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What are your thoughts about owning an UL -non-sib, un-maxed after the new VU

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CozMoDan

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Herco Coz Mann
Just wondering if you feel betrayed ? I kind of feel that way. I have a EWE EP-21 Defender Improved that I bought sometime ago and I really love the gun. I have a 9.7 hit and 9.7 damage and my highest eco rating of all my weapons, but MA now says that if I use it my loot take will be penalized . I really don't think that is fair to all of us who are close(or not close just wanted a UL weapon) to the max and now have to put the weapon in storage. I think the penalty should be the loss of hit points like it was but not loss of loot. My gun was not real expensive around 3000 ped but I really would like to use it and it appears that I will not be able to for a while.

Your thoughts if you own one.

BTW I am glad I didn't buy a mod-merc at 60K and have to that one in storage :).
 
I believe the only penalization your getting is in the items looted not the actual value, your already penalized in the value due to the extra cost in using unmaxed weapon
 
CozMoDan said:
Just wondering if you feel betrayed ? I kind of feel that way. I have a EWE EP-21 Defender Improved that I bought sometime ago and I really love the gun. I have a 9.7 hit and 9.7 damage and my highest eco rating of all my weapons, but MA now says that if I use it my loot take will be penalized . I really don't think that is fair to all of us who are close(or not close just wanted a UL weapon) to the max and now have to put the weapon in storage. I think the penalty should be the loss of hit points like it was but not loss of loot. My gun was not real expensive around 3000 ped but I really would like to use it and it appears that I will not be able to for a while.

Your thoughts if you own one.

BTW I am glad I didn't buy a mod-merc at 60K and have to that one in storage :).
Click to expand...

It is the same as before 2.0, I would regularly try to use unl non-sib weapons that I had higher dpp with but I would get lower tt% returns. We were penalized before 2.0.
 
I own one of these guns.
It's a vast improvement.
Ma did not say your loot is penalized.
They said your optimal loot factor is different.
Personally..I prefer the shrammo.
This is not a poem.
 
Kazanori said:
I believe the only penalization your getting is in the items looted not the actual value, your already penalized in the value due to the extra cost in using unmaxed weapon
Click to expand...
I agree I don't think the value of the gun will go down. Having said that the market for the weapon got a whole lot smaller as I don't think many level 100 players hunt the same thing as I do and would not want a gun that has 35 damage. For me that actual value thing is way down as I stated in another forum thread, like no profit since the first day on the mobs I normally hunt. Actually I consistently get 90% hit rate with my UL gun which is way as good as any maxed weapon I use.

I really don't care about items because for as long as I have played(10 years) I have only looted a rare UL item once and that was an RX OpTac x2 helmet and sold it for 3550 ped. I did get a 159 ped esi once that sold for a little of 1600 ped and a piece of Eon(L) armor that was about 1200 ped as recall. So you can see items are not my strong suit:(. But I used to pay out much more often.

One other thing, I love the weapon and I can't see me ever selling it but the thought of having it in storage for almost 3 years does not excite me at all. I calculated that time based on my skill increases over the past few days and what I am hunt does not give me much increase.
 
Xen said:
It is the same as before 2.0, I would regularly try to use unl non-sib weapons that I had higher dpp with but I would get lower tt% returns. We were penalized before 2.0.
Click to expand...

Maybe you were but really I didn't notice, now maybe my expectations were lower than yours. But I was happy enough with the returns I got prior to the VU and I never went 6 days without a global. But that is just me I guess.
 
Immortal said:
I own one of these guns.
It's a vast improvement.
Ma did not say your loot is penalized.
They said your optimal loot factor is different.
Personally..I prefer the shrammo.
This is not a poem.
Click to expand...

For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors.

I don't care about optimal loot as I have never got the good stuff anyway as stated above I just want to pay out once in a while and I am not able to do that on anything but punties right now. Not saying I won't try some more larger mobs but right now I am licking some wounds.
 
Really guys I appreciate your comments but they really have nothing to do with the OP. You are telling me things that I have been reading about in 2 other forums since day one of the VU. This is not about me its about others and their thoughts about their unmaxed UL weapons. Maybe I am the only one that has one :).
 
Take everything with a grain of salt. Obviously MA doesn't tell us the whole story. The rules of the game are simple.
Whatever works, works.
 
CozMoDan said:
For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors.

