Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

Is it useless now to use lesser armors after introducing DEFLECTED hits?

P

Pratahn

Guardian
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Posts
257
Being a new player I had Adj Pixie for lower lvl mobs and Viceroy for higher level mobs. But now with DEFLECTED hits the armor get much less decay, and Viceroy often gets DEFLECTED where Adj Pixie pass through some damage. So is it now still worth to use the lesser armor when possible?
 
DEFLECTED just means the armor took all of the damage, which it never did before.

The decay is less because the armor is only decaying for the damage it's actually taking, where it did something different before.

It will be cheaper to wear both sets of armor than it was before, so if you want to stick with the heavier armor, it will cost less than it did before, but still more than the weaker one.

You will still pay more for the increased protection of the heavier armor vs the lighter armor, so how much armor you want to wear still depends on how much protection you want to pay for vs. just regenerating your HP.
 
Atrax said:
DEFLECTED just means the armor took all of the damage, which it never did before.

The decay is less because the armor is only decaying for the damage it's actually taking, where it did something different before.

It will be cheaper to wear both sets of armor than it was before, so if you want to stick with the heavier armor, it will cost less than it did before, but still more than the weaker one.

You will still pay more for the increased protection of the heavier armor vs the lighter armor, so how much armor you want to wear still depends on how much protection you want to pay for vs. just regenerating your HP.
Click to expand...

Just to avoid confusion. You mean stronger and weaker armors, not anything to do with armor weight
 
Nowadays its cheaper to armour up as much as possible unless you have a fap with over 25 heal/pec or want to use regen for free.
 
I heard around 20 hpp armor covers now,so any healing fap below this is now obsolete?
 
Hypnotyk said:
Just to avoid confusion. You mean stronger and weaker armors, not anything to do with armor weight
Click to expand...

yes speaking in terms of protection not actual weight
 
wasnt there a test done where pretty much all armors had about the same cost per damage +-1-2%? that would mean it might be the best to wear the biggest armor you got as long as u dont need to heal at all. overprotetion is a thing of the past and doesnt exist anymore
 
Ideal is to protect just enough that you're always missing a bit of health so that you're making use of your passive regen, but if you can't reach that sweet spot and don't have a healing tool above 20HPP you should just use your biggest armor set, yeah.

Eco does vary between armor sets but not by a huge amount in most cases, apart from some of the armor sets having those buffs which aren't too shabby if you aren't wearing an athenic.
 
Me Really Never said:
wasnt there a test done where pretty much all armors had about the same cost per damage +-1-2%? that would mean it might be the best to wear the biggest armor you got as long as u dont need to heal at all. overprotetion is a thing of the past and doesnt exist anymore
Click to expand...

Why should it be that way ???

Different durability different costs!

If higher durability lost its value, then something is really wrong
 
GoNi said:
Why should it be that way ???

Different durability different costs!

If higher durability lost its value, then something is really wrong
Click to expand...

higher durability could just mean that at higher damaged absorbed it wont decay more than lower damage absorbed with lower durability.
for example 10 damage absorbed at 1000 durability might be the same as 20 damage absorbed with 2000 durability in terms of damage absorbed per pec.
would need a high protective armor with low durability or a low protective armor with high durability to test this. unfortunately i got neither.
someone posted the link to the thread with actual numbers above me, so feel free to see for yourself
 
use lower level armor and plates.... when talking about armor never forget to work plates in to the discussion since some folks tend to forget to use em.

I suspect that it's better to overprotect with loot 2.0 than before since it means you may get some of the armor decay back in loot... not sure if that's really the case, but seems to be so. I have a suspicion that with loot 2.0 overprotection is better than fapping because of this, but not sure if that is true or just another crakpot theory brewing in the back of my brain.

Wonder if decay on armor or decay on fap 'pays more' back in loot returns?

-----------
https://account.entropiauniverse.com/news/pages/2017/10/24/0387/index.xml?
Clarification for terminology:
Miss is when there isn’t enough skill to hit the target
Evade is when the target avoids damage from a melee attack
Dodge is when the target avoids damage from a ranged attack
Jamming is when the target avoids damage from a mindforce attack
Deflect is when the target absorbs all damage due to armor
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
glennbuck said:
I heard around 20 hpp armor covers now,so any healing fap below this is now obsolete?
Click to expand...

There is a practical limit; the price and availibility of really good armors.

I mean, if you want to hunt spiders and you want a set of Sentinel you're in for a long wait, and a long time saving up cash for it. Same thing applies to (L) armors if you would consider a set of Infiltrator to hunt Falx or SEGs.

