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The Shared Loot Dilemma

Jhereg

Jhereg

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Why shared loot can be deceptively problematic for lower level players!!!

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This is particulary problematic in loots where there are one or two large TT value items that goes to one or two players. Perhaps I should analyze how # items and tt value of items will affect distribution next. Of course, qualitatively, the larger the number of items available to distribute (the finer the granularity in the TT values of the loot) the better distributed the loot is...

If we define granularity as the highest TT valued item divided by total loot TT value, that amount multipled by the P should give the number of bosses to kill to approach getting your share of the loot to go to even. This doesn't account for swings due to large mob hp of course:p
 
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The math part is correct.

Just that the one shooting a small gun is not necessarily a low level player. But it's a gamble nevertheless.
 
Also, theres usally more than 4 players shooting a high HP shared mob which further dilutes the chance therefore the low level player is more likely again to loot the item as the delta(loot chance in %) is smaller.
Right now between the highest and lowest the delta is 53,3-6,7= 46,6, when there's hundreds of people shooting it the difference in loot chance between player 1 and 4 is within 1%
 
Tina Walther said:
Also, theres usally more than 4 players shooting a high HP shared mob which further dilutes the chance therefore the low level player is more likely again to loot the item as the delta(lootchance in %) is smaller
Click to expand...

This is a bit of a toy problem, but I believe the take away is applicable no matter how many players there are. With less granularity in the loot, the low dps must shoot about same amount into the mob as high dps players to get the high tt loot items, since it is basically all or nothing.
 
I always like to see the reactions from all the participants when the "shared loot" event happens and Player 1 gets the good loot :laugh:
 
Nice post ;) reminds me of my post from a while back, where I attempted to display the risk/reward associated with Sand King for the average scenario (~30 players).

I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "dilemma". Shared loot is fun because of the gambling aspect and the social aspect. Just my opinion, I'll admit I'm biased due to my luck with Sand King :rolleyes:

ZPF said:
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Bukin's Spare Rifle does approximate 3 DPS.

Hypothetical situation:

Sand King, 1 Million HP.

10 newbies using Bukins: 30 DPS

10 players with average guns: 400 DPS

10 players with huge guns/mod ares/blah: 1000 DPS

Let's assume he drops a full ESI, along with 1000 PEDs of Shrapnel.

It would take about 11 min 39 seconds (699 seconds) to kill Sand King with 1430 DPS.

Approximate Damage distribution:

Ubers: 699,000
Average players: 280,000
Newbies: 21,000

ESI:

Each newbie player has a 0.021% chance to get the ESI.

Each uber player has ~6.99% chance.

Average player has roughly a ~2.8% chance

Shrapnel - 1000 PEDs total

Ubers: 699 PED Shrapnel or 69.90 Each
Average players: 280 PEDs Shrapnel or 28.0 Each
Newbies: 21 PEDs Shrapnel or 2.1 each

Costs - Assuming 2.90 DPP across the board (Ubers have more, but will most likely take higher armor decay, etc)

Each uber player spent about: 241 PED

Each average player spent about: 96.50 PED

Each newbie spent about: 7.24 PED

So as an uber player, you are risking 29% TT return or 171.10 PED loss for a 7% chance at a full ESI.

As an average player, you are risking 29% TT return or 68.50 PED loss for a 2.8% chance at a full ESI.

As a newbie player, you are risking 29% TT return or a 5.14 PED loss for a 0.021% chance at a full ESI.
Click to expand...
 
I always think large shared loot hofs should be "designed" so that it is full of stackables - if they are large like over 2k even - then it should contain some items. This way big hof = yeaa everyone gets some, and big big hof = yeaaa everyone gets some, and high dps gets items too.
There is no perfect solution, it just sucks when you do shared loot events and some hof comes but everyone gets 50 pecs because it contained one big item. I want items in the pool, but that makes it less of a shared and fun event.

Just give us more loot period.

2.0!! bring it.
 
Not sure if this was/is (or will be since tomorrow!) that simple as just pure probability based on damage dealt...

Two years ago I practically lived on Old Fred spawn for several days, 98% of a time being top damage there (was getting mission points on kills). During that time several people looted quite a few ESIs, some even several, while I got none.
Therefore it was against probability based on damage dealt.
 
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I have an unprovable theory that the small player has an actual numerical advantage in shared loot.

The theory is that loot distribution of items like that works more like the USAs electoral college.

Each player gets x+y chance of getting the item.

x = points for just showing up
y = ratio of total damage done
 
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Just keep in mind when it comes to the SK shared wave event, if not enough ppl, especially with the latest "progressive death timers"; makes it nearly impossible to finish the whole shared SK wave event. Let's see if the upcoming Loot 2.0 changes or impacts the shared loot dilemma at all or not. Hope for the best, but prepared for the worse. Thanks for sharing OP.
 
I dont see the dilemma at all.

If chance of ESI loot is proportional to damage done, then imho it is fair and square.

I see it as a noobs chance (even though a small chance) to loot things with high MU.

I like shared loot for all participants.
More shared loot for the people!
 
just put the shared loot mobs somewhere where they don't 'get in the way' of towns or other junk to hunt since the darn turrets don't work on em.
 
i also don't see a dilemma with shared loot, it's quite fair the way it was.

but now i'd rather like to know how loot 2.0 will affect shared loot events? :scratch2:
 
I don't think it is unfair, but I do think that newer players may not realize how bad the loot can be for them if they do large shared loot mobs.

As a newcomer, they may think, I'll get x% of the loot, every time based on how much damage i deal!

But actually, they won't because of low granularity of the loots of the large shared loot mobs.
 
Excellent topic.
Here's a little expansion on the math ramped upto 25 players.
Even added some new players joining in. :)

 
Shoe said:
I dont see the dilemma at all.

If chance of ESI loot is proportional to damage done, then imho it is fair and square.

I see it as a noobs chance (even though a small chance) to loot things with high MU.

I like shared loot for all participants.
More shared loot for the people!
Click to expand...

Dilemma, or more precisely the problem is not in the ESI, but in the loot which remain for the low level players. Because (for example) 1000 PED global have roughly 700 PED in 2-3 items and the rest is in mundane stuff. So if the low level player makes 1% of the overall damage he will get not 1% of the 1000 PED, but 1% from the remaining 300 PED which is only 3 PED instead of the 10 PED he should take.

And actually, this is no brainer. Nothing deceptively here.
 
I still dont see the problem.

If our 10 dps noob does zillions of sandkings, he or she will loot an occasional full ESI with good markup and end up at 90% return -ish in TT value.

If he or she does zillionsx9000 of caudatergus puny, he will end up with 90% return -ish. But probably lower average markup...


it is a "high gamble" for a noob with low funds but in the long long run I think it is wiser.
That is my opinion though.
 
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