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  1. #171
    Prowler nutter's Avatar
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    ALL the knowledge we have of the game, of the loot etc up to Loot 2.0 was garnered by the community through playing and sharing information.

    Why is it such a big deal that we now have to do this again?
    Think of it as PE v.2 - The community are starting again from a low level of knowledge as to what influences loot return (despite MA giving clues, which is more than we had in the past..), and we now have to produce tools, websites, apps etc. which will allow the collection and dissemination of this information so that in a while we will be back to a similar level of knowledge and those who can will be taking advantage of this knowledge to make their money again...

    Embrace this as a challenge.
    Those who are crying that this will cost money etc. Remember, the knowledge you have to use was made available by early players spending that money in the first place. And by players continuing to experiment, push the envelope, lose big, win big etc. Contribute or pipe down.

    Secondly, who said we MUST make a profit in this game? Everyone seems to forget MA are a company. They need to make a profit to continue. If we all made 100% or more TT, who is going to pay the bills?

    Yes, a few may profit for a while. That is the nature of semi random systems where some variables can be controlled by the avatar. But not all. Therefore we should not EXPECT to profit day in and day out. Not even with the most eco gear (if the statements from MA are read, they make clear that ECO is NOT the only variable any more, if it ever has been), as there have been more variables disclosed as affecting both the composition and the value of the loot. The variable may affect both, or one.
    Owing to the nature of the variables, those who's gear, playstyle, mob choice, skill level and wallet are closest to the ideal variables will profit more than others (TT profit). This is necessary to have players hear about 'making money in a game', attracting new players and publicity. But again. The likelihood of making a permanent TT profit is remote due to the variables being...well, variable.

    Remember, ANYTHING you do which involves getting a return from MA WILL eventually cause your money to run out. Entropia comes from entropy. The law of diminishing returns. Any system where entropy is employed will run out of whatever it is eventually.

    Hunting, mining and crafting are all entropic activities, meaning there are enough variables to make a permanent TT profit remote and any money used to partake in these activities will, TT wise, diminish to the point of nothing left. Profit should be made from MU.

    Now, MA 'appear' to have changed the composition of loots (or have we done that by no longer being close to the ideal variables?). As such, less consumables are dropping. this will lead to higher MU for consumables as there is less in the marketplace, meaning players (hunting/mining/crafting) will get more % returns and possibly profit. Although this will also mean crafted items become more expensive...inflation, if you will, so no-one will really be any better off.

    Less consumables=higher consumable MU = more expensive crafted items = more costs to hunt = less % TT return and the cycle starts again.

    The only way to GUARANTEE profit in this game is make money from other players. Provide aservice, trade etc. Anything that does not rely on a 'loot' of any type.

    In addition to this brainstorm of mine, I have also had a thought about the 'optimal' loot situation.
    If we are hunting for example, and creating decay, this decay may contribute towards the loot from the creature. This would explain the bad returns from those above who are using uber-eco setups creating almost no healing or armour decay. Perhaps the decay is NEEDED to go towards the loot from the creature you are shooting. Minimim decay = minimum loots...
    This will change as we as a community change our thinking from being super-eco to finding the ideal cost to kill ratio which will give the best loot returns per mob / maturity of mob.


    TL/DR
    Contribute to the gaining of knowledge about ideal setups. Stop focusing on the old DPP measure as there are way more variables involved. Be a community and figure this stuff out instead of throwing your toys out of the pram cos you expect to play for free cos you always have.
    Things have changed. Change with it. Create the apps which will allow the tailoring of setups.
    Have FUN rediscovering EU, as we old-timers did with PE.


    Edit: Possibly the wrong post, but also applies to all other posts discussing the changes.
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  2. #172
    Dominant FatherJack's Avatar
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  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutter View Post
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    ALL the knowledge we have of the game, of the loot etc up to Loot 2.0 was garnered by the community through playing and sharing information.

    Why is it such a big deal that we now have to do this again?
    Think of it as PE v.2 - The community are starting again from a low level of knowledge as to what influences loot return (despite MA giving clues, which is more than we had in the past..), and we now have to produce tools, websites, apps etc. which will allow the collection and dissemination of this information so that in a while we will be back to a similar level of knowledge and those who can will be taking advantage of this knowledge to make their money again...

    Embrace this as a challenge.
    Those who are crying that this will cost money etc. Remember, the knowledge you have to use was made available by early players spending that money in the first place. And by players continuing to experiment, push the envelope, lose big, win big etc. Contribute or pipe down.

    Secondly, who said we MUST make a profit in this game? Everyone seems to forget MA are a company. They need to make a profit to continue. If we all made 100% or more TT, who is going to pay the bills?

    Yes, a few may profit for a while. That is the nature of semi random systems where some variables can be controlled by the avatar. But not all. Therefore we should not EXPECT to profit day in and day out. Not even with the most eco gear (if the statements from MA are read, they make clear that ECO is NOT the only variable any more, if it ever has been), as there have been more variables disclosed as affecting both the composition and the value of the loot. The variable may affect both, or one.
    Owing to the nature of the variables, those who's gear, playstyle, mob choice, skill level and wallet are closest to the ideal variables will profit more than others (TT profit). This is necessary to have players hear about 'making money in a game', attracting new players and publicity. But again. The likelihood of making a permanent TT profit is remote due to the variables being...well, variable.