For beginners, Pixie armor sets has a good feature: The low TT-value. The low TT value means that if you do something silly (like getting swarmed by Atrax) your armor repair bill will be limited.
 
aia said:
For beginners, Pixie armor sets has a good feature: The low TT-value. The low TT value means that if you do something silly (like getting swarmed by Atrax) your armor repair bill will be limited.
Click to expand...

What I mean will be the plates decay much more then the adj pixie armor (with 50/50 chance to hit wither of them)?
 
Pratahn said:
What I mean will be the plates decay much more then the adj pixie armor (with 50/50 chance to hit wither of them)?
Click to expand...

They will spread the damage, and extend the useful life of the armor.

Plates used to be cheaper to repair (dmg/pec) than most armor I believe, but even if they're the same cost, they offer flat protection AFAIK and take damage off of the armor.

It won't take too long of hunting for your pixie to get down to say, 75% and you will be feeling the loss of protection if you are hunting near your capabilities. with plates on and random plate/armor selection it will take approximately 2x as long for you to come to this level, at a comparable or slightly reduced repair cost.

Until professional requirements for armor are implemented, all players continue to receive this benefit from plates.

After the requirements are changed, this will vary for some. However the plates will continue to provide extended time in the field for all players.

EDIT: also no one is mentioning/testing the sharing of damage between armor and plates when the DMG delivered is over the capacity of the armor involved.

Again, as far as I know, they should be sharing damage in this case. if your armor has 12 imp and your plate has 9 and something hits you with 25 imp you should see roughly 4 DMG (if protection is successful) to the avatar, right? That's like, the whole original purpose of the thing.

All this min/max eco fear ...
 
If I am getting deflected, I will always pop into a lower armor where I take some damage, and thus need to heal. For one, the skills, for two the healing done/taken damage is now supposedly a factor in loot.
 
Me Really Never said:
wasnt there a test done where pretty much all armors had about the same cost per damage +-1-2%? that would mean it might be the best to wear the biggest armor you got as long as u dont need to heal at all. overprotetion is a thing of the past and doesnt exist anymore
Click to expand...

Just from basic extrapolation, the math would indicate that 1,300 points of Durability would equal a 1% savings on decay.

So if Vindicator is used (800 Durability), instead of Viceroy (3000 Durability), the difference would equal an increase of 1.7% in the costs to armor decay.

The biggest savings by far is when switching to a Limited armor with 10,000 more points in Durability. That option represents a savings of approximately 7.7% in armor decay costs.

Legends
 
forgo said:
If I am getting deflected, I will always pop into a lower armor where I take some damage, and thus need to heal. For one, the skills, for two the healing done/taken damage is now supposedly a factor in loot.
Click to expand...

This may be true if you heal during the kill itself, but when healing between kills how it will be included in the loot when there is no loot at all?
 
Pratahn said:
This may be true if you heal during the kill itself, but when healing between kills how it will be included in the loot when there is no loot at all?
Click to expand...

thats exactly my thought. i mean lets assume there are 5 mobs attacking you. your armor absorbs damage on a hit. there is a direct correlation between damage unflicting mob and armor decay. that way it can be returned (partly) in loot. but when you heal, how should the system know, to what mob it should assign the healing decay?
my guess is that either healing is wasted completely, or that the healing decay / cost is returned (partly) via the double shrapnel loot pool
 
Well for a casual player yes, just buy the biggest cheapest armor you can afford add plates and never look back. If you're keeping a log of every pec, multiple sets might pay off :) the difference won't be big though.
 
Me Really Never said:
thats exactly my thought. i mean lets assume there are 5 mobs attacking you. your armor absorbs damage on a hit. there is a direct correlation between damage unflicting mob and armor decay. that way it can be returned (partly) in loot. but when you heal, how should the system know, to what mob it should assign the healing decay?
my guess is that either healing is wasted completely, or that the healing decay / cost is returned (partly) via the double shrapnel loot pool
Click to expand...

I think Healing is accounted for, but only when used in combat, otherwise your PEDs are just vanishing, maybe into a loot pool of some sort, maybe into Ulf's wallet, who knows.
 
For Every 1000 ped cycled, my armor Decay is typically around 16-25 peds. I sold my higher end and lower end armors and will do all mobs in stolen imperium.
Stolen imperium or (adj/imp/mod) viceroy is all you need these days ( and a Nice mod EK fap or the adj regen).
 
