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  1. #111
    Old Alpha Detritus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divinity View Post
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    It is possible. All the checking and calculations will happen locally on your pc and a bunch of numbers will be passed over to MA server which will calculate result and pass it over which again is locally converted to show you your loot.
    As a software engineer with experience in the game industry, I disagree. It would be far too easy to exploit locally. I could easily make a memory trainer that told the server whatever I wanted. With almost all MMOs (and especially with real-world money involved) everything is done on the server. You can actually see this in EU hunting, that's why you get the "failed" messages. Every shot, every fap, every time you interact with anything, you submit a request to do so to the server and it responds with a result. All tracking and calculations are server-side. The client is little more than a fancy output window.

    That being said, your answer is still correct in that it's most definitely possible to track every detail of the hunt and they would need to do so to calculate the loot. It's unlikely the data is kept in memory for very long, however, and it's not likely stored.

  2. #112
    Elite Divinity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detritus View Post
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    As a software engineer with experience in the game industry, I disagree. It would be far too easy to exploit locally. I could easily make a memory trainer that told the server whatever I wanted. With almost all MMOs (and especially with real-world money involved) everything is done on the server. You can actually see this in EU hunting, that's why you get the "failed" messages. Every shot, every fap, every time you interact with anything, you submit a request to do so to the server and it responds with a result. All tracking and calculations are server-side. The client is little more than a fancy output window.

    That being said, your answer is still correct in that it's most definitely possible to track every detail of the hunt and they would need to do so to calculate the loot. It's unlikely the data is kept in memory for very long, however, and it's not likely stored.

    I agree on this that the failed messages do imply that every hit is being acknowledged by the server, else the issue of failed would not happen to begin with. One of my "Duh" moments really cause I also agree with your exploit comment since we had to implement server side authentication ourselves for an rng dice based game which initially we had thought of keeping client side.

  3. #113
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    Ahhh... Either MA's statement is clear as mud or I suspect this will be the most intense global dpp nerf this game has ever seen.

  4. #114
    Stalker Fifth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrax View Post
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    ... this is effectively the announcement that the loot engine considers markup when generating loot at kill time.
    Yes, certainly seems that way. Don't know about the rest of 2.0 ('cuz I prolly don't really understand it) but this idea is brilliant.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrax View Post
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    sorry I skipped most of the calculations, but I couldn't help noticing that this is effectively the announcement that the loot engine considers markup when generating loot at kill time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fifth View Post
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    Yes, certainly seems that way. Don't know about the rest of 2.0 ('cuz I prolly don't really understand it) but this idea is brilliant.
    Not necessarily MU, they may simply go by rarity, since, generally, the items with MU have a higher rarity.

    So something like shrapnel < very often < often < common < uncommon < rare < extremely rare (or whatever denominations were on Entropedia for example); I think that's the way they do it and it would make much more sense instead of constant on the fly analyzes over MU and so on.
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  6. #116
    How I understand loot quality algorithm so far:
    The system figures out what your gun is capable of, and divides mob's hp by your dps (however this is computed). This is the "optimum" cost to kill. Any increase in real cost to kill vs optimum cost to kill, will result in a decrease in loot quality (even though loot quantity will still be based on a different algorithm, as long as you're skilled enough for said gun / weapon you should get within 7% of max available).

    I still have some questions about all this loot 2.0:

    - is there any penalty (on either the loot quality / quantity) in the new loot system for changing weapons (using multiple weapons) to kill the same mob? (other than the max 7% variance based on weapon efficiency)

    - does the hot from restoration chips and HoT faps count as interrupting damage dealing? or are we only talking about lowering overall dps compared to weapon base dps

    - if the optimal loot is based on keeping as close as possible to weapon's dps (as little regen as possible, as little overkills a possible) resulting in the lowest possible cost to kill for that weapon setup, what happens when the user uses two weapons (i.e.: melee users or whomever uses a tagger or finisher).

  7. #117
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    good questions bogdanc. I would imagine it's the total costs irrelevant of what weapons etc are used. So if someone used tagger, main and finisher then their total costs for all three would be factored in.

  8. #118
    Old Alpha Antrace's Avatar
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    To best achieve Optimal Loot:
    Be sure to have the Hit Ability and Damage profession requirements maxed (10.0/10.0) on the weapon your avatar is using.
    Avoid over-amping (using a weapon amplifier that adds more than 50% of the maximum damage of the weapon to which it is equipped).
    Minimize healing costs and the need to interrupt damage dealing to heal.

    In general, the lower the cost to kill a creature, the higher the proportion of loot composition will be Optimal Loot. There is no inherent “kill timer” for each creature; Optimal Loot is calculated based on costs, not on time.


    To me: they have set a optimal cost to kill for every mob.
    When we kill a monster they calculate our cost to kill that is a sum or a function of weapon decay+amno cost + heal cost + armor decay (i dont know if it is a simple sum or some costs are more important than others).

    And at the end we player cost to kill (PC) is compared with optimal cost to kill (OC).
    PC/OC = xxx% -> more close it is to 100% better is the loot (in quality).
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  9. #119
    Mutated Xen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antrace View Post
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    In general, the lower the cost to kill a creature, the higher the proportion of loot composition will be Optimal Loot. There is no inherent “kill timer” for each creature; Optimal Loot is calculated based on costs, not on time.
    This could simply mean that optimal loot will be optimal loot, and if it cost you less to kill that mob then of course that optimal loot will be a larger % of overall loot.
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  10. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Detritus View Post
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    As a software engineer with experience in the game industry, I disagree. It would be far too easy to exploit locally. I could easily make a memory trainer that told the server whatever I wanted. With almost all MMOs (and especially with real-world money involved) everything is done on the server. You can actually see this in EU hunting, that's why you get the "failed" messages. Every shot, every fap, every time you interact with anything, you submit a request to do so to the server and it responds with a result. All tracking and calculations are server-side. The client is little more than a fancy output window.

    That being said, your answer is still correct in that it's most definitely possible to track every detail of the hunt and they would need to do so to calculate the loot. It's unlikely the data is kept in memory for very long, however, and it's not likely stored.
    Imo build up for loot is a ongoing process, and when we meet certain criterias loot is payed out.
    System doesn't "remember" any value other than those that are active, this is why MA can't see what
    loot we should have got when we e.g ctd.
    Might be several layers and levels for this, since we can get a bonus at certain circumstances.

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