Using vehicles to reduce AOE?

2017-07-02 06:53!!!!!!You wrote:


I have had a discussion for over an hour now... would like your input.....

Is it okay to spawn multiple vehicles to reduce the AoE dmg taken by avatars? if so ,,, he who has the most vehicles wins ?

Kind Regards

PostHistory.
2017-07-02 07:05!!!!!!You wrote:


these vehicles are spawned and left empty deliberately.....

to hunt mobs such as Golem and a likes
2017-07-02 07:05!!!!!!You wrote:


Goldem
2017-07-02 22:15!!!!!!Entropia Universe Support:


Hi PostHistory,

Thank you for contacting us.

We will have to look further into this and get back to you.

By the sound of it, we would say that this is a prohibited form of hunting.

However, it will have to be taken up with the management.

Thank you for understanding.

Kind regards,
Hank | Entropia Universe Support

2017-07-03 02:07!!!!!!You wrote:


Thanks Hank

Do you think we could have a FAQ made for this for as to some kind of reference material.... for others to view....

People assume if they can do something in EU, then it must be okay.....

But being here over 10 years I know this not to be the case....

My idea....

Q: Can I use my Vehicle to reduce AoE on my Avatar while actively hunting?
A: <your input>

Q: Can I use my Vehicle to Escape an attacking Mob?
A: <your input>

lots more.... but I think you should get the point.

FAQ's

I will use this section to update a list I could submit to Support so we can create a FAQ?

Please keep this vehicle specific...

If you guys have any you would like added PM me or Post here and I will update the list...


Q: Can I use my Vehicle to reduce AoE on my Avatar while actively hunting?
A: <MA INPUT> or link to support case an

Q: Can I use my Vehicle to Escape an attacking Mob?
A: <MA INPUT> or link to support case answering it...


Q: Can I Collect up a large amount of Mobs using my car to then drop on someone in non PVP?
A: <MA INPUT> or link to support case answering it...

Q: Can I collect up a large amount of mobs using my car to then drop on someone in PVP?
A: <MA INPUT>

Lets add a non-PvE one. Is it within the rules to abuse participants to influence their actions? to what extent?

Seregi said:

Lets add a non-PvE one. Is it within the rules to abuse participants to influence their actions? to what extent?

Click to expand...

OT to what I want to achieve here but.....

Fairly sure its in the EULA, in vague terms not to impact on another players experience,.... but in PVP I'm not sure how that would work as to kill someone in PVP would be impacting on the others experience.

Post_History said:

Q: Can I use my Vehicle to Escape an attacking Mob?
A: <your input>

Click to expand...

oh, this ol topic again...

In my opinion people cheat using vehicles in PVP, in land grabs, in mining, in hunting and also with lurking and lagging others, then with driving mob trains on others and many more.
The day when players will learn how to cheat using vehicles in crafting will be terrible fateful day.
Using vehicles to reduce AOE don't have nothing to do with personal transport and is evident cheat or exploit.

On the other hand you do have to pay decay of the vehicles when used as a AoE shield. While when use it to "VTOL hunt" neither the vehicle nor yourself gets any damage.

Tina Walther said:

On the other hand you do have to pay decay of the vehicles when used as a AoE shield. While when use it to "VTOL hunt" neither the vehicle nor yourself gets any damage.

Click to expand...

Interesting point but look from this angle..... Noob with no skills buys enough vehicles to reduce AoE to below 1.,,,,

Why do we have skills again? Guess no need?

Post_History said:

Interesting point but look from this angle..... Noob with no skills buys enough vehicles to reduce AoE to below 1.,,,,

Why do we have skills again? Guess no need?

Click to expand...

i think if any noob used 4-5 pitbulls to reduce a golem damage to 1, MA wouldn't be too fused, the repair costs would be insane. ofc its getting an advantage, so its borderline imo. just do what everyone else does, hire some young players with refurb faps to heal you and themselves while you go full armored. i went as second shooter with 3 noob fappers and it worked well

Post_History said:

2017-07-02 06:53!!!!!!You wrote:

Q: Can I use my Vehicle to Escape an attacking Mob?
A: <your input>

lots more.... but I think you should get the point.

Click to expand...

to escape a mob, it would be fine, MA even mentioned using a VTOL as a getaway vehicle. its two different things.
if you agro a mob you have no intention to fight i don't see VTOLing away as an issue, you can die and return for virtually free. but if you use the VTOL to shoot the mob and when it gets close hop in, back your VTOL up then shoot again, repeating when needed. that is wrong

Post_History said:

My idea....

