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Mining returns

tyk said:
The fun thing is that all smining was outdoor
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So was all of mine in June and I still got 79% return and lost over 4000 ped after markup.

I'm taking a break until migration hits I think. Something is wrong/changed and I need time to observe and plan before I start dropping again. I'd consider mining to be somewhat broken right now based on the volatility so many players are experiencing
 
Rocket192 said:
So was all of mine in June and I still got 79% return and lost over 4000 ped after markup.

I'm taking a break until migration hits I think. Something is wrong/changed and I need time to observe and plan before I start dropping again. I'd consider mining to be somewhat broken right now based on the volatility so many players are experiencing
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Gratz on recent tower :yay: Good that you did not take a break too soon ;)
 
XarcX said:
Gratz on recent tower :yay: Good that you did not take a break too soon ;)
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He got a tower, while so many of us are still experiencing the volatility he was just talking about...
And also many of us won`t get shit, and will be left with 70% tt return.

... just to make things clear and to put them in perspective.
 
I towered because 1) I'm lucky, and 2) i cycled 2k ped or more EVERY SINGLE DAY and was without a hof for 21 days before i hit it... i lost 11k in TT prior to hitting this.


and recall when i said "july will be a +10-20k month" when i posted 79% returns for the whole month of june.

swirls only come when you keep dropping/shooting... doesn't mean i'm not going to bitch about the volatility inbetween.. i don't profit from swirls i profit from markup when i achieve 89% or better.


you realistically have to cycle ~100k TT in order to see consistent results... strash's thread proves this.
 
Gz on the tower...

I am working on something that is entirely economic and adjusts itself with real time feedback from the game itself, it does have the ideas of some Rocket threads woven into it as well as info from a few society mates. Will let you all know how it goes..
 
Rocket192 said:
I towered because 1) I'm lucky, and 2) i cycled 2k ped or more EVERY SINGLE DAY and was without a hof for 21 days before i hit it... i lost 11k in TT prior to hitting this.


and recall when i said "july will be a +10-20k month" when i posted 79% returns for the whole month of june.

swirls only come when you keep dropping/shooting... doesn't mean i'm not going to bitch about the volatility inbetween.. i don't profit from swirls i profit from markup when i achieve 89% or better.


you realistically have to cycle ~100k TT in order to see consistent results... strash's thread proves this.
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So you and MA make it clear again that average Joe, doing 20-50$ runs every now and then (3-4 times / week), won`t get anything decent and anything motivating us to continue, other than the shitty 65-70% tt return
Which is what I was saying from the very begining.
Which is also the point of this thread, to let everyone know, both old and new players, how fucked up the system is now.
 
Count0 said:
So you and MA make it clear again that average Joe, doing 20-50$ runs every now and then (3-4 times / week), won`t get anything decent and anything motivating us to continue, other than the shitty 65-70% tt return
Which is what I was saying from the very begining.
Which is also the point of this thread, to let everyone know, both old and new players, how fucked up the system is now.
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You will hof spending 200-500 ped per day... and likely be around 90%... but in the worst low periods you're gonna need to cycle 100k to get there at 4 ped/drop... on average..

a less-secure number is 60k cycled.

any system that goes without this volatility will be a system where you never global/hof... no one will play. Just keep dropping and get your 300x.
 
Rocket192 said:
You will hof spending 200-500 ped per day... and likely be around 90%... but in the worst low periods you're gonna need to cycle 100k to get there at 4 ped/drop... on average..

a less-secure number is 60k cycled.

any system that goes without this volatility will be a system where you never global/hof... no one will play. Just keep dropping and get your 300x.
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My humble opinion is that Mining is in worst state from the beginning of the game. It is terrible for the new players. And simply not fun. Which is the most important aspect at least for me. Making more then 1000 drops with no multipliers at all it is anything then fun.
 
Count0 said:
So you and MA make it clear again that average Joe, doing 20-50$ runs every now and then (3-4 times / week), won`t get anything decent and anything motivating us to continue, other than the shitty 65-70% tt return
Which is what I was saying from the very begining.
Which is also the point of this thread, to let everyone know, both old and new players, how fucked up the system is now.
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You cant and never will be able to do 500ped runs indoor and hope for something big. You would be bitching about your own infliction.
 