I don't care about optimal loot as I have never got the good stuff anyway as stated above I just want to pay out once in a while and I am not able to do that on anything but punties right now. Not saying I won't try some more larger mobs but right now I am licking some wounds.
Click to expand...

Well, if you don't care about optimal loot, then that part doesn't apply to you... so where's the problem?
 
My main thing, shrap should only be given for fractions of pecs in loot. How is it fair for hunters to get 101% markup from shrap, about 70% of my loot is shrap on fouls with 63% eco or whatever, imagine if miners got 60% probes back in their loot, it would be terrible.
 
Dennis blighter said:
My main thing, shrap should only be given for fractions of pecs in loot. How is it fair for hunters to get 101% markup from shrap, about 70% of my loot is shrap on fouls with 63% eco or whatever, imagine if miners got 60% probes back in their loot, it would be terrible.
Click to expand...
I kinda like it since I t.t most sharp and eye or muscle oil... I depo via lockbox webshop purchases now so that t.t stuff is used as ped to buy stuff that old depo would have before the boxes were there. Suspect a lot of others are similar... maybe mining rehaul is coming.... u.a. is used in place of probes so 60 percent shrapnel in mining return would be justified to balance hunting

I've started burning pills and Neuro on small hunts while cramming in more clicks per second with flame thrower but am not seeing any major changes in what's showing up in loot...

Just play the game and stop tracking... if u win, great. If u blow it all it at least lasted longer than a lotto ticket or craps table would get u for same cost

Wish no no looted system would stay and remove n.r.f. in mining
 
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Dennis blighter said:
My main thing, shrap should only be given for fractions of pecs in loot. How is it fair for hunters to get 101% markup from shrap, about 70% of my loot is shrap on fouls with 63% eco or whatever, imagine if miners got 60% probes back in their loot, it would be terrible.
Click to expand...

If I got probes as shrammo while mining, that would be an improvement. Sincerely, 'hardcore' miner of quil sap.
 
I own an Opalo but can't be arsed to have thoughts about it. :cool:

edit: er, Opalo was SIB after all, my bad. Time, it sure flies.
 
CozMoDan said:
For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors.

I don't care about optimal loot as I have never got the good stuff anyway as stated above I just want to pay out once in a while and I am not able to do that on anything but punties right now. Not saying I won't try some more larger mobs but right now I am licking some wounds.
Click to expand...

In the update, they defined what 'optimal loot' means compared to 'efficient loot'

Efficinent*optimal*TT-cost=profit
 
I did a small run on atrox guard to alpha 200 ped only. Small I know, average loot exactly 3.00 ped per mob. Ranged from .65 on a provider, just happen to be there, to top loot 5.58 on a alpha total cost 202.15 TTed 105.00 -48.1 percent much better than the last 200 ped only cashed 73 ped on that one. Now tell me to go do a 1K ped run so I can cash 490 ped. Had Ghost armor, 5B plates and used a RIP M7700 CDF Edition (L) for the weapon and had a tagger.
 
DoA said:
Well, if you don't care about optimal loot, then that part doesn't apply to you... so where's the problem?
Click to expand...
DoA Are you completely on DRUGS how in the hell can you infer that from a quote from the release notes. On second thought don't tell I don't want to know and I don't care. Fingers in ears and shouting La-LA-La-LA as loud as possible.
 
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using a tier 5 un-maxed Urban Stalker/Dante rigged for max damage and Phantom Armor I managed to turn 300 ped into 3200 this last weekend.

I have no idea what to think about all this now...
 
Let's see if I understood the question correctly.

There is no separate added "punishment" for not using a maxed weapon. The downside of using non-maxed weapons is still just a consequence of not doing the full damage potential and missing a few extra shots.

Using weapons that you do not have maxed skills for now has a considerably smaller negative impact on the "loot value" than it did in the past. Not dealing the full potential damage with each shot used to negatively affect the "loot value" returns greatly but now primarily negatively affect the "loot composition". For the "skill misses" (not evades) these still do affect your "loot value" returns negatively as they did in the past.

However as stated in the Dev notes #11
"A special hunting bonus pool will be implemented that will distribute funds from various sources, including skill misses, PVP, marketing and special events, which will improve overall loot returns for all participants." So the decay and ammo usage generated by missed attacks can sometimes find its way back to you.

With that said MindArk still always recommend using maxed out equipment for better results but the downside to not doing so is now smaller than before.
 
Charlie|MindArk said:
Let's see if I understood the question correctly.

