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The remaining 93% of loot value

Very simple and straightforward, obviously from someone who actually hunts. I'm guessing it's someone from the A-team.

I'm also guessing you got one thing backwards.
Sub-Zero said:
4. Regen plays a role in optimal loot calculation. More dps + perfect finisher may be key.
Click to expand...
As I see it, you came on convinced regen equals lost peds and he disagreed. It's kinda hard to interpret his response as confirmation. Hard but not impossible, so I'll better let everyone make up their own mind about that one.

Anyway, great stuff. Prolly the greatest most useful info from the inside we've ever got. :cool:
 
Eli said:
Sorry but... then why be anonymous... It's hard to take this without a metric ton of salt when it suggest intangible concepts of this magnitude, is anonymous while claiming the information is for the good of all....
Click to expand...

Anonymouse sources... FAKE NEWS!!! :laugh:

I guess this means we are supposed take a mob and build a table of loot from 10,000 kills of every mob level with every likely combination of dps/dpp that might be optimal to sort out what the optimal setup is for every mob? I assume there is a better way :scratch2:

edit: re-reading that convo, I still wonder about dps/dpp. If you find the right dps, and have a great dpp and efficiency, isn't that better than having the right dps, and poor dpp/efficiency? It seems to me the savings from thousands of mobs with higher dpp/efficency would be helpful, wouldn't it?

edit2: I have a t10 mod merc. I would like to think the high efficency and high dps and ability to scale dps with 10 dmg enhancer slots is worth some kind of premium still.
 
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Don't forget about skill values.
Even when skills are rewarded on Calypso, the cost is deducted from CLD revenue.
So, it has a value attached to it, and yet we never actually see that at the TT and the end of the hunt.

Not an insignificant thing to discount with some setups.
 
skills dont have any tt value.
 
???

Are people headless and don't read. None of the info in that chat is anything that isn't in the release notes, all known info... Don't get people calling BS...

Disregard at your pleasure or peril..

:confused:
 
DakinGaros said:
Are people headless and don't read. None of the info in that chat is anything that isn't in the release notes, all known info... Don't get people calling BS...

Disregard at your pleasure or peril..

:confused:
Click to expand...

Frankly, the various statements in the vu notes and by MA officials have confused me. Maybe I am just too picky with the language but while some others see a clear meaning I see multiple possible meanings. They've made it as clear as mud to me.
 
Xen said:
Frankly, the various statements in the vu notes and by MA officials have confused me. Maybe I am just too picky with the language but while some others see a clear meaning I see multiple possible meanings. They've made it as clear as mud to me.
Click to expand...

I believe that is the goal.
 
forgo said:
Don't forget about skill values.
Even when skills are rewarded on Calypso, the cost is deducted from CLD revenue.
So, it has a value attached to it, and yet we never actually see that at the TT and the end of the hunt.

Not an insignificant thing to discount with some setups.
Click to expand...

What? Who told you this? That is completely false
 
Fifth said:
Very simple and straightforward, obviously from someone who actually hunts. I'm guessing it's someone from the A-team.

I'm also guessing you got one thing backwards.
As I see it, you came on convinced regen equals lost peds and he disagreed. It's kinda hard to interpret his response as confirmation. Hard but not impossible, so I'll better let everyone make up their own mind about that one.

Anyway, great stuff. Prolly the greatest most useful info from the inside we've ever got. :cool:
Click to expand...

You're probably right about 4th, after re-reading the chatlog.

Btw can confirm not from A-team.
 
