Loot 2.0 : Recap

Okay so ive been doing quite a bit hunting since the loot 2.0 change and id like to share what my observations are so far:

first of all there are no looter and no nova/blazar but that is a known bug.

ive mostly killed big wombanas and ive tried it with 66,1% economy rating and with less than 40% economy rating (piron gun UL) and i havent seen ANY kind of difference in terms or variety of items. so loot is not more interesting with higher ER in this case.
It might be that you can only loot ultra rare items when you surpass a certain ER thresshold for a mob but that is hard to tell after a day... so just an assumption but possibly not true. so basically no change here despite it being mentioned.

next thing is that i dont see any change at all regarding the return. with the low eco low ER piron i got slightly higher average loot to compensate for the bad eco, just as it was before. no change.
what i did notice (maybe the sample size is too small though after around 1.5k mobs) but it seems that the amount of multipliers might have been gone up a tiny bit but the average size of multipliers has gone down significantly for me. while i got quite a few globals on big wombs (+-25x multi) -> i got about one per 500 ped cycled, but now i did get one after 1.5k ped cycled and not many that got close to a global.

also it seems that there is less items in loot now. i get less stackable and a lot less unstackable items in loot.

i do like that the ammo is gone and is replaced with shrapnel.

the bonus loot pool seems to work fine and i got 3 or 4 times a bit extra thanks to it, totaling maybe 80 peds.

so overall it seems that the changes are very minor regarding the loot mechanism, apart from the lesser items and lower multis. it seems like they took the battlesim loot algorithm for this cos it feels kinda similar. but i dont see that the ER rating has any impact at all so far. its more like an indicator if your weapon sucks or not but it is not as impactful as the patch notes let it look like. for me it looks still like dpp is the very dominant king.
maybe MA should give a little more insight in what they have changed or how it was planned to work so we can test if it works as intended. because right now it sure as hell doesnt look like. maybe you guys can share your observations as well.

Me Really Never said:

Okay so ive been doing quite a bit hunting since the loot 2.0 change and id like to share what my observations are so far:

first of all there are no looter and no nova/blazar but that is a known bug.

ive mostly killed big wombanas and ive tried it with 66,1% economy rating and with less than 40% economy rating (piron gun UL) and i havent seen ANY kind of difference in terms or variety of items. so loot is not more interesting with higher ER in this case.
It might be that you can only loot ultra rare items when you surpass a certain ER thresshold for a mob but that is hard to tell after a day... so just an assumption but possibly not true. so basically no change here despite it being mentioned.

next thing is that i dont see any change at all regarding the return. with the low eco low ER piron i got slightly higher average loot to compensate for the bad eco, just as it was before. no change.
what i did notice (maybe the sample size is too small though after around 1.5k mobs) but it seems that the amount of multipliers might have been gone up a tiny bit but the average size of multipliers has gone down significantly for me. while i got quite a few globals on big wombs (+-25x multi) -> i got about one per 500 ped cycled, but now i did get one after 1.5k ped cycled and not many that got close to a global.

also it seems that there is less items in loot now. i get less stackable and a lot less unstackable items in loot.

i do like that the ammo is gone and is replaced with shrapnel.

the bonus loot pool seems to work fine and i got 3 or 4 times a bit extra thanks to it, totaling maybe 80 peds.

so overall it seems that the changes are very minor regarding the loot mechanism, apart from the lesser items and lower multis. it seems like they took the battlesim loot algorithm for this cos it feels kinda similar. but i dont see that the ER rating has any impact at all so far. its more like an indicator if your weapon sucks or not but it is not as impactful as the patch notes let it look like. for me it looks still like dpp is the very dominant king.
maybe MA should give a little more insight in what they have changed or how it was planned to work so we can test if it works as intended. because right now it sure as hell doesnt look like. maybe you guys can share your observations as well.

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curious, when you used the high eco did you get more bonus' than with the low eco? i wonder if eco gives you more bonus loot

i only got it like 2 times each so no real difference to spot here. but i guess there would need to be a LOT more cycling done to see a real difference here

Any changes to mining/crafting loot or was this only hunting?

have only done hunting seriously so far

It is known that Mindark and PPs have 'loot tables' set up to determine which mob loots what...

19. Once and for all who determines items that drop in RT/NI loot is it MA or NDS (For example if you wanted to add A-3 punisher MKII to drop from Forum trolls is it you guys or MA who would add this)

We determine which Mobs drop which items, that is essential for game design, we don't control how or when, so we can't predict when something will drop

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it would make sense with this big of a change that they cleaned those tables out of rare stuff til the next patch comes along so that they don't accidentally do something like they did with the waves that everyone bitched about. ... so loot is better, we actually got 'no looters' gone (wish that was a permanent change) and folks still find shit to bitch about, lol.

