Developer-Notes #12 - Loot-2.0 Follow-Up

Doesn't explain why about 30 Osseocollum killed had no more than 5 ped in loot, the vast majority being 1 to 2 peds, hell, one was 90 pec.

MA can write what the hell they wanna write, doesn't change the facts that loot's still gorfed to hell.

:laugh::laugh:
 
"There is no Optimal Loot penalty for hunting creatures that are well below your avatar’s level"

that was the important part. GOOD

but based on the info revealed I can't see any difference to how loot worked before (other than maybe that 7% thing). all the stuff that is detrimental now was so before

basing loot on the cost spent is stupid as it just shows the player he might as well fill a slot machine instead.

loot should be intrinsic to the monster on spawning! only that way it would make sense to minimise the cost you spend on a kill. cause why shouldn't I overkill everything if I do get compensated for it, hell it might give me better loot quality overall cause of the single item value thresholds! that is STUPID


"MindArk is working on restructuring and streamlining the item situation in Entropia Universe. This involves many changes to the crafting system and loot distribution, with the goal of reducing the number of components, resources and similar items in the universe, to ensure that the majority of items have a place within the economy."



about the crafting plans: you can't very much remove existing bps or items, so the # of components can't realistically go down. crafting suffers from the lack of buyers, and that is caused by the lack of players and a free market. remove the auction listing fees and players will sell MUCH more, which will lead to lower prices because of competition, which will lead to affordable items for new players. THE TRADE MUST FLOW, and it can only by removing the artificial factors crippling it into oblivion. get it through your head, ma devs, that you are the limiting factor on the success of this game. you alone can make it more successful
 
It is absurd to me that people still dont understand the purpose of the auction fees.

Sure.. go ahead and remove it. Enjoy the undercut fest and instant elimination of markup.

Stop asking for it to be removed. Transaction fees are there for a reason. Not just for planet partners to make some money but it is also a protection against those who dont give a shit about sustaining markup.

The having more players bit is the more critical piece.
 
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loot should be intrinsic to the monster on spawning!
...

this can't be said enough times, it's the one thing I like the very least about this game. ham-fisted attempts to micro manage something that needs to be 'set free' to hit any critical mass.

If you're going to 'compensate' at kill time there should not be this negative multiplier BS there needs to be a flat minimum 85 or even 90 percent plus return PER MOB.

There's no frigging reason for any player to EVER be -20, -50, even -75 percent or more at any time during a hunting/mining/crafting run.
 
It is absurd to me that people still dont understand the purpose of the auction fees.

Sure.. go ahead and remove it. Enjoy the undercut fest and instant elimination of markup.

Stop asking for it to be removed. Transaction fees are there for a reason. Not just for planet partners to make some money but it is also a protection against those who dont give a shit about sustaining markup.

The having more players bit is the more critical piece.
I take it you're ready for maximum auction time to be a year or more? Because that's the only way to even the playing field for planets other than calypso while auction fees are charged on failed auctions.
 
You can't very much remove existing bps or items, so the # of components can't realistically go down. crafting suffers from the lack of buyers, and that is caused by the lack of players and a free market. remove the auction listing fees and players will sell MUCH more, which will lead to lower prices because of competition, which will lead to affordable items for new players. THE TRADE MUST FLOW, and it can only by removing the artificial factors crippling it into oblivion. get it through your head, ma devs, that you are the limiting factor on the success of this game. you alone can make it more successful
:wise: He's right you know :wise:
 
I take it you're ready for maximum auction time to be a year or more? Because that's the only way to even the playing field for planets other than calypso while auction fees are charged on failed auctions.

Not going to reply to this. It is nonsense.

You can do an auction revamp and make it a single auction but in the end, you cannot remove auction fees.
 
I take it you're ready for maximum auction time to be a year or more? Because that's the only way to even the playing field for planets other than calypso while auction fees are charged on failed auctions.

Even without other planets, it's virtually impossible to create an auction house that'd be equally good for UL items, L items, stackables and weird s**t. The current model works fairly good for items but not so much for stackables. Anyway, no amount of stretching and twisting is going to make it one-size-fits-all.

As it is now, it seems that on minor planets, a larger share of total business goes through P2P trades.
 
In Guild Wars 2 i did alot of auction reselling... There was a auction fee but umlimited auction times, you could even use it as a storage.
Without auction fees in EU, you could even put items for 1 PEC Buyout into auction and with long auction times, there would be like 100000000 auction Pages.