Sub-Zero said:
Hello, I had a nice conversation in-game. Merely spreading the word, hopefully we can all figure out how the loot 2.0 works and make a nice gain in our avg TT returns. The person in question wanted to be anonymous.
Code: 
2017-06-29 19:31:14 [TO  : Anonymous] hi
2017-06-29 19:31:19 [FROM: Anonymous] Hello
2017-06-29 19:32:58 [TO  : Anonymous] What are ya planning to help boost the violatile loot returns? People getting 50% returns on mobs they got 95%+ before loot 2.0?
2017-06-29 19:33:33 [TO  : Anonymous] are we forced to hunt smaller mobs with less hp to get "optimal loot"?
2017-06-29 19:33:41 [FROM: Anonymous] The adjustment has to come on your side.  IF the loot is that bad, your setup is not good for that mob
2017-06-29 19:33:58 [FROM: Anonymous] Optimal Loot is the idea, that is what will dirve your profit
2017-06-29 19:35:03 [TO  : Anonymous] I use maxed weapon, I don't fap while shooting, I don't use big armor, my defense cost is less than 1%. My dps and dpp is more than fine
2017-06-29 19:35:27 [TO  : Anonymous] just that for some reason it almost feel like If I don't kill mob too fast like below 20s I get penalty
2017-06-29 19:35:30 [FROM: Anonymous] What weapon, whats the efficiency rating on it
2017-06-29 19:36:13 [TO  : Anonymous] [Aakas Fire Dagger] + [Melee Trauma Amplifier IV] btw I use tagger to get 1 mob at a time
2017-06-29 19:36:30 [FROM: Anonymous] whats the efficiency rating
2017-06-29 19:36:36 [TO  : Anonymous] 62.7% with amp
2017-06-29 19:37:02 [FROM: Anonymous] well, thats pretty good.
2017-06-29 19:37:09 [TO  : Anonymous] yes
2017-06-29 19:37:20 [TO  : Anonymous] + [Ares Ring Improved]
2017-06-29 19:37:23 [FROM: Anonymous] My suggestion would be try a little higher mob, and a little lower, and see what is consistent for you
2017-06-29 19:37:25 [TO  : Anonymous] so maybe a bit above avg
2017-06-29 19:38:06 [TO  : Anonymous] I see
2017-06-29 19:38:12 [TO  : Anonymous] so i need to adapt like that
2017-06-29 19:38:36 [FROM: Anonymous] Yes, go up a little, try that out, if that doesn't work, down a little, but I beet you need to move up a little
2017-06-29 19:38:43 [TO  : Anonymous] can u confirm though, if it could be because that I use tagger (one shot) then  wait for mob to reach me to then kill it with melee? COuld this be
2017-06-29 19:38:46 [FROM: Anonymous] It is indeed the need to adapt
2017-06-29 19:38:47 [TO  : Anonymous] because of not optimal loot?
2017-06-29 19:38:56 [FROM: Anonymous] you got a good setup, so just find the right mix
2017-06-29 19:39:16 [FROM: Anonymous] No, its not the use of a tagger and melee.. its all good
2017-06-29 19:39:29 [FROM: Anonymous] Your setup is OK, just change the level your are hitting mobs at..
2017-06-29 19:39:32 [TO  : Anonymous] ok i was a bit worried that once u shoot a mob, the "timer" would start
2017-06-29 19:39:40 [FROM: Anonymous] No, there is no timer.
2017-06-29 19:39:52 [FROM: Anonymous] That was stated in the Loot 2.0 followup
2017-06-29 19:39:56 [TO  : Anonymous] yea
2017-06-29 19:40:04 [FROM: Anonymous] Its just simply a matter of math.
2017-06-29 19:40:10 [FROM: Anonymous] I will give you an example
2017-06-29 19:40:31 [FROM: Anonymous] I know a player using a Mod Merc, and an Improved a-105
2017-06-29 19:40:49 [FROM: Anonymous] Hunting Togolossi on Arkadia.  Loot was terrible, its a big HP mob
2017-06-29 19:41:08 [FROM: Anonymous] I suggested to add 3 damage enhancers to the gun, I, II, III to get a little more punch.
2017-06-29 19:41:13 [TO  : Anonymous] the high maturity then?
2017-06-29 19:41:31 [FROM: Anonymous] and boom, that was the right combination to get more punch to get improved loot
2017-06-29 19:41:49 [TO  : Anonymous] how can you give such specifc advice :P
2017-06-29 19:41:53 [FROM: Anonymous] You either have to go higher or lower to find the right damage spot to get the better loot
2017-06-29 19:41:55 [TO  : Anonymous] aren't you like hurting yourselves?
2017-06-29 19:42:20 [FROM: Anonymous] if you are seeing mostly shrapnel, you are not at the right spot
2017-06-29 19:42:32 [FROM: Anonymous] No, of course not.  If people aren't able to play, we all lose