Marco|SDS said:

Well, the frequency of no loots is reduced compared to six months ago. MA has the ambition to reduce it a lot more and with the addition of fragments and similar very-low-TT-value items there are way to balance the economy while giving stuff in loots. So steps has already been taken and will continue to be taken in the future.

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Wonder if 'pills' will be the next thing thrown in with blazers in no looters?

Probably still tuning the algorithms. As for the no no looters - we've heard that before with the regen mobs and I saw plenty of no loots with those over the years. At the moment we could be getting loot from the bonus pot or they've simply turned the no looters off to try and keep us playing while they tune things.

I remember years ago when I was a clueless noob everybody was complaining about nolooters. There was a lot of passion involved like they've just been robbed blind.
It wasn't obvious to me how getting 2 loots in a row 1 ped each was considerably better than getting nothing from the 1st mob and then 2 peds from the 2nd. But, I was a clueless noob, what did I know.

As years go by I keep noticing how mesmerized people are with the nolooters. Just save us from those terrible nolooters, oh dear Lootius, and we are eternally grateful! Amazing religion, much wisdom.

Has anyone figures which is the 100% eco weapon and which is the 0% ? I asume there will be one since those stats are compared with the worst and best weapon in the game

matthew said:

Any changes to mining/crafting loot or was this only hunting?

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100% lyst and oil on Cyrene.

My tt return is down 7-8% using same weapons, same dpp, same setup, same mobs.

Xen said:

My tt return is down 7-8% using same weapons, same dpp, same setup, same mobs.

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Same. Probably the most boring, worst loot since I began hunting 3 years ago.

vaseka said:

Has anyone figures which is the 100% eco weapon and which is the 0% ? I asume there will be one since those stats are compared with the worst and best weapon in the game

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I';ve seen the 100% rating on an attachment and 0% on a gun.

ZX R-Dod and P.I.G-1 respectively. I didn't check every item so I'm not sure if there's a gun that high. Except for the marco's gun which someone said has it.

That thing would make for a pretty tough curve ^^

There are quite a few items below 10%.

Here's my recap, sorry for wall of text:

1. I find it interesting that immediately following release, Arkadian officials were active in chat and also created a forum thread asking for feedback (on the system they didn't create). We saw no such effort from MindArk.

2. My returns are about 15% lower, but I concede that I was on an upswing before the patch so this could just be one of the long downswings that I've grown so accustomed to, but had hoped would subside with the update that promised better overall returns.

3. I've tried the following setups:

Aakas Fire Dagger + MTIV
EP-41 Adjusted + A106
Chon +A101
Bukin +A101
HK110

I've tried just about every mob on Ark from punies up to around lvl 30, and I can't loot anything besides shrapnel and oils. I am assuming this is from the "using the right gear will be rewarded with more interesting loot" aspect of the update, but I'll be damned if I can find any mob that any of my gear works with. This has killed any markup I used to get in loots.

For me this has just about killed hunting, for several reasons:

I spent a fair amount of money [for me] in my weapon setups, which are reasonably good eco and have served me well. It now appears they are useless for all the mobs I like to hunt, so now what? I sell my gear and then proceed to go through the thousands of possible weapon combinations to try and find one that works with a particular mob? And then repeat that process for every mob?

I'm not a grinder, and I get bored hunting the same mob. I like variety. So now do I have to carry around a dozen highly specialized setups based on what I want to hunt (after wasting a ton of time and money figuring out what works)?

I used to like exploring (I've only played for less than a year, so there's lots I haven't seen). Last month I went to RT and just wandered around, checking out all the stuff I had never seen. I'd casually kill whatever mobs I came across and see what interesting loots they had. For me this is the fun aspect of the game. Now this is dead, since all I'm going to loot is shrapoil.

I'm not ragequiting or anything, but for me this has made hunting and exploration extremely dull and will likely drastically reduce my playtime.

my average return has now dropped by around 25% since before loot 2.0 change. the week before the change i had quite average loot, maybe a little higher than average but that 25% drops is really heavy. ive killed now more than 2.000 mobs so there should soon an averaging out be starting... but when i dont see this coming hunting will be pretty much dead for me. guess we have to wait out where mining and crafting will land with this new weapon lines introduced with high eco
also i have to add that im basically getting no globals anymore on a mob where i got 1 global per 500 ped spend normally. now one after 3k peds

I get around the same hunting results as before i think, maybe a bit more return.
The Loot 2.0 is a very good change in my opionion, i like it and i look forward to see it fully implemented.

