurrency is as secure as cash only when you have it like cash: e.g. your private keys (in case of bitcoin contained in wallet.dat file) are in secure location e.g. on secure (including physically) computer or cold storage (such as QR codes on some physical media) and backed up. You need backup after each transaction because you send payment to their address and change to your new address. As much as with physical cash if you let your wallet go (say, to a bank storage cell) then things can happen to it.
If you need your cryptocurrency on your modile gadget, consider having secure remote access to your PC which actually runs the clients with full blockchains.
As for monetary systems, I've seen two major crisises here in Russia: one in 1992 when Sberbank (near monopoly state bank back then) froze people life savings for time being without notice (well, SOME special people had inside knowlege, they are oligarchs now) and second in 1998 when Russia defaulted on federal loan papers after several claims on TV from top brass including president that it would not happen and ruble lost 70% value next day.
Also, many popular cryptocurrencies are made with huge **premine**, e.g. original developer owns unmodest chunk of it, making it especially easy to pump and dump.
 
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reading is fine and all but have you been to japan once? ive lived there and i know the people living there and despite being seen by the world as very technologic advanced in reality they are the exact opposite. they like traditions and japanese rarely (i mean really really rarely) adopt to changes and try to change at all. there may be a few chains in tokyo that do this as some kind of marketign joke but believe me... in japan you wont get far with bitcoins. not today, not this year and not in 20 years.
you dont even get far without knowing japanese. 99,9% of the japanese public doesnt give a single damn shit about bitcoin and most of then probably dont even know what it is...

Bitcoin Vaults To New Record Above $4K, Boosted By Japan and Multiplying Its Value Fourfold - August 12, 2017

"The digital currency bitcoin vaulted to a new record high above $4000 on Saturday, boosted by strong Japanese demand on its way to multiplying its value fourfold this year.

Bitcoin traded as high as $4,000.93, more than 7 percent higher near $3,941 in Saturday dealings, according to CoinDesk.

The digital currency has now quadrupled in 2017, and is up about 40 percent in August alone. Bitcoin's market value is now around $64 billion, up about $10 billion in the last week.

Bitcoin trade in Japanese yen accounted for nearly 46 percent of global trade volume, up from about a third a day ago, according to CryptoCompare. US-dollar bitcoin trade accounted for about 25 percent, according to CryptoCompare. Bitcoin trade in Chinese yuan and South Korean won accounted for about 12 percent each...."

More here: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/12/bit...japan-and-multiplying-its-value-fourfold.html
 
Bitcoin Vaults To New Record Above $4K, Boosted By Japan and Multiplying Its Value Fourfold - August 12, 2017

"The digital currency bitcoin vaulted to a new record high above $4000 on Saturday, boosted by strong Japanese demand on its way to multiplying its value fourfold this year.

Bitcoin traded as high as $4,000.93, more than 7 percent higher near $3,941 in Saturday dealings, according to CoinDesk.

The digital currency has now quadrupled in 2017, and is up about 40 percent in August alone. Bitcoin's market value is now around $64 billion, up about $10 billion in the last week.

Bitcoin trade in Japanese yen accounted for nearly 46 percent of global trade volume, up from about a third a day ago, according to CryptoCompare. US-dollar bitcoin trade accounted for about 25 percent, according to CryptoCompare. Bitcoin trade in Chinese yuan and South Korean won accounted for about 12 percent each...."

More here: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/12/bit...japan-and-multiplying-its-value-fourfold.html

wts bitcoin
 
A very important article that just appeared:

https://mises.org/blog/why-cryptocurrencies-will-never-be-safe-havens

Note: You can read it superficially and have it set off your triggers upon certain keywords. Or you can make an effort to actually understand it. The difference can make or break whatever you decide to put into cryptos now.
Interesting article altho the author doesn't seem to grasp the difference between BitCoin-like cryptocurrencies and ICO's... or maybe he's lumping em all together intentionaolly and trying to say something with it? Someone not familiar with the subject might take his words literally and get the wrong idea as a result.
Then again, he surely has an interesting way of looking at things. In my book fresh, new and interesting pretty much equals "valuable".

Also, I like Blindfolded's comments below, i.e.:
Blindfolded @ LaughingTarget • 5 hours ago
A better rule would simply be to thoroughly understand what it is your investing in.