2017-06-29 19:42:47 [TO  : Anonymous] that's quite brilliant then, and logical from that explanation
2017-06-29 19:42:54 [FROM: Anonymous] I am just giving you the example to help you adapt to the new way of thinking
2017-06-29 19:43:03 [TO  : Anonymous] so if shrapnel is the majority of loot = not optimal loot?
2017-06-29 19:43:04 [FROM: Anonymous] I am glad.
2017-06-29 19:43:10 [FROM: Anonymous] Thats correct.
2017-06-29 19:43:18 [TO  : Anonymous] lol shrapnel like 80% of my loot xD
2017-06-29 19:43:27 [FROM: Anonymous] you should see a second shrapnel line every so often, that is from the bonus pool
2017-06-29 19:43:38 [FROM: Anonymous] but on top of that, you will get a mix of items.
2017-06-29 19:43:44 [FROM: Anonymous] oils, paints, etc
2017-06-29 19:43:57 [TO  : Anonymous] that bonus shrapnel loot is usually 20+ ped?
2017-06-29 19:44:00 [TO  : Anonymous] i've noticed that
2017-06-29 19:44:04 [FROM: Anonymous] if you aren't  getting a mix, you are at the wrong spot on the damage to Mob ladder
2017-06-29 19:44:28 [FROM: Anonymous] it can be any amount, but I have seen it be 12ped, 20 ped, more...  sometimes it even gives a global for the bonus
2017-06-29 19:44:35 [FROM: Anonymous] Its all about finding that sweet spot now
2017-06-29 19:44:39 [TO  : Anonymous] I see
2017-06-29 19:44:58 [FROM: Anonymous] Its really not that difficult if you get a feel for what to watch for
2017-06-29 19:44:58 [TO  : Anonymous] Regen matters more now? Because in the past it compensated by higher avg loot I think
2017-06-29 19:45:09 [FROM: Anonymous] but be patient, you have to test out enough to get it right
2017-06-29 19:45:33 [FROM: Anonymous] I don't think Regen really matters any more than before
2017-06-29 19:45:37 [TO  : Anonymous] im guessing now regen doesn't compensate at all?
2017-06-29 19:45:48 [TO  : Anonymous] so more dps is key?
2017-06-29 19:45:54 [FROM: Anonymous] It think it factors into the damage calc, so I think it would
2017-06-29 19:46:02 [TO  : Anonymous] or is it possible that you can have too much dps for a mob?
2017-06-29 19:46:08 [FROM: Anonymous] dps for the mob, and maturity that you are hunting
2017-06-29 19:46:10 [TO  : Anonymous] thus not achieving optimal loot
2017-06-29 19:46:21 [FROM: Anonymous] Yes, overkill reduces your loot from optimal as well
2017-06-29 19:46:29 [FROM: Anonymous] thats why I suggested you go a little higher
2017-06-29 19:46:32 [TO  : Anonymous] i see
2017-06-29 19:46:37 [FROM: Anonymous] You should have to fap once in a while..
2017-06-29 19:46:41 [FROM: Anonymous] or you are going to easy
2017-06-29 19:46:47 [TO  : Anonymous] heheh this is really tough
2017-06-29 19:46:55 [TO  : Anonymous] I've always gone eco route
2017-06-29 19:46:57 [FROM: Anonymous] It is..  at first
2017-06-29 19:47:01 [TO  : Anonymous] since 2006
2017-06-29 19:47:01 [FROM: Anonymous] Yes...
2017-06-29 19:47:06 [TO  : Anonymous] and that means no FAPPING almost
2017-06-29 19:47:08 [TO  : Anonymous] xD
2017-06-29 19:47:11 [FROM: Anonymous] the ultra eco way has been the path forever
2017-06-29 19:47:12 [TO  : Anonymous] and minimal armor
2017-06-29 19:47:19 [FROM: Anonymous] NOW that can be a detriment
2017-06-29 19:47:27 [TO  : Anonymous] so now you guys bridging the gap?
2017-06-29 19:47:58 [FROM: Anonymous] Its all in an effort to reduce the cost to play, and retain more players.
2017-06-29 19:48:05 [FROM: Anonymous] More players means better economy
2017-06-29 19:48:12 [TO  : Anonymous] always thought that as well
2017-06-29 19:48:16 [FROM: Anonymous] Better economy means more loot, and the circle continues
2017-06-29 19:48:29 [TO  : Anonymous] it's a lot better if 10000 players pay with 20 bucks a month then 1000 play with 50 bucks or more
2017-06-29 19:48:35 [FROM: Anonymous] Its a very positive change if people can adapt
2017-06-29 19:48:43 [FROM: Anonymous] absolutely
2017-06-29 19:48:49 [TO  : Anonymous] 500 bucks*
2017-06-29 19:48:58 [FROM: Anonymous] spot on with that analogy
2017-06-29 19:49:26 [FROM: Anonymous] we are going to see the economy rev up again, and when the population numbers go up, its all relative
Major points we can take from this:

1. Check loot, if you're getting too much shrapnel, your setup is not fit for "optimal loot".
2. Ultra eco doesn't equal ultra optimal anymore.
3. Matching DPS to mob maturity for your level is key to getting optimal loot.
4. Regen plays a role in optimal loot calculation. More dps + perfect finisher may be key.
5. Overkill lessens the "optimal loot factor".
6. Following all of the above > dpp. So using more dps for less DPP is more important nowadays. If you want to hunt bigger stuff.
Click to expand...


Interesting info there

I guess same would be for team ...:scratch2:
 
If we think about MA statements in past that development will be oriented towards casual players we should fint out what casual player is.
Casual player
-don't have top weapons like umk2,
-cant minimize healing costs with mod fap,
-don't have top armor,
-don't have skills,
-don't have knowledge,
-don't have time

So what remain to calculate loot?

Casual player could have buffs from strong boxes, gear witch he can buy in shops or auction.
What else?
 
TheRock said:
Interesting info there

I guess same would be for team ...:scratch2:
Click to expand...

That sounds like contradiction to what they said (optimal is what u loot, not how much).
 
Fifth said:
Very simple and straightforward, obviously from someone who actually hunts. I'm guessing it's someone from the A-team.
Click to expand...

Saying "spot on" often and using caps to add SOME stress are Monrian diseases. :)

Might be a coincidence, of course. The sample is too small to use statistical methods.
 
Haruto Rat said:
Saying "spot on" often and using caps to add SOME stress are Monrian diseases. :)

Might be a coincidence, of course. The sample is too small to use statistical methods.
Click to expand...
Right, it's not Ark because our source say's it's not. In a hindsight, I should have figured it out from the way he added "from Arkadia" after mentioning Togolossi. If you talk to Ark dev you're standing on Ark and this "from Arkadia" would be really strange. :)

From all the remaining "usual suspects", the moon seems the best match indeed.
 
Interesting conversation there with Sub-Zero. While i dont have anywhere near a credible data set yet, my analysis with warlocks so far says that the conversation is pretty much how i see it as well. Changing dps seems to make more difference now then anytime before via enhancers.

I am sorry have not read the whole thread but am guessing the Anonymous is someone who is not just speculating.
 
Fifth said:
Right, it's not Ark because our source say's it's not. In a hindsight, I should have figured it out from the way he added "from Arkadia" after mentioning Togolossi. If you talk to Ark dev you're standing on Ark and this "from Arkadia" would be really strange. :)

From all the remaining "usual suspects", the moon seems the best match indeed.
Click to expand...

Your logic is flawed. Nothing can be ruled out so easily. arkadian dev would mention arkadia as much as possible, it's a form of advertising. For example think about the example he/she chose to give about togolossi and mentioning arkadia for double measure out of any other example they could have given. A monrian dev would most likely give a monrian example and an arkadian dev most likely an ark example.

Also whoever gave this info would have known the possibility of it being shared, especially since sub-zero states they wanted to remain anonymous. Which means they absolutely knew it was going to be shared, at what stage did they know for sure? before the conversation or after? Either way it's most probable they wanted it to be shared and had a conversation with someone most likely to share it i.e. sub-zero. So question is which developer would want to advertise arkadia?