David Sklansky said:
My humble opinion is that Mining is in worst state from the beginning of the game. It is terrible for the new players. And simply not fun. Which is the most important aspect at least for me. Making more then 1000 drops with no multipliers at all it is anything then fun.
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Unamped sure. But i find hunting as boring as watching cspan. Surprisingly, i enjoy mining. Never liked the volatility but that was i door mining.

We all have our preferences. Find something you enjoy and try to profit on it. Fun, for longevity sake, is the most important element.
 
David Sklansky said:
My humble opinion is that Mining is in worst state from the beginning of the game. It is terrible for the new players. And simply not fun. Which is the most important aspect at least for me. Making more then 1000 drops with no multipliers at all it is anything then fun.
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Mining's worst state was a few months after mining mania and EP4... you could not mine anywhere and do well..


since then, markups have improved slightly thanks to loot 2.0... and TT returns are higher and more stable across the board for miners who play within their bankroll... this for reasons i do not care to spew into this thread or anywhere on PCF really... but it has to do with removal of resource caps on certain resources. Many miners are achieving 98-102% TT as a result, but at the penalty of shitty markup.
 
Rocket192 said:
Kickbacks are real.
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I disagree. Kickbacks would mean on a hypotethical tt expenditure of 10,000,000 and a tt return of 9,980,000 that you'd be "due" 20k.

In effect, is just the various multipliers which averaged lead to 98-102% over great length.

Maybe the system does keep a "personal balance" of sorts, or rather forced average of multipliers, but only on a very short period of time. I never saw this exceeding a couple of thousands.

That is, a +10k or a -10k can be averaged by enough 99% 10ks afterwards, without the need of the system to payback or take back "those" initial 10k.
 
Kerham said:
I disagree. Kickbacks would mean on a hypotethical tt expenditure of 10,000,000 and a tt return of 9,980,000 that you'd be "due" 20k.

In effect, is just the various multipliers which averaged lead to 98-102% over great length.

Maybe the system does keep a "personal balance" of sorts, or rather forced average of multipliers, but only on a very short period of time. I never saw this exceeding a couple of thousands.

That is, a +10k or a -10k can be averaged by enough 99% 10ks afterwards, without the need of the system to payback or take back "those" initial 10k.
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So you're saying it's total coincidence that I can be down 24800 TT and then hit 2 towers within 5 minutes of each other equaling +/- 500 ped of that 24800 TT loss?

right.....

If you are in a big enough deficit, when the time comes for you to hit a big multiplier you will be paid back between 95-102% of what you had lost in TT value... sometimes overpayment occurs and then you have shit loots until you lose the overpayment.

It's not that they system tracks personal loots, but every avatar has a specific sine wave.
 
Rocket192 said:
So you're saying it's total coincidence that I can be down 24800 TT and then hit 2 towers within 5 minutes of each other equaling +/- 500 ped of that 24800 TT loss?

right.....

If you are in a big enough deficit, when the time comes for you to hit a big multiplier you will be paid back between 95-102% of what you had lost in TT value... sometimes overpayment occurs and then you have shit loots until you lose the overpayment.

It's not that they system tracks personal loots, but every avatar has a specific sine wave.
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Right on, I would agree with that
 
Rocket192 said:
So you're saying it's total coincidence that I can be down 24800 TT and then hit 2 towers within 5 minutes of each other equaling +/- 500 ped of that 24800 TT loss?

right.....

If you are in a big enough deficit, when the time comes for you to hit a big multiplier you will be paid back between 95-102% of what you had lost in TT value... sometimes overpayment occurs and then you have shit loots until you lose the overpayment.

It's not that they system tracks personal loots, but every avatar has a specific sine wave.
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i wonder when those tower will come to get me back 50k peds.
 