The results the we get now will change again anyways in the next weeks. The major part of the Loot 2.0 isnt even implemented yet.

So before start whining, maybe wait till the update is complete and maybe hunt only low lvl stuff until then if you get bad results or do something else?

What all people who were doing good before the update told people who got bad results "You need to adapt" lol

Average loot seems to have gone down for me as well.

Am doing huons, and I used to get at least 1 global per hour, usually 2 or more.

After loot 2.0 , I have had hunts where I don't global for over an hour.

I seem to be getting slightly more mini now when I dont global, but overall, I have yet to come close to even break even.

the-unknown said:

I seem to be getting slightly more mini now when I dont global, but overall, I have yet to come close to even break even.

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That's exactly my experience, too. I have only 5 more days to go until finishing the Oratan Payback mission milestone to receive my Dropship. As said above, given the playtime I was getting out of my money recently, I am now extremely anal-retentive about further payments. I'll see how far the leftover gets me. There is only room for positive surprises.

Based on all of the posts I've read and talking to people in-game, I'm wondering if there was a miscommunication between the balancing team and the person who typed up the release notes, and they meant to say "better returns for 2% of the players, at the expense of 98%".

Detritus said:

Based on all of the posts I've read and talking to people in-game, I'm wondering if there was a miscommunication between the balancing team and the person who typed up the release notes, and they meant to say "better returns for 2% of the players, at the expense of 98%".

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Actually, I'm thinking of something else... we always assumed that we're among the 98% players that should see loot improvements...

But think of this... in all games (true, in Entropia maybe less than others, but still) most people are just focusing on playing the game - they don't track things, they don't apply math equations to their decisions, they don't read guides, they don't post on forums, they don't even read forums... they just take their information from the news in launcher, hit play (or in our case launch) and pew-pew-pew.

So what if we (or at least most of us) were among those top 2% people that were doing things rather efficiently and we got better-than-expected results on the expense on said players. I mean I look at myself and at all my tracking done over the time (true, only punny mobs, but they still added up over time)... I was sitting at 98% TT return rate, while when I joined I was told that I should expect about 90% on average (and plan to cover the missing 10% from MU, deposits, sweat, services, whatever). Similarly, pretty much everyone I discussed with (either here or in the game), who properly tracked their runs and was decently eco had quite similarly return rates (anyway, 95%+).

So the trend some of us see at the moment may be true, but at the moment their statement that 98% of the players will see improved results may also be true, since it's possible that the few people that we actually are thinking, posting, reading, whatever might very well fall into that 2% category.

I don't usually post anything but sales threads.

I thought id share that my returns are down 5-7%.

I will play the game, regardless of the returns.. but this is a noticeable difference!


//Tac

DoA said:

Actually, I'm thinking of something else... we always assumed that we're among the 98% players that should see loot improvements...

But think of this... in all games (true, in Entropia maybe less than others, but still) most people are just focusing on playing the game - they don't track things, they don't apply math equations to their decisions, they don't read guides, they don't post on forums, they don't even read forums... they just take their information from the news in launcher, hit play (or in our case launch) and pew-pew-pew.

So what if we (or at least most of us) were among those top 2% people that were doing things rather efficiently and we got better-than-expected results on the expense on said players. I mean I look at myself and at all my tracking done over the time (true, only punny mobs, but they still added up over time)... I was sitting at 98% TT return rate, while when I joined I was told that I should expect about 90% on average (and plan to cover the missing 10% from MU, deposits, sweat, services, whatever). Similarly, pretty much everyone I discussed with (either here or in the game), who properly tracked their runs and was decently eco had quite similarly return rates (anyway, 95%+).

So the trend some of us see at the moment may be true, but at the moment their statement that 98% of the players will see improved results may also be true, since it's possible that the few people that we actually are thinking, posting, reading, whatever might very well fall into that 2% category.

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the problem is that it never was 90% or 95% as expected return. i guess that myth comes from crafting, where it could be expected due to success rate but hunting doesnt have that

Here is my recap and will tell you how i feel about over all hunting and playing in my experience in Entropia.