I also wouldn't rule out the initial conversation may even not have been between dev and sub-zero since both names are anonymous in the chat. Yes, sub-zero posted the chat so it's most likely he had the conversation however it's an assumption.

edit: the to and from being anonymous obviously my error. however, point remains cannot be certain of anything
 
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I don't know much about all this MA politician doublespeak bullshit they always put out, but I do know is my aurli bronze mission got very fucking expensive after 2.0 loot was released. I am too close to finishing the mission to bail on it now, ~ 400 to go. But fuck me, its going to take a while for my ped card to recover from this... :hammer:
 
GeorgeSkywalker said:
Your logic is flawed. Nothing can be ruled out so easily. arkadian dev would mention arkadia as much as possible, it's a form of advertising. For example think about the example he/she chose to give about togolossi and mentioning arkadia for double measure out of any other example they could have given. A monrian dev would most likely give a monrian example and an arkadian dev most likely an ark example.

Also whoever gave this info would have known the possibility of it being shared, especially since sub-zero states they wanted to remain anonymous. Which means they absolutely knew it was going to be shared, at what stage did they know for sure? before the conversation or after? Either way it's most probable they wanted it to be shared and had a conversation with someone most likely to share it i.e. sub-zero. So question is which developer would want to advertise arkadia?

I also wouldn't rule out the initial conversation may even not have been between dev and sub-zero since both names are anonymous in the chat. Yes, sub-zero posted the chat so it's most likely he had the conversation however it's an assumption.

edit: the to and from being anonymous obviously my error. however, point remains cannot be certain of anything
Click to expand...

Holy smokes, that's some analyzing. You're close, but not close enough. :p it doesn't matter if it was from A-Team, or Monria-Team or Calypso-Team or heck even ND himself. What matters is not where it comes from, but the content of the message itself, focus on that, what do you actually think about the conversation, without trying to figure out where it came from.

I believe my source though, but since I can't reveal the source's identity ya will have to make up your own minds about it.

Then again I could be simply be faking the whole chat log thing, and just doing it for kicks.
Your last bit really hit the nail on the spot so to speak.

Like I said, interpret it as you wish, I only wished to share what I learned.

Divinity said:
Interesting conversation there with Sub-Zero. While i dont have anywhere near a credible data set yet, my analysis with warlocks so far says that the conversation is pretty much how i see it as well. Changing dps seems to make more difference now then anytime before via enhancers.

I am sorry have not read the whole thread but am guessing the Anonymous is someone who is not just speculating.
Click to expand...
Divinity, you're really on top of it, since you mostly figured it out with your own data. I merely had it handed to me, without even deserving it. That's just how lucky I am guess. I better buy a lottery ticket or some strongboxes.
 
Yup!!!

Divinity said:
Interesting conversation there with Sub-Zero. While i dont have anywhere near a credible data set yet, my analysis with warlocks so far says that the conversation is pretty much how i see it as well. Changing dps seems to make more difference now then anytime before via enhancers.

I am sorry have not read the whole thread but am guessing the Anonymous is someone who is not just speculating.
Click to expand...

:lolup:

What he said!!
 
Divinity said:
Interesting conversation there with Sub-Zero. While i dont have anywhere near a credible data set yet, my analysis with warlocks so far says that the conversation is pretty much how i see it as well. Changing dps seems to make more difference now then anytime before via enhancers.

I am sorry have not read the whole thread but am guessing the Anonymous is someone who is not just speculating.
Click to expand...

The problem is we probably won't see any credible data set for a long time.
 
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sachi.mk2 said:
The problem is we probably won't see any credible data set for a long time. Takes Girts log, it can swing widely in % from month to month and year to year. The uncertainty and confusion will last a long time in relation to loot 2.0, and that's the reason I think it may have been a mistake.
Click to expand...

Thb i think that smilgs doing better this vu, not a single 3k osse will ever get away from him again.
 
Adding DPS using enhancers can get very expensive with the MU. I am not sure if one can recover the cost given my experiences with the loot for the off chance you have picked the right mob at the right time and the right place and the weapon is right and your armor is right and yada-yada-yada . Had 2 small gbls since the VU and I want to play not keep books:)
 
CozMoDan said:
Adding DPS using enhancers can get very expensive with the MU. I am not sure if one can recover the cost given my experiences with the loot for the off chance you have picked the right mob at the right time and the right place and the weapon is right and your armor is right and yada-yada-yada . Had 2 small gbls since the VU and I want to play not keep books:)
Click to expand...

