[Loot 2.0] finishers: which one to use?

Since VU 15.15, it would seem that the discussion that may have existed before on wether or not to us finishers is no longer relevant: the release notes do not leave a lot of room for other interpretation.

Bertha Bot said:

Notice
Loot Changes
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• Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors. This system is intended to reward game knowledge, which has traditionally been an important and unique aspect of success in Entropia Universe, and to provide opportunities for participants to improve their loot returns via experimentation, optimization and specialization.

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Originally Posted Here

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Assuming there is a benifit to using a finisher to prevent overkill damage, the obvious question becomes: which one should I use?

I think there is a balance between excessive time and cost to kill and overkill damage: hitting a 100hp mob 3 times until only 15hp remain and then hitting it another 10+ times with a tiny weapon may result in a negligable overkill but seems to conflict with the excessive time to kill argument...

What are in your experience and/or opinion suitable finishers?

I would be inclined to say that what is a good finisher depends on:

1. the size (Max Dmg) of your primary weapon
2. the size (Min Dmg) of your primary weapon (50% of above for Maxed out Weapons)
3. possibly the HP of the mob you're hunting

For example: I have often used my Archon's Sword (max Dmg = 53) as a finisher, some people have told me that is a way to big weapon for a finisher, but given that my primary weapons is a Combat Mace Mk. V with Melee Amp VI (combined Max Dmg = 114 + 28 = 142).
The min Dmg of my Primary Weapon Combination is ~1.5 times the Max Dmg of my finisher.
Usually I need one or two hits with my finisher to finish the job / mob.

Both my Primary weapon and my finisher are Maxed Out, all my hits (except for Crits) are between 50% and 100% of Max Dmg.
I could probably choose to use a smaller weapon as finisher, but this would probably mean more time for mob regen. I also find it easier to tell from a mobs healthbar if another hit with the primary weapon will likely kill the mob (ignoring Crits), and when to switch to the finisher.
The bigger the difference between the Primary and the Finisher, the harder this gets - and the bigger the chance to accidentally kill the mob with your primary weapon and risk higher overkill damage again.

What are your thoughts?

The max dmg of your finisher should be at most the minimum dmg of your main.

Which ones to use you mean?

For maximum efficiency, use at least two.

Main finisher 1/3 effective damage of your main gun.
2nd finisher for that last 10-20 hp.

Timing is important, sometimes it's worth only using main finisher, because of regen mob. Or not at all.

I'm on the same page with all of the above, but I normally carry 3 to 5 weapons keyed in order of size, using the mob's remaining health bar to decide what to downshift to and when.

Examples:
- Smallest gun I carry is normally Azuro, reserved for the very tiniest targets (ie calypso punys)
- Other small gun is S.I. Scorpion, but the way the game is now, it might just as well be a Proton
- Main gun is the most dps I can get that I'm maxed (10.0/10.0 hit) on
- I carry and go out of my way to use a ARK 300 Prototype (L) for its range, dps, economy and contribution to my chosen main profession (any long enough range gun works fine but I like how hard mine hits) (I don't amp it, the markup on the amps that fit is too crazy)
- Any other weapons I have get arranged by damage per shot between Scorpion and those biggest two
- Before I am corrected for my dpp, first hear the fact that I prioritize enjoyment over eco
- I'm one of THOSE people who prefer (L) weapons because I have better control over how much I spend on markup that way. Thus I'll normally have 2 to 4 miscellaneous (L) things I looted sitting on my middle keys.
- I don't use armor any more. I hunt what won't normally kill me, and I use Refurb, UR-125 (L) (based on my Paramedic level), and S10. I strongly recommend S10 for general use and weakly recommend the other two for some specialized uses.

My finishers depends on the mob I hunt.
The primary condition that defines my finishers is very high attack speed. 60+ attacks/min at least.
In case you miss the first finishing shot you need to get a quick second shot before the mob regenerates.

I use my mod merc, for every shot, at every mob, all the time

for me the best finisher of all is the S.I. HK110 with the sinkadus amp. Then I'll also use the xentech x3 with the 102 amp for higher damage/faster regen mobs. that combo also works when I main with archon sword or laser weapons. I intend to use my adjusted maddox iv for finishing when i get uber - if ever. but the hk/xent is my staple finisher setup for now

I'm too cool to use a finisher

a finisher for me is only usefull for low HP mobs. would you use a finisher on a prot/ feffox/ levi/ ara? how would you avoid the overspending with thos large amount of hp? ie your finisher cost more than it would have to shoot your main gun.

I use a flamethrower, so the mob it finishes itself.

Kristoliquid said:

I use a flamethrower, so the mob it finishes itself.

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Have to know when to turn the flamethrower off because flaming a dead corpse uses ammo

but yes, I've had fun with PlasTorch 1 (L) (same interval as Azuro) on punys and Beavis on prospectors... nothing funnier than Beavis in a thick prospector spawn.

huh?

firejuggler said:

a finisher for me is only usefull for low HP mobs. would you use a finisher on a prot/ feffox/ levi/ ara? how would you avoid the overspending with thos large amount of hp? ie your finisher cost more than it would have to shoot your main gun.

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how does that work?

I'd say the opposite is true: the larger your mob, the smaller the (relative) overkill: if you hit a 75hp mob twice with a 50dmg weapon (assume you do max dmg for simplicity), you have an overkill of 33% - if that same mob is 725hp, the same 25dmg overkill results in a much smaller (relative) overkill
to be honest I don't know if relative or absolute overkill is what counts, this is just what would make sense to me

of course the balance between time to kill and overkill is there and also will have an impact - but still I'd be inclined to think that the smaller the mob, the higher the risk of overkill...

hm Ma tell us the algorythm but not what it do longer time more recover more loot?
Overkill waste of money more loot?

That what we think maybe MA lower loot in algorythm noone will know it, never, it is the next good sound rip off for us

Hero said:

hm Ma tell us the algorythm but not what it do longer time more recover more loot?
Overkill waste of money more loot?

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I really dont see why MA should give more loot if you waste ammo on overkill.
Why should overkill be compensated???

Overkill is just dumb and should always be reduced.

wizz said:

Why should overkill be compensated???

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because it makes hunting much less fun always to switch to finsiher for 1 or 2 shots only, at the end of the day this game should give us fun, else I can just work or play another game

Having too little dps on your finisher on a high regen mob can lead to awkward situations if you get several evades in a row.

I strive to pick very fast weapons, such as Pi-pi-piron PBP-xx (L) (up to -37 they all have 85 rpm), even at a cost of (somewhat) lower dpp. Doing the last ~10% with a 5% lower dpp costs less than you can save.

Well, just try hunt a low lvl mob with a weapon where you do alot of overkill and with a weapon where you do alot less overkill.
Overkill you loose peds in my opinion in 2.0, so i think finisher is still good.
I just dont know how the loot is calculated then when you do the main damage with a 70 eco weapon and the last 5 shots with a 40 eco weapon ...

Dollymaus said:

because it makes hunting much less fun always to switch to finsiher for 1 or 2 shots only, at the end of the day this game should give us fun, else I can just work or play another game

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Thats not a good reason.
You can have the fun, and you can be lazy. But then just be prepared to pay for it.