Q: Can I use my Vehicle to reduce AoE on my Avatar while actively hunting?
A: <ONE>

Q: Can I use my Vehicle to Escape an attacking Mob?
A: <TWO>

Click to expand...

ONE:
In my opinon this should be ok, as the vehicles suffer decay, good for vehicle crafters if those vehicles get decayed. The bad thing about it: The hunters who actually use bigger armors to stand the hits of those mobs have an disadvantage against those who use the vehicles to catch some AOE dmg, as vehicle decay is a lot less than armor decay.
Sidenote to this: Going there with a team, makes hunting these mobs very easy at fairly low FAP costs for each member, and some even can be killed without wearing armor if team is big enough (example: Hogg Diabolo with 10 people, noone needs armor)

TWO:
Already stated several times by MA that using VTOL in hunting to safe on armor/FAP decay is an exploit
For miners, well those just escape without killing the mob, so its a grey zone, I know many miners do that, have done that myself while mining. Especially in areas with mobs, which I can´t kill anyways due to low damage, skills and HP.
Beside that while mining I often use my VTOL to fly a short range, jump out, drop a probe, jump in and fly a short range. Repeat!

Thats just my opinions and some observations how miners act, final word surely has to be from MA support. As I read this:

Post_History said:

Thank you for contacting us.

We will have to look further into this and get back to you.

By the sound of it, we would say that this is a prohibited form of hunting.

However, it will have to be taken up with the management.

Thank you for understanding.

Kind regards,
Hank | Entropia Universe Support

Click to expand...

Very unlikely that MA will allow this as a hunting tactic, so far no word about escaping mobs while mining.
Waiting for final reply from MA management.

Yea it's annoying if there's too many and it makes the whole place laggy.

Then again, look at the bright side. If someone brings AoE damage down, he brings it down for everyone while he'll be the only one paying the bill in the end. So, there's a guy yelling over the bar "All drinks on me!" What do you say? Cheers buddy, keep it up!

Post_History said:

OT to what I want to achieve here but.....

Fairly sure its in the EULA, in vague terms not to impact on another players experience,.... but in PVP I'm not sure how that would work as to kill someone in PVP would be impacting on the others experience.

Click to expand...

If this was true, they wouldn't have created creature control pills.

Dan59 said:

In my opinion people cheat using vehicles in PVP, in land grabs, in mining, in hunting and also with lurking and lagging others, then with driving mob trains on others and many more.
The day when players will learn how to cheat using vehicles in crafting will be terrible fateful day.
Using vehicles to reduce AOE don't have nothing to do with personal transport and is evident cheat or exploit.

Click to expand...

I have seen you post something about mining before. How do you cheat using a vehicle in mining? I don't see any possible way. Maybe I am missing something. Never has a vehicle increased loot for mining or something of that nature. Or are you referring to something completely different? Miners use Vtol which is what you are supposed to use to mine planet side which must of been a nice QoL (Quality of Life) change that was needed to make the profession better.

Post_History said:

I will use this section to update a list I could submit to Support so we can create a FAQ?

Please keep this vehicle specific...

If you guys have any you would like added PM me or Post here and I will update the list...


Q: Can I use my Vehicle to reduce AoE on my Avatar while actively hunting?
A: <your input>

Q: Can I use my Vehicle to Escape an attacking Mob?
A: <your input>

Click to expand...

For question one don't think that was intended by MA so don't think it's allowed but the question is what impact does it actually have? Unintended things happen all the time and sometimes they end up being better or a side effect like Nova not dropping anymore. MA would have to decide if it's detrimental I have no real great opinion on the matter because I don't think its very efficient so why bother doing it in the first place.

Second question of course you can use a vehicle to escape an attacking mob that is entirely the point of having a vehicle so you don't get eaten. If you are using it to avoid mobs then bravo you are using a vehicle correctly. Not everyone is here in Entropia Universe to hunt. You could play this game for years and never kill a creature. So yes it's perfectly fine to use a vehicle to avoid mobs especially if you have no interest in being a hunter in your Entropia experience.

The Abomb said:

I have seen you post something about mining before. How do you cheat using a vehicle in mining? I don't see any possible way. Maybe I am missing something. Never has a vehicle increased loot for mining or something of that nature. Or are you referring to something completely different? Miners use Vtol which is what you are supposed to use to mine planet side which must of been a nice QoL (Quality of Life) change that was needed to make the profession better.

