What TT return rate % you expect?

What you consider would be a reasonable long-term TT return rate (pick LOWEST you would be content w


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Realistically you should expect to ultimately loose it all... but be happy when that doesn't happen. Anything else and u are trying to hard. This is a damn game. Treat it as such. If u are just after r.o.i. buy a.u.d. and live off their returns... (then when that's too boring sell em to me for a ped below the cost u paid ?
 
i was getting with L gear and EST like 97-97.5% tt return , ill should be over 99% soon...time will tell
 
Wasn't the main problem before there was a pattern via loot waves and we don't want patterns anymore. :wise:

I don't know how loot waves work.
 
Yes but the problem is they've priced it so that most people can't afford to drink anything but Pabst. And you can't get a good buzz off PBR, it just makes you piss a lot.

How does a PBR make you piss a lot? :scratch2:



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
I voted 80-90% but under the condition that some markups goes up 20-30%. I want the old economy back where knowledge of markup mobs/areas actually payed off. The attraction of searching for mobs/areas with markup stuff is what makes hunting, crafting and mining fun and what forces players to learn the EU economy. I see no attraction what so ever to a higher base TT return. Then you can just stick to snables, basic filters and lyst or oil for ever because selecting any other resource would be pointless from a TT return perspective.

And if the base TT return gets closer to 100% the further down the markups will go, and eventually there will be no demand for anything.

But this means every resource has to have a meaning and value, not being the fling of the day/week/month or year and then die into the market oblivion.

But I suppose if all you want to do is skilling then markups are of no interest to you as you just want to grind and tt and rinse and repeat.
 
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I voted 100%. The problem with your poll is that it only has 100% and not more than that. IMO, in this game, if you have the right skills, the right gear and hunt the right mobs, you should be able to profit in TT.
Obviously, most players will not achieve that. Most would not even expect that. Then again, it should be a possible goal. It should also be possible to do that at all skill levels, if you make the right choices. Is not unreasonable to expect to profit.

That's an interesting concept and could work only if skills required to profit in TT would be so hard to get that would take you 20 years or so to get there.

The point where I think you're wrong (not discussing numbers, just principles) is that instead of adjusting your expectations to realities you kinda expect the realities to adjust to your expectations; more exactly instead of hunting according to your budget, you're complaining why you can't hunt what you want with your budget (not saying you specifically, a generic you). Is like IRL instead of making your purchases according to our budget, we would keep whining that certain things are too expensive just because we don't afford them (and yeah, there are a LOT of things I don't afford and I'm still not complaining about it).

And about that guy saying one needs 40,000 PEDs to hunt Atrox young... you read that wrong, what he said there (and even then he exaggerated) is that this would be the amount needed to ride even the longest bad swings and still end up with the average results. It's not something you realistically need to have; if that would be the case instead it would be outrageous.

The different views we have is because the past experiences we had, we had a much better return on PED spent in the past so it doesn't make sense to accept anything lower now.
You can't expect to have a happy customer if in the past they could play the game for 100USD/month and now it cost 1000USD, doing same things.
Of course MA can say that they want to sell their "entertainment" for more now, it doesn't make sense but they could do that and we need to adapt.
I adapted and I almost stopped playing.
 
The different views we have is because the past experiences we had, we had a much better return on PED spent in the past so it doesn't make sense to accept anything lower now.
You can't expect to have a happy customer if in the past they could play the game for 100USD/month and now it cost 1000USD, doing same things. Of course, MA can say that they want to sell their "entertainment" for more now, it doesn't make sense but they could do that and we need to adapt. I adapted and I almost stopped playing.

It is, obviously, very possible that I'm wrong here since I'm just theorizing, but I don't actually think that MA became greedier or that they raised the cost of their entertainment product, but that the increased cost of playing for some of us is to be "blamed" (well, not really blamed, but you got the idea) on the other players.