I also liked playing the auction in others games or just using it like the averafe player. In EU i think the auction kinda sucks, maybe because its an RCE, maybe its the system.
Still i don't know how you could change it so that people like me won't abuse it lol. Alot of people would just login to play auction, reselling items, undercutting and so on. Maybe its already the case on a small scale but it would be even more.
 
[*]The Efficiency parameter is a relatively small component in loot calculations (no more than 7% of total loot value).
[*]The displayed Efficiency parameter for a given weapon does not correspond to expected overall loot return.

I was reading this again and these two statements don't make sense together. Efficiency is a small component, but it does not correspond to overall loot return? :scratch2:
 
I was reading this again and these two statements don't make sense together. Efficiency is a small component, but it does not correspond to overall loot return? :scratch2:

Once again you're overthinking it.

The two statements actually complement each other.

Efficiency is just a small component, so it doesn't give (by itself) a full image of the loot returns you should expect.

So yeah, it does affect them, but there's a lot of other (bigger) factors like your costs (ammo usage, weapon decay, armor decay, healing) that affect the loot returns, so a higher efficiency will not always yield better returns (although it would sure do if everything else is the same).
 
I was reading this again and these two statements don't make sense together. Efficiency is a small component, but it does not correspond to overall loot return? :scratch2:

But yet they mentioned that cost to kill is something to not look over...

I can hear almost hear Neo saying, I know Kung-Fu!
 
Once again you're overthinking it.

The two statements actually complement each other.

Efficiency is just a small component, so it doesn't give (by itself) a full image of the loot returns you should expect.

So yeah, it does affect them, but there's a lot of other (bigger) factors like your costs (ammo usage, weapon decay, armor decay, healing) that affect the loot returns, so a higher efficiency will not always yield better returns (although it would sure do if everything else is the same).

There is no thinking required, simply responding to exactly what it says. It says "does not correspond". If efficiency mattered it should correspond, no matter how big or small a component it is.

Probably a poor choice of words.
 
Once again you're overthinking it.

The two statements actually complement each other.

Efficiency is just a small component, so it doesn't give (by itself) a full image of the loot returns you should expect.

So yeah, it does affect them, but there's a lot of other (bigger) factors like your costs (ammo usage, weapon decay, armor decay, healing) that affect the loot returns, so a higher efficiency will not always yield better returns (although it would sure do if everything else is the same).

Once again you see the need to offer your opinion and expertise on a subject that you by your own admission, have little real experience of. Yet somehow you see the need to comment on the posts and re-iterate things presumably gleaned from others, or are simply your assumptions - from your personal interpretation - of the limited information provided by MA.
May I humbly suggest that until you have the experience as a mid to high level hunter, and therefore the stats to make informed comment that you restrict yourself to reading and learning from, rather than criticising members who have played this game as opposed to the dabbling of a non-depo busybody. Your posts rarely add any real content other than the sound of your own voice.
We are all capable of reading the info provided by MA, but how this works on the ground is as ever something only time and experience will allow us to determine. The need for thought and the sharing of information with others is therefore clearly a necessary element of that process.
 
Once again you see the need to offer your opinion and expertise on a subject that you by your own admission, have little real experience of. Yet somehow you see the need to comment on the posts and re-iterate things presumably gleaned from others, or are simply your assumptions - from your personal interpretation - of the limited information provided by MA.
May I humbly suggest that until you have the experience as a mid to high level hunter, and therefore the stats to make informed comment that you restrict yourself to reading and learning from, rather than criticising members who have played this game as opposed to the dabbling of a non-depo busybody. Your posts rarely add any real content other than the sound of your own voice.
We are all capable of reading the info provided by MA, but how this works on the ground is as ever something only time and experience will allow us to determine. The need for thought and the sharing of information with others is therefore clearly a necessary element of that process.

You can obviously suggest whatever you want, but I honestly don't care about your suggestions.

Far now pretty much everything I said was confirmed by later statements from MA, so it looks like my assumptions, based on simple common sense and logic, were quite accurate, much more accurate than those of many "seasoned veterans" that even after years of hunting seem to lack some basic common sense logic; also quite a few people thanked me for them either via PMs or +rep messages.

If you don't like what I have to say, you can always choose to ignore or, if you think I'm breaking any forum rules and disrupting the discussions, report said posts. Other than that I have no intention to stop posting whatever I find useful just because you (or anyone else, or even everyone else) have a problem with this.
 
You can obviously suggest whatever you want, but I honestly don't care about your suggestions.