Click to expand...

to some, using a VTOL to land in a dangerous area to drop a probe and then hop back in, fly 100m and repeat is considered an exploit as you couldn't mine that area without using the VTOL.

myself it doesn't bother me, but it would be an exploit if you used your VTOL to agro and pull mobs away from your claim marker

The Jetman said:

to some, using a VTOL to land in a dangerous area to drop a probe and then hop back in, fly 100m and repeat is considered an exploit as you couldn't mine that area without using the VTOL.

myself it doesn't bother me, but it would be an exploit if you used your VTOL to agro and pull mobs away from your claim marker

Click to expand...

Ahhh I kinda think that is crazy to think using a Vtol in an dangerous area for mining as cheating as that is it's purpose to avoid danger. Like I said some miners don't even have a weapon and have no intention of hunting or killing a creature. They are miners. So using a Vtol to mine effectively is a great thing especially if you don't want to hunt in Entropia. I like to think of this game as a true sandbox and pick what you want to do. So I don't think anyone should have to be a hunter or be able to kill a mob in order to mine. That would be detrimental to mining and that profession.

I don't know how the balance on vehicles vs armor is for decay per dmg, but imo if balanced fairly it is great to have variety in the game, and different ways to approach a problem.

It would be interesting if each creature was a puzzle that required thinking outside the box instead of the hateful 10yr old auto-drones our playerbase is currently.

The Abomb said:

I have seen you post something about mining before. How do you cheat using a vehicle in mining? I don't see any possible way. Maybe I am missing something. Never has a vehicle increased loot for mining or something of that nature. Or are you referring to something completely different? Miners use Vtol which is what you are supposed to use to mine planet side which must of been a nice QoL (Quality of Life) change that was needed to make the profession better.

Click to expand...

Any noob with VTOL now can go mining in places witch were supposed to be hard accessible.
For skilled miners and with full hunting gear apart mining gear and mining skills.
In that way used to be almost 10 years.
Miners had hard life also for weight.
Because of ammo weight many miners preferred melee weapons for personal defense.
One could use decoys but dispenser have weight too.
Miner was supposed to be able to defend himself and ofc to pay armor, fap and weapon decay.

Changes:

-MA changed ammo to not have any weight.
-Ma issued armors specially for miners. (its in info description)
-MA raised weight one avatar can have plus added possibility to raise it even more by getting strength.
-MA also added summon function to be able to call found mining resource out of dangerous area to extract it in peace.
-MA also lowered weight of some resources too.
-MA did all this changes without VTOL in mind


Mining with VTOL is same as hunting with VTOL as VTOL do not decay and mobs stop being agro once player jump in.
In both cases is way to save health, armor decay, ammo, healing tool and weapon decay.
So miner cheat same as hunter and plus once on safe place can send vtol and all resources to storage to get rid of his weight.
Vtol mining in places dedicated for hunting cause lag to hunters too.

Dan59 said:

Any noob with VTOL now can go mining in places witch were supposed to be hard accessible.
For skilled miners and with full hunting gear apart mining gear and mining skills.
In that way used to be almost 10 years.
Miners had hard life also for weight.
Because of ammo weight many miners preferred melee weapons for personal defense.
One could use decoys but dispenser have weight too.
Miner was supposed to be able to defend himself and ofc to pay armor, fap and weapon decay.

Changes:

-MA changed ammo to not have any weight.
-Ma issued armors specially for miners. (its in info description)
-MA raised weight one avatar can have plus added possibility to raise it even more by getting strength.
-MA also added summon function to be able to call found mining resource out of dangerous area to extract it in peace.
-MA also lowered weight of some resources too.
-MA did all this changes without VTOL in mind


Mining with VTOL is same as hunting with VTOL as VTOL do not decay and mobs stop being agro once player jump in.
In both cases is way to save health, armor decay, ammo, healing tool and weapon decay.
So miner cheat same as hunter and plus once on safe place can send vtol and all resources to storage to get rid of his weight.
Vtol mining in places dedicated for hunting cause lag to hunters too.

Click to expand...

If I had to mine circa 2006 in the style described above, I just wouldn't be playing EU to be honest. There's a good reason things are the way they are now.