Example, there's a new ICO every week in the crypto space. Since the space is already crowded with 'alt' coins designed as currency, most of these new ICO's are effectively business plans with revenue models and anticipated returns. That's the bubble! Better understand what your buying with these ICO's, cause these are the .com's of the 1990's. The internet (BTC) continued on, despite the .com failures.


I'm not worried about my BTC, despite the current hype. Its adoption is increasing, its network hash rate is increasing (and difficulty too), it still the dominant coin in the space, its in the early stages of adoption, and governments around the world continue to do a great job of fueling demand.
Explains so many things with so few words, beautiful. :cool:
 
I think eventually the currency fad will sort itself out and only a few reliable currencies will prevail. Right now ICOs are instant money-makers, and any time there's money involved, it's like blood in the water - it attracts all kinds of sharks. So for now, I think you can continue to expect new coins every week which have little or no use.

More interesting to me as a developer is where blockchain technology as a whole is going. Thanks to Ethereum, right now blockchain programming, especially Solidity, pays extremely well. :yay:

I know IBM is putting some significant research dollars into the virtual machine/blockchain tech, and JP Morgan is looking at the smart contract model as a potential means to ledger dividend payouts. Once you start seeing "over the counter" uses of these technologies by "legitimate" companies, people will embrace it. Until then it's still largely misunderstood and many see it as dubious tech.

As an aside, I see Ethereum as wholly unreliable, with the chain subject to fork at the whims of the developers whenever some rich dipshits lose money from bad decisions. So, pioneers they may be, I don't see Ethereum as the chain of choice for the future of contract development. It will take something more dependable to add legitimacy to the tech, possibly from IBM? Who knows.
 
Interesting article altho the author doesn't seem to grasp the difference between BitCoin-like cryptocurrencies and ICO's... or maybe he's lumping em all together intentionaolly and trying to say something with it? Someone not familiar with the subject might take his words literally and get the wrong idea as a result.
Then again, he surely has an interesting way of looking at things. In my book fresh, new and interesting pretty much equals "valuable".

There are two important aspects in this article which are valid whether the author understands the differences or not. First is that cryptos are not suitable for indefinite storage of value. This is because their value is not intrinsic, but an expression of hope in the future. This is a core concept that eludes many investors. Second is the outlook of government imposition.
 
First is that cryptos are not suitable for indefinite storage of value. This is because their value is not intrinsic, but an expression of hope in the future. This is a core concept that eludes many investors. Second is the outlook of government imposition.

i disagree. :laugh:

first, why shouldn't cryptos be able to store an indefinite amount of value? that's exactly what our money system is, an indefinite amount of crap, becoming more worthless every year. where is its "intrinsic" value? burns well? what about its future value, anyone got any hope about it?!? :laugh:

and good luck to the governments trying to impose something. they're years behind, and technically ... well ... not what i'd call professionals :smoke:
 
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Interesting article altho the author doesn't seem to grasp the difference between BitCoin-like cryptocurrencies and ICO's... or maybe he's lumping em all together intentionaolly and trying to say something with it? ...

Hundreds of bitcoin-like currencies have had ICOs.
 
started this topic back in june before ma even had interest in crypto...

so many haters...

market a bit down at moment.

but I think crypto is still winning.
 
started this topic back in june before ma even had interest in crypto...

so many haters...

market a bit down at moment.

but I think crypto is still winning.

How do you define "winning"? :silly2:

It's obvious to me the hype of bitcoin and similar "cryptocurrencies" it's on it's way to die. It will not go away today, but I would be suprised if the intrest was at the same level a year from now. It's also obvious bitcoin is totally worthless as a "currency" and payment method, others coins maybe is a bit better but the still lack support. That don't mean the it will not be still be here in a couple of years, but it will never be any mainstream method of payment.
 
How do you define "winning"? :silly2:

It's obvious to me the hype of bitcoin and similar "cryptocurrencies" it's on it's way to die. It will not go away today, but I would be suprised if the intrest was at the same level a year from now. It's also obvious bitcoin is totally worthless as a "currency" and payment method, others coins maybe is a bit better but the still lack support. That don't mean the it will not be still be here in a couple of years, but it will never be any mainstream method of payment.

well ma is clearly looking into crypto, so much as they are considering their own ico.
neverdie started their own cryptocurrencies.
it's all in early stages.. keep hating though, we'll revisit this topic next year it'll be fun.
 
... it will never be any mainstream method of payment.
That's exactly what I've been saying since 1825 when the Stockton-Darlington Railway opened!
The human body, surely, wasn't made to travel at incredible speeds of 30 miles per hour. Going that quickly will kill you in gruesome ways, such as your body melting.