Far now pretty much everything I said was confirmed by later statements from MA, so it looks like my assumptions, based on simple common sense and logic, were quite accurate, much more accurate than those of many "seasoned veterans" that even after years of hunting seem to lack some basic common sense logic; also quite a few people thanked me for them either via PMs or +rep messages.

If you don't like what I have to say, you can always choose to ignore or, if you think I'm breaking any forum rules and disrupting the discussions, report said posts. Other than that I have no intention to stop posting whatever I find useful just because you (or anyone else, or even everyone else) have a problem with this.

If you dont care about others suggestions then why should we care about your assumptions , please post your hunting stats to back up what you are saying because unless you can do this assumptions are all you have, which are a heck of a lot different in most cases to what most of the hunters are finding.
 
Why does there need to be some kind of magical combination of armour, healing, dps and dpp for everything you fight, in order to not get shafted in TT returns? loot 2.0 might be unfinished according to MA, but they never should of released a system that puts you into such a box.

Unfortunately for me, I don't have the time or energy to track all my data when I hunt, so I rely on the advice of others, and equipping myself as best as I can just so I can hunt and extend my minimal deposits.

Even though MA has stated everything still matters and theres new forms of compensation in loot, I can't help but wonder if I am being punished negatively because I choose to limit my hunting within a range that lets me more or less hunt naked and almost never, if at all, need to heal.

I already limit myself weapon wise to low level unlimited laser weapons with range, with SIB, that I can amp with sinkadus, a101 and a102. I mostly avoid limited weapons since markup often negates any increased efficiency over their unlimited counterparts. No point using them in those cases.

If I can kill it, shouldn't the only deciding factors on how much potential profit I can make be based on how efficiently I go about doing it?

The only other I can think of that people MIGHT be missing in loot 2.0, that the weapons different damage types may be influencing the loot somehow now, in the sense how different armour sets will react differently to enemy damage based on its protection type. Which could go along with what MA said about hunting specialization... Just a thought on how people could go about their tests too as something that's being missed. No data on it myself.

The DPP cap some people suggest could be a way for MA to balance all the different gear there is ingame now against each other, making it so people cant be TOO efficient, and allowing more of this limited gear available ingame to be spread around to other players because it isn't much worth it to have it all now. Therefore also making more players potentially happy and extending their peds?
 
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Why does there need to be some kind of magical combination of armour, healing, dps and dpp for everything you fight, in order to not get shafted in TT returns? loot 2.0 might be unfinished according to MA, but they never should of released a system that puts you into such a box.

Unfortunately for me, I don't have the time or energy to track all my data when I hunt, so I rely on the advice of others, and equipping myself as best as I can just so I can hunt and extend my minimal deposits.

Even though MA has stated everything still matters and theres new forms of compensation in loot, I can't help but wonder if I am being punished negatively because I choose to limit my hunting within a range that lets me more or less hunt naked and almost never, if at all, need to heal.

I already limit myself weapon wise to low level unlimited laser weapons with range, with SIB, that I can amp with sinkadus, a101 and a102. I mostly avoid limited weapons since markup often negates any increased efficiency over their unlimited counterparts. No point using them in those cases.

If I can kill it, shouldn't the only deciding factors on how much potential profit I can make be based on how efficiently I go about doing it?

The only other I can think of that people MIGHT be missing in loot 2.0, that the weapons different damage types may be influencing the loot somehow now, in the sense how different armour sets will react differently to enemy damage based on its protection type. Which could go along with what MA said about hunting specialization... Just a thought on how people could go about their tests too as something that's being missed. No data on it myself.

I hate to actually say this, but I would go as far as to say hunt with more dps than you need, even if it means killing the mobs between 3-5 shots, cause at least losses will be far lower from what I have noticed so far.

So now I only hunt mobs that I can take down in a few shots, quite literally so I can get through as many as possible as quickly as possible to get those mini drops when they hot so the returns are somewhat decent.

I only mentioned this cause you are a low level type of hunter as myself, so only trying to help but how this helps others I am unable to give an answer to that other than lock n load for DPS race, kills now within 5 shots?

But definitely test out what I am saying don't just take it at face value, as what works for me might not work for you kind of thing, always test things out, always, doesn't matter who said the thing to you, always check it.
 
Why does there need to be some kind of magical combination of armour, healing, dps and dpp for everything you fight, in order to not get shafted in TT returns? loot 2.0 might be unfinished according to MA, but they never should of released a system that puts you into such a box.

Unfortunately for me, I don't have the time or energy to track all my data when I hunt, so I rely on the advice of others, and equipping myself as best as I can just so I can hunt and extend my minimal deposits.