Frustrated, yesterday I bought dmg enhancers for 10 slots in my mm pistol, and 6 slots in my arso chip and did a long run on aurli lvl 48 through 85 to finish my bronze mission. My "efficiency" is 72.2 plus the arso,mk1 scope, imp ares, xmas '16, X pills, etc. I can down the lvl 48 in ~ 10 shots, I can down the 85 in ~20 shots. I know one run doth not a trend make, but based on that run, and the stingy globals that lead me to global to death, I don't think I would ever make up the cost of the dmg enh mu the way it currently is.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?293780-MA-More-pyrite-and-dianthus-please
 
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Mac said:
Frustrated, yesterday I bought dmg enhancers for 10 slots in my mm pistol, and 6 slots in my arso chip and did a long run on aurli lvl 48 through 85 to finish my bronze mission. My "efficiency" is 72.2 plus the arso, imp ares, xmas '16, X pills, etc. I can down the lvl 48 in ~ 10 shots, I can down the 85 in ~20 shots. I know one run doth not a trend make, but based on that run, and the stingy globals that lead me to global to death, I don't think I would ever make up the cost of the dmg enh mu the way it currently is.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?293780-MA-More-pyrite-and-dianthus-please
Click to expand...

With MM, you never will.
 
Mac said:
Frustrated, yesterday I bought dmg enhancers for 10 slots in my mm pistol, and 6 slots in my arso chip and did a long run on aurli lvl 48 through 85 to finish my bronze mission. My "efficiency" is 72.2 plus the arso, imp ares, xmas '16, X pills, etc. I can down the lvl 48 in ~ 10 shots, I can down the 85 in ~20 shots. I know one run doth not a trend make, but based on that run, and the stingy globals that lead me to global to death, I don't think I would ever make up the cost of the dmg enh mu the way it currently is.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?293780-MA-More-pyrite-and-dianthus-please
Click to expand...

I liked the link good discussion there I thought. One way to down the prices is stop buying them. I know I am not going to risk that amount of money for the off chance I will get something. Lets see who can last the longest us without them or the crafters with them:).

BTW for the mod, no biggie but one day I can click on an icon to the right and it inserts the next day it won't insert. Just saying.
 
atomicstorm said:
With MM, you never will.
Click to expand...

I figured I'd give it a shot. everyone's been talking about scaling dps to mob with dmg enh for "optimal loot", whatever the fuck that means. I thought, ok, let me load up and burn these fuckers down and see if I can trigger some better loots. Apparently I still haven't found the sweet spot. After spending a bunch on ehn and the ammo increase, I still couldn't hit a decent multiplier, all I did was get globals of ped card death, but it did help me finish the mission faster, so there is that... :laugh:
 
CozMoDan said:
Adding DPS using enhancers can get very expensive with the MU. I am not sure if one can recover the cost given my experiences with the loot for the off chance you have picked the right mob at the right time and the right place and the weapon is right and your armor is right and yada-yada-yada . Had 2 small gbls since the VU and I want to play not keep books:)
Click to expand...

Instead of adding damage enhancers a cheaper and more sustainable strategy could be to lower the maturity or mob that your hunting, since it's about matching damage to mob hp.

Also globals are meaningless what matters is loot composition and total loot.
 
GeorgeSkywalker said:
Instead of adding damage enhancers a cheaper and more sustainable strategy could be to lower the maturity or mob that your hunting, since it's about matching damage to mob hp.

Also globals are meaningless what matters is loot composition and total loot.
Click to expand...

Why penalize people who like a challenge and want to hunt bigger mobs? Why shouldn't my loot be optimal for any mob I want to hunt, if I can kill it, I should get any available optimal loot like anyone else. Forcing me to scale down to match mob to dmg or whatever the imaginary formula for sustainable loot is, is a good way to make people like me say fuck this shit and bail. Loot composition and total loot are contained in globals, not sure what your point is.
 
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