Yea, I'm kidding. Ofc right now crypto is like pimpy teenager, it's kinda at the stage where internet was in the 90-ties. We have the basic proof of concept, but no support services, no infrastructure and no idea how to actually implement it on a larger scale. That's what pretty much every expert is saying.

This doesn't mean the concept of a railway train will go away. Ideas don't die, they never do that. Ideas can become outdated when something new and better comes along, and then people forget about the old ideas. This new tech is in no danger of being made obsolete by anything. It's so far ahead of our current tech it's mind boggling... which kinda is the biggest problem with it. I believe there really is such a thing as too far ahead of it's time.
 
How do you define "winning"? :silly2:

It's obvious to me the hype of bitcoin and similar "cryptocurrencies" it's on it's way to die. It will not go away today, but I would be suprised if the intrest was at the same level a year from now. It's also obvious bitcoin is totally worthless as a "currency" and payment method, others coins maybe is a bit better but the still lack support. That don't mean the it will not be still be here in a couple of years, but it will never be any mainstream method of payment.

It would never be bitcoin just because of its faults, however you would be a fool to believe crypto is on its way to dying because it has recently lost some value. This is clear case of why i dont bother much apeaking about this on this forum with people who simply have no idea. Sure bitcoin is a thing but the value is so much more beyond it... just look at all the things being made possible by erc20.

We are not at the end of a fad. We are at the start of a technical revolution. The volatility of prices of cryptos are happening because governments are starting to realize they are screwed and weak hands (perhaps yourself) are easily spooked. You are focused on the money and the dollar value on the currency.. and not what the currencies do and the tech involved.. or from a stock perspective.. what the companies do.
 
It seems we have the supports and of course the haters of bitcoins. The question I have is if the supporters of Bitcoins are the one in same sweaters of the coins where they mine the coins in hopes to make a profit in the future? Now if you truly invest in the coin using real money and not mining then I'm all for you in your hopes. But if you are just here to sweat the coins then sorry, the coins will most likely fail. But again if I'm wrong, then please go out and buy the coins with real money and don't mine for them since as you stated they are a great investment.
 
people that baught bitcoin at over 19k are surely no happy it was down today at 7.6k maybe 1% use it dayly the other is just buy and sell were there big swing there are going to have big gambler

that what it is a gamble am i saying you cant make money of bitcoin sure you can as much you can loose also

when this game goes to crypto cerency the game is dead you can loos half you value in a month that greath for the game
 
the difference here being is that the USD has its value backed up by something real while that pseudo currencys only value is the goodwill (or stupidity) of people to believe its value.
a real currency is backed up by gold which has always some kind of value due to being in need for production.
a cryptocurrency has basically zero value. when the people suddenly think that bits have no real value the shit gets worthless. but the people wont "decide" that they suddenly dont need gold anymore.
next thing is: you think cryptocurrencies are nice because they are "safe" from the countries own currency being volatile. well lets say you are a US resident. now the USD goes to shit. when this is happening you could just use an e-wallet and use it as euro account. or yen. or whatever main currency you like. if those go to shit as well... then why would anyone pay anything for some bits on a hard drive? thats just insane.

CCs just maintain their value as long as tjhe major real currencies maintain their value. its maybe fun playing around with it but it will never be a real option.

So what is the US dollar backed up by then?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

here's the comparison for my country: https://www.debtclocks.eu/public-debt-and-budget-deficit-of-the-netherlands.html

or cross compare Gross domestic product vs National Debt here for some countries: http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
 
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I think I will convert my CLDs into bitcoin and ether with a touch of a couple others that look interesting.
For me its play money to play money, and I see potential, esp. this week.
 
So what is the US dollar backed up by then?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

here's the comparison for my country: https://www.debtclocks.eu/public-debt-and-budget-deficit-of-the-netherlands.html

or cross compare Gross domestic product vs National Debt here for some countries: http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

Agree, US$ is as bad as cryptocurrency.

China is doing good, or Nigeria, but $ well if I would have some I would sell it.

I know now people will say PED is linked to $, so PED invest is bad too.
Agree it is bad as an investment, but with falling $, I get more PED for my money and I deposit to play not to invest and make money.
Thats a BIG difference :)
The weaker the US$ the better for entertainment in EU.
 
I think I will convert my CLDs into bitcoin and ether with a touch of a couple others that look interesting.
For me its play money to play money, and I see potential, esp. this week.