Me Really Never said:
i wonder when those tower will come to get me back 50k peds.
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Depends whether you're truly down that much... and some other factors including, but not limited to the following:

1) whether you hunt or craft as well.
2) whether you change cost/drop (particularly if you lose a ton at 5 ped/drop and go down to 3 ped/drop... this = losses).
3) whether you stay strictly indoors or strictly outdoors (once you go indoors and lose you're sort of committed unless you swallow your losses and treat them as gone forever).
4) what your avatar's personal sine wave looks like (some players hit big while other hit a ton of smaller hofs, you still get the same TT, but how you get it varies... it appears I am always running on the condition side of the spectrum, I either tower or I lose, even outdoors).


Edit: I'm currently at 64.8% TT since the tower, over 11k cycled now... mining is volatile as fuck.
 
from beginning of July
mostly DSEC L30 unamped or TM3GR + L5

turnover 11721 ped
on Calypso claims: 1495 drops: 5334
on Foma(unamped) claims: 84 drops: 1600
tt return 78% (-1419)

multiples are rare and small (x3-x5)
one Hof CrudeOil 452
 
i.cromme said:
from beginning of July
mostly DSEC L30 unamped or TM3GR + L5

turnover 11721 ped
on Calypso claims: 1495 drops: 5334
on Foma(unamped) claims: 84 drops: 1600
tt return 78% (-1419)

multiples are rare and small (x3-x5)
one Hof CrudeOil 452
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I would love those returns...


Since July 5, 2017:

I'm 74% TT on 32k input.

Haven't had a 300x since the tower... these be rough times man... gotta keep grinding until the biggie hits now.
 
Rocket192 said:
I would love those returns...


Since July 5, 2017:

I'm 74% TT on 32k input.

Haven't had a 300x since the tower... these be rough times man... gotta keep grinding until the biggie hits now.
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Ye man but you like those damn indoors. Didn't you had enough lyst? :laugh:
 
Kerham said:
Ye man but you like those damn indoors. Didn't you had enough lyst? :laugh:
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I'm really trying to avoid indoors lately... i've almost eradicated it from my mining cycles lol...

indoors used to be a great way to cycle a lot of ped quickly without increasing markup input, provided you have the bankroll...

with the new resource caps and added variance from loot 2.0... indoors is 100% a losing game unless you hit 300x... and you won't hit the 300x multis unless you're mining uncapped stuff like lyst... hence my 13k tower.
 
Rocket192 said:
I'm really trying to avoid indoors lately... i've almost eradicated it from my mining cycles lol...

indoors used to be a great way to cycle a lot of ped quickly without increasing markup input, provided you have the bankroll...

with the new resource caps and added variance from loot 2.0... indoors is 100% a losing game unless you hit 300x... and you won't hit the 300x multis unless you're mining uncapped stuff like lyst... hence my 13k tower.
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Again, huge gratz for your XX belkar (Glad you found it outdoor :))
 
Indoor mining is always a rough gamble. The idea is you cycle long enough to hit a big tower to compensate. Problem is, I do not believe such a strategy is valid... as it was never true when I mined with a UL7 indoor and it was not true in 4.5m cycle of hunting.
 
I would like to share my statistics after half year of logging my mining runs. Im mining mostly unamped (70% of runs), biggest multiplier I had is 400x.
TT in: 40033,75
MU in: 1095
TT out: 44558
MU out: 2860
About 30000 drops.

I must say, I like this new state of mining. I have more stable returns and swings are shorter for me, like in 2010-2012. I hit bigger multipliers (150x and more) every 1500-2000 drops. I still mapping new areas with MU so MU out is crap for now.
 
4ealien said:
I would like to share my statistics after half year of logging my mining runs. Im mining mostly unamped (70% of runs), biggest multiplier I had is 400x.
TT in: 40033,75
MU in: 1095
TT out: 44558
MU out: 2860
About 30000 drops.

I must say, I like this new state of mining. I have more stable returns and swings are shorter for me, like in 2010-2012. I hit bigger multipliers (150x and more) every 1500-2000 drops. I still mapping new areas with MU so MU out is crap for now.
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If the system raises the multipliers in one area, I would assume that it needs to lower it in another in order to balance the system out. What I think is that skills is used in this sense to act as a sort of pseudo multiplier that would pay the avatar back at a later date if they keep on "feeding" the economy.

PS I have hit a 300x multi within 1000 drops.
 
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