Dan59 said:

Any noob with VTOL now can go mining in places witch were supposed to be hard accessible.
For skilled miners and with full hunting gear apart mining gear and mining skills.
In that way used to be almost 10 years.
Miners had hard life also for weight.
Because of ammo weight many miners preferred melee weapons for personal defense.
One could use decoys but dispenser have weight too.
Miner was supposed to be able to defend himself and ofc to pay armor, fap and weapon decay.

Changes:

-MA changed ammo to not have any weight.
-Ma issued armors specially for miners. (its in info description)
-MA raised weight one avatar can have plus added possibility to raise it even more by getting strength.
-MA also added summon function to be able to call found mining resource out of dangerous area to extract it in peace.
-MA also lowered weight of some resources too.
-MA did all this changes without VTOL in mind


Mining with VTOL is same as hunting with VTOL as VTOL do not decay and mobs stop being agro once player jump in.
In both cases is way to save health, armor decay, ammo, healing tool and weapon decay.
So miner cheat same as hunter and plus once on safe place can send vtol and all resources to storage to get rid of his weight.
Vtol mining in places dedicated for hunting cause lag to hunters too.

Click to expand...

Well thanks for you response and feedback. However it's 2017 and seems like they made many great Quality of life changes which includes VTOL. I know looking through the rose tinted glasses of old days in Project Entropia long before i even know of this game is nostalgic for you. However the game needs to change and more importantly make changes to make the game fun and bring new players as well.

When learning mining and watching Pigbenis mine he uses a Vtol all the time which is what every miner should use. It's supposed to be convenient to mine not a hassle. Game should be fun remember and the old ways of mining that requiring grinding in hunting isn't good for game play or enjoyable which is why its gone.

Like I said a miner should be able to mine and never have to think of killing a creature if he doesn't want to. Hunting is only a small part of the game and you don't have to partake in it and using a Vtol is a great way to avoid something you don't want to do.

Sometimes I just want to mine even though I skill melee extensively and other professions. So I will use a Vtol because it's fun and relaxing and when I am mining I don't want to hunt. There is nothing wrong with it and I encourage all miners to buy a Vtol because you should be using one. If you use it to avoid a mob then you are using it correctly. I mean why should we have to fight every mob we come across? Have I had a mining HOF in an area where I couldn't kill the mobs sure Is that wrong? Of course not. I had no intention of hunting I was mining. Guess what though I did hire a Uber to body guard me from the mobs while i drilled it out. So someone did get some work that day. Looks like a win win to me.

Of course I respect your views but at the end of the day the game will change because times change. Entropia is a business and all businesses must keep up with the times. I don't think any miner should need to have some awful burden like they used too in this game. No one would mine or join entropia to mine if it was still like that and you couldn't use Vtol. Not today. If they put any archaic system for mining in place to make the game less fun I would chip out and part ways. The fact is this game must keep changing and changing for the better to bring in more players and of course make the game more fun. The days of Project Entropia sound awful to me and if that game was around today it would fail miserably. It's dated just like all games of that era. Don't get me wrong though I look through my own rose tinted glass of games i loved back then too. I just realize that time doesn't exist anymore.

If MA considers it abuse, they usually put no vehicle zone. Until then, you have two options. Abuse and eventually get locked/banned. Or don't abuse (the simplest and safest route).

AOE dmg from creatures should never hit vehicles imo. If they can't fix it, they will probably go the lazy route and put no vehicle zone.

And on a side note:

Why does a golem have to hit soo damn hard that you have to use vehicles just to be able to kill one?
If the golem is only an uber mob, why include it in a quest that is not for an uber item?
If the golem is only a team mob, why make a quest for a single player to kill x amount of golems?

I am not disagreeing that using vehicles to avoid the area damage is a bad thing, but merely looking at other things that lead to the use of vehicles.

Dan59 said:

Any noob with VTOL now can go mining in places witch were supposed to be hard accessible.
For skilled miners and with full hunting gear apart mining gear and mining skills.
In that way used to be almost 10 years.
Miners had hard life also for weight.
Because of ammo weight many miners preferred melee weapons for personal defense.
One could use decoys but dispenser have weight too.
Miner was supposed to be able to defend himself and ofc to pay armor, fap and weapon decay.