    Remember, ANYTHING you do which involves getting a return from MA WILL eventually cause your money to run out. Entropia comes from entropy. The law of diminishing returns. Any system where entropy is employed will run out of whatever it is eventually.

    Hunting, mining and crafting are all entropic activities, meaning there are enough variables to make a permanent TT profit remote and any money used to partake in these activities will, TT wise, diminish to the point of nothing left. Profit should be made from MU.

    Now, MA 'appear' to have changed the composition of loots (or have we done that by no longer being close to the ideal variables?). As such, less consumables are dropping. this will lead to higher MU for consumables as there is less in the marketplace, meaning players (hunting/mining/crafting) will get more % returns and possibly profit. Although this will also mean crafted items become more expensive...inflation, if you will, so no-one will really be any better off.

    Less consumables=higher consumable MU = more expensive crafted items = more costs to hunt = less % TT return and the cycle starts again.

    The only way to GUARANTEE profit in this game is make money from other players. Provide aservice, trade etc. Anything that does not rely on a 'loot' of any type.

    In addition to this brainstorm of mine, I have also had a thought about the 'optimal' loot situation.
    If we are hunting for example, and creating decay, this decay may contribute towards the loot from the creature. This would explain the bad returns from those above who are using uber-eco setups creating almost no healing or armour decay. Perhaps the decay is NEEDED to go towards the loot from the creature you are shooting. Minimim decay = minimum loots...
    This will change as we as a community change our thinking from being super-eco to finding the ideal cost to kill ratio which will give the best loot returns per mob / maturity of mob.


    TL/DR
    Contribute to the gaining of knowledge about ideal setups. Stop focusing on the old DPP measure as there are way more variables involved. Be a community and figure this stuff out instead of throwing your toys out of the pram cos you expect to play for free cos you always have.
    Things have changed. Change with it. Create the apps which will allow the tailoring of setups.
    Have FUN rediscovering EU, as we old-timers did with PE.


    Edit: Possibly the wrong post, but also applies to all other posts discussing the changes.
    Again, you all miss the point with thr complaints. The issue is not about that. The issue is about the frequency of very very poor loots on each mob that is causing intolerable volatility. For example, almost all eomon youngs i shot were 2ped on a 5khp mob. No... just no. On arkadia, although not me.. but someone was getting 70pec loots frequently on a 8.5ped mob. Again.. no.

    Most of us wouldnt complain about 98% returns etc.. but there is absolutely no evidence that this is in play. And im not willing to burn 70-100 bucks a day to experiment and contribute.

    Weapon compositon was supposed to handle the type of loot you get. It should not have a disaster effect on returns like this for this many. It reeks to me of a broken algorithm OR resource caps being too prohibitive.

    If decay is required to do well in hunting, then my sword should be 200k. It would also mean this change is more about getting the planet partners paid more than anything (and perhaps that is needed for better content).
    Last edited by atomicstorm; 07-07-2017 at 16:51.

  4. #174
    Marauder M Rufen Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatherJack View Post
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    > Continue?
    > Rage Quit!

    Mark Rufen Power: I'm a conqueror & a victor in Christ Jesus.
    New To Hunting?? Learn How To Survive in Entropia Universe!!!

  5. #175
    Stalker San's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    And im not willing to burn 70-100 bucks a day to experiment and contribute.
    When I said a thing in the same vein I got sneered at.
    1. I NEVER post off-topic.
    2. If you disagree, go to 1.

  6. #176
    Old Alpha Atrax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicstorm View Post
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    ...

    For example, almost all eomon youngs i shot were 2ped on a 5khp mob. No... just no. On arkadia, although not me.. but someone was getting 70pec loots frequently on a 8.5ped mob. Again.. no.

    ...
    This. This is the problem. I've said it before, a meaningful minimum loot - a real baseline.

    90% minimum loot per kill would be enough for MA to run a global/HoF system on top of in-game activity. Globals would become more meaningful. VASTLY more peds would cycle, and the average casual gamer would not have to be scared of the game.

    wouldn't it be nice if we had threads about gaming addiction, instead of gambling addiction?

  7. #177
    Marauder M Rufen Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrax View Post
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    wouldn't it be nice if we had threads about gaming addiction, instead of gambling addiction?
    Had this prior to Loot 2:0.

    A healthy game addiction.

    Now after post to Loot 2:0.

    A less healthy gambling...?

    Mark Rufen Power: I'm a conqueror & a victor in Christ Jesus.
    New To Hunting?? Learn How To Survive in Entropia Universe!!!

  8. #178

  9. #179
    Old Alpha Detritus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProActive Mango View Post
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    Adapt Or Die.
    While this pithy neolithic observation may have a more corporeal application, I wonder if something more appropriate for an online video game might be:

    "Adapt or realize it's ultimately a waste of time and money anyway and just move on to something more fun."

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProActive Mango View Post
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    Adapt Or Die.
    If nobody enough can adapt, it's EU which will die

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