I think is obvious for everyone that MA must keep a share of all money coming in the system (for paying expenses, for supporting development costs, for their own profit share, for PPs profit share, for deed owners profit share, etc) so the cumulated returns of all players will be lower than their cumulated expenses (money out = money in - MA rake). Let's presume for the sake of explanation that MA's rake is 2% (not saying that it is that or that it should be that, I just picked that since many people claim that's casino's rakes). Now, if MA would be a casino, where all players have pretty much equal chances, our average return would be identical, said (money in - MA rake), or in our example, 100% - 2% MA rake = 98% return rates.

But MA is not a casino and we're basically in a PvP game (not the kind of pew-pew-pew, I killed you, but an economic PVP one)... for every player getting returns above the average threshold (98% in our example) there must be another player getting return bellow said average threshold, because the sum will always be constant (98% in our example). So, the average hunter would not get profit or break even, but instead
would get the average returns (98% in our example), the hunter that hunts more eco than the average hunter would get higher returns (>98% in our example) and the hunter that hunts less eco than the average hunter would get lower returns (<98% in our example). The bigger the difference from the average player (either higher or lower), the bigger the difference from the average return (98% in our example).

Ok, far now all was simple and I think everyone already knew or at least understood this. Now the problem that a lot of people seem to fail to understand is that said average is not a constant, but a variable. As time passes people get better gear (think only rings if you need an example), better skills (so more people can use maxed gear), better knowledge (so fewer people do stupid things like using not maxed gear) so the average gets better and better. That means that in order to be able to maintain returns from before, we all have to adapt and also improve our gear and playstyle at least at the same speed as the average hunter; otherwise, we'll just fall behind. It's as simple as that... in a world where the average hunter is using a modified ares ring, buying the improved ares ring wouldn't make us more eco than before rings were introduced (and give us hope to same returns) and not even allow us to keep up with the trend (and give us hope to similar returns), but just allow us to not fall so far behind (and minimize our losses).

And that's not something specific to EU, but to all competitive playing fields... for example, if Eddy Merckx would be summoned in present with his 1972 bike and be asked to compete in a cycling event his personal record (which at that time was a world record that lasted for over a decade) would not even allow him to end in the first half. And that not because his skills/gear/times would be worse in absolute values, but just because they would be worse in relative values compared to the competitors. Or as Will Rogers once said, "in life is not enough to choose the right path; if you don't move fast enough you'll end up stumbled by the ones coming from behind."

So, if you want to maintain your cost to play (as in return rate, because otherwise is obvious that when you multiply the amount of money cycled you'll also multiply the absolute value of loss) don't get stuck in your old habits and don't stick with your old gear... instead keep adapting, keep improving, at least at the same pace that the average hunter is doing it, because otherwise, you'll inevitably fall behind and then come here on forum complaining that loot took a nose dive while you haven't done anything different (not talking specifically about you, but just addressing to a generic you). Well, not doing anything different was exactly the reason why this happened and was expected to happen...
 
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Just as a couple of points to add:
tt return should be considered as the "bank rake" rate. I see no reason why this should be the same right across the ped/hour turnover spectrum, as highlighted in the discussion above about the resulting costs per hour. I would expect fast turnovers to permit slightly higher returns in some way, for example by powerful guns lowering the regen amount on mobs (and higher rake on regen hp loot consideration).
For mining it could be that a high-powered amp has a better eco, and could also be used in crafting (maximisation?).

Then comes the question of mu, which is in effect "pvp economics". If higher skills affect loot in such a way that more mu can be obtained, then this factor can also lower the gap between returns and 100%, or even swing things above 100%.

Personally I aim to straddle the 100% line - less than that in tt returns, more than that after mu! For both of these to come about I need to hope that tt returns are about 97% for me and still enjoyable for my "economic pvp" oppenents who buy what I want to sell.
 
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LOL 15% think 100%+ is reasonable. So you think it's REASONABLE for a company to pay you to play a video game that takes virtually no effort and also hire a staff to continually monitor and attempt to improve the game?
 
Anywhere from 40% to 98%. "It's dynamic". :rolleyes:
 
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