Changes:

-MA changed ammo to not have any weight.
-Ma issued armors specially for miners. (its in info description)
-MA raised weight one avatar can have plus added possibility to raise it even more by getting strength.
-MA also added summon function to be able to call found mining resource out of dangerous area to extract it in peace.
-MA also lowered weight of some resources too.
-MA did all this changes without VTOL in mind


Mining with VTOL is same as hunting with VTOL as VTOL do not decay and mobs stop being agro once player jump in.
In both cases is way to save health, armor decay, ammo, healing tool and weapon decay.
So miner cheat same as hunter and plus once on safe place can send vtol and all resources to storage to get rid of his weight.
Vtol mining in places dedicated for hunting cause lag to hunters too.

Click to expand...

This +rep
More perpouse too skill and have gear in the past, Think thats why we got another economy back then as well

Dan59 said:

Mining with VTOL is same as hunting with VTOL as VTOL do not decay and mobs stop being agro once player jump in.
In both cases is way to save health, armor decay, ammo, healing tool and weapon decay.
So miner cheat same as hunter and plus once on safe place can send vtol and all resources to storage to get rid of his weight.
Vtol mining in places dedicated for hunting cause lag to hunters too.

Click to expand...

Thats some valid points here.

Easy solution:
Let mobs attack VTOLs and Quads the same way as ground vehicles.
Still don´t get it why mobs don´t attack flying vehicles, especially those mobs that have range attack (robots) or can fly (Aetherix, Hyriiu).

If I would be in MAs management, all vehicles would be attackable by mobs.

GoNi said:

Thats some valid points here.

Easy solution:
Let mobs attack VTOLs and Quads the same way as ground vehicles.
Still don´t get it why mobs don´t attack flying vehicles, especially those mobs that have range attack (robots) or can fly (Aetherix, Hyriiu).

If I would be in MAs management, all vehicles would be attackable by mobs.

Click to expand...

Easy solution is leaving it the way it is so players can escape mobs if they don't want to fight them.

Post_History said:

Interesting point but look from this angle..... Noob with no skills buys enough vehicles to reduce AoE to below 1.,,,,

Why do we have skills again? Guess no need?

Click to expand...

Uhm... if they want to pay for that....

The Jetman said:

to some, using a VTOL to land in a dangerous area to drop a probe and then hop back in, fly 100m and repeat is considered an exploit as you couldn't mine that area without using the VTOL.

myself it doesn't bother me, but it would be an exploit if you used your VTOL to agro and pull mobs away from your claim marker

Click to expand...

what ? thats insane to call it cheating.

GoNi said:

Thats some valid points here.

Easy solution:
Let mobs attack VTOLs and Quads the same way as ground vehicles.
Still don´t get it why mobs don´t attack flying vehicles, especially those mobs that have range attack (robots) or can fly (Aetherix, Hyriiu).

If I would be in MAs management, all vehicles would be attackable by mobs.

Click to expand...

I suspect the main issue is mob trains, even by accident as high agro would chase passingby VTOL

crazyqpp said:

what ? thats insane to call it cheating.

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i would feel that pulling mobs away from your marker then jumping in VTOL flying away some more, luring away again, repeating until safe before you go and extract is pretty much the same as VTOL hunting. i've even seen some hop out extract hop back in, hop out extract... until finished

The Jetman said:

i would feel that pulling mobs away from your marker then jumping in VTOL flying away some more, luring away again, repeating until safe before you go and extract is pretty much the same as VTOL hunting. i've even seen some hop out extract hop back in, hop out extract... until finished

Click to expand...

Again smart use of a Vtol for a miner and how it could be used as intended.

I ask again why does a miner need to waste PED hunting in order to mine or get a claim? Miners shouldn't have to kill mobs at all and a Vtol has been a great implementation of achieving that. There are some top miners out there that don't hunt at all. I mean there are lvl 50 + miner and don't have higher then a bukins for a weapon. They just want to mine and have nothing to do with hunting except maybe some casual puny killing.

People play this game for different reasons and mining is definitely it's own profession that you need a very high PED card to play. Making a miner have to kill mobs to mine isn't good for the game and never should of been intended and that is why we have Vtol's now.

Don't think anyone should be forced to hunt if they don't want to do that profession. Let miners mine and hunter hunt. If you enjoy cross skilling like me I will do both however when I am mining don't expect me to kill mobs they are just in the way and my Vtol is every miners best friend.

However since this thread is in the HUNTING section. Seems like this is a HUNTING issue and it's impossible to cheat using a Vtol while mining.

The Abomb said:

... Miners shouldn't have to kill mobs at all ...

Click to expand...

what