There is no separate added "punishment" for not using a maxed weapon. The downside of using non-maxed weapons is still just a consequence of not doing the full damage potential and missing a few extra shots.

Using weapons that you do not have maxed skills for now has a considerably smaller negative impact on the "loot value" than it did in the past. Not dealing the full potential damage with each shot used to negatively affect the "loot value" returns greatly but now primarily negatively affect the "loot composition". For the "skill misses" (not evades) these still do affect your "loot value" returns negatively as they did in the past.

However as stated in the Dev notes #11
"A special hunting bonus pool will be implemented that will distribute funds from various sources, including skill misses, PVP, marketing and special events, which will improve overall loot returns for all participants." So the decay and ammo usage generated by missed attacks can sometimes find its way back to you.

With that said MindArk still always recommend using maxed out equipment for better results but the downside to not doing so is now smaller than before.
Click to expand...

Thank you for clarifying this! :)
 
Casper said:
using a tier 5 un-maxed Urban Stalker/Dante rigged for max damage and Phantom Armor I managed to turn 300 ped into 3200 this last weekend.

I have no idea what to think about all this now...
Click to expand...

Hmmm seems I am doing everything wrong, all this years of eco maxed hunting......
 
Thanks Charlie, that seems to make a lot of sense
 
Teiwaz Storm said:
Hmmm seems I am doing everything wrong, all this years of eco maxed hunting......
Click to expand...

There is people who put thousands of dollars in the game to squeeze out a bit more DPP. But for all we know, it might as well be buying in to a illusion of higher returns more than an actual outcome.

Sure it will never be a all out illusion which you're buying. But how much does it increase DPP? For what we know in theory it should, we can't collect data to verify it or not.
 
NoBion said:
There is people who put thousands of dollars in the game to squeeze out a bit more DPP. But for all we know, it might as well be buying in to a illusion of higher returns more than an actual outcome.

Sure it will never be a all out illusion which you're buying. But how much does it increase DPP? For what we know in theory it should, we can't collect data to verify it or not.
Click to expand...

I have a few years of average 12-15 hours of shooting per day to tell you its not an illusion :)

//Linzey
 
krogfan said:
I have a few years of average 12-15 hours of shooting per day to tell you its not an illusion :)

//Linzey
Click to expand...

Thanks..

Would be cool if you made a thread someday so we can see some numbers :)
 
NoBion said:
There is people who put thousands of dollars in the game to squeeze out a bit more DPP. But for all we know, it might as well be buying in to a illusion of higher returns more than an actual outcome.

Sure it will never be a all out illusion which you're buying. But how much does it increase DPP? For what we know in theory it should, we can't collect data to verify it or not.
Click to expand...

It was not an illusion before loot 2.0...
 
I think the new loot system is far more transparent and is a great improvement over the old system. That said it is a little sad for us in this situation.

My EP-40 merc gives me an efficiency of 55 :( lol. I was always "happy" with the loot I received with the gun (and have been using it when I hunt since before VU 10 and before anyone cared about eco). However now I think the penalty for using it is too high and it is maybe time to change :laugh:
 
Charlie|MindArk said:
Let's see if I understood the question correctly.

There is no separate added "punishment" for not using a maxed weapon. The downside of using non-maxed weapons is still just a consequence of not doing the full damage potential and missing a few extra shots.

Using weapons that you do not have maxed skills for now has a considerably smaller negative impact on the "loot value" than it did in the past. Not dealing the full potential damage with each shot used to negatively affect the "loot value" returns greatly but now primarily negatively affect the "loot composition". For the "skill misses" (not evades) these still do affect your "loot value" returns negatively as they did in the past.

However as stated in the Dev notes #11
"A special hunting bonus pool will be implemented that will distribute funds from various sources, including skill misses, PVP, marketing and special events, which will improve overall loot returns for all participants." So the decay and ammo usage generated by missed attacks can sometimes find its way back to you.

With that said MindArk still always recommend using maxed out equipment for better results but the downside to not doing so is now smaller than before.
Click to expand...

So, to be short, if I have a unmaxed non-sib weapon+amp with which I do 3.05 dpp with my skills, even with the skill misses (included in the 3.05 calculation) it is still better to use this weapon than an otherwise equal maxed L weapon+amp setup with which I have 3.00 dpp? Or no?
 
I think he means that some days your just walking around lucky and don't know it.
 
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