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  1. #51
    Old Alpha Vagrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbi View Post
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    "Weapons that have scopes, lasers or amplifiers attached will display a modified Efficiency value (in orange)."

    I see the orange but not the effect on the efficiency?
    Tried attaching them to unmaxed weapon and saw a change but none on my maxed weapon as far as I could see.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoA View Post
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    Well, it is a fact that, without (the big) multipliers, returns would be low (looking at different sources estimations vary between ~50% and ~80%) and that's exactly why we need a statistically relevant sample, because otherwise, returns would be terribly low (without said multipliers) or amazingly good (if you get one such multiplier in a small sample).

    Hope that makes sense, otherwise please just use a softer boot. :P
    So what Loot 2 really means then, loot will improve significantly, but only if you kill 1000 or so, but if your loots still 50% to 80%, don't worry, do another 1000, and in 1 of those mobs, you'll get the improved loot, the other 999 will still be crap.

    So, we agreed then it's not on a per mob basis.

    I'd also like to know what gun, except Marco's, that can kill an Osseo for mm, lets say 1 ped.
    Most of my loot was between 1 to 2 ped, and I am unable to kill them for 2.10 ped lets say.
    Last edited by StarGlider; 06-27-2017 at 11:41.


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  3. #53
    Marauder M Rufen Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
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    Tried attaching them to unmaxed weapon and saw a change but none on my maxed weapon as far as I could see.
    You are not using the right attachments. Attachments that well exceed your gun+amp efficiency rating creates a higher avg.

    So Chon + A101 = 64.8% with attachments at the 83% mark, u get 66.9% new rating, with each attachments increasing the efficiency by a factor of 0.7%.

    Of course over-amping could have achieved a similar result, however that's been debunked now and I am sure whoever is manipulating the laser amp market will gladly suffer for their deeds.

    However scopes and sights are a different ball game and do have some minor benefit but its a benefit non the less. So until that gets addressed I will continue to test with my setup.

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by xian View Post
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    Thanks for claryfying this.


    Interesting. Conforts my fucked up loot theories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piotr View Post
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    Now im 100% sure that 2.0 is either extremely volatile or simply bugged (tt return wise)
    Same here. I observe a significant drop in return rate % tt wise ( >10%) after more than 20k ped cycled.
    My defense costs are like 0.3% like before 2.0
    Something strange is going on.

  5. #55
    Old Alpha DoA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarGlider View Post
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    So, we agreed then it's not on a per mob basis.
    It is on a per mob basis, just not on every mob basis.

    In order to can have globals and HOFs on some mobs (so a [much] higher loot than cost to kill) is obvious that on (most) other mobs you will have less loot than the cost to kill... otherwise where the PEDs for globals and HOFs would come from?
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  6. #56
    Prowler The Jetman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsina View Post
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    Oh, and another thing - when I have lots of misses on a mob, my cost to kill that mob was higher, but I've never seen a general effect of higher loot on those (as long as regen is very low). I used to see that regen was at least partially considered, yes!
    So it is unlikely that the cost to kill any one particular mob is directly used in the loot equation. How much damage you did to it (not overkill), yes. I still think we have to look for a generic baseline for, say, 30 hp damage, 300, or whatever.

    Is there a fast regen but low hp mob on caly that we can kill in highish numbers but while tracking approximately how much regen we allowed them?
    not on caly but check the turrelion Sea wraiths out on cyrene, 10hp with 10hp regen

  7. #57
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    Ive not been on so much and havent been doing propper tests but i have an observation.
    Before an standard prot run 3600 ped worth needed 1350 ped worth of global-loot for breakeven.
    Yesterday an 1250 global-loot run resulted in a 600 ped loss.
    Mobs kill too global ratio seems too be about the same but value on both normal hofs and normal globals are alot lower while the avarage loot from a non multiplier prot is way lower.
    Either they are bugged/forgot too add all ammo loot or they just turned the variance waay up (~500 ped less non multiplier loot/ ~400 mobs = 1.25 ped) .

    Avarage on the young-old my killcost would be 9 ped and losing 1.25 ped yields a 14% worse TT return then pre 2.0.

    So either there are 14% more TT loot in a hof pile, basicly making the game totaly unplayable for the 98% since the hard grinders will pick up most hofs or MAs returns are bugged and components in the loot are missing.

    Extra info
    Had minis in both runs as well.
    My gear 7% fb 116% added crit, maxed imk2+ hyper
    0 defence costs.
    I can do runs like this for almost any mob.
    As far as loss on run 600 ped is not unusall on prots but this was a decent run global wise hate too see returns on the 0 globals ones
    Last edited by carle; 06-27-2017 at 12:23.
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  8. #58
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    I'm personally benefiting from the perceived value of sights and scopes to increase economy rating (or I would be if I could get in game to restock my shops) but this seems dodgy as hell to me.

    These attachments only have limited capability to affect your cost to kill. For most people, most of their shooting ends up pretty short range unless the mob is slow so the ranged-based skill bonus is usually minimal or non-existent. I would actually argue that cost to kill is increased, owing to increased decay for no increased damage.

    I think it''s probably better in invest in gear that increase crits or decrease decay.

    Also sometimes cost to kill is more effectively minimised by increasing dps at the cost of reduced dpp - to minimise total regen, and I wonder how that will translate to TT return and "optimal loot" in the new system.

    I'm still pondering defensive costs. In the old system I would minimise armour as long as I could survive a hit and use a good fap as fap heals per pec were significantly higher than armour protect per pec. (I use the middle resto chip). But now with the note that defense cost contributes to TT loot value and armour decay cost reduced I am wondering if it makes sense to overprotect, so that I waste minimal time switching to and from fap. I think I read that there is now not a minimum decay based on total protection offered by the armour, so I am not seeing any disadvantage to wearing the biggest armour that I have skills for.
    I think faps are likely to plummet in value as MA finishes introducing the armour related changes.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoA View Post
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    It is on a per mob basis, just not on every mob basis.

    In order to can have globals and HOFs on some mobs (so a [much] higher loot than cost to kill) is obvious that on (most) other mobs you will have less loot than the cost to kill... otherwise where the PEDs for globals and HOFs would come from?
    Your explaining the old loot system.

    Please link the post MA have said this please.

    Less loot, to make up for global's /hof's.
    I cannot find where they said with improved loot 2, you'd be paying for these globals with less than 50% returns for an hour.


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  10. #60
    Old Alpha DoA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarGlider View Post
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    Your explaining the old loot system.
    I assume the general concept was and still is the same: without multipliers your returns will be considerably lower than the average returns (so the multipliers can build up).

    So is not about new or old loot system; in a system where you have an average and you have peaks (multipliers) you automatically must also have drops to compensate for said peaks.
    If you can't fly then run, if you can't run then walk, if you can't walk then crawl, but whatever you do, keep moving forward.

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