Well...if you do try to dabble into cryptos, here's a couple of "headsup" I have for you.

  • Choose your wallets wisely. There are so called "hot" (supposedly unsafe) and "cold" (relatively safer) wallets. However, do keep abreast with the status of your chosen wallets' client. Sometimes, due to an unknown bug, they may be compromised...for instance, the electrum desktop wallet for bitcoin...where it revealed the seed word via json rpc (for almost 2 years) if you didn't password protected your wallet. And even if it was password protected, if it wasn't a strong password, it could still be brute-forced...if you had left the client running while surfing through dark/fishy/bad websites.
  • Always password protect your wallet and backup your wallets' seed and/or private keys. (Anyone who has those keys will have access to your wallet and you will be relieved of all your cryptos in those wallets.)
  • Do not store too much in a single wallet. And if possible, if you have a lot of value, store it in one where you will seldom use and only access it from a PC that is disconnected from the internet (as in one which you will never use to connect to the internet/surf).
  • Virustotal.com is your friend. Always use it to scan any executable files...especially when updating your wallets' client software. Oh...always download it from the official website. And even if you do download it from the official website....scan it. (There was once an attempt which hacked the official website and replaced the official client with one that was "rigged".) Do keep them bookmarked and use that to access them. Never google for them and click the first-most link...for there's tons of smurfing/phishing websites that are made to look like them, use like them as well...but steals your private keys. A single moment of folly will result in you losing all your cryptos in that wallet.
  • Not all cryptocoins are worthwhile. Take your time to investigate them before putting your money in. There are plenty of scamcoins out there...whose sole purpose is to make you poorer while them richer.
  • Always...always...try to keep your identity private...and not linked to any of your wallet addresses. Especially if you hold a lot of value in those wallet addresses....or if it had...even once...sent some into or out from an address which holds a lot of value. All of the transactions are open and can be seen by anyone. By exposing your identity, you are exposing yourself to risk. And open to being robbed/kidnapped.
  • Create a new email, that is solely for the purpose of your cryptos. Use that for when you need to apply/register for something to do with your cryptos...like for instance...creating an account for some cryptocurrency exchange.
  • Never use the same password for any account related to...or even unrelated to your crypto. And if possible....2FA it.
 
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Well...if you do try to dabble into cryptos, here's a couple of "headsup" I have for you.

  • Choose your wallets wisely. There are so called "hot" (supposedly unsafe) and "cold" (relatively safer) wallets. However, do keep abreast with the status of your chosen wallets' client. Sometimes, due to an unknown bug, they may be compromised...for instance, the electrum desktop wallet for bitcoin...where it revealed the seed word via json rpc (for almost 2 years) if you didn't password protected your wallet. And even if it was password protected, if it wasn't a strong password, it could still be brute-forced...if you had left the client running while surfing through dark/fishy/bad websites.
  • Always password protect your wallet and backup your wallets' seed and/or private keys. (Anyone who has those keys will have access to your wallet and you will be relieved of all your cryptos in those wallets.)
  • Do not store too much in a single wallet. And if possible, if you have a lot of value, store it in one where you will seldom use and only access it from a PC that is disconnected from the internet (as in one which you will never use to connect to the internet/surf).
  • Virustotal.com is your friend. Always use it to scan any executable files...especially when updating your wallets' client software. Oh...always download it from the official website. And do keep them bookmarked and use that to access them. There's tons of smurfing/phishing websites that are made to look like them, use like them as well...but steals your private keys. A single moment of folly will result in you losing all your cryptos in that wallet.


all good advice and i would add if u want total security get a hardware wallet like Ledger nano S which holds all the private keys encrypted and all u need to do is keep the 24 word passphrase safe than ur good to go.
 
It would never be bitcoin just because of its faults, however you would be a fool to believe crypto is on its way to dying because it has recently lost some value. This is clear case of why i dont bother much apeaking about this on this forum with people who simply have no idea. Sure bitcoin is a thing but the value is so much more beyond it... just look at all the things being made possible by erc20.

We are not at the end of a fad. We are at the start of a technical revolution. The volatility of prices of cryptos are happening because governments are starting to realize they are screwed and weak hands (perhaps yourself) are easily spooked. You are focused on the money and the dollar value on the currency.. and not what the currencies do and the tech involved.. or from a stock perspective.. what the companies do.


let em hate. I wanna revisit this thread in a few years and have a good laugh..:laugh:
 
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