UL supremacy + 8a sga plates were decaying about 10-15 ped an hour on old Fred no matter if big team or small team. In that same hour I can easily cycle over 2k ped of ammo with buffs running. If that's any help.
 
Did a quick test - 20 bery stalkers and prowlers killed (evader 21):
Adj Pixie + Mark 5b = 0,29 PED decay
Viceroy + Mark 5b = 0,55 PED decay
The test conditions weren't perfect but still looks like significant difference in favor of lesser armor+suitable plates. Of course there was little bit more healing with the lesser (understand cheaper) armor, but if the combo lesser armor + plates gives too low protection the healing expenses will overcome the armor decay difference.
 
Last edited:
deflecting armour or heal+small armour?

The answer for most players: it's all the same.

Yes, using armour that deflects all damage is cheaper than hunting, say naked + using a fap, BUT since you get returned a % of decay in any case (be it synthetic ME, armour decay or fap decay), it doesn't matter much how you set it up (compared to pre 2.0 where it mattered a LOT).


Sure, if you want to have the lowest possible cost per kill to make your peds last longer, you should probably choose a combo of a healing ring and armour that soakes up most, but not all of the damage done. This way you will be taking full advantage of your regen.

It is however (imho) a bit fiddly to run around with 5-10 different armour sets that are tailored for a single mob each, so better overprotect, take that 0.5% extra turnover and turn it into loot than tieing up peds in lots of armours.
 
Please allow me to quote myself from here:

cost per absorbed damage point is directly and only related to durability of armor or plate.
so the higher your armor's durability, the cheaper the absorbed damage point. armor decay cost is around ~20 DMG/pec.
(L) armors are more economical than their (UL) variant, if their MarkUp is below 105%.

if you compare Pioneer (500 Durability) to Shadow (5000 Durability):

- the Pioneer's absolute repair bill will be lower than Shadow's, because it absorbs much less damage.
- the relative cost per absorbed damage point will be higher than Shadow's.

- the Shadow's absolute repair bill will be higher than Pioneer's, because it absorbs much more damage.
- the relative cost per absorbed damage point will be lower than Pioneer's.


- FAPs with 20 HP heal/pec are as good as armor.
- FAPs with more than 20 HP heal/pec are cheaper to use than absorbing damage with armor.
- if your FAP is worse than this, definately use your armor!
Click to expand...
 
Darkaruki said:
I think Healing is accounted for, but only when used in combat, otherwise your PEDs are just vanishing, maybe into a loot pool of some sort, maybe into Ulf's wallet, who knows.
Click to expand...

I thought that armor decay would be just as mysterious. Even just a little bit of controlled testing has changed my mind.

Armor damage equals loot. Multipliers apply.

A few simple checks taking only armor damage have shown me that armor decay is compensated very directly.

That's a link to the post with pics and first round of conclusion.

I still plan to do several runs with no healing tool or weapon because one hunting run and a couple of one-off events don't reliably say that payback will always correlate so closely in TT, as you can see I got a 1 PED + multi during that run to come out in TT profit on my armor alone.

I have very little doubt left that you will be wasting PED with armor. I expect that armor decay is counted (nearly) pec for pec as TT input for the loot event. Returns are then subject to similar or the same modifiers as ammo used. MA may be taking a percentage for decay but it's small and would take an awfully lot of data to nail down.

Heaviest (most protective) armor = max TT input available to loot event. Of course, anything too heavy for the mob to bite through should do just fine.

The only possible reason I can see to not armor up is that it blocks skills. I have enough sets of armor that sometimes I want to look different, or match to a mob out of habit. But saving money on armor costs is like, not even a thing for me any more.
 
Pratahn said:
Did a quick test - 20 bery stalkers and prowlers killed (evader 21):
Adj Pixie + Mark 5b = 0,29 PED decay
Viceroy + Mark 5b = 0,55 PED decay
The test conditions weren't perfect but still looks like significant difference in favor of lesser armor+suitable plates. Of course there was little bit more healing with the lesser (understand cheaper) armor, but if the combo lesser armor + plates gives too low protection the healing expenses will overcome the armor decay difference.
Click to expand...

It also depends on your FAP.

If you have a very efficent FAP, the healing cost can be lower than the armor decay from overprotection.

I always avoid wearing armor that gives full deflection.

Reasons:

Take advantage of natural regen
Take advantage of ring, increased regeneration
Occationally heal (very efficent 60 HP/pec) to gain skill, while armor does not give skills.

For hunters who own Resto chips, especially the mod ones which are extremly efficent, it does not make any sense to overprotect.

Well thats just me, others may think different :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top