Even though MA has stated everything still matters and theres new forms of compensation in loot, I can't help but wonder if I am being punished negatively because I choose to limit my hunting within a range that lets me more or less hunt naked and almost never, if at all, need to heal.

I already limit myself weapon wise to low level unlimited laser weapons with range, with SIB, that I can amp with sinkadus, a101 and a102. I mostly avoid limited weapons since markup often negates any increased efficiency over their unlimited counterparts. No point using them in those cases.

If I can kill it, shouldn't the only deciding factors on how much potential profit I can make be based on how efficiently I go about doing it?

The only other I can think of that people MIGHT be missing in loot 2.0, that the weapons different damage types may be influencing the loot somehow now, in the sense how different armour sets will react differently to enemy damage based on its protection type. Which could go along with what MA said about hunting specialization... Just a thought on how people could go about their tests too as something that's being missed. No data on it myself.

Its a player vs player game, the strongest/smartest will win, if you remove winning from the formula its. Simply the most costly game in the world so we need an incentive to play smart to be able to do better then somebody else.

It was the same before just it basically relied independantly on gear (read investments) and now that seems to not be the sole solution of the lootequation. How can that not be more entertaining then simply invest and shoot (npt saying you dont need investments, just saying there seems to be more to it now)
 
I was reading this again and these two statements don't make sense together. Efficiency is a small component, but it does not correspond to overall loot return? :scratch2:

------>

[*]The Efficiency parameter is a relatively small component in loot calculations (no more than 7% of total loot value).

= Efficiency plays a role in no more than 7% of the loot value.

[*]The displayed Efficiency parameter for a given weapon does not correspond to expected overall loot return.

= If your efficiency is 63% it doens't mean your overall return will be 63%

For me those 2 make sense together.
 
I won't mind hearing official statements on my 2 simple questions
1. Is it possible under loot 2.0 to use only natural regen and natural evade and get consistently worse loot than using optimal armor and optimal healing tool for a given mob?
2. Is it possible under loot 2.0 to get consistently worse loot if I add damage enhancer on a gun?
Not sure if I can get an official answers but still ...
 
------>



= Efficiency plays a role in no more than 7% of the loot value.



= If your efficiency is 63% it doens't mean your overall return will be 63%

For me those 2 make sense together.

That is obviously understandable and logical, so in same like manner.

90%+ efficiency does not mean you will exceed 90%+ returns right?
 
I won't mind hearing official statements on my 2 simple questions
1. Is it possible under loot 2.0 to use only natural regen and natural evade and get consistently worse loot than using optimal armor and optimal healing tool for a given mob?
2. Is it possible under loot 2.0 to get consistently worse loot if I add damage enhancer on a gun?
Not sure if I can get an official answers but still ...

1. I have used adjusted restoration before and after the VU, the damned thing did nothing for my returns after VU, after selling I am not seeing no difference in returns, make of that what you want.

2. regardless of the question, damage enhancers "longterm" are a very bad idea, unless MA suddenly add all enhancers purchasable through the trade terminal then I could see merit in this query.
 
That is obviously understandable and logical, so in same like manner.

90%+ efficiency does not mean you will exceed 90%+ returns right?

It's how i understand it.

What i don't understand is this:

It is important to note that Optimal Loot only affects loot composition (what you loot), not the loot value (how much you loot).

[*]Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as [....] and to provide opportunities for participants to improve their loot returns via experimentation, optimization and specialization.

1st quote = Optimal loot is just loot composition
2nd quote , how i understand it is meaning optimal loot can affect loot value while 1st quote says it doesn't

:confused:
 
2. regardless of the question, damage enhancers "longterm" are a very bad idea, unless MA suddenly add all enhancers purchasable through the trade terminal then I could see merit in this query.
well hidden meaning of this question was "can I get worse returns using same gun with more dps"
 
------>



= Efficiency plays a role in no more than 7% of the loot value.



= If your efficiency is 63% it doens't mean your overall return will be 63%

For me those 2 make sense together.

Why would anyone think efficiency of 63% would mean 63% loot returns?

Again, I think MA's statements are poorly worded, which is nothing new.
 
Its a player vs player game, the strongest/smartest will win,

So is Texas Hold'em Poker, but I've never heard poker players arguing about the rules of the game they love/hate to play.
 
Why would anyone think efficiency of 63% would mean 63% loot returns?

Again, I think MA's statements are poorly worded, which is nothing new.

This is the very reason they changed economy to efficiency.. to avoid this confusion.
 
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