The day before the 2.0 Loot patch I was trying to finish Bronze Kerb. I got 4 no looters in a row then a 1 pedder then back to back Nova's. I instantly wanted to smash my face against my keyboard. I said why do i bother even trying to hunt I stopped of course and went back to my Harvesting. It was a 50% return after 1:15 mins just had to stop. Hunting for me was and has always been the worst profession for me. I want to skill and complete these Iron missions and I love to grind but the returns and no looters are just to much for me to stomach. Fortunately for me I love the game and I also love doing many other professions outside of hunting. So my overall Entropia experience is a great one

After the Loot 2.0 Update to not have any No Looters or Frags I think a single tear of joy rolled down the left side of my face. I can't believe how much better loot is. With the change I decided to leave Caly and head back to Ark because I did finish that nasty Bronze Kerb. Been grinding through the missions and the loot has been so stable and fantastic I can do what I always wanted to do. PLAY THE GAME. I can actually just hunt and complete missions now where before my PED card would get demolished if I was hunting during a bad time. I got stage 4 bokol done now finishing stage 6 hadraada and my returns are up considerably. I am melee using a Hero sword for reference with a Eco of 62.1.


I don't have a big PED card and yes before I was one of those hunters that would go out on a 1 hr hunt spend 200 ped and get a 60% return and then stop hunting. In March I withdrew the majority of my money in game because I have had luck in other areas besides hunting. Haven't deposited since but with the Loot 2.0 change it is making me want to invest back into the game again. The only problem is if we go back to getting No looters again and Frags I don't know if i will want to hunt.

The best part is the loot is so consistent I feel that I can finally use a 5 hr skill pill and actually cycle PED. The reason why I never did was I didn't want to take a 5 hr skill pill and have the first hour of my hunt be a 50% return and be forced to stop halfway through the pill.

Many will disagree with me that are Pro hunters and cycle tons of PED. However Loot waves and how the loot worked before 2.0 was horrific for me in my experience. If I log on and decide to hunt for an hour and it was a down time I get a 60% return then I just am not excited to go back out. It just made me not want to hunt. So overall anything was better then what we had. Hope nothing I said was taken as negative like I said I had some fantastic good fortune in other aspects of the game and achieved my goals I wanted in my first year playing. Just hunting was painful before 2.0. Now I am actually out there skilling by hunting again. So I hope any future VU's don't adjust it to much. I would like to unlock commando sooner then latter

PS- My returns are about 20-30% higher doing the exact same thing I did before the Loot 2.0 change. So I guess I was one of those players that supported the Loot wave hunters.

though you do realise that it is a known bug that there are no no looters, right? they will come back.

Me Really Never said:

though you do realise that it is a known bug that there are no no looters, right? they will come back.

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Actually, Ludvig said side effect not a bug and he said through loot or missions.

So my bet is that they won't come back in loot, but we'll have certain missions to get them so we can still tier up our items.

Ludvig|MindArk said:

MindArk is aware that Nova and Blazar Fragments are currently not appearing in hunting loot. The good news is that this is a side effect of the improvements to net loot returns and minimum loot values.

Fragments will be made available again in loot and/or missions in an upcoming patch.

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DoA said:

Actually, Ludvig said side effect not a bug and he said through loot or missions.

So my bet is that they won't come back in loot, but we'll have certain missions to get them so we can still tier up our items.

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Pretty sure we all have enough Frags in storage to last a decade though. I mean just on caly I have over 120k Frags. I am only 1 person and how long would that last everyone

Today returns and spirits are up again. Who says a bit of whining and threatening doesn't help Keep it up just a little bit please, I more happily depo into upswings... while several days of cutting funds in half brings everything to a grinding halt. Must be hard to find the perfect balance for dynamic, all folks being different.

The Abomb said:

Pretty sure we all have enough Frags in storage to last a decade though. I mean just on caly I have over 120k Frags. I am only 1 person and how long would that last everyone

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New players (and me ) don't / won't have them.

So, while sure, many people may have high reserves, they have to implement a way for the rest of us to get them too.

DoA said:

New players (and me ) don't / won't have them.

So, while sure, many people may have high reserves, they have to implement a way for the rest of us to get them too.

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More then happy to give you some


You are right there should be a way to get some. I just was saying we also need a way to remove the massive abundance of them too. 500 frags would fix most new players needs for a bit. So just myself can supply 240 new players. So if they do reimplement them soon they also hopefully will give me a reason to knock the dust off the 120k I have so the total goes down instead of up. Keep in mind this is just what I have on Caly. I have plenty on Ark too for that population

The Abomb said:

More then happy to give you some

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OK then; if MA doesn't reinstate them by the time I'll have any item to tier up, I'll hit you up on that offer - hahaha.